Teen granted youthful offender status in deaths of Auburn announcer Rod Bramblett, wife Paula

[GoAU 1,600]

On 4/15/2021 at 11:09 AM, TitanTiger said:

Sure there are.  But the vast majority of the tough on crime folks who want to take away judicial discretion, advocate for three strikes laws and mandatory minimums and all that have a mentality that it's about *those* people.  So when it's "one of ours" suddenly the narrative shifts and we need to consider the circumstances and such.

I think there is a lot of truth in your statement.  When you know someone in “real life” there is a context that is missing when you just read about it in an article or see it on the news.  

I would also say the flipped of this is true - if someone you know or from your family is the victim I think in the vast majority of the cases the “he’s just a kid” goes right out the window.

I struggle with the “youthful offender” status in a lot of cases anyway.  For example, at 16-18 you darn well know DUI is a problem just as much as someone that’s 30 or 40, and maybe even more.   I do see some use in “first offender” leniency in cases where someone has not had prior run ins with the law and commits a crime WITHOUT INTENT TO HARM.  Sorry, an armed robbery, felonious assault, carjacking, etc gets you the full Monty - you knew what you were trying to do.  

[I_M4_AU 7,819]

3 hours ago, bigbird said:

No longer allowed. You're sitting in jail nowadays if you get in a fight.

I agree, the guy that wrote that seems to be living in the past.  However, respect can be earned by this type of altercation.

[bigbird 60,523]

5 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

I agree, the guy that wrote that seems to be living in the past.  However, respect can be earned by this type of altercation.

Agreed. My best friend growing up and I got in a huge fight the first day we met. On day 2, best friends.  

[augolf1716 21,130]

50 minutes ago, bigbird said:

best friend growing up and I got in a huge fight the first day we met.

Please tell me he beat the crap out of you

[AUDub 11,148]

On 4/25/2021 at 6:42 PM, augolf1716 said:

Please tell me he beat the crap out of you

I'll gladly cop to making friends with 2 guys to that got the better of me in fights during football practice lol.

One happened when I was junior. Dude was having major issues with a death in the family I wasn't aware of and was hitting me hard as hell during routine OL drills. He was our starting LT and an absolute bad ass. One more too heavy hit and I'd finally had enough, tossed the pad and started throwing hands. He caught my facemask and just went to town. Not that it hurt. You know, helmet and shoulder pads.

Coach comes to me during reps and told me this guy had lost his grandfather over the weekend. They were close. I went to him, gave him a handshake and a bro-hug and asked him if there was anything I could do. Dude was in tears.

We're still friends now.

Other one was when I was a green as hell sophomore. I was the scout team tight-end and he was first team OLB. Caught his ass on a nasty as hell crack block while I was flexed. I mean absolutely waxed his ass and put him in the dirt. He took exception to that lol. Next 3 or so plays he made it his mission in life to kick my ass. There was a fight, obviously, and this guy won.

Again we made up and are bros now. Still got that ripped to s*** practice jersey tied back together with shoestring.

Hot damn I miss football. 

[augolf1716 21,130]

1 hour ago, AUDub said:

I'll gladly cop to making friends with 2 guys to that got the better of me in fights during football practice lol.

One happened when I was junior. Dude was having major issues with a death in the family I wasn't aware of and was hitting me hard as hell during routine OL drills. He was our starting LT and an absolute bad ass. One more too heavy hit and I'd finally had enough, tossed the pad and started throwing hands. He caught my facemask and just went to town. Not that it hurt. You know, helmet and shoulder pads.

Coach comes to me during reps and told me this guy had lost his grandfather over the weekend. They were close. I went to him, gave him a handshake and a bro-hug and asked him if there was anything I could do. Dude was in tears.

We're still friends now.

Other one was when I was a green as hell sophomore. I was the scout team tight-end and he was first team OLB. Caught his ass on a nasty as hell crack block while I was flexed. I mean absolutely waxed his ass and put him in the dirt. He took exception to that lol. Next 3 or so plays he made it his mission in life to kick my ass. There was a fight, obviously, and this guy won.

Again we made up and are bros now. Still got that ripped to s*** practice jersey tied back together with shoestring.

Hot damn I miss football. 

Didn't you also kick for your HS team not sure I remember correctly. Never got in a fight while playing football. I was a pretty good trash talker as a DB, I had at least three incidents during games the wide outs I was covering got so pissed off at me one started chasing me after the play......the other two times guys took a swing at me. All three times they got flagged lucky for me cause our head coach would have killed me if we had gotten flagged. We were pretty good back then winning 41 games in row and two state championships back to back. Those were the days.

[AUDub 11,148]

3 minutes ago, augolf1716 said:

Didn't you also kick for your HS team not sure I remember correctly. Never got in a fight while playing football. I was a pretty good trash talker as a DB, I had at least three incidents during games the wide outs I was covering got so pissed off at me one started chasing me after the play......the other two times guys took a swing at me. All three times they got flagged lucky for me cause our head coach would have killed me if we had gotten flagged. We were pretty good back then winning 41 games in row and two state championships back to back. Those were the days.

Yep. I was a TE first and foremost, hence drilling with the o-line and cracking back on linebackers. Kicker was incidental. I was the goalkeeper for the varsity soccer team too so wrapping up spring practice going into my senior year coach Hal Riddle comes up to me and says "Benson, I hear you're a soccer player. We need a kicker. Mind going to some camps before the fall?" I was awful wrapping up the spring having no experience placekicking beyond goal kicks, but one camp in June did wonders and I was the starting kicker come that fall.

Fighting was tacitly encouraged in practice. I mean, you'd get punished, of course, and the preferred method was a bus tire with a 10 foot tether with shoulder straps dragged behind you. Dragging that thing 'til you barfed without complaint was the mark of a badass lol. 

Made for good bonding. 

[AUDub 11,148]

Allow me to regale you with one of the best tales of my high school years:

I broke the depth chart and was a legit starter by my senior year, but as a sophomore I was only on my second year of playing football and a scrub. My buddies were my fellow scout teamers of all ages. One of those guys was a senior named Daniel. He was never going to be a contributor, destined to remain a scout teamer. He played WR/DB. He was 5'6 and 150ish pounds.

One day during drills there was this a**hole named Parker, a junior DT and a big dude, probably about 250, and who broke the depth chart his senior year, got a hold of a ball during reps and and started chucking it at the sophomores and scout teamers watching reps. He hit Daniel by accident. Daniel got the ball and held on to it. Parker told him to give the ball back and Daniel gave him the finger and a hell no. Next thing we know, Parker tries to jump him.

Daniel may not have been ideally sized for a football player, but the dude could absolutely scrap. He got his left hand inside Parker's shoulder pads to the left of his neck in spite of being jumped without warning, whipped him to the ground and proceeded to unload on his ass with his right hand. It was a glorious beating, and there isn't a person alive that doesn't love to watch a bully getting his.

Coaches made them run laps for the remainder of practice before making them strap the tire.

Sophomores always had to go behind the goal posts to catch the kicker's practice FG's at the end of practice. A ball that hit the ground was 10 green bays. Every time Daniel passed we cheered even if it meant a ball hitting the ground, and very time Parker passed we gave him hell even if it meant a ball hitting the ground. 

Again, I miss football. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by AUDub

[AUDub 11,148]

Speaking of Daniel, he was a poster on the old Auburn Eagle Forum. Need to see if I can drag his ass back here. 

[DKW 86 7,423]

On 4/25/2021 at 1:54 PM, bigbird said:

No longer allowed. You're sitting in jail nowadays if you get in a fight.

So...go sit in the jail for a day or so. Beats trying to beat a shooting charge, etc. 

[DKW 86 7,423]

5 hours ago, AUDub said:

I'll gladly cop to making friends with 2 guys to that got the better of me in fights during football practice lol.

One happened when I was junior. Dude was having major issues with a death in the family I wasn't aware of and was hitting me hard as hell during routine OL drills. He was our starting LT and an absolute bad ass. One more too heavy hit and I'd finally had enough, tossed the pad and started throwing hands. He caught my facemask and just went to town. Not that it hurt. You know, helmet and shoulder pads.

Coach comes to me during reps and told me this guy had lost his grandfather over the weekend. They were close. I went to him, gave him a handshake and a bro-hug and asked him if there was anything I could do. Dude was in tears.

We're still friends now.

Other one was when I was a green as hell sophomore. I was the scout team tight-end and he was first team OLB. Caught his ass on a nasty as hell crack block while I was flexed. I mean absolutely waxed his ass and put him in the dirt. He took exception to that lol. Next 3 or so plays he made it his mission in life to kick my ass. There was a fight, obviously, and this guy won.

Again we made up and are bros now. Still got that ripped to s*** practice jersey tied back together with shoestring.

Hot damn I miss football. 

Real life is about moments like this. Not shouting down someone etc.

[AUDub 11,148]

3 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Real life is about moments like this. Not shouting down someone etc.

Football, and sports in general, was a hell of a crucible and huge in my development as a person. Part of the reason I really don't want it to disappear. I made a lot of friends and learned to dish and accept ass whippings with grace. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by AUDub

[DKW 86 7,423]

7 hours ago, AUDub said:

Football, and sports in general, was a hell of a crucible and huge in my development as a person. Part of the reason I really don't want it to disappear. I made a lot of friends and learned to dish and accept ass whippings with grace. 

Dub, I have dealt with youth for years. It is funny how many single parent Moms, out there, all good women, are shocked when at about 13-14 years of age their wonderful lil boys just quit listening to them. It is a part of a young man's growing up to push boundaries and find where they are. Single moms do not have the Dads there to firmly set those boundaries. Their sons just out grow them and suddenly kids are ruling the homes. I have seen some black women, strong black women whip their sons into line. Some white bread woman, she is going to cry in the corner and beat herself up over why he doesnt love her and what she did wrong. The answer is nothing. He is just becoming male. 

Worked at a parts store for 18 years. When I left, a larger and larger portion of our business was going to women. The males in their lives, raised by women, were useless around cars. They didnt know a battery from a lug wrench. seriously. We would go out to help a young lady with oil, headlights, tail lights, etc. and their useless BFs would be sitting in the passenger seats playing with themselves, the radio, or their cell phones. They didnt know squat and didnt want to learn. We had husbands come in and buy head lights, figure out it took more than 30 seconds to swap out and send their wives back so we would install them for their wives. Meanwhile, their wives were not impressed that their husbands were just adult children they were having to raise as well. I bet close to half our battery checks were nothing but their "men" did not know how to tighten a battery clamp. SERIOUSLY.

Common lines at the parts store:
"If it werent for the steering wheel HE wouldnt know which end of the car went down the road first." 
"All he knows about a car is where to put the gas and how the radio works."

Women told us these hundreds of times...On the flip side, it made competent males a rare and highly attractive commodity to many women. You can take that anywhere you want. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by DKW 86

[AU9377 4,930]

On 4/23/2021 at 7:24 AM, DKW 86 said:

For those swayed by him being a kid, someone's child, what remorse has he shown? He immediately got 2-3 more speeding tickets and failed a drug test or two. Are we to overlook all that? 

In every single criminal event, there are circumstances and I think that they should indeed be looked at. He is a kid. He obviously has a huge drug problem. But the criminal case boils down to: Was he operating a motor vehicle in a dangerous and negligent way that killed someone? Straight up, that is manslaughter. Has he shown any remorse? Not much vision on that. 

If he was a black kid, he would be going to prison for several (maybe 5-7) years. If he was a middle class white kid, he would get 2-3 years maybe. But because of who he is, he will likely get nothing but a meaningless trip to rehab and probation. This is not about me being a throw the book at em tough on crime guy. I am the one on this forum that has talked at length on the tragedy and damage the 1994 Crime Bill that has been so devastating on the Black community. I do get it. Some around here cant even tolerate that Biden, who wrote the bill, could possibly have part of any legislation that wasnt perfect. You know, party line and all that BS.

I am arguing that even with the recusals etc, The kid is going to get away with this. Clearly guilty of manslaughter, gets rehab and probation. The problem is that he knew he was going to get away with this even when it happened. I truly feel sorry for the kid. He has likely never had to meet any expectations in his life. 

There are disparities in the system, but plenty of kids that aren't white get the same treatment. There are also cases with adults that result in light sentences. 

https://patch.com/alabama/birmingham-al/birmingham-woman-sentenced-after-deadly-dui-crash

If a judge is doing his job, the race of the person charged should not impact the outcome.  If we all agree on that, then the fact that this particular defendant is white should not make his eligibility to qualify under the state's youthful offender statute less likely.  You can't fix a social issue with a particular defendant.

Some of the things you say above paint a picture that is worse than what the actual facts show.  He failed one substance screen and that was for alcohol consumption.  The judge decided that it was at least as likely that the result was caused by allergy meds as it was from consumption of alcoholic beverages.  You don't know what the kid was thinking, nor do I.  What we do know is that prior to this, he had never been arrested or charged with a crime.

Who he is had absolutely no impact on this.  To be honest, he isn't from some uber rich family. His extended family has been in the area for decades and own a local business.  They aren't the Ewings with oil wells out back.

I agree that there have to be consequences, but keep in mind that this is not an intent based crime.  At its core, this was an accident that was caused by reckless conduct. It was tragic and avoidable, but the kid didn't head home thinking he would kill someone on the way.

[DKW 86 7,423]

8 hours ago, AU9377 said:

There are disparities in the system, but plenty of kids that aren't white get the same treatment. There are also cases with adults that result in light sentences. 

https://patch.com/alabama/birmingham-al/birmingham-woman-sentenced-after-deadly-dui-crash

If a judge is doing his job, the race of the person charged should not impact the outcome.  If we all agree on that, then the fact that this particular defendant is white should not make his eligibility to qualify under the state's youthful offender statute less likely.  You can't fix a social issue with a particular defendant. It is just the blue jillionth iteration of the same bias we have all seen ad nauseum. Wealthy-Privileged-White-Male gets away with a crime that would send the rest of us to jail for a while.

Some of the things you say above paint a picture that is worse than what the actual facts show.  He failed one substance screen and that was for alcohol consumption.  MULTIPLE TIMES The judge decided that it was at least as likely that the result was caused by allergy meds as it was from consumption of alcoholic beverages.  Again the failures were found over several weeks. You don't know what the kid was thinking, nor do I.  What we do know is that prior to this, he had never been arrested or charged with a crime. No he is 16 and just got his license.

Who he is had absolutely no impact on this.  To be honest, he isn't from some uber rich family. His extended family has been in the area for decades and own a local business.  They aren't the Ewings with oil wells out back.

I agree that there have to be consequences, but keep in mind that this is not an intent based crime.  At its core, this was an accident that was caused by reckless conduct. It was tragic and avoidable, but the kid didn't head home thinking he would kill someone on the way.

Manslaughter is an intent free crime. No one ever said he had intent. That has been repeated here several times. He committed manslaughter, He killed two people due operating a motor vehicle in an unsafe reckless manner. That is manslaughter. Not really sure who or what you are addressing in the last paragraph. 

Then: He committed manslaughter twice, and let him have the consequences like the rest of us. Its likely not going to happen. He will likely get rehab and probation, but he probably was at least subconsciously aware of that before this even happened. He is who he is and he will likely never see any consequence from this other than mild shunning from the AU community.

From the OP:

The teen’s bond was first revoked in December 2019 after got two speeding tickets and one reckless driving citation seven months after the deadly crash. He is still facing another possible bond revocation.

Edited May 1, 2021 by DKW 86

[AU9377 4,930]

On 5/1/2021 at 8:25 AM, DKW 86 said:

Manslaughter is an intent free crime. No one ever said he had intent. That has been repeated here several times. He committed manslaughter, He killed two people due operating a motor vehicle in an unsafe reckless manner. That is manslaughter. Not really sure who or what you are addressing in the last paragraph. 

Then: He committed manslaughter twice, and let him have the consequences like the rest of us. Its likely not going to happen. He will likely get rehab and probation, but he probably was at least subconsciously aware of that before this even happened. He is who he is and he will likely never see any consequence from this other than mild shunning from the AU community.

From the OP:

The teen’s bond was first revoked in December 2019 after got two speeding tickets and one reckless driving citation seven months after the deadly crash. He is still facing another possible bond revocation.

We don't enhance someone's charge based on them being "probably subconsciously aware" of something.  The judge's point, which he made clear, was that the state has a youthful offender statute and that this defendant checked every box when it came to his qualifications under the statute.  Prior to the application of that statute, he was being charged as an adult.

[DKW 86 7,423]

16 hours ago, AU9377 said:

We don't enhance someone's charge based on them being "probably subconsciously aware" of something.  The judge's point, which he made clear, was that the state has a youthful offender statute and that this defendant checked every box when it came to his qualifications under the statute.  Prior to the application of that statute, he was being charged as an adult.

And that doesnt change my point either. He got away with it and as you can see, he was at some level aware he was going to from the beginning. He proceeded to not modify his behavior at all,. He is still getting ctied for speeding and reckless driving. And if he kills some more, he will get YO again and do no time then as well.

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by DKW 86