Confidence in Higher Education is down and there are valid reasons for that

[TexasTiger 12,865]

“WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Americans’ confidence in higher education has fallen to 36%, sharply lower than in two prior readings in 2015 (57%) and 2018 (48%). In addition to the 17% of U.S. adults who have “a great deal” and 19% “quite a lot” of confidence, 40% have “some” and 22% “very little” confidence.”

https://news.gallup.com/poll/508352/americans-confidence-higher-education-down-sharply.aspx

There are a number of reasons for this, some valid, some less so. But the easier academia makes it to for folks to view it as being less authoritative, or worse, deserving of parody, it baits and fuels those with their own malevolent agendas to diminish more credible and useful findings.

Here’s a recent example:

“The study is the first archaeological exploration showing how racism influenced a person's risk of death during what was known as the Great Pestilence or Great Mortality.

The research is based on 145 individuals from three cemeteries.”

“Data on bone and dental changes of the 145 individuals from East Smithfield emergency plague cemetery, St Mary Graces and St Mary Spital formed the basis of the study.

It found there were significantly higher proportions of people of colour and those of Black African descent in plague burials compared to non-plague burials.“

”It arrived in London in the autumn of 1348 and lasted until the spring of 1350.”

“More than half the population of London died. Emergency cemeteries had to be set up to bury them.”

”The outbreak is believed to have claimed the lives of 35,000 Londoners.”

“The research concluded that higher death rates amongst people of colour and those of black African descent was a result of the "devastating effects" of "premodern structural racism" in the medieval world.”

”"As with the recent Covid-19 pandemic, social and economic environment played a significant role in people's health and this is most likely why we find more people of colour and those of black African descent in plague burials."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-67472933?xtor=AL-72-[partner]-[bbc.news.twitter]-[headline]-[news]-[bizdev]-[isapi]&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_medium=social&at_link_origin=BBCNews&at_format=link&at_campaign_type=owned&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_link_id=AE4E8852-8837-11EE-B964-74B1E03B214A&at_link_type=web_link&at_ptr_name=twitter

What data are these broad conclusions that align with current agendas based on?

”Using this method we studied the remains of 41 individuals, 19 of whom were female. For our total sample, 30% of the population was not of White descent. Focusing on the female evidence, four females were likely to be of mixed heritage, and three were of African descent.

The scholar, Professor Geraldine Heng, has studied racism in the Medieval Period. Her work shows that people of African origin or descent who visited Europe as diplomats, or had been enslaved in Europe, as well as those who had been freed or were born free, suffered from social, economic and political forms of discrimination. Like today, discrimination in the past negatively effected people’s health and how they were treated.”

https://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/discover/bioarchaeological-evidence-black-women-14th-century-london

3 women of African descent were discovered in the graves. 35,000 Londoners likely died.

 

To be clear, I have no doubt racism was at play in Medieval London. I firmly believe that structural racism exists, but I attribute far fewer issues to it today (although many problems stem from past structural racism) than many who cite it. It certainly existed for hundreds of years in London & in this country. 
 

But “studies” like this appear to be conclusions and agendas looking for data to make some broader statement. Is this the most useful thing “learned” from this research? If so, was it worth the time & money spent? I’m reasonably progressive on these issues, but still have to roll my eyes at this kinda of “scholarly” offering.

[AU9377 4,931]

5 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

“WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Americans’ confidence in higher education has fallen to 36%, sharply lower than in two prior readings in 2015 (57%) and 2018 (48%). In addition to the 17% of U.S. adults who have “a great deal” and 19% “quite a lot” of confidence, 40% have “some” and 22% “very little” confidence.”

https://news.gallup.com/poll/508352/americans-confidence-higher-education-down-sharply.aspx

There are a number of reasons for this, some valid, some less so. But the easier academia makes it to for folks to view it as being less authoritative, or worse, deserving of parody, it baits and fuels those with their own malevolent agendas to diminish more credible and useful findings.

Here’s a recent example:

“The study is the first archaeological exploration showing how racism influenced a person's risk of death during what was known as the Great Pestilence or Great Mortality.

The research is based on 145 individuals from three cemeteries.”

“Data on bone and dental changes of the 145 individuals from East Smithfield emergency plague cemetery, St Mary Graces and St Mary Spital formed the basis of the study.

It found there were significantly higher proportions of people of colour and those of Black African descent in plague burials compared to non-plague burials.“

”It arrived in London in the autumn of 1348 and lasted until the spring of 1350.”

“More than half the population of London died. Emergency cemeteries had to be set up to bury them.”

”The outbreak is believed to have claimed the lives of 35,000 Londoners.”

“The research concluded that higher death rates amongst people of colour and those of black African descent was a result of the "devastating effects" of "premodern structural racism" in the medieval world.”

”"As with the recent Covid-19 pandemic, social and economic environment played a significant role in people's health and this is most likely why we find more people of colour and those of black African descent in plague burials."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-67472933?xtor=AL-72-[partner]-[bbc.news.twitter]-[headline]-[news]-[bizdev]-[isapi]&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_medium=social&at_link_origin=BBCNews&at_format=link&at_campaign_type=owned&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_link_id=AE4E8852-8837-11EE-B964-74B1E03B214A&at_link_type=web_link&at_ptr_name=twitter

What data are these broad conclusions that align with current agendas based on?

”Using this method we studied the remains of 41 individuals, 19 of whom were female. For our total sample, 30% of the population was not of White descent. Focusing on the female evidence, four females were likely to be of mixed heritage, and three were of African descent.

The scholar, Professor Geraldine Heng, has studied racism in the Medieval Period. Her work shows that people of African origin or descent who visited Europe as diplomats, or had been enslaved in Europe, as well as those who had been freed or were born free, suffered from social, economic and political forms of discrimination. Like today, discrimination in the past negatively effected people’s health and how they were treated.”

https://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/discover/bioarchaeological-evidence-black-women-14th-century-london

3 women of African descent were discovered in the graves. 35,000 Londoners likely died.

 

To be clear, I have no doubt racism was at play in Medieval London. I firmly believe that structural racism exists, but I attribute far fewer issues to it today (although many problems stem from past structural racism) than many who cite it. It certainly existed for hundreds of years in London & in this country. 
 

But “studies” like this appear to be conclusions and agendas looking for data to make some broader statement. Is this the most useful thing “learned” from this research? If so, was it worth the time & money spent? I’m reasonably progressive on these issues, but still have to roll my eyes at this kinda of “scholarly” offering.

They are certainly conclusions looking to build a foundation.  This isn't scholarly at all, but is guaranteed to get published due to the current climate of over reaction and the need to be a victim of something.  Studies from hundreds of years ago seldom look at the cultural issue from multiple angles.  Would a European been readily accepted in parts of Africa at the time?  Absolutely not.  Travel was much more difficult and exposure to foreigners, regardless of where it took place, generated very human reactions.

[SaltyTiger 7,803]

My assumption would be that cost is the major cause for the drop. See us MAGAs are pointing to liberal indoctrination. 

[PUB78 1,358]

Here is another reason confidence is so low towards High Ed.

https://wng.org/opinions/the-moral-rot-starts-at-the-top-1702038803?mkt_tok=NzEwLVFSUi0yMDkAAAGP6RW5SC1oIebt1MUDO6UVPH6nEsvOnHOLgbpawPI60V0XwRKO8TZVn6GtYIiSSfMds87oh3g5ADgcjCVtiAY5kuFN3EWlTgWL0BM6IBX83cDv

[autigeremt 6,617]

Student loan debt, fewer high earning jobs, oversaturation of BS/BA's out there, lazy azz graduates.....skilled trades is a where a lot of young people need to be looking right now. Good money in those sectors. 

[AuburnNTexas 7,148]

Getting back to basics in Education.  After I retired this year from working in IT since 1980 I was asked by my daughter to help as a Substitute teacher. One the teachers I work with are working hard and are not the problem. I have seen these teachers work late to help students who are behind. I am amazed at how many kids in 4th, 5th and 6th grade can't do multiplication and division without a calculator. The kids whose parents who buy cards to practice addition and subtraction in early grades and multiplication and division and work with the kids have kids who do well. Sadly to many parents drop the kids off don't back teachers if there are discipline issues and don't work with their kids at home. 

In the few months I have been teaching it is obvious that good parenting that includes working with their children on learning the basics pays dividends. It is not all on the parents it can sadly also be on lack of economic access. There are parents that work two jobs to be able to afford putting a roof over families head and food on the table. These are good parents that don't have the time to work with their kids in the formative years. Children who fall behind earlier usually never catch up. Sadly there are also parents who basically use the schools as babysitters and don't make PTA meetings, don't help their kids with school work, and blame the teacher if their child acts up.

I am using math as an example but I see the same thing in other subjects. Good parents who stress education and work with their kids when they are learning the basics, parents who due to economic need try but often can't provide the help their kids need, and sadly some parents have kids who are part of the problem. I can't speak for all schools throughout our country but I can tell you in the schools I work the teachers are not the problem. 

[TexasTiger 12,865]

 

[TexasTiger 12,865]

 

[SLAG-91 1,483]

13 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

 

A very telling (and distressing) nugget of information presented in that graphic.  I wonder what that breakdown looks like for 2020-2023...I have the feeling it will look at least that imbalanced toward the intersectionality buzzword topics.

[SLAG-91 1,483]

On 12/10/2023 at 3:02 PM, AuburnNTexas said:

Getting back to basics in Education.  After I retired this year from working in IT since 1980 I was asked by my daughter to help as a Substitute teacher. One the teachers I work with are working hard and are not the problem. I have seen these teachers work late to help students who are behind. I am amazed at how many kids in 4th, 5th and 6th grade can't do multiplication and division without a calculator. The kids whose parents who buy cards to practice addition and subtraction in early grades and multiplication and division and work with the kids have kids who do well. Sadly to many parents drop the kids off don't back teachers if there are discipline issues and don't work with their kids at home. 

In the few months I have been teaching it is obvious that good parenting that includes working with their children on learning the basics pays dividends. It is not all on the parents it can sadly also be on lack of economic access. There are parents that work two jobs to be able to afford putting a roof over families head and food on the table. These are good parents that don't have the time to work with their kids in the formative years. Children who fall behind earlier usually never catch up. Sadly there are also parents who basically use the schools as babysitters and don't make PTA meetings, don't help their kids with school work, and blame the teacher if their child acts up.

I am using math as an example but I see the same thing in other subjects. Good parents who stress education and work with their kids when they are learning the basics, parents who due to economic need try but often can't provide the help their kids need, and sadly some parents have kids who are part of the problem. I can't speak for all schools throughout our country but I can tell you in the schools I work the teachers are not the problem. 

I feel like I was born about 15 years too late to be in this profession.  I am a strong believer in the hand-to-brain connection that is developed when learning mathematics, especially early on.  I don't have to stop and think about what 8 x 12 is because I (we) were made to write those multiplication tables over and over and over again in the third grade.  To use a baking analogy, I think many educational philosophies that are being pushed now are trying to put icing on cakes that are half-baked, and some of these philosophies have wandered far away from the actual teaching and learning of how the mathematics works.  There is so much technology out there that has been developed to simplify some of the more complicated arithmetic, but there is little understanding by younger people (and, to be fair, more than some of the teachers) of how one arrives at an answer that a calculator spits out.

I'm not sure this genie can be put back in the bottle, because kids get access to technology at increasingly younger ages and the pushback is not insignificant when it gets taken away from them in order to teach a concept.

Example:  Solving quadratics is frequently taught now by just memorizing steps on a graphing calculator, and once you take that calculator away, a sizable number of students are helpless.  But, the realities of the current environment are that standardized test scores are the be-all, end-all and these shortcuts are done out of a need of self-preservation.  Teachers and departments are judged by these standardized test scores.  Whether students truly know anything or not is subordinate to that result.

 With the advent of ChatGPT and other AI sources that are becoming more prevalent, the only work that I trust from students is the work that is done in front of me during class.  The AI advancements and trying to evaluate student work effectively may be the thing that pushes me to hang it up and look for something else to do.

[AUDub 11,148]

On 12/8/2023 at 2:53 PM, autigeremt said:

Student loan debt, fewer high earning jobs, oversaturation of BS/BA's out there, lazy azz graduates.....skilled trades is a where a lot of young people need to be looking right now. Good money in those sectors. 

As a skilled worker, the trades ******* suck.

The grass ain’t always greener. 

[SLAG-91 1,483]

23 minutes ago, AUDub said:

As a skilled worker, the trades ******* suck.

The grass ain’t always greener. 

True, but it is a good option for students that maybe aren't all that academic, but have good work ethics. The more jobs our economy can generate that allow people like this to earn a decent living, the better.

I've never been on the "everyone needs to go to college" train. There are scads of young people that have been convinced that this is the only path, but it's not one they're prepared for, they incur significant debt trying it, and have little to show for it besides loan payments.

I had a few graduating seniors last year that spent half of their day at our district's vocational campus getting certified to be welders. They were not interested in going to a 4-year school, so doing that is a better option than McDonald's after graduation.

[AUDub 11,148]

6 minutes ago, SLAG-91 said:

True, but it is a good option for students that maybe aren't all that academic, but have good work ethics. The more jobs our economy can generate that allow people like this to earn a decent living, the better.

It’s just a lazy handwave on EMT’s part. “People should be looking at the trades” lol.

The fact of the matter is the “shortage” is because young people have figured out that most trades are scutwork in an OSHA nightmare for barely more than minimum wage. And correctly saying "I'd rather flip burgers for basically the same pay and not risk being crippled/blind/an amputee by the time I'm 40.”

I’m a skilled worker, 38, and can already feel the wear it’s putting on me. The idea of doing what I do for 27 more years isn’t a fun thought. My predecessor immediately upon retirement had to have several surgeries. One of my current co-workers is basically working on knees that’ll need replacement in the next few years. My hands, elbows and knees are my main source of discomfort. There’s corrective work in my future no matter how you slice it becuase of the wear I’m putting on myself.

On top of the general wear on your body, it’s dangerous ass work where one lapse could very well maim you or just as easily kill you.

On top of that, it’s stressful as hell, and you get treated like s*** for OK money. Not “good” money. OK money. And it takes a while to get there no matter how hard you work, if you get there at all. Sure there are a lot of guys in the trades that eventually start their own business and get rich, but it’s not like you can have every tradesman do that in the long run and not have a glut of electrical or plumbing companies.

[AURex 1,998]

WOW!  With a BA, MS, PhD and Postgrad Cert, this is the most totally SHIITE-HEAD crap I have ever encountered. One cannot even begin to counter the load of crap spewed in this OP. Just amazingly total BS.

 

[autigeremt 6,617]

2 hours ago, AUDub said:

It’s just a lazy handwave on EMT’s part. “People should be looking at the trades” lol.

The fact of the matter is the “shortage” is because young people have figured out that most trades are scutwork in an OSHA nightmare for barely more than minimum wage. And correctly saying "I'd rather flip burgers for basically the same pay and not risk being crippled/blind/an amputee by the time I'm 40.”

I’m a skilled worker, 38, and can already feel the wear it’s putting on me. The idea of doing what I do for 27 more years isn’t a fun thought. My predecessor immediately upon retirement had to have several surgeries. One of my current co-workers is basically working on knees that’ll need replacement in the next few years. My hands, elbows and knees are my main source of discomfort. There’s corrective work in my future no matter how you slice it becuase of the wear I’m putting on myself.

On top of the general wear on your body, it’s dangerous ass work where one lapse could very well maim you or just as easily kill you.

On top of that, it’s stressful as hell, and you get treated like s*** for OK money. Not “good” money. OK money. And it takes a while to get there no matter how hard you work, if you get there at all. Sure there are a lot of guys in the trades that eventually start their own business and get rich, but it’s not like you can have every tradesman do that in the long run and not have a glut of electrical or plumbing companies.

I know people who have made a serious financial gain of being a welder, automotive technician, heavy vehicle operator, etc. I personally worked as a HAZMAT technician and paramedic (hardest work I’ve ever done on my body) lifting patients, extricating injured from mangled up vehicles, recovering bodies, etc. Academia isn’t for everyone. Tye trades route is a good option for those who aren’t cut out for a college classroom. 

Edited January 8 by autigeremt

[autigeremt 6,617]

46 minutes ago, AURex said:

WOW!  With a BA, MS, PhD and Postgrad Cert, this is the most totally SHIITE-HEAD crap I have ever encountered. One cannot even begin to counter the load of crap spewed in this OP. Just amazingly total BS.

 

Ok 

[AUDub 11,148]

Just now, autigeremt said:

I know people who have made a serious financial gain of being a welder, automotive technician, heavy vehicle operator, etc. I personally worked as a HAZMAT technician and paramedic (hardest work I’ve ever done on my body) lifting patients, extricating injured from mangled up vehicles, recovering bodies, etc. Academia isn’t for everyone. This is a good option for those you aren’t cut out for a college classroom. 

They have their own barriers to entry that aren’t for everyone. 

They are not a panacea for college not being a fit for many, anymore than “learn to code” is. 

[autigeremt 6,617]

Just now, AUDub said:

They have their own barriers to entry that aren’t for everyone. 

They are not a panacea for college not being a fit for many, anymore than “learn to code” is. 

It’s an option that’s better than flipping burgers. 

[AUDub 11,148]

Just now, autigeremt said:

It’s an option that’s better than flipping burgers. 

Only if the ROI is ultimately better. You’ll hit the same barriers dealing with white collar.

It’s your health vs stability and money. 

[autigeremt 6,617]

Just now, AUDub said:

Only if the ROI is ultimately better. You’ll hit the same barriers dealing with white collar.

It’s your health vs stability and money. 

To each their own, Dub. 

[AUDub 11,148]

Just now, autigeremt said:

To each their own, Dub. 

That’s not a response. That’s a hand wave.

Yes, there’s value in blue collar. Trust me I know. It’s what I do. But it’s not immediately better because of nonsense right wing shibboleths.

Ultimately the problem is we treat workers like s*** in this day and age. 

[autigeremt 6,617]

Just now, AUDub said:

That’s not a response. That’s a hand wave.

Yes, there’s value in blue collar. Trust me I know. It’s what I do. But it’s not immediately better because of nonsense right wing shibboleths.

Ultimately the problem is we treat workers like s*** in this day and age. 👋 

[TexasTiger 12,865]

4 hours ago, AUDub said:

It’s just a lazy handwave on EMT’s part. “People should be looking at the trades” lol.

The fact of the matter is the “shortage” is because young people have figured out that most trades are scutwork in an OSHA nightmare for barely more than minimum wage. And correctly saying "I'd rather flip burgers for basically the same pay and not risk being crippled/blind/an amputee by the time I'm 40.”

I’m a skilled worker, 38, and can already feel the wear it’s putting on me. The idea of doing what I do for 27 more years isn’t a fun thought. My predecessor immediately upon retirement had to have several surgeries. One of my current co-workers is basically working on knees that’ll need replacement in the next few years. My hands, elbows and knees are my main source of discomfort. There’s corrective work in my future no matter how you slice it becuase of the wear I’m putting on myself.

On top of the general wear on your body, it’s dangerous ass work where one lapse could very well maim you or just as easily kill you.

On top of that, it’s stressful as hell, and you get treated like s*** for OK money. Not “good” money. OK money. And it takes a while to get there no matter how hard you work, if you get there at all. Sure there are a lot of guys in the trades that eventually start their own business and get rich, but it’s not like you can have every tradesman do that in the long run and not have a glut of electrical or plumbing companies.

Do you anticipate making a change?

[AUDub 11,148]

5 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Do you anticipate making a change?

Not in the near future.

The money where I am is necessary with 1 currently in college and another following in a year and a half, and an our 14 and 6 year olds behind that. The work life balance sucks and all that - I spent New Year’s Eve in a hospital troubleshooting some equipment  - but it’s a sensible trade-off for the time being because no matter how you slice it kids are expensive.

Eventually when finances allow the goal is to go back to in house work where there’s less wear and tear and less stress.