Flag desecration ban passes House

[SLAG-91 1,483]

Link to article

Personally, while I think anyone who would burn a flag (outside of its proper disposal function) is scum and just seeking attention, I don't think this should become a constitutional amendment.

[TexasTiger 13,016]

Link to article

Personally, while I think anyone who would burn a flag (outside of its proper disposal function) is scum and just seeking attention, I don't think this should become a constitutional amendment.

165332[/snapback]

A country that doesn't fear freedom would not pass an ammendment like this.

[SLAG-91 1,483]

I don't think it's going to get the 2/3 majority needed to pass the Senate, so it'll likely be a moot point...and even if that happened, I don't see 38 state legislatures ratifying it.

[TexasTiger 13,016]

I don't think it's going to get the 2/3 majority needed to pass the Senate, so it'll likely be a moot point...and even if that happened, I don't see 38 state legislatures ratifying it.

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If they get the 2/3rds of the Senate to go along, and they are closer than ever to that, it will be used as a political battering ram like gay marriage.

What would the message be to the world-- that the land of the free has to alter its Constitution to silent this form of dissent?

[Tiger in Spain 0]

I don't think it should be an amendment to the constitiution, but I also believe that if someone hates America enough to burn my flag should get out. Afterall, if we as Americans cannot respect our own symbolism, how can we expect others in the world to? That is the liberal idiom today right, what the world thinks of us? In my humble opinion, it's not freedom of speech in this instance, it's flat out disrespect. The flag didn't do anything, and burning it accomplishes nothing other than increasing the polarization already present in the country. If these "free speech" activists with zippos want to really get their point across, why not do something that might actually make a difference. That would take effort on their part, so we know them doing something constructive won't ever happen.

Hypocrisy is such an intriguing trait. For the most part, these flagburning nitwits are the idiots who insist that Americans handle the Koran with satin gloves in the face of our terrorist enemies. What would they say if an American soldier burned a Koran? I doubt they would extend freedom of speech to cover him. Same thing though. These are the same pinheads that refuse to allow school students the same freedom of speech they consider flag burning to be by allowing them to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. If a group of kids want to recite the pledge or say a prayer before a school sporting event, they aren't met with applause by these activists praising their right to speak freely, they are met with lawsuits to stifle their freedom to speech.

That being said, I should be excused if I use my Constitutionally protected right to free speech when I say that I will beat the living hell out of anybody I see burning the symbol of freedom that my brothers and sisters in arms and I fought for. Fair is fair, right?

[TitanTiger 20,510]

You know, I hate when a bunch of dumb rednecks in white sheets stand up in public shouting "White Power", but I believe they have a right to do it. This is a bad amendment.

[Tiger in Spain 0]

Agreed, its a personal choice to want to burn ones nations flag and government can't dictate pride or patriotism. It's got to be within the person.

To me I see these people that choose to do so as suffering from a lack of sophistication. What do they do at the anti-American rallies in other countries? They burn our flag. You know why the burn our flag? Because to them the flag means something - it's the symbol of our freedom, vitality, and our country. The flag burners in the states don't see it as anything other than a piece of cloth. To me though, the flag isn't a piece of cloth.....it's the history of my people. I was taught pride of country in school and we seem to have gotten away from that. If we could go back to teaching kids that America is not the bad place some make it out to be, maybe we could stop hating this great country so much.

[TitanTiger 20,510]

Think of it in these terms: what if, God forbid, the country took a serious hard turn for the worst. What if somehow over time our government became truly oppressive and dictatorial and started persecuting people for religious beliefs or something like that? Frankly in a situation like that, I could see myself burning the flag as an act of civil disobedience and defiance against what had become a tyrannical state.

I know it may not be likely or something we think would happen, but you have to consider such things. While I understand (and feel myself) the emotions and feelings the Stars and Stripes evokes, in the end it is a piece of cloth representing a country. It isn't a person. It isn't on the level of my relationship with Christ. It is a symbol. And we have to be mature enough to let people who view that symbol different say their piece. We don't have to listen, but they have the right to express it.

[TitanTiger 20,510]

Well, I wrote both of my senators asking them to vote against this amendment. I also wrote to chastise my congresswoman for voting in favor of it in the House. The scary thing is that it actually has a chance of passing. The vote was like 64-36 or something like that the last time it was voted on in the mid to late 90s. They only need three more votes to get it through.

As much as I don't like people to burn the flag, banning them from doing so is wrongheaded and weakens rather than strengthen the things that make this country great.

[Piglet 0]

This isn't on my top 1000 list of issues in desperate need of attention from our fearless lawmakers. It's not as if anyone I know is even thinking about burning a flag anytime soon. And if some jerk someplace else wants to expose himself as a jerk in public and it's his flag, it's his business not mine.

I expect they're trying to get everyone yakking about flag burning while they quietly vote themselves a pay raise or something behind our backs. Keep your eye on the pea, 'cause they're playing the shell game again.

[TitanTiger 20,510]

This isn't on my top 1000 list of issues in desperate need of attention from our fearless lawmakers.  It's not as if anyone I know is even thinking about burning a flag anytime soon.  And if some jerk someplace else wants to expose himself as a jerk in public and it's his flag, it's his business not mine.

I expect they're trying to get everyone yakking about flag burning while they quietly vote themselves a pay raise or something behind our backs.  Keep your eye on the pea, 'cause they're playing the shell game again.

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I tend to have a cynical view of this as well. There may be a few well-meaning people pushing this because they really believe in it, but I think some of the GOP leadership sees a potential wedge issue to use against Democrats that vote against it in the 2006 midterm elections.

[ssl73 0]

...I think some of the GOP leadership sees a potential wedge issue to use against Democrats that vote against it in the 2006 midterm elections.

165395[/snapback]

BINGO!

The war in Iraq, al-Quaida and Bin Laden, the deficit, social security these are not the REAL issues facing America. I think as long as it is illegal to burn the flag, we keep steroids out of baseball, and gays are not allowed to marry the rest will take care of itself. JMHO.

[TexasTiger 13,016]

This isn't on my top 1000 list of issues in desperate need of attention from our fearless lawmakers.  It's not as if anyone I know is even thinking about burning a flag anytime soon.  And if some jerk someplace else wants to expose himself as a jerk in public and it's his flag, it's his business not mine.

I expect they're trying to get everyone yakking about flag burning while they quietly vote themselves a pay raise or something behind our backs.  Keep your eye on the pea, 'cause they're playing the shell game again.

165394[/snapback]

I tend to have a cynical view of this as well. There may be a few well-meaning people pushing this because they really believe in it, but I think some of the GOP leadership sees a potential wedge issue to use against Democrats that vote against it in the 2006 midterm elections.

165395[/snapback]

It's the gay marriage of 2006.

[MDM4AU 336]

As much as I would like to beat-down the people that are so unable to express themselves adequately enough that they have to burn the symbol of the country that gives them the right to do such a thing, they have to right to do this and we don't need an amendment regarding this.

Let the miscreants show how absolutely pathetic they really are.

And, like Titan, I think this is a wedge issue...

[TexasTiger 13,016]

For the most part, these flagburning nitwits are the idiots who insist that Americans handle the Koran with satin gloves in the face of our terrorist enemies. What would they say if an American soldier burned a Koran? I doubt they would extend freedom of speech to cover him. Same thing though. These are the same pinheads that refuse to allow school students the same freedom of speech they consider flag burning to be by allowing them to recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

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"...these flagburning nitwits..."

You seem to think that you've identified such people as a discernable group with a certain set of views, and they exist in some sort of definable, critical mass. How many flag burners do we actually have in a given year? None of my "liberal" friends would even consider burning a flag. You seem to have created your fantasy liberal that you attach all your stereotypes to. Guess its easy to hate people when you can define them any way you want.

[Tiger in Spain 0]

"...these flagburning nitwits..."

You seem to think that you've identified such people as a discernable group with a certain set of views, and they exist in some sort of definable, critical mass.  How many flag burners do we actually have in a given year?  None of my "liberal" friends would even consider burning a flag.  You seem to have created your fantasy liberal that you attach all your stereotypes to.  Guess its easy to hate people when you can define them any way you want.

165511[/snapback]

I must be going blind. For the life of me, I can't see the word liberal in anything of mine you quoted above. Again, you make a haphazard attempt at putting words into my mouth. The group of people I call "flagburning nitwits" are readily available at any gathering where capitalism or Americanism is protested. While flag burning in this country is not at an epidemic level, I still fail to see the purpose it serves. And, TexasTiger, I'll repeat myself for your benefit....I don't think a constitutional amendment making it illegal is the right thing to do. I think the act is infantile, inmature, and shows a tremendous lack of respect for the country, but it shouldn't be outlawed.

The hypocrisy I pointed out is the rabid opposition to students pledging allegiance to something that others find burning a perfectly acceptable act. Freedom of speech is a two way street. If someone is going to go harping on about free speech, they should be willing to afford others that same right.

[Tiger Al 0]

I tend to have a cynical view of this as well.  There may be a few well-meaning people pushing this because they really believe in it, but I think some of the GOP leadership sees a potential wedge issue to use against Democrats that vote against it in the 2006 midterm elections.

165395[/snapback]

I second ssl's motion...Double BINGO.

[TexasTiger 13,016]

"...these flagburning nitwits..."

...tremendous lack of respect for the country, but it shouldn't be outlawed.

The hypocrisy I pointed out is the rabid opposition to students pledging allegiance to something that others find burning a perfectly acceptable act. Freedom of speech is a two way street. If someone is going to go harping on about free speech, they should be willing to afford others that same right.

Not really an argument I care to get into, but students aren't prohibited from saying the pledge or from praying in school, for that matter. No one has ever stopped me from praying anywhere at anytime. What has been deemed unconstitutional is the arm of the state, which happens to include teachers in public schools, requiring the students to say the pledge or a prayer.

[Tiger in Spain 0]

I believe the ACLU would strongly disagree with you.

[TexasTiger 13,016]

I believe the ACLU would strongly disagree with you.

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You "believe" alot of things.

[Tiger Al 0]

I believe the ACLU would strongly disagree with you.

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Then you are unaware of both the law and the ACLU's view of it.

[WarTim 3,457]

The aclu is not a socialist group. To the contrarty, they are communist.

p.s. Burn a United States Flag in front of me..... I DARE you.

[Tigermike 3,053]

p.s. Burn a United States Flag in front of me..... I DARE you.

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Tim, you reminded me of something I heard years ago.

Your freedom ends where my nose begins.

[TitanTiger 20,510]

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

[WarTim 3,457]

p.s. Burn a United States Flag in front of me..... I DARE you.

165604[/snapback]

Tim, you reminded me of something I heard years ago.

Your freedom ends where my nose begins.

165640[/snapback]

Anyone that burns the Flag of the Country that my grandfather DIED protecting, as I said.....Burn it in front of me at your peril. Freedom has a price. So does freedom of speech. Burning the American Flag is an act of cowardice and/or stupidity. It accomplishes nothing. Nothing, that is, unless you burn it in front of me.