Ongoing Trials in Ahmaud Arbery and Kyle Rittenhouse Cases.

[CoffeeTiger 5,198]

1 hour ago, DKW 86 said:

If the police did their jobs, there would not be a case here. 

To be frank, there isnt a "hero" in sight.

This has been my thought the whole time. Ultimately, this tragedy wouldn't have happened if the officers hadn't let teenage Rambo play out his big penis robocop fantasy out on a city street. 

 

 

 

 

[CoffeeTiger 5,198]

And shoutout to the Defense lawyer in the Arbery case who complained to the judge that too many "black pastors" (jessie jackson/al sharpton/etc) were coming to the trial and sitting with the family to sway the jury, and requested that they be barred from the courthouse. 

 

 

[AU9377 5,109]

10 hours ago, AUDub said:

Agreed. Can't say much for Binger's co-counsel but Binger himself weaved a pretty good narrative in closing. Didn't convince me at all but hey I'm not on that jury.

Think Binger is a skilled trial lawyer. Skill can only carry you so far when you're trying to turn chicken s*** into chicken salad. 

Yeah. I'd be worried were I the defense if the jury deliberates long and starts asking for clarifications. 

Yeah the big boy that was Binger's co-counsel was downright awful.

[AU9377 5,109]

2 hours ago, AUGunsmith said:

Oof tell me you don't know about guns without telling me you don't know about guns. 

Not an AK and 100% definitely not armor piercing. Not even penetrating like encorperated I'm most modern military ammo for better barrier defeating. 

Using the ammo or the gun selection in this for prosecution is 100% pandering to those who are not familiar or knowledgeable about firearms. 

 

After watching the entire trial, if a jury actually finds him guilty, it won't be from the facts if the case. 

 

 

It was smart. The prosecutor needs to focus on the weapon and that conversation, although I agree is being discussed out of context, is nonetheless a legitimate way to achieve that.

Yes... an AR-15 or whatever the hell it was.  FYI - I have plenty guns. I don't own an AR-15 and I don't believe anyone needs to own one. PERIOD.  I don't think encouraging the ownership of them is healthy. Is that the type of country you want to live in?  What do you need 30 rounds of ammunition for other than hunting humans?

I don't have time to hunt much, but at one time I did.  I own a .30 .30 WInchester, a .410 Browning and another Mossberg. I have two 12 gauge shotguns and a 20 gauge. I have a .38 special revolver that I inherited from my grandfather and a 9mm S&W.  I keep the 9mm  at the office just in case, but I certainly don't carry it around as though I am scared to walk down the street.

I have lived in Chicago, New Orleans, and Atlanta.  I lived in Switzerland for 6 months on two different occasions.  I currently live on a few hundred acres, which is why it makes sense to keep the larger rifles and shot guns at the house.  More guns in our cities won't make them safer.  If it would, I would argue for that, but the truth is that they don't.

[AUGunsmith 666]

15 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

It was smart. The prosecutor needs to focus on the weapon and that conversation, although I agree is being discussed out of context, is nonetheless a legitimate way to achieve that.

Yes... an AR-15 or whatever the hell it was.  FYI - I have plenty guns. I don't own an AR-15 and I don't believe anyone needs to own one. PERIOD.  I don't think encouraging the ownership of them is healthy. Is that the type of country you want to live in?  What do you need 30 rounds of ammunition for other than hunting humans?

I don't have time to hunt much, but at one time I did.  I own a .30 .30 WInchester, a .410 Browning and another Mossberg. I have two 12 gauge shotguns and a 20 gauge. I have a .38 special revolver that I inherited from my grandfather and a 9mm S&W.  I keep the 9mm  at the office just in case, but I certainly don't carry it around as though I am scared to walk down the street.

I have lived in Chicago, New Orleans, and Atlanta.  I lived in Switzerland for 6 months on two different occasions.  I currently live on a few hundred acres, which is why it makes sense to keep the larger rifles and shot guns at the house.  More guns in our cities won't make them safer.  If it would, I would argue for that, but the truth is that they don't.

Well your anti gun tirade has nothing to do with anything I said. 

 

The gun in question doesn't matter one if it's an AK an AR a pistol a shotgun, ammo selection, fmj, hollow points, frangible, etc are all an attempt to move the goalposts. The only question needing to be asked is did Kyle have a good shoot in rosenbaum. 

 

Also, you'd ******* hate my gun room lmao. 

[CoffeeTiger 5,198]

26 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Yes... an AR-15 or whatever the hell it was.  FYI - I have plenty guns. I don't own an AR-15 and I don't believe anyone needs to own one. PERIOD.  I don't think encouraging the ownership of them is healthy. Is that the type of country you want to live in?  What do you need 30 rounds of ammunition for other than hunting humans?

Because the purpose IS to hunt down humans if/when the situation calls for it. 

There's an entire sub-culture of gun nuts who stock up these weapons for the inevitable (in their minds) moment they'll have to band together in a "citizen militia" and take down the tyrannical federal government like it's 1775. 

 

 

 

[AUDub 11,187]

And now we wait. 

[AU9377 5,109]

20 minutes ago, AUGunsmith said:

Well your anti gun tirade has nothing to do with anything I said. 

 

The gun in question doesn't matter one if it's an AK an AR a pistol a shotgun, ammo selection, fmj, hollow points, frangible, etc are all an attempt to move the goalposts. The only question needing to be asked is did Kyle have a good shoot in rosenbaum. 

 

Also, you'd ******* hate my gun room lmao. 

I don't say things like this much, but if you think my statement was an anti gun tirade, you are borderline illiterate. 

Edited November 16, 2021 by AU9377

[I_M4_AU 8,033]

12 hours ago, AU9377 said:

For the majority of Americans, a 17 year old running around showing off his new military style gun is just a bad look.

 

Ya gotta love Babylon Bee, but this is a really bad look to a majority of Americans.

[I_M4_AU 8,033]

3 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

If the police did their jobs, there would not be a case here. 

To be frank, there isnt a "hero" in sight.

In what why did the police not do their job?

[AUGunsmith 666]

27 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

I don't say things like this much, but if you think my statement was an anti gun tirade, you are borderline illiterate. 

If you don't think your statement was anti gun you're just ******* stupid. 

[AUGunsmith 666]

31 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Because the purpose IS to hunt down humans if/when the situation calls for it. 

There's an entire sub-culture of gun nuts who stock up these weapons for the inevitable (in their minds) moment they'll have to band together in a "citizen militia" and take down the tyrannical federal government like it's 1775. 

 

 

 

Well the entire purpose of the 2A was to shoot cops and other state officials. 

 

Too bad we got away from that

[I_M4_AU 8,033]

1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

This has been my thought the whole time. Ultimately, this tragedy wouldn't have happened if the officers hadn't let teenage Rambo play out his big penis robocop fantasy out on a city street. 

 

 

 

 

Let’s see, the police had limited resources and the Governor only called out 125 National Guard as it would seem too Trumpian to call out more.  *Fiery, but mostly peaceful protests* have been going on all summer and the way the police have been responding was the Baltimore way of *let them have space to vent* type of approach.

What ever the reaction by the police, obviously, was not enough. They even had an 8 P.M. curfew that was not enforced, but who would expect *peaceful* protestors to respect a curfew?

[The Freak 2,529]

1 hour ago, AU9377 said:

What do you need 30 rounds of ammunition for other than hunting humans?

I mean, it kinda came in handy for Kyle.

[CoffeeTiger 5,198]

14 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Let’s see, the police had limited resources and the Governor only called out 125 National Guard as it would seem too Trumpian to call out more.  *Fiery, but mostly peaceful protests* have been going on all summer and the way the police have been responding was the Baltimore way of *let them have space to vent* type of approach.

What ever the reaction by the police, obviously, was not enough. They even had an 8 P.M. curfew that was not enforced, but who would expect *peaceful* protestors to respect a curfew?

 

There's evidence of Kyle and his rifle walking right past a group of police officers and them thanking him for being there to do their jobs for them and then handing him water + when he shot all the people he tried to turn himself in to the police and the cops just waved him on and told him to go home. 

Absolute silliness and negligence by the police. It wasn't the evil ANTIFA protestors shooting and killing people that night. it was Kyle. 

 

[CoffeeTiger 5,198]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

 

Ya gotta love Babylon Bee, but this is a really bad look to a majority of Americans.

I liked the Bee ALOT more back when they actually focused on creative Christian satire that I could relate to. Once they sold out to a venture capitalist, they've  turned into a Republican political satire page that just regurgitates the same "Biden senile" "liberals crybaby's"  "Rittenhouse hero" "MSM bad" articles day by day. 

Should probably stop marketing themselves as "Christian Satire" as 90% of what they publish has nothing to do with Christians or Christianity, just right wing politics. 

Edited November 16, 2021 by CoffeeTiger

[DKW 86 7,475]

3 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

This has been my thought the whole time. Ultimately, this tragedy wouldn't have happened if the officers hadn't let teenage Rambo play out his big penis robocop fantasy out on a city street. 

to me that was the Part 3 in the fail.  

The cops shouldnt have shot, they should have protected the businesses. KR needs to get back home and put a Madden controller in his hand

[DKW 86 7,475]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

In what why did the police not do their job?

They stood down after causing the unrest that lead to the violence. 

[AU9377 5,109]

2 hours ago, AUGunsmith said:

If you don't think your statement was anti gun you're just ******* stupid. 

You think that it is "stupid" to not want to live in the kind of place that encourages everyone being armed with 30 rounds of firepower?  It is unnecessary and we can be better than that if we want to be.  You want to be more like Argentina and I want to be more like Australia.   That much is clear.

[AU9377 5,109]

2 hours ago, The Freak said:

I mean, it kinda came in handy for Kyle.

I did laugh when i read that.....  Seriously though, couldn't he have been just as protected without that being his weapon of choice?

[homersapien 11,488]

Kyle Rittenhouse Is No Hero

If a jury acquits him, it will not be a miscarriage of justice—but an acquittal does not make a foolish man a hero.

By David French

 

As the Kyle Rittenhouse trial comes to a close, two things are becoming clear at once. First, absolutely no one should be surprised if Rittenhouse is acquitted on the most serious charges against him. And second, regardless of the outcome of the trial, the Trumpist right is wrongly creating a folk hero out of Rittenhouse. For millions he’s become a positive symbol, a young man of action who stepped up when the police (allegedly) stepped aside.

The trial itself has not gone well for the prosecution, for reasons that relate to the nature of self-defense claims. Such claims are not assessed by means of sweeping inquiries into the wisdom of the actions that put the shooter into a dangerous place in a dangerous time. Instead, they produce a narrow inquiry into the events immediately preceding the shooting. The law allows even a foolish man to defend himself, even if his own foolishness put him in harm’s way.

And so although the combination of video and testimonial evidence shows a confused and isolated 17-year-old carrying an adult weapon in a dangerous place, it also shows that he was chased by his first victim and attacked with a skateboard by his second victim, and that he shot and wounded his third victim when he pulled out his own handgun. Rittenhouse has presented a considerable amount of evidence that he was not a hunter, but instead felt himself hunted, and fired solely on men who he believed presented a direct threat.

The defense has presented evidence not only that Rittenhouse was attacked, but that there was reason to believe he acted—under Wisconsin law—to “prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself.” The jury will have to determine whether Rittenhouse’s belief was reasonable, and whether it was reasonable for each person he shot.

The narrow nature of the self-defense inquiry is one reason people can escape responsibility for killings that are deeply wrongful in every moral sense. Take, for instance, cases in which bad cops create danger and confusion through incompetence or excessive aggression, and then they respond to the danger or confusion they created by using deadly force.

Examples abound. Police gave confusing and conflicting instructions to Philando Castile before he was shot and killed, and to Daniel Shaver before he was gunned down in a hotel hallway. The killing of Breonna Taylor is another example—police used terrible tactics, but once an occupant of the home fired on them, a grand jury decided, they were legally entitled to fire back.

When Kyle Rittenhouse walked the streets of Kenosha in the midst of urban unrest following the police shooting of Jacob Blake holding a rifle in the “patrol carry” or “low ready” position, similar to the positions used by soldiers walking in towns and villages in war zones, without any meaningful training, he was engaged in remarkably dangerous and provocative conduct. But that dangerous and provocative conduct did not eliminate his right of self-defense, and that self-defense claim is the key issue of his trial, not the wisdom of his vigilante presence.

But that brings us to the danger of Kyle Rittenhouse as a folk hero. It is one thing to argue that the law is on Rittenhouse’s side—and there is abundant evidence supporting his defense—but it is quite another to hail him as a model for civic resistance.

As seen in Kenosha, in anti-lockdown protests in Washington State, and in the riot in Charlottesville, one of the symbols of the American hard right is the “patriot” openly carrying an AR-15 or similar weapon. The “gun picture” is a common pose for populist politicians. Mark and Patricia McCloskey leveraged their clumsy and dangerous brandishing of weapons at Black Lives Matter protesters into an appearance at the Republican National Convention.

Rittenhouse is the next step in that progression. He’s the “patriot” who didn’t just carry his rifle; he used it.

I am a longtime supporter of gun rights and believe that the Second Amendment’s guarantee of a right to “keep and bear arms” is grounded in an inherent right of self-defense, both inside and outside the home. As a person who’s been threatened more than once, I exercise those rights myself.

But there is also an immense difference between quiet concealed carry and vigilante open carry, including in ham-handed and amateurish attempts to accomplish one of the most difficult tasks in all of policing—imposing order in the face of civil unrest. And there is a dramatic difference between the use of weapons as a last resort, when your life or the lives of others are in immediate danger, and the open carrying of weapons as an intimidation tactic or as an intentionally disconcerting display of political identity and defiance.

Most of the right-wing leaders voicing their admiration for Rittenhouse are simply adopting a pose. On Twitter, talk radio, and Fox News, hosts and right-wing personalities express admiration for Rittenhouse but know he was being foolish. They would never hand a rifle to their own children and tell them to walk into a riot. They would never do it themselves.

But these public poses still matter. When you turn a foolish young man into a hero, you’ll see more foolish young men try to emulate his example. And although the state should not permit rioters to run rampant in America’s streets, random groups of armed Americans are utterly incapable of imposing order themselves, and any effort to do so can lead to greater death and carnage.

In fact, that’s exactly what happened in Rittenhouse’s case. He didn’t impose order. He didn’t stop a riot. He left a trail of bodies on the ground, and two of the people he shot were acting on the belief that Rittenhouse himself was an active shooter. He had, after all, just killed a man.

If the jury acquits Rittenhouse, it will not be a miscarriage of justice. The law gives even foolish men the right to defend their lives. But an acquittal does not make a foolish man a hero. A political movement that turns a deadly and ineffective vigilante into a role model is a movement that is courting more violence and encouraging more young men to recklessly brandish weapons in dangerous places, and that will spill more blood in America’s streets.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/kyle-rittenhouse-right-self-defense-role-model/620715/

 

 

 

 

[I_M4_AU 8,033]

6 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

There's evidence of Kyle and his rifle walking right past a group of police officers and them thanking him for being there to do their jobs for them and then handing him water + when he shot all the people he tried to turn himself in to the police and the cops just waved him on and told him to go home. 

Absolute silliness and negligence by the police. It wasn't the evil ANTIFA protestors shooting and killing people that night. it was Kyle. 

 

The police were out numbered and I’m sure appreciated Kyle and his cohorts being there, little did they know what was about to transpire.   As to after the shooting, I have witnessed a citizen shooting a potential car jacker and the police thanking the shooter, took his statement and told him to go home all within a few minutes.  Of course, that was several years ago.  I can’t talk to what the cops were thinking in this case, but pretty sure it was something similar.

The cops should have put him in the cop car for his own protection, IMO.  

You’re correct that the evil ANTIFA rioters didn’t shoot people, but Rosenbaum culled Rittenhouse from the crowd and tried to be the evil person he was deep down inside.  He missed judged his adversary.

As for Huber (another domestic abuser), never bring a skateboard to a gun fight.  Again, he missed judged his opponent.  And then there was the paramedic (not) that brought a gun to a gun fight and lost his bicep.  No one messed with the kid after that.

The only time Rittenhouse was an *active shooter* was when he was defending himself, no other time did he fire his weapon.

My prediction is a hung jury.

 

[I_M4_AU 8,033]

5 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

They stood down after causing the unrest that lead to the violence. 

As opposed to what?  This is the Baltimore *give them space to vent* approach to law enforcement.  I don’t think it is a good strategy, but they were following orders.

[AUGunsmith 666]

[AUDub 11,187]

Oh a Posobiec fan.

Jesus Christ.