lets discuss cooridinators

[aubiefifty 17,030]

mike bobo has been brilliant in some games this year. and he has made some head scratching calls. do you think the calls are wrong or was it execution like harsin harps on? we know out o line is struggling with the run game and it appears to have hurt our chances in games. lets remember tank was supposed to be one of the best running backs in football this year. so is it fair to get rid of bobo or is it too quick to pull the trigger?

and what about coach mason? that three man front against msu is just baffling to me. they were just killing us so why not take a chance and go out swinging? i really like mason and i am not sure if his D is that hard to grasp in one season or maybe we do not have the horses we need to take that next step. and he has shown flashes of brilliance as well. when state began their run why not make the correct adjustments and make them in a timely manner? does harsin make the call of unleashing the dogs so to speak?

so what do we do and how do we do it?

[AuburnNTexas 7,192]

Bobo has changed our O better utilization of TE's , passing to RB's, Slants so we are running a better O then in the past. We know going into this year O-Line was a weak point how much can a coach do when the O-Line doesn't execute.  I am not saying I agree with all of Bobo's play calling but he has shown enough I want to keep him and see what our O looks like under his system with returning players.  

I have been against the bend don't break 3 man rush philosophy the whole year but the results in most games favor Mason over my opinion. This last game though was hard to fathom, when it was obvious it was not working why not dial up pressure it may not have worked but it wouldn't have been any worse then what was occurring. I also don't like his lack of rotation especially on the D-Line.  I need to see how rest of the season plays out. If rest of year looks like most of the season even though I don't like his Defense he should be retained as it may be that the Miss. St. O is ideal O to run against that Defense.  If however other teams do to us what Miss State did in second half I think we find a new D coordinator.

Edited November 15, 2021 by AuburnNTexas

[W.E.D 11,070]

I think overall Bobo has been pretty good.  The development of Bo into a real QB has been really good, even though he's had really extreme ups and downs.  He looks worlds better than he ever has, even though he gets hit once and quickly unravels and is scared of phantom pressure.  Some games we've struggled at QB/drops/bad OL, there were plays open.  I'm hoping that's just progress and development by the offense as a whole.

I'm not sure what to make of his dead halves of football.  I'm not sure how he can be so dominant for 30 minutes to start a game and then just go limp.  It's happened a few games.  Ole Miss & State are stark examples.  That's pretty concerning.  Also being completely ineffective when there is a talent advantage.

I've hated Mason's defense all year, but outside of State it has worked well.  I don't know what to think here.  I don't think we are that extremely deficient on defense that we essentially need to play prevent until the RZ 90% of the time

[tigers23 677]

Wasn't blown away by either hire. Nothing has changed my mind 

[JMassie11 1,610]

My biggest question is why the offensive play calling was so glaringly different between the 1/2s this week. Defensively it was obvious they were a bad matchup for us. We started the game like head hunters and the lack of quality depth showed. 

[GAAubie 501]

6 minutes ago, AuburnNTexas said:

Bobo has changed our O better utilization of TE's , passing to RB's, Slants so we are running a better O then in the past. We know going into this year O-Line was a weak point how much can a coach do when the O-Line doesn't execute.  I am not saying I agree with all of Bobo's play calling but he has shown enough I want to keep him and see what our O looks like under his system with returning players.  

I have been against the bend don't break 3 man rush philosophy the whole year but the results in most games favor Mason over my opinion. This last game though was hard to fathom, when it was obvious it was not working why not dial up pressure it may not have worked but it wouldn't have been any worse then what was occurring. I also don't like his lack of rotation especially on the D-Line.  I need to see how rest of the season plays out. If rest of year looks like most of the season even though I don't like his Defense he should be retained as it may be that the Miss. St. O is ideal O to run against that Defense.  If however other teams so to us what Miss State did in second half I think we find a new D coordinator.

This! I think our O issues are more due to talent vs coaching. However, WHY didn't Mason bring pressure...especially after the 3rd drive when what we were trying wasn't working? We played most of the same DL for most of the game. From my recliner, we never adjusted and should have been hitting the QB instead of letting him sip hot coffee and torching us!   

[woodford 3,669]

3 minutes ago, GAAubie said:

This! I think our O issues are more due to talent vs coaching. However, WHY didn't Mason bring pressure...especially after the 3rd drive when what we were trying wasn't working? We played most of the same DL for most of the game. From my recliner, we never adjusted and should have been hitting the QB instead of letting him sip hot coffee and torching us!   

Yeah we need answers for the defensive meltdown. How do you not bring pressure against a QB who throws almost every play?

 

If they don’t make adjustments then Alabama will score 50 + (again)

[autiger88 3,777]

Can we just get rid of both and start over please? 😁😎

[AUreo 753]

Outcoached, outschemed, outplayed. We failed on every level against Moo State.

This is not the first time Harsin was outcoached by Leach despite having a comfortable lead:

...Washington State (2-0), which trailed by 21 points in the fourth quarter...

https://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/400935267

 

[Win4AU 4,055]

Special Teams coaching is the biggest issue.  All the sudden Anders is missing gimmy field goals, getting called for holding or a block in the back every kickoff lately, punting is going ok I guess.  Fake punt wasn't designed great but whatever on that.  Robertson makes me nervous fielding punts.  At least Gus always had good special teams.

Offense can't run which ends up hurting the pass.  I think Qb play has improved and will continue to improve.  Until the Oline is rebuilt I'm not confident in anyone to be successful as OC.

Defense was getting better until this week but its hard to place much blame on them when the offense is 3&out repeatedly in the 2nd half of these games.  Dline is better than 2020 but still lacks dudes.  Ready to see Lee Hunter emerge and the kid out of Mobile but need more quality.  Edge should be better with Hall and Wooden.  DBs were in position a couple times against MSU but got out manned by their WRs.    

Head Coach really didn't have an issue until this week but he really laid a turd late in this game.  I put the fake punt, 2pt try, and playing Bo hurt all at his feet.  I'll give him a little slack if he didn't know the extent of Bo's injury but the other two weren't bad calls but dumb calls.  The logic behind either is baffling and basically tells me he didn't think the team could come back.  Get beat by the Cocks and blown out at home against Bama and hold onto your butts.  He'll go from Gus 2013>Gus 2015 in about a 4 week time span.  

[woodford 3,669]

1 hour ago, autiger88 said:

Can we just get rid of both and start over please? 😁😎

Seriously. Give me Muschamp right now idc how unpopular that is around here. 

[woodford 3,669]

21 minutes ago, Win4AU said:

Special Teams coaching is the biggest issue.  All the sudden Anders is missing gimmy field goals, getting called for holding or a block in the back every kickoff lately, punting is going ok I guess.  Fake punt wasn't designed great but whatever on that.  Robertson makes me nervous fielding punts.  At least Gus always had good special teams.

Offense can't run which ends up hurting the pass.  I think Qb play has improved and will continue to improve.  Until the Oline is rebuilt I'm not confident in anyone to be successful as OC.

Defense was getting better until this week but its hard to place much blame on them when the offense is 3&out repeatedly in the 2nd half of these games.  Dline is better than 2020 but still lacks dudes.  Ready to see Lee Hunter emerge and the kid out of Mobile but need more quality.  Edge should be better with Hall and Wooden.  DBs were in position a couple times against MSU but got out manned by their WRs.    

Head Coach really didn't have an issue until this week but he really laid a turd late in this game.  I put the fake punt, 2pt try, and playing Bo hurt all at his feet.  I'll give him a little slack if he didn't know the extent of Bo's injury but the other two weren't bad calls but dumb calls.  The logic behind either is baffling and basically tells me he didn't think the team could come back.  Get beat by the Cocks and blown out at home against Bama and hold onto your butts.  He'll go from Gus 2013>Gus 2015 in about a 4 week time span.  

I can’t quite question his leadership but there’s been some dumb decisions for sure. Then again he didn’t recruit any of these guys nor did he assemble this piss poor OL. He’s working with limited funds. 
 

I like Harsin just fine. It’s the first year with a subpar OL and WR corp. This loss, however, was inexcusable. If Mason doesn’t make adjustments he needs to be gone. 

[Guest MustardSeed]

1 hour ago, AuburnNTexas said:

If however other teams do to us what Miss State did in second half I think we find a new D coordinator.

No reason to think every team we face with him as DC won’t mimic that gameplan. 6 TD drives in a row. Any OC that doesn’t take from that gameplan when facing Mason should be fired on the spot

[shabby 1,958]

9 minutes ago, woodford said:

Seriously. Give me Muschamp right now idc how unpopular that is around here. 

how about Give me Coach Steele for an even more unpopular opinion round here. 

[AuburnEagle79 2,170]

I have really liked Bobo overall, and I didn't really expect to when we hired him. An improved OL and some receivers will take us to the next level. 

I was fired up about the Mason hire, but things haven't been that great on that side of the ball. A good pass rush covers a multitude of sins, so I think if he can figure that out, we'll be fine.

I don't think the plug should be pulled on either this year, unless the D gives up something crazy like 120 over the next two plus the bowl. 

[fishepa 1,911]

I give everyone  a pass this year.  They deserve at least that.

[cole256 17,084]

I would love to have a discussion about defense with someone.....someone who doesn't get upset and angry if you don't agree with them of course

[aucom96 1,638]

2 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

mike bobo has been brilliant in some games this year. and he has made some head scratching calls. do you think the calls are wrong or was it execution like harsin harps on? we know out o line is struggling with the run game and it appears to have hurt our chances in games. lets remember tank was supposed to be one of the best running backs in football this year. so is it fair to get rid of bobo or is it too quick to pull the trigger?

and what about coach mason? that three man front against msu is just baffling to me. they were just killing us so why not take a chance and go out swinging? i really like mason and i am not sure if his D is that hard to grasp in one season or maybe we do not have the horses we need to take that next step. and he has shown flashes of brilliance as well. when state began their run why not make the correct adjustments and make them in a timely manner? does harsin make the call of unleashing the dogs so to speak?

so what do we do and how do we do it?

The only reasons I could see us hire Bobo are QB development and recruiting. I've seen some evidence of progress on the first front, less on the second. Offensively, I think Bobo is a wash from what we had. He spreads the ball around a bit more, but our running game is even more mundane and ineffective than it had become with Malzahn. Some of that is on our OL, but not all. 

Mason... I just have to say up front that I absolutely loathe bend don't break defense. We've been through this before with Chizik, Roof and Johnson and it always looked like a mess. But outside of the 12 season - which was its own special problem - I don't know that Auburn has had as hapless a defense as what was on display Saturday. Mason was brought in to make us more efficient and successful against more dynamic offenses and recruit. I had seen little positive on either front. 

Right now, Harsin's job is 1) recruit 2) recruit 3) everything else. 

If we don't significantly improve in 1 &2, cut our losses and find people who can. 

[meh130 1,054]

I think Mason's concept of a 3-4 base, two-gapping DL, with primarily zone pass defense may have worked 10 years ago in the Pac-12, but I do not think that is the solution in the SEC today. Even the historic 3-4 coaches (Saban, Smart) primarily run 4-man fronts today. Even with a true 3-4 defense, they usually rushed 4, with a dedicated pass-rushing OLB. In the secondary, many coaches today, regardless if they run a 1-gap 4-3 style front, or a 2-gap 3-4 style front, are using some kind of hybrid man/zone secondary scheme.

We had better success with Mason's "2-4" front, with two 2-gap DTs and two EDGE players, especially combined with some man coverage in the secondary. I do not understand why we did not use the 2-4 front against an Air Raid offense.

[EastAl_Tiger 228]

To me it's like they're seeing something totally different in the booth than we can see at the stadium or at home. I'd love to know what that was. Or maybe they have misplaced confidence in the players. Call the same play enough times and it's bound to work. ummm no. the right side of the O line as getting worked over Saturday and yet kept feeding the ball around the end. loss of 2. gain of 2, 3rd and 10, now 5 yd sideline rt. I don't get it.

[meh130 1,054]

Adding to my previous post. Both Barry Odom at Arkansas, and D.J. Durkin at Ole Miss, have used a 3-2-6 defense. I don't know much about this, and there are several different versions of it, but it looks like it makes use of a hybrid DB/OLB either as both the nickel and dime backs, or as just the dime back (with a traditional DB as the nickel). In some ways some 3-2-6 defenses are like what Bud Foster did to turn his 4-4-3 defense into a 4-2-5. He used two hybrid DB/OLBs which allowed him to flex between his beloved 4-4 and a 4-2 on the fly. While some 3-2-6 schemes might replace both OLBs with DBs, one article on the 3-2-6 shows a version with one inside LB and one outside LB.

What I do not know about Arkansas' and Ole Miss' 3-2-6 pass rushing or secondary scheme. All of these numbers and DL gap schemes don't necessarily answer all the questions of how they defend against the various spread offenses.

[NoALtiger 3,873]

Very underwhelming all around. 

[ChristoThor 70]

I have found them to be confusing to be honest. I am not the best at figuring out football play calling. That being said there are moments when I just can't figure our defense. It looks like we just give so many yards, but then it all works out and we stop the score. Obviously the past few games have shown some lackluster play on both sides of the ball and it is very frustrating to watch. I have been upset with the last two games especially.

That being said, I do think we need to give it more time. We aren't even through our first season with a completely new program. If we turn Auburn into a revolving door, we will never get any better. I know it is painful to watch us struggle, but its unreasonable to expect us to dominate while trying to build something. I know we all hoped for more from this year, but in all I don't think we have seen coaching that is just truly terrible. I don't know if these are the coaches that will give us a chance to be on top or not, but I do think they have shown enough to have another season or two to see if they can build something.

[autigeremt 6,753]

2 hours ago, cole256 said:

I would love to have a discussion about defense with someone.....someone who doesn't get upset and angry if you don't agree with them of course

Tends to work for either party. lol 

[au302 2,669]

Bobo has exceeded my expectations. Granted, they weren't high, but I like this offense. It's clear that he can script and game plan with the best of them. Problem is once SEC coordinators take away our strengths we don't have the talent to adjust back. In other words, we aren't yet able to make our weaknesses stronger, and it has hurt us. For example, Ms. State took away the middle and forced Bo to stay in the pocket with his bad ankle. Bobo tried to run the ball, which I bet many of us would have agreed with. However, our run game sucks due to poor run blocking and the fact that Bo was hobbled. Bobo is working with poor talent outside of TE and RB so I think he has earned himself another year. It's not like he goes from genius to clueless quarter to quarter guys

I think Mason is a smart football mind and a great leader. I am not against zone defense and the bend but don't break when the opponent calls for it. However, you cannot send 3 the entire game and give good QB's like Rodgers or Clifford all day. They will pick you apart every time, regardless of if your secondary is good or bad. I just don't think that his mentality aligns with Harsin's aggressive nature. If he leaves, Jeff Schmedding and Jimmy Lake are probably the two most likely candidates. Personally, I am still on the Muschamp train. Bring him in to get us some stud recruits again and let Jeff help him scheme wise. He'll probably stay a year and then leave for a small head coaching job, and at that point you let Jeff become DC with Muschamp's recruits. People don't give him enough credit because his recruiting really allowed Steele to eat from 2016-19. Steel of course deserves the upmost credit