Conservative Resistance to Vaccination Started with Reagan

[CoffeeTiger 5,133]

https://www.al.com/news/2021/07/whitmire-vaccine-stubbornness-didnt-come-from-nowhere.html

A little more than 40 years ago, Ronald Reagan stood on the capitol steps to give his first inaugural address. It was a speech he wrote himself. About 2,400 words long, it lasted precisely 20 minutes, but one line has echoed ever since.

“In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.”

 

That single sentence has served as a Republican mantra, kept alive through repetition by lesser imitators.This week, in the U.S. Senate, Tommy Tuberville gave it his go, arguing against taxes and spending, as is the Republican way when they aren't the ones doing the taxing and spending.

 

“Growing up, look at the things that we as government have taken control of and you name me one thing that’s been prosperous,” Tuberville said. “I thought long and hard, and it doesn’t work.”

 

Not as neat or eloquent as the source material, but perhaps a little more downhome, especially the way Tuberville pronounces “government” like it has the letter ‘B’ in it.

 

The only problem is, it just isn’t true. Tuberville must not have thought all that long or all that hard.

 

“Name me one thing …”

 

Interstate highways

 

While I get frustrated at those orange cones along I-65 and the signs saying “speeding fines doubled when workers are present” when there aren’t any workers, our national highway system would not exist but for the federal government.

 

And if you think people would prefer a private system paid for with tolls, ask anyone in Mobile how they feel about an I-10 toll bridge proposal.

 

This web of speedy roadways connecting all of our major cities is not all that bad.

 

Food safety

 

Unless you have a serious food allergy, none of us can remember when food was a threat to public health. And if you do have a food allergy, you can find the warnings you need right there on the packaging. It wasn’t always like this, but nowadays the fastest way to kill yourself with food is to eat too much of it. For that, we can thank the Department of Agriculture and the Food and Drug Administration.

 

Social Security & Medicare

 

Want to find socialism in America? A good place to start might be with something that’s got “social” in the name — a retirement program that keeps millions of old people from starving to death. Medicare, too.

 

Despite these programs taking up more of the national budget than national defense, veteran politicians don’t touch them because people like them. Want to see what happens to someone who tries? Google “Rep. Dan Rostenkowski” & “Assaulted by Old People.” It gets ugly fast.

 

The United States Armed Forces

Same as above. Go ahead, Tommy. Say something bad. I dare you.

 

Space exploration

 

We put men in capsules, shot them to the moon, where they planted an American flag on the surface and did a little sightseeing, and then brought them home again without them dying. This is still an amazing achievement.And before you say, “Yeah, well, what have we done since …” remember you represent Huntsville, and we’ve done a lot. We have five remote control cars on Mars right now.

 

Disease control and medical research

 

Before it got politicized and disrupted in the pandemic, the Center for Disease Control and Prevention was a global authority for public health. It helped identify deadly diseases and developed strategies for fighting them.

 

Likewise, the National Institutes of Health have developed treatments and vaccines for deadly diseases back when people still associated “corona” with Mexican beer.

 

It’s been so long since infectious disease was a ubiquitous threat to public health that many of us forgot — or never even learned — that disease control was a legitimate function of government.

 

The cost of cynicism

 

These are just a few examples. There are more. You just have to think — not Tommy-Tuberville-think, but really think — to see them. Because good government, when it works, is invisible. And it’s boring. You don’t notice it any more than the miles of smooth pavement on an interstate highway. It’s only the potholes that grab our attention.

 

And it’s easy for folks like Tuberville to point to the potholes and convince everybody that’s all there is.

 

That might be good politics, but it has a cost. It makes us cynical.

 

I’ve spent the last week doing something I’d sworn I was done with — I’ve implored Alabamians to get vaccinated. I’ve done it because I want to put the virus behind us. I’ve done it because I don’t want anyone in Alabama, no matter who you are, to get sick or to die.

 

The email I’ve received in response leads me to expect a lot of people will get sick and die.

 

Tuberville has been one of the few Alabama elected officials to urge people to get the coronavirus vaccine. He deserves credit for that, even though this should be a no-brainer. Look through his Twitter feed and you’ll see the blowback he received, mostly from his own supporters. I’m sure it was a shock.

 

But he needs to understand where it’s coming from. Follow that stream back to its source and it goes back to leaders — like him.

 

We have cultivated a political culture so cynical that some folks will not let themselves believe someone from the government would ever do anything to help them, certainly not someone from the opposite party.

 

That cynicism didn’t come out of nowhere. It has been nurtured for a very long time.

 

What we need right now isn’t cynicism or tired old tropes. What we need right now is hope.

What we need right now are leaders who will say something new.

 

Ronald Reagan said the nine most terrifying words in the English language are “I’m from the government and I’m here to help.”

 

But what happens when it gets turned into political dogma?

 

What happens when people really need help but whole generations have been conditioned to treat it like poison?

 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by CoffeeTiger

[jj3jordan 2,056]

Do you really think conservatives make their decisions on important things like vaccinations based on what the president says? 

[CoffeeTiger 5,133]

1 minute ago, jj3jordan said:

Do you really think conservatives make their decisions on important things like vaccinations based on what the president says? 

Wasn't what the article was saying. It's pointing out that since Reagan, a core part of Republican propaganda has been to create a distrust and level of hatred of the  Federal Government. 

American Conservativism is a very big paradox: 

Believe Federal government programs are bad and always mismanaged, but yet benefit every day from the same federal programs you despise. 

Hate anything and everything socialist, while drawing social security and being a big supporter of the U.S. military, whose best recruiting tool is free/low cost education, healthcare, and retirement. 

Believing that liberals are all lazy and refuse to work and leech off the federal system, while the U.S. government runs off of the massive economies of liberal states and cities, while having to subsidize and take care of the conservative states that can't pay for all the services they use. 

Believing Government should stay out of peoples lives, until someone gay wants to get married, or doesn't want to be forced to pray at school, or wants to get an abortion...THEN the government must get involved to stop people from sinning against the Bible. 

 

 

[AUFAN78 3,911]

4 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

https://www.al.com/news/2021/07/whitmire-vaccine-stubbornness-didnt-come-from-nowhere.html

A little more than 40 years ago, Ronald Reagan stood on the capitol steps to give his first inaugural address. It was a speech he wrote himself. About 2,400 words long, it lasted precisely 20 minutes, but one line has echoed ever since.

“In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.”

 

That single sentence has served as a Republican mantra, kept alive through repetition by lesser imitators.This week, in the U.S. Senate, Tommy Tuberville gave it his go, arguing against taxes and spending, as is the Republican way when they aren't the ones doing the taxing and spending.

 

“Growing up, look at the things that we as government have taken control of and you name me one thing that’s been prosperous,” Tuberville said. “I thought long and hard, and it doesn’t work.”

 

Not as neat or eloquent as the source material, but perhaps a little more downhome, especially the way Tuberville pronounces “government” like it has the letter ‘B’ in it.

 

The only problem is, it just isn’t true. Tuberville must not have thought all that long or all that hard.

 

“Name me one thing …”

 

Interstate highways

 

While I get frustrated at those orange cones along I-65 and the signs saying “speeding fines doubled when workers are present” when there aren’t any workers, our national highway system would not exist but for the federal government.

 

And if you think people would prefer a private system paid for with tolls, ask anyone in Mobile how they feel about an I-10 toll bridge proposal.

 

This web of speedy roadways connecting all of our major cities is not all that bad.

 

Food safety

 

Unless you have a serious food allergy, none of us can remember when food was a threat to public health. And if you do have a food allergy, you can find the warnings you need right there on the packaging. It wasn’t always like this, but nowadays the fastest way to kill yourself with food is to eat too much of it. For that, we can thank the Department of Agriculture and the Food and Drug Administration.

 

Social Security & Medicare

 

Want to find socialism in America? A good place to start might be with something that’s got “social” in the name — a retirement program that keeps millions of old people from starving to death. Medicare, too.

 

Despite these programs taking up more of the national budget than national defense, veteran politicians don’t touch them because people like them. Want to see what happens to someone who tries? Google “Rep. Dan Rostenkowski” & “Assaulted by Old People.” It gets ugly fast.

 

The United States Armed Forces

Same as above. Go ahead, Tommy. Say something bad. I dare you.

 

Space exploration

 

We put men in capsules, shot them to the moon, where they planted an American flag on the surface and did a little sightseeing, and then brought them home again without them dying. This is still an amazing achievement.And before you say, “Yeah, well, what have we done since …” remember you represent Huntsville, and we’ve done a lot. We have five remote control cars on Mars right now.

 

Disease control and medical research

 

Before it got politicized and disrupted in the pandemic, the Center for Disease Control and Prevention was a global authority for public health. It helped identify deadly diseases and developed strategies for fighting them.

 

Likewise, the National Institutes of Health have developed treatments and vaccines for deadly diseases back when people still associated “corona” with Mexican beer.

 

It’s been so long since infectious disease was a ubiquitous threat to public health that many of us forgot — or never even learned — that disease control was a legitimate function of government.

 

The cost of cynicism

 

These are just a few examples. There are more. You just have to think — not Tommy-Tuberville-think, but really think — to see them. Because good government, when it works, is invisible. And it’s boring. You don’t notice it any more than the miles of smooth pavement on an interstate highway. It’s only the potholes that grab our attention.

 

And it’s easy for folks like Tuberville to point to the potholes and convince everybody that’s all there is.

 

That might be good politics, but it has a cost. It makes us cynical.

 

I’ve spent the last week doing something I’d sworn I was done with — I’ve implored Alabamians to get vaccinated. I’ve done it because I want to put the virus behind us. I’ve done it because I don’t want anyone in Alabama, no matter who you are, to get sick or to die.

 

The email I’ve received in response leads me to expect a lot of people will get sick and die.

 

Tuberville has been one of the few Alabama elected officials to urge people to get the coronavirus vaccine. He deserves credit for that, even though this should be a no-brainer. Look through his Twitter feed and you’ll see the blowback he received, mostly from his own supporters. I’m sure it was a shock.

 

But he needs to understand where it’s coming from. Follow that stream back to its source and it goes back to leaders — like him.

 

We have cultivated a political culture so cynical that some folks will not let themselves believe someone from the government would ever do anything to help them, certainly not someone from the opposite party.

 

That cynicism didn’t come out of nowhere. It has been nurtured for a very long time.

 

What we need right now isn’t cynicism or tired old tropes. What we need right now is hope.

What we need right now are leaders who will say something new.

 

Ronald Reagan said the nine most terrifying words in the English language are “I’m from the government and I’m here to help.”

 

But what happens when it gets turned into political dogma?

 

What happens when people really need help but whole generations have been conditioned to treat it like poison?

 

 

 

All of the countries black and brown people resisting the vaccine are conservatives? Do tell.

[CoffeeTiger 5,133]

15 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

All of the countries black and brown people resisting the vaccine are conservatives? Do tell.

Christian Conservatives don't exactly make it a secret that they are anti-vaccine. Go follow any Republican or Conservative figurehead or news source that talks about vaccines and read all the comments their supporters have to say about it. Go to any online Conservative community, go to your local Republican club, go to most any Church on Sunday and ask about vaccines and see what they say. 

conservative Christians will tell you very loudly and proudly that they are against it. Listen to the CPAC conference just a week or so ago, half of it was Republicans spreading anti-vaccine rhetoric. A guy I went to school with posted a facebook post just last night talking about how dangerous and deadly the Covid vaccine is. It got dozens of upvotes and affirming comments from his white conservative, Christian followers. One woman did try to offer up more factual information but just got ignored or told that she's wrong.  

Every single poll done on the subject indicates that white conservatives are the most vaccine hesitant groups in America. 

 

 

 

[jj3jordan 2,056]

18 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Wasn't what the article was saying. It's pointing out that since Reagan, a core part of Republican propaganda has been to create a distrust and level of hatred of the  Federal Government. 

American Conservativism is a very big paradox: 

Believe Federal government programs are bad and always mismanaged, but yet benefit every day from the same federal programs you despise. 

Hate anything and everything socialist, while drawing social security and being a big supporter of the U.S. military, whose best recruiting tool is free/low cost education, healthcare, and retirement. 

Believing that liberals are all lazy and refuse to work and leech off the federal system, while the U.S. government runs off of the massive economies of liberal states and cities, while having to subsidize and take care of the conservative states that can't pay for all the services they use. 

Believing Government should stay out of peoples lives, until someone gay wants to get married, or doesn't want to be forced to pray at school, or wants to get an abortion...THEN the government must get involved to stop people from sinning against the Bible. 

 

 

Mistrust of the government started way before Reagan.

[AUFAN78 3,911]

3 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Christian Conservatives don't exactly make it a secret that they are anti-vaccine. Go follow any Republican or Conservative figurehead or news source that talks about vaccines and read all the comments their supporters have to say about it. Go to any online Conservative community, go to your local Republican club, go to most any Church on Sunday and ask about vaccines and see what they say. 

conservative Christians will tell you very loudly and proudly that they are against it. Listen to the CPAC conference just a week or so ago, half of it was Republicans spreading anti-vaccine rhetoric. A guy I went to school with posted a facebook post just last night talking about how dangerous and deadly the Covid vaccine is. It got dozens of upvotes and affirming comments from his white conservative, Christian followers. One woman did try to offer up more factual information but just got ignored or told that she's wrong.  

Every single poll done on the subject indicates that white conservatives are the most vaccine hesitant groups in America. 

 

 

 

I think you listen to too much propaganda. My entire small group, their spouses and children have been vaccinated. Real world stuff man, not WAPO, CNN, etc.

Edited July 22, 2021 by AUFAN78

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

3 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

conservative Christians will tell you very loudly and proudly that they are against it. Listen to the CPAC conference just a week or so ago, half of it was Republicans spreading anti-vaccine rhetoric. A guy I went to school with posted a facebook post just last night talking about how dangerous and deadly the Covid vaccine is. It got dozens of upvotes and affirming comments from his white conservative, Christian followers. One woman did try to offer up more factual information but just got ignored or told that she's wrong.  

 

Not all “conservative Christians” by any stretch. Of course your methodology in messaging is lumping this particular group into one fish pond.

Your continued references to your facebook experiences and “friends” is interesting. Meaningless to most but interesting. 

[homersapien 11,388]

23 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Not all “conservative Christians” by any stretch. Of course your methodology in messaging is lumping this particular group into one fish pond.

Your continued references to your facebook experiences and “friends” is interesting. Meaningless to most but interesting. 

Actually, his "method in messaging" reflects polling statistics that support his statements, generally speaking.  

 

[AUFAN78 3,911]

32 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Not all “conservative Christians” by any stretch. Of course your methodology in messaging is lumping this particular group into one fish pond.

Your continued references to your facebook experiences and “friends” is interesting. Meaningless to most but interesting. 

Out of likes, but agree.

[AUFAN78 3,911]

5 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Actually, his "method in messaging" reflects polling statistics that support his statements, generally speaking.  

 

Polling. 

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

9 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Actually, his "method in messaging" reflects polling statistics that support his statements, generally speaking.  

 

And I understand that but it is not what he said. I can understand “some”, or “many”. Is it “most”? I don’t think so.
 

Will say I am pro vaccination and extremely frustrated with some folks close to me. Seeing this stuff rebound close to home. Friends, neighbors….with COVID. Have niece working to become an NP visiting us this week. She is working weekends at Urgent Care in B’ham. According her most patients are a steady stream with COVID right now.

 

[aubiefifty 16,811]

both sides have attack machines solely to discredit the other sides talking points. it too often bites us in the ass. let someone who could care less about his brothers and sisters refuse to get the vaccine and get it and pass it on to others and someone dies from it to me that is just plain ol murder. my question is why do people think so less of their fellow man? if you realize you might save a life why not step up? this crap of letting old people die and thinning out the herd is bull****. you are playing lossely with peoples lives. you get reckless in a car and kill someone it is murder. same way with guns. you get reckless with guns and kill someone it is murder. covid is not and has never been political to me. it is simply about surviving. i will probably get a flu or pneumonia as i have been told it also helps strengthen the covid vaccine. i will be checking on that one soon to see if it is real or bull. but with blue cross and  medicare  the shots are free. have you heard anything on this?

[homersapien 11,388]

On 7/22/2021 at 2:02 PM, SaltyTiger said:

And I understand that but it is not what he said. I can understand “some”, or “many”. Is it “most”? I don’t think so.

 

Actually, many studies support "most" than not:

https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/unvaccinated-americans-whiter-more-republican-vaccinated

Only 14% of Americans say they will definitely not get vaccinated. But this group is 69% white, compared with 7% Black and 12% Hispanic. Republicans make up 58% of this group, while Democrats account for 18%.

Even the polls who don't literally support "most" tend to be very close to 50%.

And if you focus only on those people who "have no intention" of getting the vaccine, instead of simply the ones who are unvaccinated,  it's in the 40's:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/as-more-americans-get-vaccinated-41-of-republicans-still-refuse-covid-19-shots

 

So, pedantic arguments aside, one can easily say that Republicans constitute "most" of the problem with unvaccinated Americans.  As Coffee said:

"Every single poll done on the subject indicates that white conservatives are the most vaccine hesitant groups in America."

 

Edited July 23, 2021 by homersapien

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Every single poll done on the subject indicates that white conservatives are the most vaccine hesitant groups in America.: 

 

And I did not dispute that

[TitanTiger 20,499]

If you want to take an issue with a poll, that's reasonable to do.  Just point out the specific flaws in it - be it the polling sample, the polling statistical model, the wording of the questions, the order of the questions, etc.  

But if you just want to constantly dismiss "polling," particularly when the poll results say things you don't like, then you don't belong on a forum where grown ups discuss weighty matters.  

There's a difference.

[aubiefifty 16,811]

3 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

If you want to take an issue with a poll, that's reasonable to do.  Just point out the specific flaws in it - be it the polling sample, the polling statistical model, the wording of the questions, the order of the questions, etc.  

But if you just want to constantly dismiss "polling," particularly when the poll results say things you don't like, then you don't belong on a forum where grown ups discuss weighty matters.  

There's a difference.

i know i do not belong here but if i did not have somewhere to vent on occasion i would lose what little bit of my mind i have left.

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

4 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

If you want to take an issue with a poll, that's reasonable to do.  Just point out the specific flaws in it - be it the polling sample, the polling statistical model, the wording of the questions, the order of the questions, etc.  

But if you just want to constantly dismiss "polling," particularly when the poll results say things you don't like, then you don't belong on a forum where grown ups discuss weighty matters.  

There's a difference.

And I appreciate Homer posting a poll.

[homersapien 11,388]

In Alabama and Louisiana, partisan opposition to vaccine surges alongside Delta variant

Many people are turning down Covid vaccines because they are angry that President Donald Trump lost the election and sick of Democrats thinking they know what’s best.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/24/covid-vaccine-push-rural-500717

 

 

[SaturdayGT 719]

On 7/25/2021 at 2:08 PM, homersapien said:

In Alabama and Louisiana, partisan opposition to vaccine surges alongside Delta variant

Many people are turning down Covid vaccines because they are angry that President Donald Trump lost the election and sick of Democrats thinking they know what’s best.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/24/covid-vaccine-push-rural-500717

 

 

Really??...Homer, ill never doubt your IQ...I honestly feel your articals far exceed  your experience outside amongst actual people.....There's a ton of people who are no Trump supporters, and are hesitant to get the vaccine. ...From my experience, most do not trust the Government push. ...Im actually with them. ...I think we are in an age where we now question everything, and rely on gut feelings. ..its a good thing for America!...Greenday had a song called "Warning"...bet ya loved it back in the day,...kinda rings true today!

[CoffeeTiger 5,133]

11 hours ago, SaturdayGT said:

Really??...Homer, ill never doubt your IQ...I honestly feel your articals far exceed  your experience outside amongst actual people.....There's a ton of people who are no Trump supporters, and are hesitant to get the vaccine. ...From my experience, most do not trust the Government push. ...Im actually with them. ...I think we are in an age where we now question everything, and rely on gut feelings. ..its a good thing for America!...Greenday had a song called "Warning"...bet ya loved it back in the day,...kinda rings true today!

https://www.al.com/news/2021/07/alabama-doctors-fighting-politicization-of-covid-vaccines-as-cases-skyrocket.html

Another new article where experts are confirming that most vaccine skepticism they see are coming from Conservatives who are listening to vaccine conspiracies on right wing "news" sources. Last week it was reported that 100% of Democrats in Congress said they had the vaccine, while only 54% of Republicans would say they've taken it. 

Conservatives keep claiming that "it has nothing to do with politics. it's all just intelligent people who are doing their own research and not trusting everything the government tells them" , But I don't think reality is supporting that theory very well. 

 

 

 

[SaturdayGT 719]

49 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

https://www.al.com/news/2021/07/alabama-doctors-fighting-politicization-of-covid-vaccines-as-cases-skyrocket.html

Another new article where experts are confirming that most vaccine skepticism they see are coming from Conservatives who are listening to vaccine conspiracies on right wing "news" sources. Last week it was reported that 100% of Democrats in Congress said they had the vaccine, while only 54% of Republicans would say they've taken it. 

Conservatives keep claiming that "it has nothing to do with politics. it's all just intelligent people who are doing their own research and not trusting everything the government tells them" , But I don't think reality is supporting that theory very well. 

 

 

 

  That may be true for the political types, I just do not believe politics is the only reason people are not getting vaccinated. ...I cant see why it would be unreasonable for people to have legitimate concerns with long term effects. ..I mean how often do you see lawyer commercials pushing class action lawsuits from medicines all over TV? There are still a lot of unknowns about the vaccines, and its perfectly reasonable for people to be hesitant for that alone. I think a good 80% of the unvaccinated will be vaccinated within a month of the FDA approving it.  

[CoffeeTiger 5,133]

10 minutes ago, SaturdayGT said:

  That may be true for the political types, I just do not believe politics is the only reason people are not getting vaccinated. ...I cant see why it would be unreasonable for people to have legitimate concerns with long term effects. ..

Are the concerns legitimate though? If a overwhelmingly vast majority of the medical and scientific community and experts are saying the vaccines are safe and they recommend getting them, I don't see where all these "legitimate" concerns and fears are coming from. 

Being scared of the unknown isn't a legitimate concern IMO when you have very real evidence of the affects that COVID can have on the body, it's not rational or smart to be more afraid of a made up scenario than of what dangers are actually existent in your face. 

 

 

[SaturdayGT 719]

8 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Are the concerns legitimate though? If a overwhelmingly vast majority of the medical and scientific community and experts are saying the vaccines are safe and they recommend getting them, I don't see where all these "legitimate" concerns and fears are coming from. 

Being scared of the unknown isn't a legitimate concern IMO when you have very real evidence of the affects that COVID can have on the body, it's not rational or smart to be more afraid of a made up scenario than of what dangers are actually existent in your face. 

 

 

Its definitely more legitimate than..."I republican man, must not vaccinate cuz Democrats want me to and my publican leaders say not to take it..." dont you think?

 

[CoffeeTiger 5,133]

1 minute ago, SaturdayGT said:

Its definitely more legitimate than..."I republican man, must not vaccinate cuz Democrats want me to and my publican leaders say not to take it..." dont you think?

 

They both result in the same outcome of more people not being vaccinated in the middle of the pandemic. 

 

Plus, all those commercials about lawsuits over medicine side effects are from drugs that were all fully approved by the FDA at one point or another, so I'm not sure why you think Full FDA approval is the Dam that a huge number of people are waiting to break before the go and get the vaccines. 

Everything in life carries risks and unknowns. Right now the risk of Covid is drastically higher than any risk of known side effects of the vaccine, and the vaccine was produced using similar methods as other vaccines that we've had for a long time and have not been known to cause long term problems.