Seems like a big deal

[I_M4_AU 7,950]

8 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

Because it should have been obvious. All of what you posted was in the report, yet Hur said charges weren't warranted. As much as we all don't agree with the way classified documents have been handled by past politicians, it does appear that Biden was accurate in that the precedent had been set, since Hur wasn't moving any further with it. Considering Hur is a Republican and went outside of standard practice by editorializing about Biden's appearance and memory (which I think we can all agree will damage Biden to some degree in the election, possibly enough to swing it), I don't think an argument could reasonably be made that Hur was protecting Biden by not charging him.

 

 

What I posted from the report only points out Biden knew he had classified documents well before he said he *voluntarily* turned those documents over.  If the precedent had been set, why doesn’t that excuse world for Trump?

The *Hur wasn’t moving any further* is a wild one.  The reason he states is the reason it is going to hurt Biden in the upcoming election.  If he does not have the mental acuity to stand trial; how could he operate as President?

Again, I’m not saying Hur is protecting Biden, its the media that didn’t dig into this incident until the report came out.  There was, recently, a special report that was investigated, but the media, to the point of a lot of people wanted to impeach a president before the report came out.  It wasn’t even close to the same.

[Leftfield 2,643]

16 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

What I posted from the report only points out Biden knew he had classified documents well before he said he *voluntarily* turned those documents over.  If the precedent had been set, why doesn’t that excuse world for Trump?

The *Hur wasn’t moving any further* is a wild one.  The reason he states is the reason it is going to hurt Biden in the upcoming election.  If he does not have the mental acuity to stand trial; how could he operate as President?

Again, I’m not saying Hur is protecting Biden, its the media that didn’t dig into this incident until the report came out.  There was, recently, a special report that was investigated, but the media, to the point of a lot of people wanted to impeach a president before the report came out.  It wasn’t even close to the same.

When was Biden asked to return classified documents?

[I_M4_AU 7,950]

51 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

When was Biden asked to return classified documents?

Is that a part of the crime he committed?  He knew when he walked out of the ‘SCIF’ and they asked him does he have any classified information and he said ‘no’ he knew he was breaking protocol.

It seems that if you don’t return things when you’re asked is more devastating than committing the original crime.

[AU9377 5,024]

3 hours ago, Son of A Tiger said:

By appealing that order to a higher court.

There is no valid legal argument that can be made justifying not returning the documents.  He went to the extent of telling his lawyer to lie to the Justice Dept and tell them that all the documents in his possession had been returned, although he knew that there were documents still at Mara Lago.

There is no lawyer/client privilege that exists when that privilege is used to further the criminal activity.  That is why the lawyer had to inform the FBI of those instructions when questioned.

It is all so ridiculous because none of it had to come to an indictment or charges.  Just return the damn documents and the problem goes away.

[AU9377 5,024]

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

For those that think Biden turned over classified documents as soon as he realized he had them in 2022; just another lie and cover-up.  From page 97 of Hur’s report:

I. MR. BIDEN'S 2017 MEMOIR: PROMISE ME, DAD
After his vice presidency, Mr. Biden wrote and published a memoir in 2017 titled Promise Me, Dad. Evidence suggests that, while researching and writing the book, Mr. Biden found marked classified documents in the basement of his rental home in Virginia and told his ghostwriter about it during an audio-recorded conversation.

https://www.justice.gov/storage/report-from-special-counsel-robert-k-hur-february-2024.pdf

OOPs, five full years before he *found* the classified docs and his lawyers turned them in.

Also:

In Mr. Biden's interview with our office, he explained that he took his notebooks with him after his vice presidency because "[t]hey are mine," and explained that "every President before me has done the same exact thing."375

He also specifically referenced President Reagan, who, after leaving office, kept handwritten diaries containing classified information at his private home, as discussed in Chapter Ten.:376
In later written answers, Mr. Biden wrote that, "[l]ike presidents and vice presidents before me, I understand these notes to be my personal property."377 He declined to answer several questions about whether he believed his notes contained classified information; whether he believed he was authorized to possess classified information
after his vice presidency, and whether if he took step to avoid writing classified information in his notebooks.

Page 94 in the same source.

Now where have I heard these excuses before?

Biden didn’t care about having 40 years of classified documents in his possession until he thought it might affect Jack Smith’s case against Trump. Biden is such an upstanding and law abiding President; who could doubt that?

He likely didn't see those particular documents as being a big deal. You are correct about that.  Why?  Because they were primarily hand written notes and a letter that he had written to then President Obama concerning Afghanistan.    You describe them as "40 years of classified documents" as though there were boxes on top of boxes.  Biden could have chosen to not report having the documents he did report and we would be sitting here today not knowing any different. 

You are assuming that if every former President and VP's homes and offices were searched, that no documents would be found.  That is an unlikely assumption.  The only reason they searched Biden's residences was in an effort to fend off accusations of selective enforcement due to Trump's behavior.  They found a few things.    The world didn't stop rotating. 

Had Trump simply not been such an ass and cooperated with returning documents, there would have never been a search of his residences.  There would be no documents indictment today. 

[AU9377 5,024]

39 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Is that a part of the crime he committed?  He knew when he walked out of the ‘SCIF’ and they asked him does he have any classified information and he said ‘no’ he knew he was breaking protocol.

It seems that if you don’t return things when you’re asked is more devastating than committing the original crime.

Most classified documents don't require a SCIF for them to be viewed.   We literally over classify most everything.  I'm certain that filing cabinets in the White House contain lots of documents marked classified.  Copies are made and distributed.  It is only a very few that are marked "Top Secret"

[Leftfield 2,643]

31 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Is that a part of the crime he committed?

So you agree that he was never told? Good - we've at least established that.

32 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

He knew when he walked out of the ‘SCIF’ and they asked him does he have any classified information and he said ‘no’ he knew he was breaking protocol.

And I already said everyone here agrees that the way documents have been handled in the past needs to be changed. Right or wrong (and we all think it's wrong), it's already been established that a number of politicians have done it. Have handwritten notes been viewed as classified in the past? I would argue they should be, but have they? I'm guessing the contents might have a lot to do with the answer.

36 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

It seems that if you don’t return things when you’re asked is more devastating than committing the original crime.

As with my previous answer, I would guess that has a lot to do with the contents of what was taken. The fact the archives were trying to get them back syrongly implies the nature of the documents was sensitive. It doesn't help Trump that people said he was openly sharing information, allegedly about the subject the archives were most concerned about.

Once again, we get back to the difference in the cases: both people handled documents inappropriately, and both of them couldn't keep their mouths shut about it, but only one of them (allegedly) shared what they knew to be classified information knowingly and willingly, then refused to return the documents. It's very simple - if Trump had returned them, this discussion doesn't take place.

[I_M4_AU 7,950]

15 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

You describe them as "40 years of classified documents" as though there were boxes on top of boxes.

The point being he was a Senator when he took some of the documents.  Senators do not have any right to take them or can the declassify documents and I don’t think it matters about the volume of documents taken.

17 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Biden could have chosen to not report having the documents he did report and we would be sitting here today not knowing any different. 

The lawyers found them in November of 2021 and he didn’t self report until December/January time frame.  He was probably thinking it over.  Do you have another reason why it took so long?  Its also interesting that Pence also had some classified document at his house.  Sure does sound like a CYA for both of them.

21 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

That is an unlikely assumption.

I had, up until recently, thought that.  How about you?  Were you aware of widespread theft of classified documents?  If so; see something, say something.  You have an obligation.

24 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

The only reason they searched Biden's residences was in an effort to fend off accusations of selective enforcement due to Trump's behavior.  They found a few things.    The world didn't stop rotating. 

Interesting, so you admit that the only reason they search his residence was to show he volutarily handed over classified documents.  I guess it was so the Dems can drive home the *if Trump just would have turned them over* narrative.  As I recall, the world didn’t stop rotating when Trump took his either.  It is interesting that some of the doc Biden had concerned governments Hunter had business dealings with.  No evidence though.

29 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Had Trump simply not been such an ass and cooperated with returning documents, there would have never been a search of his residences.  There would be no documents indictment today. 

Ah the narrative I was talking about.  The DOJ baited the man and he just couldn’t resist.  I’m not saying Trump isn’t at fault, but the man like to defy logic and he frequently pays.

[I_M4_AU 7,950]

28 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Most classified documents don't require a SCIF for them to be viewed.   We literally over classify most everything.  I'm certain that filing cabinets in the White House contain lots of documents marked classified.  Copies are made and distributed.  It is only a very few that are marked "Top Secret"

Are you saying Biden, when he was a Senator, never viewed classified documents in the SCIF? Or a you relying on plausible deniability?  He took classified documents and had no reasonable expectations of those documents ever being declassified.

[I_M4_AU 7,950]

7 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

So you agree that he was never told? Good - we've at least established that.

Biden also didn’t return them in 2017 when he knew he had them whether asked or not.  Was he waiting to be asked or was his intent to keep them until he was made to turn them over by circumstances beyoud his control?

12 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

if Trump had returned them, this discussion doesn't take place.

Ah, the Dem go to narrative.  The archives knew exactly where those documents were and they were under lock and key as directed by the FBI, not in an unsecured garage in Biden’s house that the archives and/or the FBI knew nothing about.

Biden voluntarily *handing over* the documents 6 years after he, by the Hur report, knew he had them and 2 months after his lawyers found them is really not a convincing argument that Biden cooperated.  He cooperated because is would look better when it came to the Trump case.

[Leftfield 2,643]

46 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Biden also didn’t return them in 2017 when he knew he had them whether asked or not.  Was he waiting to be asked or was his intent to keep them until he was made to turn them over by circumstances beyoud his control?

I...addressed this. I mean....I literally just addressed this in my last post.

 

46 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Ah, the Dem go to narrative.

Am I incorrect?

 

46 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

The archives knew exactly where those documents were and they were under lock and key as directed by the FBI, not in an unsecured garage in Biden’s house that the archives and/or the FBI knew nothing about.

Curious as to where you're getting this. If you read the indictment you'll see there is evidence to the contrary. Regardless, it doesn't do much good to keep the files locked if you're going to tell people about our allies' nuclear capabilities, anyway.

 

46 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

 He cooperated because is would look better when it came to the Trump case.

So?

Your argument against Biden is that he would have kept his documents if Trump hadn't been stupid enough to blab the contents of classified files and refuse to return them?

Edited February 14 by Leftfield

[I_M4_AU 7,950]

37 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

So?

Your argument against Biden is that he would have kept his documents if Trump hadn't been stupid enough to blab the contents of classified files and refuse to return them?

My argument is that Biden does not possess the upper hand in the classified document case because he *voluntarily* turned them in.  They both committed the same crime.

[Leftfield 2,643]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

My argument is that Biden does not possess the upper hand in the classified document case because he *voluntarily* turned them in.  They both committed the same crime.

Except....

.....THEY.....DIDN'T

Good God, man, how many times do you have to be told the same thing? Yes, they both kept classified documents, but Trump obstructed the recovery of them. Biden did no such thing, and your assertion that he would have kept them had Trump not been caught has no bearing on that fact.

If the courts dismiss the charges of retaining the documents to match precedent with other politicians, I have no problem with that. The punishment for obstruction is the far more severe charge, anyway.

 

Edited February 14 by Leftfield

[AU9377 5,024]

3 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Are you saying Biden, when he was a Senator, never viewed classified documents in the SCIF? Or a you relying on plausible deniability?  He took classified documents and had no reasonable expectations of those documents ever being declassified.

I'm not saying that.  I am saying that from what has been reported in the Special Counsel's findings, the relevant classified documents were from when he was VP.

What would Trump do today?  If he becomes President, we all know that he will declassify any and all documents in question impacting him and issue pardons for all, including himself.

[AU9377 5,024]

6 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

What I posted from the report only points out Biden knew he had classified documents well before he said he *voluntarily* turned those documents over.  If the precedent had been set, why doesn’t that excuse world for Trump?

The *Hur wasn’t moving any further* is a wild one.  The reason he states is the reason it is going to hurt Biden in the upcoming election.  If he does not have the mental acuity to stand trial; how could he operate as President?

Again, I’m not saying Hur is protecting Biden, its the media that didn’t dig into this incident until the report came out.  There was, recently, a special report that was investigated, but the media, to the point of a lot of people wanted to impeach a president before the report came out.  It wasn’t even close to the same.

Hur never said that he didn't have the mental acuity to stand trial.  That is a giant leap from what he actually said.

[I_M4_AU 7,950]

2 hours ago, Leftfield said:

Except....

.....THEY.....DIDN'T

Good God, man, how many times do you have to be told the same thing? Yes, they both kept classified documents, but Trump obstructed the recovery of them. Biden did no such thing, and your assertion that he would have kept them had Trump not been caught has no bearing on that fact.

If the courts dismiss the charges of retaining the documents to match precedent with other politicians, I have no problem with that. The punishment for obstruction is the far more severe charge, anyway.

 

Obstruction is a difference without a distinction.  You will never understand and it really doesn’t matter because this won’t get to trial before the election.

ETA:  With regard to *obstruction* they still have to prove it.

Edited February 15 by I_M4_AU

[I_M4_AU 7,950]

13 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

What would Trump do today?  If he becomes President, we all know that he will declassify any and all documents in question impacting him and issue pardons for all, including himself.

Do you think this will ever get to trial before the election?  If it doesn’t will the DOJ be vindictive enough to continue the trial if Trump is elected?  Yes, I do believe he will declassify the docs in question, something Biden couldn’t do at the time he took them.

[I_M4_AU 7,950]

14 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Hur never said that he didn't have the mental acuity to stand trial.  That is a giant leap from what he actually said.

It may be, but what people have seen of Biden in 3 years 86% of voters believe he is too old to serve another term.  He also isn’t helping his cause by not taking a cognitive test, the only president to ever do that.

[Leftfield 2,643]

13 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Obstruction is a difference without a distinction.  You will never understand...

What are you even talking about? Difference from what? Biden hasn't even been accused of obstruction, much less indicted.

It's stunning to me how blind you are. I've just sat back the past few days reading your exchanges with @auburnatl1and shaking my head, because the poor guy is going through exactly what I have since you've drifted into Trumpland....trying to reason with someone who simply can't. 

[I_M4_AU 7,950]

1 minute ago, Leftfield said:

What are you even talking about? Difference from what? Biden hasn't even been accused of obstruction, much less indicted.

It's stunning to me how blind you are. I've just sat back the past few days reading your exchanges with @auburnatl1and shaking my head, because the poor guy is going through exactly what I have since you've drifted into Trumpland....trying to reason with someone who simply can't. 

They have committed the same crime, you say the difference is *obstructions* (which hasn’t been proven) so the distinction between the two perps does not exist…no difference.  Biden will not be charged because a jury would find Joe is just too old and feeble.  He would present such a pitiful witness no one would convict.  This is the ONLY reason he is not being charged.  Yet he is strong enough to run the country.

Yet Trump has been charged.  And both have their fate decided from the same DOJ.

If you believe I am blind to your leftist views, why engage?  You really have to take account of yourself.

[Leftfield 2,643]

16 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

They have committed the same crime, you say the difference is *obstructions* (which hasn’t been proven) so the distinction between the two perps does not exist…no difference.  Biden will not be charged because a jury would find Joe is just too old and feeble.  He would present such a pitiful witness no one would convict.  This is the ONLY reason he is not being charged.  Yet he is strong enough to run the country.

Yet Trump has been charged.  And both have their fate decided from the same DOJ.

If you believe I am blind to your leftist views, why engage?  You really have to take account of yourself.

And this is why you're blind....you truly see no difference between their actions.

As previously explained, other people read this board. Much of what you post is just opinion, but when you try to tout BS facts I think it should be challenged. 

[AUFAN78 3,926]

[I_M4_AU 7,950]

Such a despicable politician:

 

Biden raised his son’s death after being asked about his workflow at a Virginia rental home from 2016 to 2018, the sources said, when a ghost writer was helping him write a memoir about losing Beau to brain cancer in 2015. Investigators had a 2017 recording showing that Biden had told the ghost writer he had found “classified stuff” in that home, the report says.

Biden began trying to recall that period by discussing what else was happening in his life, and it was at that point in the interview that he appeared confused about when Beau died, the sources said. Biden got the date — May 30 — correct, but not the year.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/biden-attacked-hur-asking-beau-died-didnt-happen-sources-say-rcna138709

[auburnatl1 5,007]

4 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Such a despicable politician:

 

Biden raised his son’s death after being asked about his workflow at a Virginia rental home from 2016 to 2018, the sources said, when a ghost writer was helping him write a memoir about losing Beau to brain cancer in 2015. Investigators had a 2017 recording showing that Biden had told the ghost writer he had found “classified stuff” in that home, the report says.

Biden began trying to recall that period by discussing what else was happening in his life, and it was at that point in the interview that he appeared confused about when Beau died, the sources said. Biden got the date — May 30 — correct, but not the year.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/biden-attacked-hur-asking-beau-died-didnt-happen-sources-say-rcna138709

Despicable.

Question - is this just Biden or do you feel this way about Bernie, AOC, Warren ect? When Obama was president for 8 yrs did you disagree with him on issues or was it more than that?
 

[I_M4_AU 7,950]

20 hours ago, auburnatl1 said:

Despicable.

Question - is this just Biden or do you feel this way about Bernie, AOC, Warren ect? When Obama was president for 8 yrs did you disagree with him on issues or was it more than that?
 

The man has been using his son’s death to garner sympathy since the day he died.  I’m sure originally he grieved and was heartbroken.  To continually use his death in the manner he has, especially to divert attention to his present situation, is in poor taste.  To lie about Fur as to asking a question Fur never asked and literally cry about being asked that question, when in reality, Biden brought the subject up is really questionable.

You have two choices: 1) he has memory loss so bad he didn’t realize how the subject came up in the questioning, or 2) he is of sound mind and willfully lied about the questioning to the American people to divert attention.  Either way, he doesn’t need to be in control of anything.

To answer you questions; Bernie and AOC are Marxist/socialists that have no real power.  AOC says a lot of socialist things out loud, but has no real power.  She is like the other squad members that bare watching in case someone with power ever starts to listen.

Warren is done with politics and is being passed over by the new Marxist/socialist.

Admittedly, I was working when Obama was President and my focus was not on politics, but he did grease the skids for what we see now.  It seems he did spy on Trumps campaign and disrupted the *peaceful transfer of power* in his own way.