Hardest job in America

[DAG 33,998]

5 hours ago, tbone4jc said:

Clemson would not go undefeted in the SEC. Uat has done it what, 1 time?  Y'all are spoiled. Gus has brought Auburn to hights that even Coach Pat Dye didn't achieve. 2 national championship games, winning 1. 

 I would love to be consistantly competing to be in the playoffs Look, we were one win away from the playoffs in 2016.  We play in the toughest conference in the world, our recruiting (other than oline) has never been better. I am optimistic about the future. New season, new hope. Lets have some fun people, life is to short to be so stressed out about kids playing a game, no matter how addicting it is!! War Eagle! IGTBAAT ALWAYS!

So you think last year’s Clemson team would’ve loss against anyone on Bama’s schedule? 

We were one win away from the playoffs in 2016? You don’t even know what you are talking about? If you mean 2017 that’s true (ending up losing two straight) and then the next year we were back to losing to the likes of Tennessee and Mississippi State. Get real. The inconsistency needs to stop. We should be consistency competing to be in the playoffs. 

And I am no Gus basher either. I am one of the few who gives the man the benefit of a doubt and got killed over it. But what I am not going to do is feel sorry for him or Auburn. I am not going to gloss over the inconsistency and I am going to hold him accountable based on the contract he is earning and the support he is getting. 

Like I said I love discussions like this. I actually have time today so later one I think I am going to break down Auburn schedule since 2013 with Gus being HC and see how accurate the challenge is for Gus to compete consistently at a high level. Since the challenge it so unfair and hard I really want to take a look as to why we can’t have a consistent 9 win team (this is where I think we should be based on our talent, resources, etc).

[aujeff11 6,243]

7 hours ago, DAG said:

Or they would probably go 14-0. 

Based on two playoff games?  I’m fairly confident they would’nt go 14-0 with our schedule.

7 hours ago, DAG said:

And I don’t go off who is top ten at one point of time. I need to see the complete body work. There are plenty of teams (Auburn) who are top ten at one point of time only to fall off at the end of the season. 

I do. It tells me if we are getting up to play against perceived elite competition. Such as Oregon. They are supposed to be pretty good, so we need to get up for it.

The rankings may fall down the line over injuries and other things and that doesn’t concern me.

[DAG 33,998]

10 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Based on two playoff games?  I’m fairly confident they would’nt go 14-0 with our schedule.

I do. It tells me if we are getting up to play against perceived elite competition. Such as Oregon. They are supposed to be pretty good, so we need to get up for it.

The rankings may fall down the line over injuries and other things and that doesn’t concern me.

Based on their whole body of work. You can be fairly confident if you want , but what I will say is they have won 2 out of the last 4 national championships and beat the BIG dog to do it. Last year they went undefeated ( had some close games) and annihilated both playoff teams. Sorry , I am going to give a team like that the benefit of a doubt that they  would go undefeated with our schedule.   

So if they can get up for Washington then how come they can’t  get up for Tennessee ? Or Mississippi State? It’s one thing to lose to Bama and UGA of LAST YEAR. It’s another thing to be losing to teams you should find a way to win against . I don’t care if it is by 1 point or 100. Like I said I am going to break down this challenging schedule year by year and hear why we cant at least win consistently 9 games a year. You already threw up injuries so I already know that is going’s to be an argument .

[Mikey 16,645]

21 hours ago, AUDevil said:

That's not what you were saying though...you're presenting our situation as though our past dictates our future.

If that's what you got out of my posts, we have a failure to communicate. I specifically said that those claiming that our present situation doesn't measure up to our past are incorrect and they are. Our past is very much the same as the present.

I didn't say or imply that we limited by the accomplishments of prior seasons. I do say that to reach the levels we all would like, we will have to consistently be at a level seldom accomplished in the past. That doesn't mean it can't be done.

[aujeff11 6,243]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

So if they can get up for Washington then how come they can’t  get up for Tennessee ? Or Mississippi State? It’s one thing to lose to Bama and UGA of LAST YEAR. It’s another thing to be losing to teams you should find a way to win against .

Well it would be nice if we could beat Tennessee and State. State was a top two defense with three defensive first round draft picks. so it wasn’t a bad loss at all. I don’t think you see that Clemson avoids the strain of yearly playing against a Washington/Oregon, LSU, Mississippi State, A&M, Georgia, and Bama schedule which could cause weekly performances to slip.

Players could be nursing their battle wounds from taking down a giant that wouldn’t go down until the last whistle. They may not even be able to practice on a Wednesday practice dedicated for gameplanning, but have to be able to tackle a whole other monster in just a few more days. 

We play Oregon, then a couple scrubs, and then it is a balls to the wall grind to the finish. We play A&M, then State, then Florida, then Arkansas, then LSU, then Ole Miss.....Finally a bye. Then we head into Amen Corner again. That is playing 7 games against teams that mostly recruit well and have strong lines, and also have football aspirations of their own. The rest of the season is showing the other teams their place. 

Players get injured all the time no matter the competition, but you have to admit that it takes a different kind of physicality against LSU or Georgia than what is required to put the weaker teams down. Our slobber knockers against LSU under Tuberville used to cause the injury report to swell up like a broke leg. 

[Mikey 16,645]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

Based on their whole body of work. You can be fairly confident if you want , but what I will say is they have won 2 out of the last 4 national championships and beat the BIG dog to do it. Last year they went undefeated ( had some close games) and annihilated both playoff teams. Sorry , I am going to give a team like that the benefit of a doubt that they  would go undefeated with our schedule.   

So if they can get up for Washington then how come they can’t  get up for Tennessee ? Or Mississippi State? It’s one thing to lose to Bama and UGA of LAST YEAR. It’s another thing to be losing to teams you should find a way to win against . I don’t care if it is by 1 point or 100. Like I said I am going to break down this challenging schedule year by year and hear why we cant at least win consistently 9 games a year. You already threw up injuries so I already know that is going’s to be an argument .

I think the point is that Clemson is not subjected to the week in, week out pounding that comes with life in the SEC. It's not so hard to get entirely ready for four or five games a year. Being handed a conference schedule that contains eight teams that can beat you if you're not sharp is a different set of problems.

All those years ago, Bobby Bowden had his choice of the SEC or ACC.  He chose the ACC because he'd have one or two big conference games a year, not eight.

[weagl1 1,785]

This thing was screwed up in 2012 when Chiz was run off.  Kirby Smart was right there for the taking.  Our leadership didn’t even seriously consider him because he wouldn’t immediately bail out on his team (Bammer) that was playing for the national championship.  Jay Jacobs was under so much pressure because of all the other stupid crap he had done that he was scared to make a selection so he came up with the committee approach.  Meanwhile, Pat Dye was saying go get Kirby, go get Kirby, go get Kirby, but no one was listening to him because the prevailing view was that the game had passed him by.  After all, he was an “old school” defensive guy and Gus was the “guru” and offensive genius whose offense couldn’t be stopped.  Now here we are 7 years down the road.  Kirby is out recruiting Gus at every turn and has his team right up there with Bammer.  The defensive coordinators in the SEC have long since figured out the “guru” and put his offense in the ditch.  The Georgia roster is just as stocked with 5* players as the Bammer roster and it’s just a matter of time till they close the deal.

 Now, all of the above having been said,  Kirby may well have jumped ship on Auburn when Richt was run off from Georgia but he also might have been so invested in Auburn by then that he would have stayed.  Dye did.  

[DAG 33,998]

11 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Well it would be nice if we could beat Tennessee and State. State was a top two defense with three defensive first round draft picks. so it wasn’t a bad loss at all. I don’t think you see that Clemson avoids the strain of yearly playing against a Washington/Oregon, LSU, Mississippi State, A&M, Georgia, and Bama schedule which could cause weekly performances to slip.

Players could be nursing their battle wounds from taking down a giant that wouldn’t go down until the last whistle. They may not even be able to practice on a Wednesday practice dedicated for gameplanning, but have to be able to tackle a whole other monster in just a few more days. 

We play Oregon, then a couple scrubs, and then it is a balls to the wall grind to the finish. We play A&M, then State, then Florida, then Arkansas, then LSU, then Ole Miss.....Finally a bye. Then we head into Amen Corner again. That is playing 7 games against teams that mostly recruit well and have strong lines, and also have football aspirations of their own. The rest of the season is showing the other teams their place. 

Players get injured all the time no matter the competition, but you have to admit that it takes a different kind of physicality against LSU or Georgia than what is required to put the weaker teams down. Our slobber knockers against LSU under Tuberville used to cause the injury report to swell up like a broke leg. 

I agree with all of this 

[auskip07 930]

It is the hardest schedule in the SEC.   Im usually quiet if we beat the people we are suppose to beat.  other teams that arnt "givens" the upper tier of the SEC we play well enough to have a chance to win.   Its not Championship or bust   there is alot of luck involved winning championship games.    I would like to think thats a reasonable stance. 

[DAG 33,998]

5 minutes ago, Mikey said:

I think the point is that Clemson is not subjected to the week in, week out pounding that comes with life in the SEC. It's not so hard to get entirely ready for four or five games a year. Being handed a conference schedule that contains eight teams that can beat you if you're not sharp is a different set of problems.

All those years ago, Bobby Bowden had his choice of the SEC or ACC.  He chose the ACC because he'd have one or two big conference games a year, not eight.

I agree. I am just saying I think last year’s Clemson team could withstand the ins and outs of it. Not every year of course. But that is neither here nor there. I want to keep this about Gus and the challenges to consistently win 9 games , which I think , most auburn fans would be happy with. 

[GwillMac6 20,692]

10 minutes ago, Mikey said:

I think the point is that Clemson is not subjected to the week in, week out pounding that comes with life in the SEC. It's not so hard to get entirely ready for four or five games a year. Being handed a conference schedule that contains eight teams that can beat you if you're not sharp is a different set of problems.

All those years ago, Bobby Bowden had his choice of the SEC or ACC.  He chose the ACC because he'd have one or two big conference games a year, not eight.

Would you show Clemson some more respect please. I think they get the benefit of the doubt of 2 natties in 4 years and 3 National Title Appearances in 4 years and the 1 year they did not make the Champ game they still made the playoffs.  Bama (who I compare Clem too) is subjected to the week to week pounding that comes with life in the SEC and they still beat the hell out of almost every SEC team each season. Clemson absolutely annihilated them. Clemson with their elite QB, WR and DL play would do just fine in the SEC. 

[Mikey 16,645]

12 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

Would you show Clemson some more respect please. I think they get the benefit of the doubt of 2 natties in 4 years and 3 National Title Appearances in 4 years and the 1 year they did not make the Champ game they still made the playoffs.  Bama (who I compare Clem too) is subjected to the week to week pounding that comes with life in the SEC and they still beat the hell out of almost every SEC team each season. Clemson absolutely annihilated them. Clemson with their elite QB, WR and DL play would do just fine in the SEC. 

They would do just fine, but they would not be the big frog in the pond so they'd take their lumps. A game like their 2017 Syracuse game would be a threat to them every week of conference play. The ACC is not that way.

PS: Isn't one of their favorite recruiting pitches "If you come to Clemson, you won't be subjected to the weekly pounding you'll suffer in the SEC?" I've seen that stated on the recruiting forum.

[abw0004 10,125]

27 minutes ago, weagl1 said:

This thing was screwed up in 2012 when Chiz was run off.  Kirby Smart was right there for the taking.  Our leadership didn’t even seriously consider him because he wouldn’t immediately bail out on his team (Bammer) that was playing for the national championship.  Jay Jacobs was under so much pressure because of all the other stupid crap he had done that he was scared to make a selection so he came up with the committee approach.  Meanwhile, Pat Dye was saying go get Kirby, go get Kirby, go get Kirby, but no one was listening to him because the prevailing view was that the game had passed him by.  After all, he was an “old school” defensive guy and Gus was the “guru” and offensive genius whose offense couldn’t be stopped.  Now here we are 7 years down the road.  Kirby is out recruiting Gus at every turn and has his team right up there with Bammer.  The defensive coordinators in the SEC have long since figured out the “guru” and put his offense in the ditch.  The Georgia roster is just as stocked with 5* players as the Bammer roster and it’s just a matter of time till they close the deal.

 Now, all of the above having been said,  Kirby may well have jumped ship on Auburn when Richt was run off from Georgia but he also might have been so invested in Auburn by then that he would have stayed.  Dye did.  

That isn't what happened.  We interviewed Kirby and Kirby had way too many demands of Auburn.  When we tried to counter he wasn't having it.  We had no choice but to move on.

[GwillMac6 20,692]

Just now, Mikey said:

They would do just fine, but they would not be the big frog in the pond so they'd take their lumps. A game like their 2017 Syracuse game would be a threat to them every week of conference play. The ACC is not that way.

I actually think games like that, The close call again vs Cuse this past year, The Pitt game that they lost the year of their first natty at home and the NC State game where they got lucky and won because NC State missed a field goal would happen less frequently if they were in the SEC.  They would get up for every game in the SEC and not have those sleep walk games.

[DAG 33,998]

3 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

That isn't what happened.  We interviewed Kirby and Kirby had way too many demands of Auburn.  When we tried to counter he wasn't having it.  We had no choice but to move on.

Was it too many demands or was it one specific demand? I thought it was something about allowing him to have access to something..I can’t  exactly remember .

[GwillMac6 20,692]

2 minutes ago, DAG said:

Was it too many demands or was it one specific demand? I thought it was something about allowing him to have access to something..I can’t  exactly remember .

1 of them I know was he wanted to coach Bama in the 2012 National Title game. 

[Gowebb11 9,343]

On 5/22/2019 at 8:48 AM, dyehardfanAU said:

How is the AU job tougher than Vandy, Ole Miss, Arkansas, MSU, or South Carolina?  How is it tougher than the bottom half of any P5 conference?

Because those schools don’t have fanbases that expect to consistently compete for championships against Bama, UGA, and LSU. 

[abw0004 10,125]

5 minutes ago, DAG said:

Was it too many demands or was it one specific demand? I thought it was something about allowing him to have access to something..I can’t  exactly remember .

The main issue was he wanted full control of the program without any input from anyone.  Basically with no boss to report to.  No program is like that with maybe the exception of Alabama.  Kirby is even finding out the hard way at UGA that will not fly.  Per WDE, Kirby is finding out UGA takes grades seriously and they will not allow their players' grades to be inflated or outside help to interfere.  Another issue was the insane amount of money he demanded.  There were rumblings that Kirby did not ever have intentions of accepting the Auburn job, that he was just messing with Auburn and trying to get a pay raise at Alabama.

[DAG 33,998]

7 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

The main issue was he wanted full control of the program without any input from anyone.  Basically with no boss to report to.  No program is like that with maybe the exception of Alabama.  Kirby is even finding out the hard way at UGA that will not fly.  Per WDE, Kirby is finding out UGA takes grades seriously and they will not allow their players' grades to be inflated or outside help to interfere.  Another issue was the insane amount of money he demanded.  There were rumblings that Kirby did not ever have intentions of accepting the Auburn job, that he was just messing with Auburn and trying to get a pay raise at Alabama.

Yeah I don’t know how true some of that is. Maybe he meant without so many hands in one pot wish is an ongoing issue at Auburn even recently. Either way, it is what it is. 

[Auctoritas 2,828]

22 hours ago, McLoofus said:

And this from the same people who keep bringing up the past and "what Auburn's always been". Welp, for the last 40 years and last 5 hires, Auburn has been a team that immediately gets a lot better when we hire a new coach. 

-From 3-9 to national championship game in year 1
-From 5-7 to national championship won in year 2
-From 3-8 to 9-4 by year 2
-From 5-5-1 to undefeated in year 1
-From 5-6 to 9-3 by year 2

These are how our last five hires started their tenures at Auburn. So yeah, we have shown time and time again how bad coaching changes are. 

Good gravy, folks. If y'all are going to talk about the past, at least get it right. 

Devil's advocate: of course, all of those coaches still coach at Auburn, so it's clear that a change in coaching is an automatic recipe for sustained success and winning. 

Technically, this data can also be as much an argument that all we will get if we change coaches is Gus or Gene. Quick success followed by years and years of everyone slowly beating their liver to death and single handedly keeping the makers of Pepto-Bismol afloat.

Not an argument for or against. 

 

(Edit to add: this is why, while I am not against a coaching change, I am against one that isn't done in a deliberate, considered manner. If we are going to roll the dice, I want to make sure they're loaded.)

[abw0004 10,125]

12 minutes ago, DAG said:

Yeah I don’t know how true some of that is. Maybe he meant without so many hands in one pot wish is an ongoing issue at Auburn even recently. Either way, it is what it is. 

At least we aren't as bad as Texas.  I would hate being their coach with all of those boosters having input on how you coach you own team.  

[DAG 33,998]

1 minute ago, abw0004 said:

At least we aren't as bad as Texas.  I would hate being their coach with all of those boosters having input on how you coach you own team.  

Texas is a whole different level ! Including at the high school level.

[gr82be 14,442]

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

I think the point is that Clemson is not subjected to the week in, week out pounding that comes with life in the SEC. It's not so hard to get entirely ready for four or five games a year. Being handed a conference schedule that contains eight teams that can beat you if you're not sharp is a different set of problems.

All those years ago, Bobby Bowden had his choice of the SEC or ACC.  He chose the ACC because he'd have one or two big conference games a year, not eight.

Late to this conversation but what most of us take issue with is the fact that there are 8 teams in the conference that have a chance to beat us any given Saturday. Do you think Alabama thinks that way? LSU? Georgia? No they don't and Auburn shouldn't either. We should never have to be concerned that we might lose to a Mississippi school. Clemson wouldn't be worried about it either. 

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

22 hours ago, ellitor said:

True but per Keith FWIW many times the way our fans have bellyached wherever it may be has created an additional challenge our staff has to deal with on the trail. I/m not saying don't bellyache or call for better just that we collectively are being heard. And yes it's up to our HC to win & do better so the bellyaches drops down.

I can tell you that no recruit has ever ever gone to another school because of bellyaching fans. This isn't just an AU thing with fans and bellyaching. Biggest MEH of MEH in recruiting. This and negative stuff of message boards.

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

57 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

The main issue was he wanted full control of the program without any input from anyone.  Basically with no boss to report to.  No program is like that with maybe the exception of Alabama.  Kirby is even finding out the hard way at UGA that will not fly.  Per WDE, Kirby is finding out UGA takes grades seriously and they will not allow their players' grades to be inflated or outside help to interfere.  Another issue was the insane amount of money he demanded.  There were rumblings that Kirby did not ever have intentions of accepting the Auburn job, that he was just messing with Auburn and trying to get a pay raise at Alabama.

Kirby would have taken the AU job in a heart beat.