Player development matters

[bigbird 60,580]

2 hours ago, TeamZero77 said:

Byron Cowart was a HUGE bust for us. Ever since the recruiting services began rating players, Byron Cowart is still the highest rated recruit Auburn has landed. He was the overall #1 recruit in the nation when we got him and it turned out to be a whole lotta nothing for us. If I remember correctly, he transferred to Maryland. 

Look at how many of those players transferred from Auburn. 

Westerman to Arizona State

Dyer kicked off team

Roc Thomas to Jax State

Cowart to Maryland

Calvin Ashley to Florida Atlantic

Bo Nix to Oregon

This has to change!!

Even before the portal, player retention has been terrible.

Wanna see? 

For example, of our #9 ranked class in 2016, how many do you think finished their careers here?

https://247sports.com/college/auburn/Season/2016-Football/Commits/

 

Why 2016? Because those were the players that were supposed to be counted on here the last two years.

[LPTiger 5,204]

4 hours ago, AUloggerhead said:

Also, not a lot of 5* to begin with:  13 in 13 years?  I can't deny the dismal lack of development at AU (primarily under you-know-who) but you have to have consider the sample size.  AU's is pretty small.  For comparison I looked up uat's 5* haul within the same time period and it's over 50.   Context.  

Over 50 5 stars = Good Lord in Heaven.  Everyone says Saban is a great coach.   I say a great coach doesn't give up a 24 point lead at home -- ever.  What Saban is is an elite recruiter and talent evaluator.  Now with NIL, we will see if he can outcoach everyone as talent levels become more even. 

[TeamZero77 1,789]

12 minutes ago, LPTiger said:

Over 50 5 stars = Good Lord in Heaven.  Everyone says Saban is a great coach.   I say a great coach doesn't give up a 24 point lead at home -- ever.  What Saban is is an elite recruiter and talent evaluator.  Now with NIL, we will see if he can outcoach everyone as talent levels become more even. 

Saban is John Calipari of college football, imo. Elite recruiter at a blue blood school but average to above average gameday coach. Saban has been out coached by Gus on a few occasions and Gus has never been mistaken for Andy Reid or Bill Walsh.

 

 

[AUpreacherman22 3,895]

On 4/23/2023 at 9:57 AM, bigbird said:

Since Chiz...

 

T Reed

Blackmon

Westerman

Dyer 

Lawson 

Mont. Adams 

Tre Williams 

Roc 

Cowart 

Derrick Brown 

Calvin Ashley 

Pappoe 

Nix 

 

 

There's not a lot of production or success from that list

When I saw the list, I was thinking “How are TX and OU worse than us?”   Our track record with 5* is abysmal!

Edited April 24, 2023 by AUpreacherman22

[DAG 34,043]

The ignorance in this thread practically scares me lol. 

[milehighfan 1,240]

7 hours ago, Shadow Tiger said:

Reed should have been a corner from day 1, while Dyer indeed was a disappointment. I had a feeling it was all down hill for Dyer and Chiz after the February 2011 incident. 

And if I remember correctly the armed robbery incident happened shortly after winning the BCS championship. Talk about going down the tubes in a heartbeat.

[milehighfan 1,240]

2 hours ago, TeamZero77 said:

Saban is John Calipari of college football, imo. Elite recruiter at a blue blood school but average to above average gameday coach. Saban has been out coached by Gus on a few occasions and Gus has never been mistaken for Andy Reid or Bill Walsh.

 

 

I don't think Gus could be mistaken for Andy Hardy, let alone Andy Reid.

[yngwie1995 2,232]

3 hours ago, LPTiger said:

You are spot on about Davis.   I also thought there were hints that he was encouraging him to stay in state.

Yep. I also vaguely remembered the "hat trick" (just googled to confirm), where he had a USC hat inside of an Auburn hat, and Stephen Davis played along with it. Not a good look.

[yngwie1995 2,232]

8 minutes ago, milehighfan said:

I don't think Gus could be mistaken for Andy Hardy, let alone Andy Reid.

He could be mistaken for Andy Roddick though.

[LPTiger 5,204]

5 minutes ago, yngwie1995 said:

Yep. I also vaguely remembered the "hat trick" (just googled to confirm), where he had a USC hat inside of an Auburn hat, and Stephen Davis played along with it. Not a good look.

Do we know what SD's motivation was?   He had a great career at AU. 

[Shadow Tiger 1,291]

1 hour ago, milehighfan said:

I don't think Gus could be mistaken for Andy Hardy, let alone Andy Reid.

Maybe Andy Taylor.

[Shadow Tiger 1,291]

1 hour ago, milehighfan said:

And if I remember correctly the armed robbery incident happened shortly after winning the BCS championship. Talk about going down the tubes in a heartbeat.

Pat Dye was right when he said Auburn fans better savor this one.

[JDUBB4AU 5,138]

Judging by that list some players don’t want to be developed, some staffs can’t develop, and then there are unfortunate situations. That list makes up a mix of those. The past AU staffs could catch the fish, but not clean them. Mental and physical development are equally important, but cultural development may trump them all. 

[JDUBB4AU 5,138]

12 hours ago, TeamZero77 said:

Saban is John Calipari of college football, imo. Elite recruiter at a blue blood school but average to above average gameday coach. Saban has been out coached by Gus on a few occasions and Gus has never been mistaken for Andy Reid or Bill Walsh.

 

 

Did you read this post before submitted it??? Holy moly. Nick Saban is the best coach in CFB history and it’s not even a debate. Calapari has done less with more his whole career. Bad game day coach ??? How many national titles does he have? First round picks?? I loath bama as much as the next AU fan, but your post couldn’t be farther from the truth. 

[Hank2020 3,228]

21 hours ago, TeamZero77 said:

Byron Cowart was a HUGE bust for us. Ever since the recruiting services began rating players, Byron Cowart is still the highest rated recruit Auburn has landed. He was the overall #1 recruit in the nation when we got him and it turned out to be a whole lotta nothing for us. If I remember correctly, he transferred to Maryland. 

Look at how many of those players transferred from Auburn. 

Westerman to Arizona State

Dyer kicked off team

Roc Thomas to Jax State

Cowart to Maryland

Calvin Ashley to Florida Atlantic

Bo Nix to Oregon

This has to change!!

I think in Portal/NIL era we will always lose players (as UGA did thus year. We do need to get some 5 stars and get some value b4 they leave.

[Hank2020 3,228]

8 hours ago, JDUBB4AU said:

Did you read this post before submitted it??? Holy moly. Nick Saban is the best coach in CFB history and it’s not even a debate. Calapari has done less with more his whole career. Bad game day coach ??? How many national titles does he have? First round picks?? I loath bama as much as the next AU fan, but your post couldn’t be farther from the truth. 

Gus got him on a few plays that were as much luck rather than great coaching. IMO

[DAG 34,043]

8 hours ago, JDUBB4AU said:

Did you read this post before submitted it??? Holy moly. Nick Saban is the best coach in CFB history and it’s not even a debate. Calapari has done less with more his whole career. Bad game day coach ??? How many national titles does he have? First round picks?? I loath bama as much as the next AU fan, but your post couldn’t be farther from the truth. 

I am glad someone else said it before me. I think we let our own bias and emotion get in the way of logical thinking. He will probably win another NC then retire (and watch how Bama suddenly sinks)

[JDUBB4AU 5,138]

2 minutes ago, DAG said:

I am glad someone else said it before me. I think we let our own bias and emotion get in the way of logical thinking. He will probably win another NC then retire (and watch how Bama suddenly sinks)

I hate liking this lol

[JerryAU 1,696]

On 4/23/2023 at 10:24 AM, LPTiger said:

Totally agree.   Few of these guys were legit 5 stars and that is one reason we were able to sign them.   Carl Lawson was a legit 5 star and could have been a HOFer but he simply can't stay healthy -- 2 ACL's 1 Achilles.    At AU he missed 1.5 seasons.   I forgot about Roc Thomas leaving and going to Jax St.

Auburn has had a development AND retention problem for years. 

Acquiring 5* talent is one thing, retaining them, keeping them on the roster and developing them into NFL ready draftees is another. 

[JerryAU 1,696]

21 hours ago, TeamZero77 said:

Saban is John Calipari of college football, imo. Elite recruiter at a blue blood school but average to above average gameday coach. Saban has been out coached by Gus on a few occasions and Gus has never been mistaken for Andy Reid or Bill Walsh.

 

 

The man knows how to evaluate talent, he knows how to develop talent, he knows how to manage a professional level college program.  He also (very important) has a willingness to evolve his philosophy and schemes when necessary to give is team every advantage to be successful. 

The willingness to change has been the downfall of many a head coach, a few in our own conference over the last few years.   Les Miles/Gus Malzhan and we'll see very soon if Jimbo Fisher falls in the pool with those guys OR if he'll let Bobby Petrino truly step and take over that stagnant offense this season.  Stubbornness and unwillingness to admit the scheme that got you to SEC HC level may no longer work and a change is needed must be hard for some men.  Jimbo's going through it now. 

What Saban has done is unprecedented in college football, whatever he's done in his college coaching career works at an elite level and it's something we may never see again.  The new hot thing is Kirby Smart, but IMO Kirby has shown Saban a thing or two lately.  Kirby has shown Saban that Saban's old way of coaching can still win championships and I look for Saban to veer away from the finesse style of offense and get back to strong run game offense with killer defenses. I'm looking forward to some interesting football this season from a lot of teams.  Can't wait!

[DAG 34,043]

1 hour ago, JerryAU said:

The man knows how to evaluate talent, he knows how to develop talent, he knows how to manage a professional level college program.  He also (very important) has a willingness to evolve his philosophy and schemes when necessary to give is team every advantage to be successful. 

The willingness to change has been the downfall of many a head coach, a few in our own conference over the last few years.   Les Miles/Gus Malzhan and we'll see very soon if Jimbo Fisher falls in the pool with those guys OR if he'll let Bobby Petrino truly step and take over that stagnant offense this season.  Stubbornness and unwillingness to admit the scheme that got you to SEC HC level may no longer work and a change is needed must be hard for some men.  Jimbo's going through it now. 

What Saban has done is unprecedented in college football, whatever he's done in his college coaching career works at an elite level and it's something we may never see again.  The new hot thing is Kirby Smart, but IMO Kirby has shown Saban a thing or two lately.  Kirby has shown Saban that Saban's old way of coaching can still win championships and I look for Saban to veer away from the finesse style of offense and get back to strong run game offense with killer defenses. I'm looking forward to some interesting football this season from a lot of teams.  Can't wait!

You bring some good points. However, I am not so sure CKS can consistently beat a Saban-coached team. They finally got over the hump two years ago after getting embarrassed by them in the SEC championship. I also want to point out that momentum matters as well. Kind of like how momentum drastically changed when Marvin Harrison, Jr went out last year; the same happened when Jemison Williams got hurt for Bama in the NC game.  That said, UGA deserves all the credit in the world for consistently winning. I would like to see the schedule get a tad bit tougher when Texas and OU come to the SEC. Their current schedule is a freaking joke. 

[TeamZero77 1,789]

10 hours ago, Hank2020 said:

I think in Portal/NIL era we will always lose players (as UGA did thus year. We do need to get some 5 stars and get some value b4 they leave.

I agree. I think it was Saban or Kiffin that was talking about the transfer portal/NIL as it stands today and said coaches used to only recruit a player one time and that was out of high school. He said now you recruit the kid out of high school, then you're possibly recruiting them again after each season just so they stay on your team. 

I'm all for NIL and the transfer portal but it does need some guardrails around it. If not, it's going to keep escalating. 

You mentioned Georgia players entering the portal and I thought of Bear Alexander. He went to 5 different high schools and then came to Georgia. He's a D-Lineman and played in 12 games last season. He had a big game against TCU for the Natty and was probably in line to be a starter for 2023. He just transferred to USC. I've read that Kirby Smart truly feels this kid will be a top 10 draft pick someday and UGA has been a clear path to the NFL under Kirby. I'm sure the guy has his reasons for transferring but that's a head scratcher to go across country to USC when you had a pretty clear path to the NFL where you were at. 

I think those type moves will become more common if the rules stay as they currently are. 

[Hank2020 3,228]

12 hours ago, TeamZero77 said:

I agree. I think it was Saban or Kiffin that was talking about the transfer portal/NIL as it stands today and said coaches used to only recruit a player one time and that was out of high school. He said now you recruit the kid out of high school, then you're possibly recruiting them again after each season just so they stay on your team. 

I'm all for NIL and the transfer portal but it does need some guardrails around it. If not, it's going to keep escalating. 

You mentioned Georgia players entering the portal and I thought of Bear Alexander. He went to 5 different high schools and then came to Georgia. He's a D-Lineman and played in 12 games last season. He had a big game against TCU for the Natty and was probably in line to be a starter for 2023. He just transferred to USC. I've read that Kirby Smart truly feels this kid will be a top 10 draft pick someday and UGA has been a clear path to the NFL under Kirby. I'm sure the guy has his reasons for transferring but that's a head scratcher to go across country to USC when you had a pretty clear path to the NFL where you were at. 

I think those type moves will become more common if the rules stay as they currently are. 

I agree, but I also think that unless they limit coaches movements along with player movements it will never get past courts.