Common Sense Policies On Immigration

[toddc 13,194]

People today are saying these statements and policies are racist, hateful, and xenophobic, but they sound like common sense to me! What say you?

“Our administration has moved aggressively to secure our borders more by hiring a record number of new border guards, by deporting twice as many criminal aliens as ever before, by cracking down on illegal hiring, by barring welfare benefits to illegal aliens.”

Those who enter the country illegally and those who employ them disrespect the rule of law, and they are showing disregard for those who are following the law. We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented (and) unchecked, and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently and lawfully to become immigrants in this country” he told a crowd.

[homersapien 11,446]

29 minutes ago, toddc said:

People today are saying these statements and policies are racist, hateful, and xenophobic, but they sound like common sense to me! What say you?

“Our administration has moved aggressively to secure our borders more by hiring a record number of new border guards, by deporting twice as many criminal aliens as ever before, by cracking down on illegal hiring, by barring welfare benefits to illegal aliens.”

Those who enter the country illegally and those who employ them disrespect the rule of law, and they are showing disregard for those who are following the law. We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented (and) unchecked, and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently and lawfully to become immigrants in this country” he told a crowd.

I say your post is begging-the-question. 

There is nothing in those statements per se' that are racist, hateful or xenophobic.  The racism, hate and xenophobia are rooted in the ongoing fear-mongering messaging of Trump ("rapists, murderers gang members, not good people"....) pandering to people's fears.  It is also rooted in policy details - such as the zero tolerance tactics that resulted in separation of families with little thought given to consequences.

And the second statement is a little unfair.  Many, if not most, of these immigrants are entering the country illegally are doing so out of shear desperation for their own and their children's lives and in consideration of the extreme difficulty of entering legally.  Saying they simply "disrespect" the law is clearly a prejudicial way of characterizing it.  You also would likely "disrespect" the law if the lives of your children were at stake. 

What we need are reasoned policies that respect these realities and emphasize humane treatment.  And we need to address the reasons they are becoming refugees at the source.  What we don't need is demagoguery by our president..

 

[toddc 13,194]

If I break the law for any reason I would face the consequences, and there would be nothing prejudice about it. 

We have supported these countries with millions of dollars in the past and the money was wasted or given to government cronies. What makes you think it’s gonna be different this time. 

[TitanTiger 20,510]

The statements also fail to distinguish between people sneaking over the border, trying to avoid authorities and just starting lives here vs people coming here and presenting themselves to authorities seeking asylum.  The majority of the people who are in these detention centers are in the latter category.  They weren't "discovered" sneaking over, they went to a border crossing checkpoint and are applying for asylum.  They are following the laws on asylum.  They are "doing it the right way."  

I'll also add that the way we are handling the asylum situation will exacerbate the problem of actual illegal border crossings.  When people see what "doing it the right way" gets you (indefinite detention in terrible conditions, separation of families, etc), they will be more likely to just take their chances sneaking in rather than go through all that.  So in claiming to just be dealing with illegal immigration, Trump is actually feeding the problem.

[toddc 13,194]

20 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I say your post is begging-the-question. 

There is nothing in those statements per se' that are racist, hateful or xenophobic.  The racism, hate and xenophobia are rooted in the ongoing fear-mongering messaging of Trump ("rapists, murderers gang members, not good people"....) pandering to people's fears.  It is also rooted in policy details - such as the zero tolerance tactics that resulted in separation of families with little thought given to consequences.

And the second statement is a little unfair.  Many, if not most, of these immigrants are entering the country illegally are doing so out of shear desperation for their own and their children's lives and in consideration of the extreme difficulty of entering legally.  Saying they simply "disrespect" the law is clearly a prejudicial way of characterizing it.  You also would likely "disrespect" the law if the lives of your children were at stake. 

What we need are reasoned policies that respect these realities and emphasize humane treatment.  And we need to address the reasons they are becoming refugees at the source.  What we don't need is demagoguery by our president..

 

When those who do it the “right way “ are deemed not to be true asylum seekers by a judge should they then be deported?

[DKW 86 7,440]

4 hours ago, homersapien said:

I say your post is begging-the-question. 

There is nothing in those statements per se' that are racist, hateful or xenophobic.  The racism, hate and xenophobia are rooted in the ongoing fear-mongering messaging of Trump ("rapists, murderers gang members, not good people"....) pandering to people's fears.  It is also rooted in policy details - such as the zero tolerance tactics that resulted in separation of families with little thought given to consequences.

And the second statement is a little unfair.  Many, if not most, of these immigrants are entering the country illegally are doing so out of shear desperation for their own and their children's lives and in consideration of the extreme difficulty of entering legally.  Saying they simply "disrespect" the law is clearly a prejudicial way of characterizing it.  You also would likely "disrespect" the law if the lives of your children were at stake. 

What we need are reasoned policies that respect these realities and emphasize humane treatment.  And we need to address the reasons they are becoming refugees at the source.  What we don't need is demagoguery by our president..

Explosive Hyperbole, used by both sides, has turned any movement on this issue into a death sentence for either side. 

CBP, ICE, etc are overwhelmed, underfunded, and attacked ceaselessly and viciously by those keeping them underfunded. The demand that ICE & CBP be completely disbanded is just insane, insane in the 100% meaning of the word. We have already seen diseases staging comebacks after being eradicated decades ago. the CDC wouldnt/couldnt allow them to go away. The immigrants themselves do have some criminal elements and gang violence in their numbers, but in no way by the numbers that The Big Cheeto hallucinates. These people are rightfully trying to escape countries that have evolved into full civil wars over drugs etc. 

I am afraid that nothing is going to happen FOR the real resolution of this issue for 6 years or more. The people that have conviced themselves that anything short of open borders is racism wont let it happen. 

What do you do when sanity is not a political option anymore?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/07/03/abolish-ice-end-reign-terror-latinos-immigrants-column/751742002/

 

[toddc 13,194]

By the way the quote in the first section of the OP was Clinton and the quote in the second section on immigration policy was President Obama!

[homersapien 11,446]

22 hours ago, toddc said:

If I break the law for any reason I would face the consequences, and there would be nothing prejudice about it. 

We have supported these countries with millions of dollars in the past and the money was wasted or given to government cronies. What makes you think it’s gonna be different this time. 

If you broke the law by entering someone's home to prevent your children from being murdered you'd likely get a break.

First, let's see some attribution on the "millions of dollars" claim.  Then we'll talk about how we can make it different this time.

 

[TitanTiger 20,510]

Also for the record, according to US law on asylum, you can apply for asylum even if you came in illegally.  Not sure if in the confusion surrounding what's going on, people realize this.

Quote

Can I Still Apply for Asylum Even if I Am in the United States Illegally?

Yes. You may apply for asylum with USCIS regardless of your immigration status if:

• You are not currently in removal proceedings
• You file an asylum application within one year of arriving to the United States or demonstrate that you are within an exception to that rule.

https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum/questions-and-answers-asylum-eligibility-and-applications

 

[homersapien 11,446]

23 hours ago, toddc said:

When those who do it the “right way “ are deemed not to be true asylum seekers by a judge should they then be deported?

Yes

[homersapien 11,446]

16 hours ago, toddc said:

By the way the quote in the first section of the OP was Clinton and the quote in the second section on immigration policy was President Obama!

OK.  I still stand by my response.