Harsin vs Gus from a former player

[Mikey 16,622]

1 hour ago, auburnphan said:

Are you purposely acting a fool?  
It is obvious that everyone is talking about recruiting staff.  The more guys you have on staff the more they are able to keep in contact on social media platforms, the number one means of recruiting now.

Coincidently it is also another major factor in the failures of this last recruiting cycle, which had many adding up in all fairness.

How many more people did UAT have in their "recruiting staff" than Auburn? Surely there are numbers somewhere besides in Gripeland. Until the current wave of Gus gripes, I've never heard the term "recruiting staff". How many people will Coach Harsin have in his shadowy coven of recruiting staff?

This last recruiting cycle was looking very good back in the Spring of 2020. Then the rumors and backstabbing started. Players said to be leaning to AU went elsewhere, some who had committed flipped. Others were lost when it became clear that a coaching change was/had been done. These things would have happened even if there had been dozens of members of a mysterious recruiting staff that lurks in the shadows and only gets mentioned when bashers want to continue bashing.

[aubearcat 2,137]

I suppose I’ll give it one more attempt. It’s on this very site the amount ua spent on recruiting and the amount AUburn spent on recruiting. The difference is astronomical and it was said because the recruiting staff/department was much smaller at AUburn because of Gus’ design preference. It’s not only here but also from Jake Crain, Justin Hokanson, also mentioned in the podcast that this thread references, ... etc. Recruiting staff was not just coaches but also analysts and off-field positions that were talent scouts pointing the on staff recruiters to talent.  One failure in recruiting was a top WR coached by former player T Zachery. Zachery had the player interested in AUburn but by the time Gus allowed Kodi to recruit him the ship had sailed. I understand you may like Gus but his shortcomings are well documented and no, Gus isn’t going to come out and say he did all these things just like Steele and the boosters weren’t going to come out in public and say what they did. 

[slyinsocal 831]

It's easier for the unaware micromanager to manage and control fewer people than more people. Plus he can hold it up to the PTB as a cost savings. Not saying that's bad, but some folks are uncomfortable adding more and more people on their plate.

[cole256 17,084]

3 hours ago, abw0004 said:

I don't really buy into the "former players were not welcome back at Auburn" statement.  Everything else said is believable.  You have former players come back all of the time to workout at Auburn.  Daniel Carlson comes back every summer.  DeShaun Davis and Tre Williams still work out at Auburn.  At the games you also see former players all over the sidelines from many generations.

Now if you are a player that transferred out to another program, I could see that where you wouldn't be welcome back as it would be a distraction to the team.  Everything else is believable.

The other guys said the same thing. Why would these guys lie about that? Reese is the one who brought it up

[AUx 3,010]

23 minutes ago, slyinsocal said:

It's easier for the unaware micromanager to manage and control fewer people than more people. Plus he can hold it up to the PTB as a cost savings. Not saying that's bad, but some folks are uncomfortable adding more and more people on their plate.

The most miserable places I worked (thankfully just 2) were this environment. Micromanagement induced by myriad insecurities. Organizations suffered insane turnover. Always shorthanded. Silly things required a “mother may I.” All actions looked like the leader trusted nobody. Passive-aggressive control. There was so much untapped potential. The organizations had unlimited upside, just bound by one or two leaders acting like kindergarten teachers. Sound familiar? I’ve no idea if that was AU 2010-2020. But the symptoms sure looked that way to this outsider. Here’s to a liberated giant!

[keesler 5,924]

33 minutes ago, slyinsocal said:

It's easier for the unaware micromanager to manage and control fewer people than more people. Plus he can hold it up to the PTB as a cost savings. Not saying that's bad, but some folks are uncomfortable adding more and more people on their plate.

Are some folks on here are irritated that Auburn football doesn't spend the recruiting dollars our main rival spends? 

Seriously, are these the same folks that praised our Athletic Director for being physically responsible when he cut athletic budgets 10% across the board?  Or threw out cost saving avenues for AU teams to lodge at the Courtyard rather than a high-rise hotel, eat at Outback rather than Ruth's Chris Steakhouse, take buses to team travel rather than a jet?

Either Auburn commits to spend in tandem with our main SEC rivals or we continue with what we've done.  This is the SEC and either the Auburn Administration realizes what it takes to compete with the best SEC programs or we continue on the path we've been on.  But to praise the Administration for being cost conscious while wishing we operated at a recruiting budget over 3 times what we've spent is odd. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, keesler said:

But to praise the Administration for being cost conscious while wishing we operated at a recruiting budget over 3 times what we've spent is odd. 

To my understanding, the primary thrust of the austerity measures was to address the bloated payroll in the AD, and what has been praised.

 

[abw0004 10,125]

1 hour ago, cole256 said:

The other guys said the same thing. Why would these guys lie about that? Reese is the one who brought it up

That is a little odd.  Reese has been back to Auburn at the facility himself.  I have seen him post it on Facebook before.

[Barnacle 9,064]

6 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

That is a little odd.  Reese has been back to Auburn at the facility himself.  I have seen him post it on Facebook before.

I recommend listening to the podcast. Don't believe it was a closed door policy, but I don't think it was an open door policy, either. 

[cole256 17,084]

3 hours ago, abw0004 said:

That is a little odd.  Reese has been back to Auburn at the facility himself.  I have seen him post it on Facebook before.

Have you listened to it? 

[cole256 17,084]

IMO once again it's just my opinion. If you try to discredit what's said based on how good the player is, it's that type of mentality that enables this behavior to even be able to sustain in the first place. 

If you want to know the state of a program you wouldn't talk to the superstar. Of course he's treated well or whatever. Talk to the walk on or the back up linebacker or somebody like that if you want the real deal

[keesler 5,924]

3 hours ago, McLoofus said:

To my understanding, the primary thrust of the austerity measures was to address the bloated payroll in the AD, and what has been praised.

 

Oh, that was praised as well and I remember that.  

I also remember I stated that when the 10% budget cut was across all sports after Bruce took AU to their 1st Final 4, and baseball had made the MCWS, and equestrian had won a NC that it didn't seem fair to make those sports cut their budgets at that time.  I also mentioned the appearance of Auburn players taking buses instead of planes and lodging in discount hotels and literally getting lesser "benefits" in the form of luxury items than what our rivals were giving their athletes looked cheap in comparison.  And I was scolded for questioning the measures AD Greene chose to take relative to the AD's budget and finances, people said I should appreciate an AD that showed physical responsibility.  I questioned if AD Greene realized this is the SEC, this is not Buffalo and folks got pissed so I let it go.

I even said it could and would likely impact Auburn recruiting.  And this very thread mentions the Auburn's lacking in facilities and former players now have stated they had to beg for needed equipment, etc.  Shaving a bloated staff is one thing, having Auburn appear less than our rivals and the appearance of skrimping in areas where the program can lavish their players with first class accommodations/travel/lodging/meals like our rivals is another thing altogether.

Folks want Auburn to go toe to toe with the best in this conference, then Auburn better be ready to spend like the best programs in this conference.  I just hope Greene/Gouge and the Administration realize this.

 

[keesler 5,924]

3 hours ago, Barnacle said:

I recommend listening to the podcast. Don't believe it was a closed door policy, but I don't think it was an open door policy, either. 

An open door policy would've encouraged our Auburn NFL players to have access to the program.  Why couldn't some of our players now in the pro's get the attention of their NFL coaches and open a few doors for those NFL coaches to come to camps at AU?  Networking and connecting with pro players and coaches are what our main rivals have done for years.  The former AU staff had Troy or ArkyState's coaches come for a camp while our main rivals had freaking NFL HC's and Asst's attend theirs.  😒

It's a whole other level at other places, and folks either didn't see it or didn't care for some reason.

[cole256 17,084]

10 minutes ago, keesler said:

An open door policy would've encouraged our Auburn NFL players to have access to the program.  Why couldn't some of our players now in the pro's get the attention of their NFL coaches and open a few doors for those NFL coaches to come to camps at AU?  Networking and connecting with pro players and coaches are what our main rivals have done for years.  The former AU staff had Troy or ArkyState's coaches come for a camp while our main rivals had freaking NFL HC's and Asst's attend theirs.  😒

It's a whole other level at other places, and folks either didn't see it or didn't care for some reason.

Well I'm thinking Gus may would have a problem with that.....the coaching camp stuff that is

[ValleyTiger 2,894]

22 hours ago, aubearcat said:

One failure in recruiting was a top WR coached by former player T Zachery. Zachery had the player interested in AUburn but by the time Gus allowed Kodi to recruit him the ship had sailed.

Valid point, but just for accuracy's sake it was Courtney Taylor calling Kodi about WR Emeka Egbuka and Kodi drug his feet, too.

[bigbird 60,564]

On 1/25/2021 at 7:48 AM, auburnphan said:

Coincidently it is also another major factor in the failures of this last recruiting cycle, which had many adding up in all fairness.

You mean, when we couldn't have on campus visits and other staffs were prepared and easily converted to virtual recruiting, we didn't have the infrastructure in place to pivot and effectively recruit?

[Beaker 2,457]

how did Gus ever land the classes he did from 2015-2019?

 

I put Gus in the same basket as Franchione - Franchione rode his association with L Tomlinson to the bank at bama and TAMU.  Without Tomlinson, Franchione may not have made it at TCU. 

Without Nick Marshall, Gus would not have made 50 or so million from Auburn. 

 

They both caught lightning in a bottle.

 

[aucanucktiger 1,794]

Wish I could find c.2010 article of players chuckling at the way Gus was as OC during bowl prep. The concensus was Malzahn lived & breathed the game and while everybody else was kicking back for bowl festivities he was with them but drawing up plays on envelopes. Because he was not socially animated, the few vids of him dancing/cutting up went viral.

IMO that nerdy introvert image worked against him when the tortured genius stuff wore off as HC and his cryptic.and less than entertaining press conferences added to dullards' hatred of the man as a person (see e.g. comparison of Malzahn to credit card thief smarm Francione above).

[keesler 5,924]

6 hours ago, bigbird said:

You mean, when we couldn't have on campus visits and other staffs were prepared and easily converted to virtual recruiting, we didn't have the infrastructure in place to pivot and effectively recruit?

Are you serious that with all the media clips and the "hype video's" galore that get posted and raved over on this board, Auburn didn't have anyone in place to crank out virtual recruiting?  We get workout and gym pics and video's, hype video's and motto's blasted out, but we didn't have the "infrastructure in place" to handle virtual recruiting.  Hell, virtual recruiting should be a mainstay in the recruiting arsenal to go right along with on-campus recruiting.  

When damn the entire county closed down in Spring '20 and campuses closed and went fully on-line in the classroom, it was well known that on campus visits were off for the recruiting year.  Yet Auburn didn't have anyone in the AD lined up to take care of online & virtual recruiting to sell our program. WTH?

Knowing and being fully aware of what other programs were doing to compensate for the pandemic and Auburn failed to follow suit.  Someone seriously dropped the ball with this and hopefully they've been fired. 

[auburnphan 6,050]

7 hours ago, bigbird said:

You mean, when we couldn't have on campus visits and other staffs were prepared and easily converted to virtual recruiting, we didn't have the infrastructure in place to pivot and effectively recruit?

exactly!!!

[cole256 17,084]

8 hours ago, bigbird said:

You mean, when we couldn't have on campus visits and other staffs were prepared and easily converted to virtual recruiting, we didn't have the infrastructure in place to pivot and effectively recruit?

You know when I sat and thought about it, I really did wonder did Gus give up. He knows he has to have good players to compete. The LAST thing you'd think is he wouldn't be good at recruiting. I would be bad at X's and O's before I would be bad or at least stop trying to recruit. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

9 minutes ago, cole256 said:

The LAST thing you'd think is he wouldn't be good at recruiting. 

That's actually the first thing I would think he wouldn't be good at, and this pandemic probably showed how much he had been relying on Auburn to sell Auburn. 

But I think your point was more about recruiting effort and planning being squarely within his control. 

[chizhead 618]

I wonder if Gus, after signing the big contract, got complacent and lost his edge. I don't really think he deliberately stopped trying to compete, he's too high character for that, but there was obviously something wrong with the lack of concern over recruiting and infrastructure

[cole256 17,084]

Just now, Barnacle said:

That's actually the first thing I would think he wouldn't be good at, and this pandemic probably showed how much he had been relying on Auburn to sell Auburn. 

But I think your point was more about recruiting effort and planning being squarely within his control. 

Yes. I think recruiting is just effort when you're a head coach. You just get on the phone at the right time and show up at the right time and say I want you......it's like when a doctor have nurses and techs to set up and do everything and they come in and look at results and say I like what I see or I don't. 

They set the recruits up just make a few trips and phone calls and knock them down. 

It's absolutely ridiculous the talent wasted in North West Alabama. That guard for Alabama is from Decatur was a 3 star and he didn't  have an offer from us.....didn't give up a sack his entire career.  You can't miss on guys like that. And when I say miss I mean you have to try. I know they are who they are but you can't willingly just give them guys. That makes you look like you don't believe in your own damn school!

[McLoofus 35,182]

13 hours ago, cole256 said:

Yes. I think recruiting is just effort when you're a head coach. You just get on the phone at the right time and show up at the right time and say I want you......it's like when a doctor have nurses and techs to set up and do everything and they come in and look at results and say I like what I see or I don't. 

They set the recruits up just make a few trips and phone calls and knock them down. 

It's absolutely ridiculous the talent wasted in North West Alabama. That guard for Alabama is from Decatur was a 3 star and he didn't  have an offer from us.....didn't give up a sack his entire career.  You can't miss on guys like that. And when I say miss I mean you have to try. I know they are who they are but you can't willingly just give them guys. That makes you look like you don't believe in your own damn school!

Another form of effort that I think we're seeing from Harsin that we didn't see as much from Gus- or maybe it goes back to Gus's trust issues more than effort (looking at you, Tubs) like so many things do- is creating the infrastructure (off field staff) to do a lot of the leg work. I love that you talked about knowing the right time because I bet that the more successful, comprehensive recruiting programs have admin staff to keep track of the recruits that way.