Seems like a big deal

[creed 1,637]

Just now, I_M4_AU said:

This rule only applies to the underlings, not the powerful.

Not sure what you're trying to say unless you're trying say rich people or people in government play with a different set of rules. In either case, I don't care, and stick by my original comment.

[AU9377 4,931]

2 minutes ago, creed said:

Hand written notes are the property of the government. They were paid for with our taxes. So, in short Biden (and Trump) stole our work products, and they both should be excluded from seeking any federal position forever.

Sure they are, but do you really believe that every person to occupy an office at that level hasn't kept notes of some kind somewhere?  That would be naive to say the least. There is also the point to be made that all classified material isn't the same.  Documents are commonly found, so much so that the Archives has a what to do section on their website detailing the process for ensuring the return of documents.  If Trump had not been so brazen in his taking of documents, there would have never been an investigation concerning Biden or Pence.  That was done in an effort to show impartiality, which Republicans refuse to acknowledge.

[auburnatl1 4,920]

1 minute ago, I_M4_AU said:

That’s the point isn’t it.  Biden didn’t self report, he had no recall of any of these documents were there, if his lawyer didn’t find them he would have never known they were there.  Add to that, they found them around November of 2021 close to the mid term election and didn’t disclose it until December/January time frame.  Why the delay?

The report said Biden didn’t know when he started or finished his term as VP, is it a stretch to believe he didn’t know of these documents when they were found in November of 2021?

I would guess you didn’t remember this discrepancy or it just doesn’t matter to you because you want Joe to succeed in his bid for the President.  Is this it?

 

Fine. He had his lawyers self report. If you can’t see the difference between that and what Trump did - not sure what to say. 

Again, imo Biden and Trump have disqualified themselves for a zillion competency, ethics, and good for the country reasons. Obviously I’m in denial because I don’t believe either of them should even have valid drivers licenses - much less be presidential candidates.

[AU9377 4,931]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

If Trump wins in November he will not be able to force anything until January 20th 2025.  The real question is; will the Biden DOJ be vindictive enough to continue the witch hunt?  You’re only speculating about hunting down the people that speak against him.  He didn’t with Hillary in 2017.

It remains to be seen which DOJ was more professional

Really?

The man demanded how many AGs break the law on his behalf?  Every one of them that he appointed.

The fact is that Biden has never been my favorite candidate, but compared to the alternative, he is the better choice from my point of view.  I would give Haley a great amount of consideration if she was the Republican candidate.  You all seem hell bent of that not being the case.

Edited February 9 by AU9377

[I_M4_AU 7,837]

10 minutes ago, creed said:

Not sure what you're trying to say unless you're trying say rich people or people in government play with a different set of rules. In either case, I don't care, and stick by my original comment.

Everytime we see classified documents being overlooked it is with powerful polititians, if it were a member of the armed services, they would be in jail.  It’s as simple as that.  It really doesn’t matter if you believe it or not.  This is not personal, just the facts.

[I_M4_AU 7,837]

7 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

Fine. He had his lawyers self report. If you can’t see the difference between that and what Trump did - not sure what to say. 

Again, imo Biden and Trump have disqualified themselves for a zillion competency, ethics, and good for the country reasons. Obviously I’m in denial because I don’t believe either of them should even have valid drivers licenses - much less be presidential candidates.

You keep defending Biden and I’m just wondering why.  

[creed 1,637]

19 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Sure they are, but do you really believe that every person to occupy an office at that level hasn't kept notes of some kind somewhere?  That would be naive to say the least. There is also the point to be made that all classified material isn't the same.  Documents are commonly found, so much so that the Archives has a what to do section on their website detailing the process for ensuring the return of documents.  If Trump had not been so brazen in his taking of documents, there would have never been an investigation concerning Biden or Pence.  That was done in an effort to show impartiality, which Republicans refuse to acknowledge.

I have been crystal clear in my previous statements on this covering many threads and it goes like this. 

1 - On the first day of any federal position the only thing you can bring from a personal standpoint is family picutures. That's it.

2 - All other needs are supplied and owned by the taxpayer. Briefcase, pens, computer, cell phone, any work product including notes, etc.

3 - On the last day of federal employment. You gather your family pictures and leave everything else behind. 

Edited February 9 by creed

[I_M4_AU 7,837]

9 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Really?

The man demanded how many AGs break the law on his behalf?  Every one of them that he appointed.

The fact is that Biden has never been my favorite candidate, but compared to the alternative, he is the better choice from my point of view.  I would give Haley a great amount of consideration if she was the Republican candidate.  You all seem hell bent of that not being the case.

Are you saying, even after what the special council reported and Biden confirming his dementia, you would still vote for Biden?  I know you wouldn’t vote for Trump, so what is it.  

[creed 1,637]

11 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

Fine. He had his lawyers self report. If you can’t see the difference between that and what Trump did - not sure what to say. 

Again, imo Biden and Trump have disqualified themselves for a zillion competency, ethics, and good for the country reasons. Obviously I’m in denial because I don’t believe either of them should even have valid drivers licenses - much less be presidential candidates.

Sure he had his lawyers check on his stuff. But, do you think he would had self reported if Trump hadn't been caught?

Bottom line is both of these bozos are not fit for office. 

[CoffeeTiger 5,108]

Quote

"The President's inability to recall dates or details of events that happened years ago is neither surprising nor unusual, especially given that many questions asked him to recall the particulars of staff work to pack. ship, and store materials and furniture in the course of moves between residences. The same predictable memory loss occurred with other witnesses in this investigation. Yet unlike your treatment of President Biden, your report accepts other witnesses' memory loss as completely understandable given the passage of time. For example. you accepted without denigrating John McGrail's failure to remember certain events while he served as then-Vice President Biden's counsel: ''McGrail's memory of these events could well have faded over the course of more than 6 years." Report at 238 n.923; see also id at 67. 69 noting Mr. McGrail's failure to recall events despite emails that place him in the center of various discussions). So, too, you accept the memory lapse of one of the President's personal lawyers who testified that in his initial search of the Penn Biden offices certain boxes were stored in a locked closet, noting only that "his memory was fuzzy on that point." Id at 265. And the events on which you found the lawyer's memory to be '·fuzzy'' occurred only a few months before his interview. Id; see also id at 64, 66 (noting without comment the failures of recollection by numerous staffers).

Your treatment of President Biden stands in marked contrast to the lack of pejorative comments about other individuals. It is also in contrast to your own description of the President's responses on other subjects as '·clear forceful testimony" that would be "compelling" to a jury. Id. at 233. Not only do you treat the President differently from other witnesses when discussing his limited recall of certain years-ago events. but you also do so on occasions in prejudicial and inflammatory terms. You refer to President Biden's memory on at least nine occasions-a number that is itself gratuitous. But. even among those nine instances, your report varies. It is one thing to observe President Biden's memory as being "significantly limited" on certain subjects. Id. at 5. It is quite another to use the more sweeping and highly prejudicial language employed later in the report. This language is not supported by the facts, nor is it appropriately used by a federal prosecutor in this context.

We request that you revisit your descriptions of President Biden's memory and revise them so that they are stated in a manner that is within the bounds of your expertise and remit."

https://www.justice.gov/storage/report-from-special-counsel-robert-k-hur-february-2024.pdf

This is a DOJ response to Hurr questioning why the report focuses so much on Biden's memory while seemingly accepting and excusing  the 'memory issues' of other people who were interviewed. 

[auburnatl1 4,920]

3 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

You keep defending Biden and I’m just wondering why.  

Showing disdain for both of them is not defending Biden.  It amazes me maga can’t acknowledge their own candidate is probably more corrupt. Basic Sunday school stuff.

Even the Dems are now questioning  Biden. But Maga ..  still mired in a messiah syndrome. 

[I_M4_AU 7,837]

2 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

Showing disdain for both of them is not defending Biden.  It amazes me maga can’t acknowledge their own candidate is probably more corrupt. Basic Sunday school stuff.

Even the Dems are now questioning  Biden. But Maga ..  still mired in a messiah syndrome. 

Every time something about Biden is reported you automatically post a whataboutism about Trump.  Dems are not questioning Biden they, for the time being, are in lock step with him.  The press (and this is probably where you are confused) is starting to question him.

[auburnatl1 4,920]

46 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Every time something about Biden is reported you automatically post a whataboutism about Trump.  Dems are not questioning Biden they, for the time being, are in lock step with him.  The press (and this is probably where you are confused) is starting to question him.

Yep, I’m definitely the one hopelessly confused.

[auburnatl1 4,920]

1 hour ago, creed said:

Sure he had his lawyers check on his stuff. But, do you think he would had self reported if Trump hadn't been caught?

Bottom line is both of these bozos are not fit for office. 

We agree.

[AU9377 4,931]

4 hours ago, creed said:

I have been crystal clear in my previous statements on this covering many threads and it goes like this. 

1 - On the first day of any federal position the only thing you can bring from a personal standpoint is family picutures. That's it.

2 - All other needs are supplied and owned by the taxpayer. Briefcase, pens, computer, cell phone, any work product including notes, etc.

3 - On the last day of federal employment. You gather your family pictures and leave everything else behind. 

Yes, if you are a federal employee.  It isn't an apples to apples comparison when you are talking about a member of the Executive branch.  All classified documents don't require a secure room for them to be viewed.  We classify so many things that it isn't uncommon to read something in the WSJ and to have a memo marked classified that contains the same information.

The President can give anyone he or she wants a security clearance and can declassify materials at his or her discretion.  The only requirement is that the procedures be followed that are in place to do so.

Again, none of this is even an issue today, but for Trump's outlandish refusal to give back boxes and boxes of documents and thereafter obstructing efforts to retrieve the documents by way of a warrant.

[AU9377 4,931]

4 hours ago, creed said:

Sure he had his lawyers check on his stuff. But, do you think he would had self reported if Trump hadn't been caught?

Bottom line is both of these bozos are not fit for office. 

The point is that it isn't likely even newsworthy but for Trump's refusal to comply with Federal law.  Had Trump simply returned the documents requested, no indictment is sought and no charges are forthcoming.  When Biden self reported, the Archives would have handled it by way of their procedure and no Special Counsel would have been necessary.

[AU9377 4,931]

4 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Every time something about Biden is reported you automatically post a whataboutism about Trump.  Dems are not questioning Biden they, for the time being, are in lock step with him.  The press (and this is probably where you are confused) is starting to question him.

Biden deserves to be questioned.  However, some of you act as though the two fact patterns are in any way similar.  They aren't. 

[creed 1,637]

5 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Yes, if you are a federal employee.  It isn't an apples to apples comparison when you are talking about a member of the Executive branch.  All classified documents don't require a secure room for them to be viewed.  We classify so many things that it isn't uncommon to read something in the WSJ and to have a memo marked classified that contains the same information.

The President can give anyone he or she wants a security clearance and can declassify materials at his or her discretion.  The only requirement is that the procedures be followed that are in place to do so.

Again, none of this is even an issue today, but for Trump's outlandish refusal to give back boxes and boxes of documents and thereafter obstructing efforts to retrieve the documents by way of a warrant.

That's fine, declassify, give someone security clearance, but at the end of the day those documents, notes or any work products don't leave the office and wind up in someone's storage room or garage.

You only leave with what you brought and what you bring is limited to a few photos of you wife, kids and maybe if you're nice a picture of grandma...

 

[creed 1,637]

19 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

The point is that it isn't likely even newsworthy but for Trump's refusal to comply with Federal law.  Had Trump simply returned the documents requested, no indictment is sought and no charges are forthcoming.  When Biden self reported, the Archives would have handled it by way of their procedure and no Special Counsel would have been necessary.

You or I don't know what has happened to those documents while they were out of control. I could argue that the willingness to return documents is based on their current value. For Trump, maybe he wanted to keep them longer because he hadn't had a chance to make copies before satisfying the return order. For Biden, maybe he had made all the copies he wanted and didn't need the originals anymore.

Lot's of unknowns to speak in definites.

 

Edited February 10 by creed

[AU9377 4,931]

1 hour ago, creed said:

You or I don't know what has happened to those documents while they were out of control. I could argue that the willingness to return documents is based on their current value. For Trump, maybe he wanted to keep them longer because he hadn't had a chance to make copies before satisfying the return order. For Biden, maybe he had made all the copies he wanted and didn't need the originals anymore.

Lot's of unknowns to speak in definites.

 

The Archives was not aware that Biden was in possession of documents.  They knew exactly which documents Trump had and spent over a year pleading with him to return them.  If Biden wanted to hide something, he could have not done what was required and none of us would have had a clue.  Instead, he did what the law required him to do, which was alert the archives and return the documents.  We know that without presuming.  We also know that he then consented to a search of his properties.  A warrant was required to search Trump's residence.

Those are known facts.  Presuming the universe of possibilities is a waste of time.

[Son of A Tiger 561]

7 hours ago, auburnatl1 said:

Dear lord. Read the report. He wasn’t “caught”. He and his attorneys self reported. Same with Pence.

And how long had the documents been scattered unprotected on his garage floor for anyone to see before Biden self reported?

In contrast, the documents Trump had were in cabinets and boxes behind the gates of Mar Largo where they were visible to Secret Service personnel.

Bottom line to it all as I understand it all form listening to legal experts.........Biden could be charged with criminal violation of classified documents laws whereas Trump is likely only guilty of obstruction of justice.

But caveat emptor.....I'm not a lawyer.

[Son of A Tiger 561]

7 hours ago, creed said:

I have been crystal clear in my previous statements on this covering many threads and it goes like this. 

1 - On the first day of any federal position the only thing you can bring from a personal standpoint is family picutures. That's it.

2 - All other needs are supplied and owned by the taxpayer. Briefcase, pens, computer, cell phone, any work product including notes, etc.

3 - On the last day of federal employment. You gather your family pictures and leave everything else behind. 

Absolutely not true.

[auburnatl1 4,920]

9 minutes ago, Son of A Tiger said:

And how long had the documents been scattered unprotected on his garage floor for anyone to see before Biden self reported?

In contrast, the documents Trump had were in cabinets and boxes behind the gates of Mar Largo where they were visible to Secret Service personnel.

Bottom line to it all as I understand it all form listening to legal experts.........Biden could be charged with criminal violation of classified documents laws whereas Trump is likely only guilty of obstruction of justice.

But caveat emptor.....I'm not a lawyer.

Why wouldn’t Trump return them?

[Son of A Tiger 561]

44 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

The Archives was not aware that Biden was in possession of documents.  

And why do you suppose that is the case? Some of those documents date back to when he was a Senator so the Archives should have known about them unless........???

Edited February 10 by Son of A Tiger

[Son of A Tiger 561]

2 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

Why wouldn’t Trump return them?

He wrongly thought he didn't have to. But they weren't laying around for anyone to see like in the Biden case. Trump's position should have been decided in the courts, not by the FBI with CNN advised of the pending raid ahead of time.