19 Children and 2 Adults Killed In Texas Elementary School Mass Shooting.

[aubiefifty 16,804]

43 minutes ago, autigeremt said:

I've used a firearm three different times to stop an intruder or detain them until law enforcement arrived to take them away. Each time the perps had a firearm and decided not to use it for fear of their lives. It's not just a toy. 

you speaking for all the others in america you do not know and have never met? you know damn well they are toys to a lot of people. in fact owning some types of rifles now is a status symbol like owning a lexus or something. you might be legit. i see them every day and listen to what they say. like some guy posted earlier in this thread we have had     88 mass shootings in this country since the beginning of this year and you want to tell me they are responsible gun owners? you take your weapons serious and so do others and i know plenty but too many do no. it is a status symbol to many and if you cannot see that i have no idea what to tell you.

[jj3jordan 2,055]

5 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

you speaking for all the others in america you do not know and have never met? you know damn well they are toys to a lot of people. in fact owning some types of rifles now is a status symbol like owning a lexus or something. you might be legit. i see them every day and listen to what they say. like some guy posted earlier in this thread we have had     88 mass shootings in this country since the beginning of this year and you want to tell me they are responsible gun owners? you take your weapons serious and so do others and i know plenty but too many do no. it is a status symbol to many and if you cannot see that i have no idea what to tell you.

You think somebody who has a weapon as a status symbol is going to open fire at a school?  Why you dissing emt?  You can’t comment on his experience. Nor do you know anything about any other gun owner.  A person that does this is pure evil. No question about it. Just stop ranting for once and place the blame where it belongs, on the perp. 

[AU9377 4,960]

1 hour ago, autigeremt said:

I've used a firearm three different times to stop an intruder or detain them until law enforcement arrived to take them away. Each time the perps had a firearm and decided not to use it for fear of their lives. It's not just a toy. 

What type weapon did you use?

I have lived in some places that others considered dangerous and never had to use the shotgun that I kept behind the door.

[AU9377 4,960]

2 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

You think somebody who has a weapon as a status symbol is going to open fire at a school?  Why you dissing emt?  You can’t comment on his experience. Nor do you know anything about any other gun owner.  A person that does this is pure evil. No question about it. Just stop ranting for once and place the blame where it belongs, on the perp. 

Yes, it is his fault.  However, why does a civilized society allow an 18 year old to buy 2 assault weapons?  They won't allow him to drink for 3 more years.  He must take a test in order to drive to ensure the safety of others.  He even needs a license to fish in most places, but he can buy an AR-15 or similar almost as easily as he can buy p-nut butter at Target.

[I_M4_AU 7,853]

43 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

You can either try to play "the other side isn't good" games, or you can start making concrete proposals to make it harder for these things to happen.  But if all you've got is 'Chuck Schumer bad', don't be surprised if enough Americans look at the list of mass shootings and eventually think you don't really want to do anything about it and forge ahead without you.

Not the point.  This tragedy was horrific and the left, without much hesitation, tried to leverage these dead children for political gain.  It is how the game is played, but you can’t go hard to win an emotional battle with no discussion because emotions are running high.  You don’t end up with good laws when this happens.  Take some time off and enter into some meaningful discussion.  Now, just like calling someone *racist* you have shut down conversation  How this is opened up again is anyone’s guess.

As for your *common sense* gun laws; it could be a starting point.  Not allowing a right to be exercised until you are 25 would be a hard sell and would be challenged.  The bottle neck would be a psych eval, if required, with all the psych evals going on, I don’t think there is enough personnel to go around.

51 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I think we could certainly do more to make schools harder to get into by bad actors, but I don't think defensive measures will be enough

They would be a great deterrent to an 18 year old bent on this type of destruction.  This guy had a plan and visualized it as he was a local.  If he knew there was formidable opposition to his plan, he would think twice.

 

[autigeremt 6,643]

18 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

What type weapon did you use?

I have lived in some places that others considered dangerous and never had to use the shotgun that I kept behind the door.

First time was a 12 ga. Remington 870 Wingmaster, the second time my Ruger SR40 and third my home defense HATSAN Escort 12 ga. 

[autigeremt 6,643]

38 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

you speaking for all the others in america you do not know and have never met? you know damn well they are toys to a lot of people. in fact owning some types of rifles now is a status symbol like owning a lexus or something. you might be legit. i see them every day and listen to what they say. like some guy posted earlier in this thread we have had     88 mass shootings in this country since the beginning of this year and you want to tell me they are responsible gun owners? you take your weapons serious and so do others and i know plenty but too many do no. it is a status symbol to many and if you cannot see that i have no idea what to tell you.

It's ok aubie....we all have different lives. 

[GoAU 1,600]

2 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

Sad that you feel this is how you must derive your safety and security.  More sad for those suffering for your insecurities.

Sad that you live in a hypothetical utopian world where bad things can’t happen.   Maybe ignorance is bliss?   Much like insurance, I don’t plan on using a gun for self defense, I hope I don’t have to use it, but if I do have to use it I’m glad it’s there. 
 

2 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

You pick the oddest, most pedantic things to hang a hat on. 

You said that total gun bans are inevitable.  Somehow Western European countries have managed to put regulations in place that have created societies far safer from gun violence, especially mass shootings, than ours without total gun bans.  How is that possible given your assertion?

 

Link?

 

 

Feel free to Google the process to own and possess firearms in most European countries - I’m sure you can figure it out.  
 

with the licensing and taxes alone you would price many lower income families out of the market.  
 

I have no desire to be Western Europe, and whether they are total bans or just so difficult and tedious that it becomes a defacto ban is irrelevant.  

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

Right.  There is no broad consensus to ban guns outright.

 

You can either try to play "the other side isn't good" games, or you can start making concrete proposals to make it harder for these things to happen.  But if all you've got is 'Chuck Schumer bad', don't be surprised if enough Americans look at the list of mass shootings and eventually think you don't really want to do anything about it and forge ahead without you.

 

Likely wouldn't have for this one.  It could for others.

 

Let's start with some low hanging fruit.  An 18-year old shouldn't be able to buy a high powered weapon like an AR-15 or similar.  I'd argue they shouldn't be able to buy a firearm of any kind.  The adolescent brain, especially in males, is still developing well into their 20s.  Males in this culture tend to react emotionally and violently to mistreatment and disrespect.  Giving them easy and legal access to deadly weapons capable of killing a lot of people in a seconds or minutes just doesn't seem wise at all.  I'd raise the age for being able to get one to 25 years old.  Perhaps at 21 you could get one with a parent's permission and signature, which would also put that parent on the hook legally for anything you do with it.

I would also make body armor something the average citizen cannot legally purchase or own.  It should be reserved for law enforcement, qualified security personnel and military use only.  Don't allow these guys to be easily and legally protected from gunfire from police who respond, or the proverbial good guy with a gun who is carrying concealed and has a chance to stop them.  Wouldn't have helped here as he wasn't wearing the plates, but other shootings like the grocery store in Buffalo it would have helped.

I'd also craft some red flag laws with both real teeth and good checks and balances to make it easy to identify and report individuals who are exhibiting alarming and troubling behaviors and rhetoric, get them in front of a judge and their weapons away from them, and get some psychiatric evals of them before they act.

At least for high powered rifles like this, I'd also consider a waiting period before the weapon can be obtained.  What we do during the waiting period in terms of more in depth background checks or mental health evals we can discuss.  But the data shows that mass shooters overwhelmingly don't come from long time gun enthusiasts, hunters, sport shooters and the like who've owned firearms for years.  Most mass shooters buy their weapon of choice shortly before acting out their killing sprees.  Give them time to calm down, give us time to check them.

Others might be able to think of some others.  Those are a few off the top of my head that could help reduce the chances of a mass shooting.

 

I think we could certainly do more to make schools harder to get into by bad actors, but I don't think defensive measures will be enough.

 

I'm not sure what this even means.  We're just trying to get past this notion that there's nothing that can be done in terms of legislation to make this happen a lot less.  Other countries have done it, even while retaining gun ownership rights.

I agree with some of this, as I said earlier.  The 18 - 21 debate is valid.  I wouldn’t be opposed to 18, but the courts seem to disagree.    Make the age 21 for all firearms, voting, tobacco, alcohol, etc.  I’d prefer a waiver to 18 for those in service. 
 

A waiting / cool down period would possibly prevent some “crime of passion” type shootings, but most of these type events wouldn’t be impacted at all.  Background checks are instant, there isn’t anything additional to be done with more time.   That being said, I wouldn’t be opposed to this too much.  
 

Completely agree with more security and police presence at schools.  
 

Red Flag laws sound great on paper but are very prone to abuse.   Suspending someone’s constitutional rights and then having to prove yourself innocent to restore your rights in unconstitutional in every way.  If someone is that big of a threat, have them committed.  

20 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

you speaking for all the others in america you do not know and have never met? you know damn well they are toys to a lot of people. in fact owning some types of rifles now is a status symbol like owning a lexus or something. you might be legit. i see them every day and listen to what they say. like some guy posted earlier in this thread we have had     88 mass shootings in this country since the beginning of this year and you want to tell me they are responsible gun owners? you take your weapons serious and so do others and i know plenty but too many do no. it is a status symbol to many and if you cannot see that i have no idea what to tell you.

It is a Right - people have no need or requirement to prove to you need vs want. For many it is a hobby, you are correct, but it is also for protection, hunting, recreation, etc. 

7 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

What type weapon did you use?

I have lived in some places that others considered dangerous and never had to use the shotgun that I kept behind the door.

I’m most cases a shotgun is an inferior weapon to other choices.  But Joe Biden says that’s all you need, so there’s that…

4 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Yes, it is his fault.  However, why does a civilized society allow an 18 year old to buy 2 assault weapons?  They won't allow him to drink for 3 more years.  He must take a test in order to drive to ensure the safety of others.  He even needs a license to fish in most places, but he can buy an AR-15 or similar almost as easily as he can buy p-nut butter at Target.

[CoffeeTiger 5,116]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/25/uvalde-shooting-nothing-will-change/

Nobody’s going to do anything, right? I’m betting you already know, in the wake of the deaths of 19 children at an elementary school in Texas, that nobody is going to do a single thing.

Oh, yes, for a while, people will stand behind microphones. Some will be sincere. There will be a vigil, maybe many vigils. Perhaps some balloons will be released into the air. But no one will do anything substantial about the reality that, in the United States, you can pick up a gun and mow down people for no reason.

The fact of the matter is that nobody has done anything since Columbine in 1999, or Virginia Tech in 2007, or Sandy Hook in 2012, or Parkland in 2018, and there’s virtually no chance that anyone is going to do anything now. It doesn’t matter that it’s children we’re talking about again. Nothing happened after innocent children were slaughtered the last time, or the time before that, and nothing is going to be done now. Nothing happens after it occurs in elementary schools, or grocery stores, college campuses or churches. Instead, we always defer to those whose fears outweigh others’ right to continue living.

 

The gun is a holy relic in America. A sacred talisman. More important than life itself.

We are living in a twisted version of “The Lottery,” the classic short story by Shirley Jackson. In the story, the residents of a small fictional town hurry about their day preparing for a big ceremony, which is slowly revealed to be a ritual human sacrifice. Death by stoning. Each year, someone is chosen at random to die, for the good of the town. So that the rest of the townspeople can feel safe. Perhaps so that their god can be appeased, or good crops can be enjoyed.

Nana Efua Mumford: I just want to know: How can I protect my 6-year-old daughter?

That’s where we live now. We live in a culture where human beings are randomly chosen to die so that those who feel unseen or who fear the unknown or just love guns don’t have to feel afraid.

 

But our sacrifices aren’t yearly. They’re daily. One right after the other. Unlike the characters in Jackson’s story, the people who die in our tale lost their humanity long ago and are immortalized only as statistics. Numbers to be added up.

Those of us who survive get to shake our heads and ask “Why?” while secretly just feeling lucky that it wasn’t us or someone that we love who had to pay the price. This is also why nothing will be done. Because it didn’t affect us. We can push it out of our minds and say what a great tragedy it is. But we don’t have to do much else.

We won’t do anything because those among us who think their fears and their rights are the same thing hold all the cards. Because those who believe a boogeyman is lurking around every corner have agents walking the halls of our government to ensure that these shootings change nothing. We rarely note that most of these shooters are men who are angry and antisocial. And, unless we come up with a cure for angry and antisocial men and boys, these mass murders will continue.

 

We won’t do anything about this problem because we are not the land of the free and home of the brave that we think we are. We have that backward: America is the land of the fearful and trapped. We don’t feel our children are safe. We don’t think we can change this dreadful landscape. But we’ll watch politicians make speeches. We’ll see all the memes on social media and read all the opinion pieces from people like me. But, in the end, we’ll move on until there are new human sacrifices to make us forget about the old ones.

Because it’s important that the fearful feel safe. And we’re all fair game to be sacrificed.

[tomcat 569]

9 hours ago, GoAU said:

Sure it is - quit being silly.  Freedom of speech is still a right and the internet didn’t exist when the Constitution was written.  
 

The CDC estimates that there are 500k - 3M uses of firearms defensively in this country each year.  To strip all of those citizens of their RIGHT to defend themselves would be a disaster and completely immoral.   

If you have a robbery at your home in progress and the Police or SWAT teams show up, they aren’t using double barreled shotguns and revolvers to address the situation and defend themselves, why should a citizen?   
 

We have TONS of laws in the book we either aren’t enforcing or refusing to prosecute,  banning more things only negatively impacts the law abiding citizens.  
 

Finally, the US is not the only country with the “problem” of mass homicides, or even shootings.  To throw away your rights for perceived “safety” can be your choice, but shouldn’t be forced on everyone.  

Interesting….It has become apparent that a few people in the United States want to make a statement by killing as many people as possible with a gun. Your comments leave me thinking you have the stomach for more. Would you accept universal background checks? Restricting gun show sales?  Banning armor piercing bullets? 

[GoAU 1,600]

1 hour ago, tomcat said:

Interesting….It has become apparent that a few people in the United States want to make a statement by killing as many people as possible with a gun. Your comments leave me thinking you have the stomach for more. Would you accept universal background checks? Restricting gun show sales?  Banning armor piercing bullets? 

Background checks already exist - are you conflating this with the gun show sales you are talking about?  The so called “gun show loophole” refers to individuals selling firearms from private collections as opposed to entities that make a business of selling guns.  I would entertain the idea of extending background checks to individual sales if you can tell me how it could possibly be enforced without creating a registry.  

What are you talking about when you say armor piercing bullets?  Assume you are referring to the real military definition and not the surplus M855 “green tip” rounds that are commonly (and incorrectly) referred to by the media?  
 

Since we are talking compromise, how about getting rid of the BS rules around suppressors,  which by the way are nothing like what the movies show and are also legal in many European countries - (like that’s a big deal LOL).  How about short barreled rifles?  National reciprocity for concealed carry permits?

But I’m guessing this is all about taking rights….

[icanthearyou 4,463]

3 hours ago, GoAU said:

Sad that you live in a hypothetical utopian world where bad things can’t happen.   Maybe ignorance is bliss?   Much like insurance, I don’t plan on using a gun for self defense, I hope I don’t have to use it, but if I do have to use it I’m glad it’s there. 
 

Feel free to Google the process to own and possess firearms in most European countries - I’m sure you can figure it out.  
 

with the licensing and taxes alone you would price many lower income families out of the market.  
 

I have no desire to be Western Europe, and whether they are total bans or just so difficult and tedious that it becomes a defacto ban is irrelevant.  

I agree with some of this, as I said earlier.  The 18 - 21 debate is valid.  I wouldn’t be opposed to 18, but the courts seem to disagree.    Make the age 21 for all firearms, voting, tobacco, alcohol, etc.  I’d prefer a waiver to 18 for those in service. 
 

A waiting / cool down period would possibly prevent some “crime of passion” type shootings, but most of these type events wouldn’t be impacted at all.  Background checks are instant, there isn’t anything additional to be done with more time.   That being said, I wouldn’t be opposed to this too much.  
 

Completely agree with more security and police presence at schools.  
 

Red Flag laws sound great on paper but are very prone to abuse.   Suspending someone’s constitutional rights and then having to prove yourself innocent to restore your rights in unconstitutional in every way.  If someone is that big of a threat, have them committed.  

It is a Right - people have no need or requirement to prove to you need vs want. For many it is a hobby, you are correct, but it is also for protection, hunting, recreation, etc. 

I’m most cases a shotgun is an inferior weapon to other choices.  But Joe Biden says that’s all you need, so there’s that…

You are deliberately attempting to distort my position.  You are essentially lying.

I have not argued against defensive weapons.  My argument is about assault weapons, weapons that allow a single individual to kill dozens within seconds.  These weapons are not saving lives.  These weapons are nothing but highly efficient killing machines.

 

 

[GoAU 1,600]

10 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

You are deliberately attempting to distort my position.  You are essentially lying.

I have not argued against defensive weapons.  My argument is about assault weapons, weapons that allow a single individual to kill dozens within seconds.  These weapons are not saving lives.  These weapons are nothing but highly efficient killing machines.

 

 

I would absolutely prefer to use an AR in a home invasion, especially against multiple people.  ARs have numerous uses besides just what they are portrayed by many media sources.  You may not have as much experience in those, or just don’t agree.  Aside from looks, they are quite different (select fire vs semi automatic only) from military rifles. 

[icanthearyou 4,463]

3 minutes ago, GoAU said:

I would absolutely prefer to use an AR in a home invasion, especially against multiple people.  ARs have numerous uses besides just what they are portrayed by many media sources.  You may not have as much experience in those, or just don’t agree.  Aside from looks, they are quite different (select fire vs semi automatic only) from military rifles. 

So you feel an assault weapon is necessary for you to feel safe and, that feeling of security is worth the collateral damage such highly efficient killing machines are doing in society?

[GoAU 1,600]

4 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

So you feel an assault weapon is necessary for you to feel safe and, that feeling of security is worth the collateral damage such highly efficient killing machines are doing in society?

Its an oversimplified question.  There are a lot of different ways to "feel safe".  I also shoot competitively, for recreation, and collect & tune guns for a hobby.  Is it a requirement for safety, not necessarily - but its not up to me or any other gun owner to justify ourselves to you.  Trying to pin "collateral damage" on gun owners is dishonest as well.  Do you feel the blame for all victims of violent crime in areas that restrict gun ownership?   How about the collateral damage for drug overdoses for not supporting strong border security?  car deaths?    Of course not - that would be silly and so is your attempt to spread the blame for these crimes on all gun owners. 

I guess I could also take credit for all defensive uses of guns - but we don't discuss that.  Especially when crime is skyrocketing due to poor leadership  

 

[icanthearyou 4,463]

1 minute ago, GoAU said:

Its an oversimplified question.  There are a lot of different ways to "feel safe".  I also shoot competitively, for recreation, and collect & tune guns for a hobby.  Is it a requirement for safety, not necessarily - but its not up to me or any other gun owner to justify ourselves to you.  Trying to pin "collateral damage" on gun owners is dishonest as well.  Do you feel the blame for all victims of violent crime in areas that restrict gun ownership?   How about the collateral damage for drug overdoses for not supporting strong border security?  car deaths?    Of course not - that would be silly and so is your attempt to spread the blame for these crimes on all gun owners. 

I guess I could also take credit for all defensive uses of guns - but we don't discuss that.  Especially when crime is skyrocketing due to poor leadership  

 

Well, if you truly need the assault weapon to feel safe, I would rethink my position.

Stop lying.  I have not attempted to spread blame to all gun owners.

You want to talk about crime but, you do not want to talk about mass murder?  How disingenuous.

[GoAU 1,600]

2 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Well, if you truly need the assault weapon to feel safe, I would rethink my position.

Stop lying.  I have not attempted to spread blame to all gun owners.

You want to talk about crime but, you do not want to talk about mass murder?  How disingenuous.

I will absolutely talk about mass murder - let's talk about what causes them to do what they do, how the secure the schools, how to keep criminals off the street, etc.  I won't tolerate punishing millions of gun owners over the actions of the criminals.

[GTNupe11 2,034]

12 hours ago, GoAU said:

 

Completely agree with much stricter sentences for all crimes.   Stop letting criminals destroy society.  
 

Regarding testing before gun ownership - can we also make people take politicanscience, civics and economics tests before voting?   Having to pass a test before exercising a right is rough. 

 

Stricter sentences do very little to deter violent crime. Like, extremely little. And yeah, no... They tried that once. It's called discrimination. 

Maybe we do need stricter gun laws, but damn, what makes a teenager get up in the morning and want to kill his grandmother and little kids? Life is no longer sacred in this Country. 

[GoAU 1,600]

7 minutes ago, GTNupe11 said:

Stricter sentences do very little to deter violent crime. Like, extremely little. And yeah, no... They tried that once. It's called discrimination. 

Maybe we do need stricter gun laws, but damn, what makes a teenager get up in the morning and want to kill his grandmother and little kids? Life is no longer sacred in this Country. 

Agreed - the root cause remains unanswered.  we focus on the guns because they are convenient and easy to make a political target.  Instead, maybe we can look at how many more children are on all sorts of meds for ADHD, ADD, etc?  Combine that with the relentless pressures of social media, nonstop violence being pumped in via movies and video games, and in the past few years social isolation and continuing polarization of politics & social issues. And it creates somethin akin to, but much worse than, road rage. 

 

Side note - the stricter sentences are designed as much for rehabilitation as involuntarily "opting out" for people that choose not to participate in civilized society.   I don't see how having stricter laws to address criminals is discrimination - the ability to follow laws, or choose not to, is not discrimination.  Saying certain groups of people are not able or inclined to follow the laws is insulting.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

57 minutes ago, GoAU said:

I will absolutely talk about mass murder - let's talk about what causes them to do what they do, how the secure the schools, how to keep criminals off the street, etc.  I won't tolerate punishing millions of gun owners over the actions of the criminals.

Sure, anything/everything but the mass murder's weapon of choice.

Banning assault weapons in not punishing anyone.

[GoAU 1,600]

13 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Sure, anything/everything but the mass murder's weapon of choice.

Banning assault weapons in not punishing anyone.

Removal of a right is a punishment, whether you think it is or not. 

[icanthearyou 4,463]

3 minutes ago, GoAU said:

Removal of a right is a punishment, whether you think it is or not. 

I do not believe an assault weapon is a "right". 

We are not going to find agreement on this issue.  I am very sorry but, I find the argument for assault weapons to be irresponsible, inhumane, selfish, dangerous.  I do not want to make it personal but, that is how I see it.  I would have reconsidered if you felt as though you genuinely needed an assault weapon in order to feel safe.

[AU9377 4,960]

6 hours ago, autigeremt said:

First time was a 12 ga. Remington 870 Wingmaster, the second time my Ruger SR40 and third my home defense HATSAN Escort 12 ga. 

Nobody would ever claim that you shouldn't own those guns.  None of the discussion is about restricting your ownership of those weapons.

I have a 20 ga 870 Wingmaster that was given to me by my dad when I was 16. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by AU9377

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

The more details that are coming out about the Robb Elementary School shooting, the more it appears to mirror the Stoneman Douglas High School shooting in Florida from 2018.

It looks like the Uvalde police never actually went into the school to stop the shooter. It was a Border Patrol team that went in and stopped the shooter. Parents and witnesses were urging and pleading with the police to go in the school. This went on for upwards of 40 minutes.

The Uvalde Police Department are going to have some explaining to do, much like the Broward County Sheriff's Office did:

 

Onlookers urged police to charge into Texas school

By JAKE BLEIBERG, JIM VERTUNO and ELLIOT SPAGAT

 

UVALDE, Texas (AP) — Frustrated onlookers urged police officers to charge into the Texas elementary school where a gunman’s rampage killed 19 children and two teachers, witnesses said Wednesday, as investigators worked to track the massacre that lasted upwards of 40 minutes and ended when the 18-year-old shooter was killed by a Border Patrol team.

“Go in there! Go in there!” nearby women shouted at the officers soon after the attack began, said Juan Carranza, 24, who saw the scene from outside his house, across the street from Robb Elementary School in the close-knit town of Uvalde. Carranza said the officers did not go in.

Javier Cazares, whose fourth grade daughter, Jacklyn Cazares, was killed in the attack, said he raced to the school when he heard about the shooting, arriving while police were still gathered outside the building.

Upset that police were not moving in, he raised the idea of charging into the school with several other bystanders.

“Let’s just rush in because the cops aren’t doing anything like they are supposed to,” he said. “More could have been done.”

“They were unprepared,” he added.

Minutes earlier, Carranza had watched as Salvador Ramos crashed his truck into a ditch outside the school, grabbed his AR-15-style semi-automatic rifle and shot at two people outside a nearby funeral home who ran away uninjured.

Officials say he “encountered” a school district security officer outside the school, though there were conflicting reports from authorities on whether the men exchanged gunfire. After running inside, he fired on two arriving Uvalde police officers who were outside the building, said Texas Department of Public Safety spokesperson Travis Considine. The police officers were injured.

After entering the school, Ramos charged into one classroom and began to kill.

He “barricaded himself by locking the door and just started shooting children and teachers that were inside that classroom,” Lt. Christopher Olivarez of the Department of Public Safety told CNN. “It just shows you the complete evil of the shooter.”

All those killed were in the same classroom, he said.

Department of Public Safety Director Steve McCraw told reporters that 40 minutes to an hour elapsed from when Ramos opened fire on the school security officer to when the tactical team shot him, though a department spokesman said later that they could not give a solid estimate of how long the gunman was in the school or when he was killed.

“The bottom line is law enforcement was there,” McCraw said. “They did engage immediately. They did contain (Ramos) in the classroom.”

Meanwhile, a law enforcement official familiar with the investigation said the Border Patrol agents had trouble breaching the classroom door and had to get a staff member to open the room with a key. The official spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly about the ongoing investigation.

Carranza said the officers should have entered the school sooner.

“There were more of them. There was just one of him,” he said.

Uvalde is a largely Latino town of some 16,000 people about 75 miles (120 kilometers) from the Mexican border. Robb Elementary, which has nearly 600 students in second, third and fourth grades, is a single-story brick structure in a mostly residential neighborhood of modest homes.

Before attacking the school, Ramos shot and wounded his grandmother at the home they shared, authorities said.

Neighbor Gilbert Gallegos, 82, who lives across the street and has known the family for decades, said he was puttering in his yard when he heard the shots.

Ramos ran out the front door and across the small yard to the truck parked in front of the house. He seemed panicked, Gallegos said, and had trouble getting the truck out of park.

Then he raced away: “He spun out, I mean fast,” spraying gravel in the air.

His grandmother emerged covered in blood: “She says, ‘Berto, this is what he did. He shot me.’” She was hospitalized.

Gallegos, whose wife called 911, said he had heard no arguments before or after the shots, and knew of no history of bullying or abuse of Ramos, who he rarely saw.

Investigators also shed no light on Ramos’ motive for the attack, which also left at least 17 people wounded. Texas Gov. Greg Abbott said Ramos, a resident of the small town about 85 miles (135 kilometers) west of San Antonio, had no known criminal or mental health history.

“We don’t see a motive or catalyst right now,” said McCraw of the Department of Public Safety.

Ramos legally bought the rifle and a second one like it last week, just after his birthday, authorities said.

About a half-hour before the mass shooting, Ramos sent the first of three online messages warning about his plans, Abbott said.

Ramos wrote that he was going to shoot his grandmother, then that he had shot the woman. In the last note, sent about 15 minutes before he reached Robb Elementary, he said he was going to shoot up an elementary school, according to Abbott. Investigators said Ramos did not specify which school.

Ramos sent the private, one-to-one text messages via Facebook, said company spokesman Andy Stone.

Grief engulfed Uvalde as the details emerged.

The dead included Eliahna Garcia, an outgoing 10-year-old who loved to sing, dance and play basketball; a fellow fourth-grader, Xavier Javier Lopez, who had been eagerly awaiting a summer of swimming; and a teacher, Eva Mireles, whose husband is an officer with the school district’s police department.

“You can just tell by their angelic smiles that they were loved,” Uvalde Schools Superintendent Hal Harrell said, fighting back tears as he recalled the children and teachers killed.

The tragedy was the latest in a seemingly unending wave of mass shootings across the U.S. in recent years. Just 10 days earlier, 10 Black people were shot to death in a racist attack at a Buffalo, New York, supermarket.

The attack was the deadliest school shooting in the U.S. since a gunman killed 20 children and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Connecticut, in December 2012.

Amid calls for tighter restrictions on firearms, the Republican governor repeatedly talked about mental health struggles among Texas young people and argued that tougher gun laws in Chicago, New York and California are ineffective.

Democrat Beto O’Rourke, who is running against Abbott for governor, interrupted Wednesday’s news conference, calling the tragedy “predictable.” Pointing his finger at Abbott, he said: “This is on you until you choose to do something different. This will continue to happen.” O’Rourke was escorted out as some in the room yelled at him. Uvalde Mayor Don McLaughlin yelled that O’Rourke was a “sick son of a bitch.”

Texas has some of the most gun-friendly laws in the nation and has been the site of some of the deadliest shootings in the U.S. over the past five years.

“I just don’t know how people can sell that type of a gun to a kid 18 years old,” Siria Arizmendi, the aunt of victim Eliahna Garcia, said angrily through tears. “What is he going to use it for but for that purpose?”

President Joe Biden said Wednesday that “the Second Amendment is not absolute” as he called for new limitations on guns in the wake of the massacre.

But the prospects for reform of the nation’s gun regulations appeared dim. Repeated attempts over the years to expand background checks and enact other curbs have run into Republican opposition in Congress.

The shooting came days before the National Rifle Association annual convention was set to begin in Houston, with the Texas governor and both of the state’s Republican U.S. senators scheduled to speak.

Dillon Silva, whose nephew was in a classroom, said students were watching the Disney movie “Moana” when they heard several loud pops and a bullet shattered a window. Moments later, their teacher saw the attacker stride past.

“Oh, my God, he has a gun!” the teacher shouted twice, according to Silva. “The teacher didn’t even have time to lock the door,” he said.

The close-knit community, built around a shaded central square, includes many families who have lived there for generations.

Lorena Auguste was substitute teaching at Uvalde High School when she heard about the shooting and began frantically texting her niece, a fourth grader at Robb Elementary. Eventually she found out the girl was OK.

But that night, her niece had a question.

“Why did they do this to us?” the girl asked. “We’re good kids. We didn’t do anything wrong.”

https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-44a7cfb990feaa6ffe482483df6e4683

[icanthearyou 4,463]

16 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

But the prospects for reform of the nation’s gun regulations appeared dim. Repeated attempts over the years to expand background checks and enact other curbs have run into Republican opposition in Congress.

And the reason why?  Because one gun law will lead to a total ban?  Because the NRA has become a fundraising arm of the Republican party? 

I have yet to hear one genuine argument for why we cannot have any reasonable gun legislation.  Can we not at least regulate assault weapons?