When Government silences the opposition

[DKW 86 7,425]

20 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

David— during a military operation if government asks media that’s become aware of troop movements to not share that information, is that corrupting?

Of course not and no one is talking about that. I have no idea why you would bring that up. We are talking about Twittergate and how the DOJ manipulated and even paid millions to interfere with the First Amendment. 

[DKW 86 7,425]

On 7/18/2023 at 1:24 PM, homersapien said:

Living in a fact-free world is anarchy, which can be worse than tyranny. 

You should know. You have knowledge, tho most of it is incorrect, but you do have knowledge. When you and half this board come to a fact you don’t agree with you simply dismiss it. You don’t argue against it, you simply dismiss reality.  Gallup polling and many others, recently showed that much of America, well over 70%, no longer trust the DOJ, media, Congress, nor the WH. The American public actually side with trump’s views if not trump.  Both parties have lost the real American public. Thinking that one of these two PILES OF FILTH are righteous in any way is pure delusion 

Edited July 21, 2023 by DKW 86

[TexasTiger 12,897]

2 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Of course not and no one is talking about that. I have no idea why you would bring that up. We are talking about Twittergate and how the DOJ manipulated and even paid millions to interfere with the First Amendment. 

Your statement was more absolute so I wondered if you thought there was a line and, if so, where it was. Covid is a public health issue and while folks disagree on a lot about it there’s quite a bit of evidence of folks relying on disinformation to their detriment.

[DKW 86 7,425]

13 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Your statement was more absolute so I wondered if you thought there was a line and, if so, where it was. Covid is a public health issue and while folks disagree on a lot about it there’s quite a bit of evidence of folks relying on disinformation to their detriment.

Then it is to their detriment. You and I and even the US Govt are not responsible for the actions and beliefs of stoopid people. Let them bear the costs of their actions. If anyone WANTS to believe the crazies in the world, well there have been those folks all along. Free Speech means we have to take responsibility for our actions.

[TexasTiger 12,897]

1 hour ago, DKW 86 said:

Then it is to their detriment. You and I and even the US Govt are not responsible for the actions and beliefs of stoopid people. Let them bear the costs of their actions. If anyone WANTS to believe the crazies in the world, well there have been those folks all along. Free Speech means we have to take responsibility for our actions.

And I would agree there should not be coercive government action. There should be no cost to not responding to such a request. But there is a qualitative difference to the challenges of disinformation social media has created which differs from years ago and sharing info with platforms and requesting responsible stewardship is not coercion.

[TitanTiger 20,483]

2 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Then it is to their detriment. You and I and even the US Govt are not responsible for the actions and beliefs of stoopid people. Let them bear the costs of their actions. If anyone WANTS to believe the crazies in the world, well there have been those folks all along. Free Speech means we have to take responsibility for our actions.

But, it's not ONLY to their detriment.  This isn't a situation where people are being misled into some weirdo fad diet that's going to result in damage only to their health or life.  This was a public health emergency with a highly contagious disease.  Some of the misinformation being spread was not just putting the gullible people who believed it in danger, but encouraging them to behave and engage in behaviors that put everyone at risk, creating a domino effect of strain on hospitals and health care infrastructure, medical resources available and so on.

If the only person affected were the dummies who believe dumb s***, I'd tend to agree with you.  But it seems like there's at least some room here for the government to be able to ask private companies to be diligent and careful as to what disinformation they allow to spread in a situation like we had.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

A Fifth Circuit panel placed a temporary pause on the order. @AU9377

[DKW 86 7,425]

23 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

And I would agree there should not be coercive government action. There should be no cost to not responding to such a request. But there is a qualitative difference to the challenges of disinformation social media has created which differs from years ago and sharing info with platforms and requesting responsible stewardship is not coercion.

It is coercion. That’s the point. 

[DKW 86 7,425]

22 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

But, it's not ONLY to their detriment.  This isn't a situation where people are being misled into some weirdo fad diet that's going to result in damage only to their health or life.  This was a public health emergency with a highly contagious disease.  Some of the misinformation being spread was not just putting the gullible people who believed it in danger, but encouraging them to behave and engage in behaviors that put everyone at risk, creating a domino effect of strain on hospitals and health care infrastructure, medical resources available and so on.

If the only person affected were the dummies who believe dumb s***, I'd tend to agree with you.  But it seems like there's at least some room here for the government to be able to ask private companies to be diligent and careful as to what disinformation they allow to spread in a situation like we had.

We weren’t talking about COVID. Do you think we were? We were discussing political coercion and the First Amendment in general. No one thinks that crazies spewing craziness about COVID is a good thing. But, again, you nor I, nor the Fed Govt can force anyone to believe or do anything. I just think of it as God culling the herd. Maybe God uses wars and pandemics to cleanse the gene pool of the stupid. You and I personally know people that ARE PROUDLY anti-vax. You could take $1Tn and not influence 1 of them that they were/are wrong. I work with a great Christian man. He has adopted two children from horrible situations. He is a role model for every man on this board. He lives the Jesus model and he is as crazy antivax as they come. He has had COVID 5x and has a family member with COVID even now. A $1TN later and he will still call you a liar about COVID. It is not our responsibility to train, coerce, correct, whatever. It is simply a waste of time for all involved. Intelligence and knowledge be damned, that is the human condition. Not even Christ can save them all. 

Edited July 21, 2023 by DKW 86

[TexasTiger 12,897]

18 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

It is coercion. That’s the point. 

That’s your point. Where’s your evidence? Use the evidence in a reasoned legal argument.

[TitanTiger 20,483]

5 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

We weren’t talking about COVID. Do you think we were? 

Well, given the portion that the OP quoted referencing COVID and this from the lawsuit itself, yes, I did think we were discussing COVID stuff.  Yes, other stuff was mentioned but that seemed like the direction this discussion was being led:

In this case, Plaintiffs allege that Defendants suppressed conservative-leaning free speech, such as: (1) suppressing the Hunter Biden laptop story prior to the 2020 Presidential election; (2) suppressing speech about the lab-leak theory of COVID-19’s origin; (3) suppressing speech about the efficiency of masks and COVID-19 lockdowns; (4) suppressing speech about the efficiency of COVID-19 vaccines; (5) suppressing speech about election integrity in the 2020 presidential election; (6) suppressing speech about the security of voting by mail; (7) suppressing parody content about Defendants; (8) suppressing negative posts about the economy; and (9) suppressing negative posts about President Biden.

[DKW 86 7,425]

9 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

That’s your point. Where’s your evidence? Use the evidence in a reasoned legal argument.

Why should I do that? What reasoned evidence did the govt have in even approaching these NGOs?

[TexasTiger 12,897]

21 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Why should I do that? What reasoned evidence did the govt have in even approaching these NGOs?

You’re making the allegation. I realize you think you just need feelings to determine guilt.

[DKW 86 7,425]

4 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

Well, given the portion that the OP quoted referencing COVID and this from the lawsuit itself, yes, I did think we were discussing COVID stuff.  Yes, other stuff was mentioned but that seemed like the direction this discussion was being led:

In this case, Plaintiffs allege that Defendants suppressed conservative-leaning free speech, such as: (1) suppressing the Hunter Biden laptop story prior to the 2020 Presidential election; (2) suppressing speech about the lab-leak theory of COVID-19’s origin; (3) suppressing speech about the efficiency of masks and COVID-19 lockdowns; (4) suppressing speech about the efficiency of COVID-19 vaccines; (5) suppressing speech about election integrity in the 2020 presidential election; (6) suppressing speech about the security of voting by mail; (7) suppressing parody content about Defendants; (8) suppressing negative posts about the economy; and (9) suppressing negative posts about President Biden.

(1) suppressing the Hunter Biden laptop story prior to the 2020 Presidential election; NOT COVID. This is Free Speech

(2) suppressing speech about the lab-leak theory of COVID-19’s origin; LAB LEAK isn't really COVID and is now accepted theory by what 3-4 Govt Agencies? This is Free Speech

(3) suppressing speech about the efficiency of masks and COVID-19 lockdowns; Mask Efficiency is again COVID related but not really COVID, It is more about mask rules that lived long past having any benefit and businesses going under, and children who were never in much danger of COVID being sent home to perish academically for way too long. We now see the costs of all that over reaction in the worst academic achievement in years...This is Free Speech

(4) suppressing speech about the efficiency of COVID-19 vaccines; THIS IS VALID CRITICISM.

(5) suppressing speech about election integrity in the 2020 presidential election; THIS IS MAGA INSANITY AND This is Free Speech

(6) suppressing speech about the security of voting by mail; THIS IS VALID CRITICISM 

(7) suppressing parody content about Defendants; This is 100% Free Speech

(8.) suppressing negative posts about the economy; This is 100% Free Speech

(9) suppressing negative posts about President Biden. This is 100% Free Speech

So 1 out of 9 points was about COVID Vaccines? The rest are pretty much Free Speech interference that should have gone anyway. The govt cannot micromanage Free Speech or anything else for that matter.

Back in 2010 we were told by the WH and everyone in the press corp that "If you like your plan, you can keep your plan." That was a 95%+ lie. Far less than 5% of the population was going to get to keep their insurance plan. Yet it was not allowed to be challenged. It was told over and over again. It will likely go down in history as one of the biggest lies ever told, just like the 2020 Election Fraud Crap. 

It's funny how some of the folks here will never admit that however. I have been on ACA INsurance and thanked God for it. But we could have had the insurance and not got bald faced lied to about it. That is why 70% of America no longer trust the DOJ, Fed Govt, FBI, most of the media, etc.

[DKW 86 7,425]

4 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

You’re making the allegation. I realize you think you just need feelings to determine guilt.

I am no wokester. I do not use just feelings to determine guilt. I listen to exactly what people say AND DONT SAY. 

I also watch closely what they do and don't do. 

[TexasTiger 12,897]

52 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

I am no wokester. I do not use just feelings to determine guilt. I listen to exactly what people say AND DONT SAY. 

I also watch closely what they do and don't do. 

You also throw out accusations of guilt without evidence.

[DKW 86 7,425]

52 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

You also throw out accusations of guilt without evidence.

Well, I am human too. Not perfect like some here I guess.

Edited July 22, 2023 by DKW 86

[homersapien 11,379]

On 7/20/2023 at 6:27 AM, DKW 86 said:

You should know. You have knowledge, tho most of it is incorrect, but you do have knowledge. When you and half this board come to a fact you don’t agree with you simply dismiss it. You don’t argue against it, you simply dismiss reality.  Gallup polling and many others, recently showed that much of America, well over 70%, no longer trust the DOJ, media, Congress, nor the WH. The American public actually side with trump’s views if not trump.  Both parties have lost the real American public. Thinking that one of these two PILES OF FILTH are righteous in any way is pure delusion 

Can you please be more specific?

[DKW 86 7,425]

3 hours ago, homersapien said:

Can you please be more specific?

Nope. I can explain it to you, but I cant comprehend it for you. 

[homersapien 11,379]

21 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Nope. I can explain it to you, but I cant comprehend it for you. 

Didn't think so.  That's a lazy and pitiful dodge.

You have clearly bought into the MAGA narrative:

https://www.apmresearchlab.org/motn-fbi-trust-jan-2023

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by homersapien

[DKW 86 7,425]

5 hours ago, homersapien said:

Didn't think so.  That's a lazy and pitiful dodge.

You have clearly bought into the MAGA narrative:

https://www.apmresearchlab.org/motn-fbi-trust-jan-2023

I am as anti-Maga as can be. I am also pro-fairness and pro-truth. For 4-6 years we heard on every news broadcast how "the walls are closing in," "the beginning of the end," "bombshell, bombshell, bombshell..."

I truly do see both sides in this. I see both sides and can still detest trump and know that Biden is in fact laughingly demented. And I howl laughing when people on both sides try to tell me that their side is more righteous. I just LMAO....

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

Enter the Fifth Circuit. https://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/23/23-30445-CV0.pdf
 

@TexasTiger @AU9377

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

On 7/20/2023 at 10:08 AM, TitanTiger said:

But, it's not ONLY to their detriment.  This isn't a situation where people are being misled into some weirdo fad diet that's going to result in damage only to their health or life.  This was a public health emergency with a highly contagious disease.  Some of the misinformation being spread was not just putting the gullible people who believed it in danger, but encouraging them to behave and engage in behaviors that put everyone at risk, creating a domino effect of strain on hospitals and health care infrastructure, medical resources available and so on.

If the only person affected were the dummies who believe dumb s***, I'd tend to agree with you.  But it seems like there's at least some room here for the government to be able to ask private companies to be diligent and careful as to what disinformation they allow to spread in a situation like we had.

Check out the Fifth Circuit’s analysis from this evening. I posted the link above.

[TexasTiger 12,897]

5th’s gonna 5th.

[TexasTiger 12,897]

https://jabberwocking.com/appeals-court-upholds-tiny-part-of-mass-censorship-ruling/