Wiley— Gotta play tougher and meaner!

[JwgreDeux 1,279]

1 hour ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

That’s why I think we’re never going to have a total picture of Wiley’s offensive value. Guy will likely never have the advantage of guards who can set him up. The discussion around him is always going to feature that nugget and/or his hands, or his post position, or his small set of go to moves 

It's all related. Our entry pass game needs work for sure, but his post position could improve which would give our passers better angles and easier passes. When I played, I loved having a guy Wiley's size, there's so much you can do off of an entry pass, re-spot up, cut to the goal when your man turns to look into the post, I mean he could open up so many things for our athletic wings if we could get him in a good spot and get him the rock. 

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,676]

54 minutes ago, JwgreDeux said:

It's all related. Our entry pass game needs work for sure, but his post position could improve which would give our passers better angles and easier passes. When I played, I loved having a guy Wiley's size, there's so much you can do off of an entry pass, re-spot up, cut to the goal when your man turns to look into the post, I mean he could open up so many things for our athletic wings if we could get him in a good spot and get him the rock. 

True, I’m referring to what his legacy’s narrative is going to be here though. All these problems aren’t likely to be alleviated here if they haven’t been to this point. 

[Ryan Sanders 123]

Bruce must find a way to get looks for Wiley. Right now, IMO, it’s too easy to see when they want to go to him. So the opposition is just clogging the passing lanes to him. 

I thought he did well (for the most part) with rebounding. I’m seeing less fumbling with the ball and more sticky fingers. 

Its not helping that the other guys are processing everything at a pretty slow speed at times. The play ran tonight against Davidson - I believe Wiley set a screen and then went to the hoop. McCormick should have passed the ball to him much sooner. Really gave Davidson time to react (but luckily they didn’t). 

Im glad we keep winning, and hopefully we figure out an offensive game for Wiley sooner than later. 

[doverstutts 1,643]

I thought AW played very well tonight. He owned the boards. He did well at the line until he hurt his foot, and he missed 2 right after that

[Sani-Freeze 552]

On 11/7/2019 at 10:24 PM, cole256 said:

He's not perfect but he's the guy with the most talent so he should be cheered on, it's not like we can say so and so needs the ball instead of him lol. I just know I've watched many of you be more tolerant of players with as many mistakes....and literally fight for anther player to receive any criticism at all. I don't understand that part. I just understand the basketball part. But I do know if ANYBODY of this team should be catered to as far as getting him the ball in the right positions and continually feeding him it's this guy. Literally if he's not injured he holds the most importance if this team goes anywhere or not because there aren't any other mismatches offensively with this team and we don't have the creative scorers that we did

I agree with you in theory- if we are going to play a slow half-court offense this year then we absolutely have to do more to get him involved. But it's a two-way street - he has got to get better at catching and holding onto the ball if they are going to scheme to force-feed him. There were a decent number of times last year where he fumbled perfect passes (or a smaller defender picked his pocket when he turned toward the basket) and sometimes it almost felt like Harper didn't trust throwing it to him. It's already happened several times in the first two games this season too. 

[Randman5000 4,229]

On 11/7/2019 at 3:22 PM, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

So a big part of your premise is that he doesn’t know how to completely use his size/strength? That high post up could lead to some back door cuts one day, although as some people have mentioned, Wiley isn’t a great passer out the post

I really think this is just lack of experience/ playing time. Not his fault. It goes to show that we don’t know that much about b-ball when we were expecting him to be half a year and done. 

[doverstutts 1,643]

I was pretty content ,overall, from last nights performance. Turbo has GOT to get his butt in gear. It was obvious that the PG postion needs work in both games this week. JM can do it, "I seent' it" last year.....

[cole256 17,084]

6 hours ago, Sani-Freeze said:

I agree with you in theory- if we are going to play a slow half-court offense this year then we absolutely have to do more to get him involved. But it's a two-way street - he has got to get better at catching and holding onto the ball if they are going to scheme to force-feed him. There were a decent number of times last year where he fumbled perfect passes (or a smaller defender picked his pocket when he turned toward the basket) and sometimes it almost felt like Harper didn't trust throwing it to him. It's already happened several times in the first two games this season too. 

Well I've wrote about why he's so important....every these past 3/4 years I seem to always have a majority of the board argue with me about a player...last 2 years it was chuma and purifoy. A little Wiley mixed in there. One year dunnans and Harris. One year this board wasn't too active and they were all over Bowers. I like my chances looking back on it.

With chuma I don't think I had one person backing me I think a couple of people may see what I say in Wiley though, but I look forward to see what happens in the future.

Oh and Wiley could not score a point and his presence and dirty work can get us wins. He sort of did that with North Carolina in the tourney last year. 

[bigbird 60,571]

1 minute ago, cole256 said:

With chuma I don't think I had one person backing me

Ummm...

[cole256 17,084]

I'm not CPU savy enough to do screenshots and play by plays and all of that but look at the first bit of highlights on auburn's YouTube account.....it's almost embarrassing how open he can be and they not give it to him...there's one play where he actually gets the ball and dunks it off a pass from samir...he was left wide open so eventually they had to hit him but it took so long; a good PG would kill to play with Wiley. The best passes to the postcame from A mac. I guess since he knows where he would like it that's why. The play where DP did a reverse move out of the post happened because a Mac threw it quick before the defender could set up and he threw it to dp's outside shoulder and led him a bit. Passing the ball like that really matters. It's stuff that really matters that many don't discuss because it wasn't an initial act right when the play was made, things like a pass being late, and throwing it at his knee instead of his outstretched hand.....But hopefully we'll improve

[cole256 17,084]

6 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Ummm...

You don't count because we can say the same thing but if they disagree they ignore you said it and if they agree they give you credit. That's why it's more impressive when Batman risk his life as opposed to superman.. I mean you took a risk but bullets bounce off of you and you can fly! 

I love talking comics and I'm super proud of this analogy!

[cole256 17,084]

4 hours ago, Randman5000 said:

I really think this is just lack of experience/ playing time. Not his fault. It goes to show that we don’t know that much about b-ball when we were expecting him to be half a year and done. 

This is a HUGE part. He gets a few passes a game and not the big ones, when is he supposed to develop all these moves, and passing, etc? Add on top of that his body has really changed...

Proof is in the pudding, when he trains with other NBA guys he has always showed out, he plays a different role in our offense. He may actually be sacrificing a bunch for us....maybe not but we can't really know

[Grumps 3,704]

6 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I'm not CPU savy enough to do screenshots and play by plays and all of that but look at the first bit of highlights on auburn's YouTube account.....it's almost embarrassing how open he can be and they not give it to him...there's one play where he actually gets the ball and dunks it off a pass from samir...he was left wide open so eventually they had to hit him but it took so long; a good PG would kill to play with Wiley. The best passes to the postcame from A mac. I guess since he knows where he would like it that's why. The play where DP did a reverse move out of the post happened because a Mac threw it quick before the defender could set up and he threw it to dp's outside shoulder and led him a bit. Passing the ball like that really matters. It's stuff that really matters that many don't discuss because it wasn't an initial act right when the play was made, things like a pass being late, and throwing it at his knee instead of his outstretched hand.....But hopefully we'll improve

It is frustrating to watch Wiley and AMac fight for position under the goal and never get a look. 

[AuburnNTexas 7,154]

When looking at Wiley you have to look at the total picture first game with a few more decent feeds he has a monster game and the few fumbled passes are forgotten. In Davidson game he brought down 10 boards and other team avoided the paint. Practice makes perfect as many times as I saw him fight to get open and no pass I think sometimes when they do pass it to him it catches him by surprise. You feed him more and he will handle the ball better.

Will he still have the ball stripped yes watch any Post player they get collapsed on so quickly it happens.  Does he bring it down when he shouldn't the answer is yes sometimes but a lot of the times it is where the ball was thrown to him that makes it easy to strip.  As the season goes on I think you will see Wiley become even more of an offense presence once other players learn how to use him.  As Okoro develops his offensive game and people start collapsing on him a quick pass to Wiley for an easy basket will help Wiley and Okoro.

[auburnphan 6,050]

On 11/9/2019 at 2:45 PM, cole256 said:

I'm not CPU savy enough to do screenshots and play by plays and all of that but look at the first bit of highlights on auburn's YouTube account.....it's almost embarrassing how open he can be and they not give it to him...there's one play where he actually gets the ball and dunks it off a pass from samir...he was left wide open so eventually they had to hit him but it took so long; a good PG would kill to play with Wiley. The best passes to the postcame from A mac. I guess since he knows where he would like it that's why. The play where DP did a reverse move out of the post happened because a Mac threw it quick before the defender could set up and he threw it to dp's outside shoulder and led him a bit. Passing the ball like that really matters. It's stuff that really matters that many don't discuss because it wasn't an initial act right when the play was made, things like a pass being late, and throwing it at his knee instead of his outstretched hand.....But hopefully we'll improve

I was with you on Chuma last year, just saying.😎

[AU64 10,122]

RE: The OP.

The game vs USA shows he has a long way to go in both aspects.  

JMO but I don't think he's ever gonna be an offensive factor but he sure could help the team on defense more than he does.  I keep hoping that he will take pride in his defense...become the beast that he could be....block out and get rebounds......and JMO but do that well and the points will come. 

[Tiger 8,829]

I was hoping he'd look less clunky with his post moves this year and opt to power through people rather than shoot a finesse hook

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,676]

It’s interesting, but Mac has really looked decent in the post this year

[AU64 10,122]

On 11/9/2019 at 3:37 PM, cole256 said:

Oh and Wiley could not score a point and his presence and dirty work can get us wins.

Agree....just thinking that trying to force the ball in to him is not worth it.    I keep hearing more about basketball becoming a "position-less" game  and could be that the style of play with a big post player is passing AW by.    It's pretty rare to see a team play an offense that uses the 'post' as an offensive weapon and I don't think it would work for AU.  

JMO but would be good for him to forget the idea of the guards feeding him the ball so he can "take it to the hoop".  and just do the dirty work as you note.   Rebounding is an issue for AU and last night at a key point in the game, a couple middle sized guys fought hard and found a way to get the offensive rebounds that saved the game.   I'd be plenty happy to see AW get the put-backs and to make the outlets on fast breaks.   

[cole256 17,084]

8 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Agree....just thinking that trying to force the ball in to him is not worth it.    I keep hearing more about basketball becoming a "position-less" game  and could be that the style of play with a big post player is passing AW by.    It's pretty rare to see a team play an offense that uses the 'post' as an offensive weapon and I don't think it would work for AU.  

JMO but would be good for him to forget the idea of the guards feeding him the ball so he can "take it to the hoop".  and just do the dirty work as you note.   Rebounding is an issue for AU and last night at a key point in the game, a couple middle sized guys fought hard and found a way to get the offensive rebounds that saved the game.   I'd be plenty happy to see AW get the put-backs and to make the outlets on fast breaks.   

That should absolutely be his priority, but giving him the ball isn't for him to "take it to the hoop" he's already down there. If they threw it to him right he's simply a better chance of scoring than our guards if they try to create their own shots. Johnson may be the only good shooter on the team....and we don't even know about him yet. We don't have the same team from last year

[AU64 10,122]

14 minutes ago, cole256 said:

That should absolutely be his priority, but giving him the ball isn't for him to "take it to the hoop" he's already down there. If they threw it to him right he's simply a better chance of scoring than our guards if they try to create their own shots. Johnson may be the only good shooter on the team....and we don't even know about him yet. We don't have the same team from last year

True...he is near the basket but generally still has to make a move of some kind to get a lay up...and do it without fouling...better chance than guards?...maybe but I am not sure...and it would help if he were a better FT shooter.

[jared52 4,354]

Wiley is having a terrible time sealing his man, but as we've said before it's much to do with how bad the entry passes are to him. But he has to be stronger and more assertive in there. He also needs to make them so they will squeeze down on him giving the shooters more room to get open.

[LKEEL75 2,566]

To anyone with an opinion (if there are any of those on the internet)

Do you believe that Wiley's struggles will have other bigs thinking that its a system problem and not want to come to AU?

[Kaiiu 62]

28 minutes ago, LKEEL75 said:

To anyone with an opinion (if there are any of those on the internet)

Do you believe that Wiley's struggles will have other bigs thinking that its a system problem and not want to come to AU?

Nah. Wiley is a pretty stiff big who isn't that athletic. The huge stocky bigs are becoming a thing of the past in the NBA and even in college basketball. How AMac plays is more similar to how the NBA is shifting to. Big who can block shots, run the floor, and stretch the floor with the 3 ball. That's why Kessler was looking at us so hard. No one in the NBA is posting up their big unless they're uber talented like a Joel Embiid, or a Karl Anthony Towns, etc. A lot of Wiley's troubles are injuries, not being able to seal his man properly, and having really bad hands.

Even with that Wiley is still a good player but his inconsistency is a bit frustrating, some of it is our guard's fault as well.

[Tiger 8,829]

2 hours ago, LKEEL75 said:

Do you believe that Wiley's struggles will have other bigs thinking that its a system problem and not want to come to AU?

The following is JMO but I'm expecting Stretch to weaken any of those concerns for us starting next year. I personally think he's going to be a longer, taller Horace Spencer in regards to role. We don't need a back to the basket big. We need our 5 man to be rim runners who catch lobs, disrupt shots, board up, and can run the floor. If they can hit a 3 that takes us to another level big time. As others have said, Wiley isn't the best fit for us because his natural abilities don't mesh that well with what we like to do/can do offensively. Even your Embiid's and KAT's, as @Kaiiu alluded to, step out and hit 3s. Anfernee won't do any damage with his back to the basket at the 5 but he's a great fit for us because you have to respect his 3 ball and it really stresses defenses.

Wiley can run the floor, catch lobs, disrupt shots, and rebound. But asking him to give us 14-18 points off of post-up isolation sets is not going to be an efficient way for us to succeed. Partly because of Wiley's ability. And partly because we just aren't good post entry passers. I see him getting good position but by the time we get it to him he's no longer in position to make a quick move for an easy bucket and he starts going to the less than reliable hook shot. Plus teams aren't really posting guys up anymore. I think the Brooklyn Nets have posted up their bigs all of 5 (!) times this season. That being said his size is extremely valuable to us and will be very much crucial when conference play starts.

I hope we can get Cliff Omoruyi. He's one of those quicker bigs who would absolutely crush it in our havoc wreaking defensive style. That's the type of guy I want to see Bruce molding. Long, athletic, and bouncy. No idea what our chances are with him though.