SGA bans X-mas Tree

[vatz22au 142]

Hate to break it to the SGA, but the word "Holiday" comes from the words "HOLY DAY"...  they haven't helped themselves...

Freaking Pinkos.  They need to go to bammer.

204037[/snapback]

We all have to understand that the word "holy" could concern the same fact they were trying to point out. Believe it or not, Auburn University is quite diverse...maybe not compared to other universities around the country, but in the state of Alabama...diversity is huge in Auburn. We have buddhists, jews, christians, muslims, & hindus....with other lesser known religions. Holy is a word described in most all of those religions.

I can say that I dont quite agree with the SGA here, but I do not have a problem with it as well. I think its up to the person whether its a christmas tree or not....Labels shouldn't mean much to a person.

[eagle76 1]

To those that think that this is a SMALL issue----------

In the sixties a lawsuit was filed to ban praying is school. It met with some opposition from the silent majority but no one really gave it much thought. All through the sixties, seventies, and into the eighties, schools still had morning prayers and prayers were said before mostl football games, etc. Then the very vocal, very minority (as in numbers) pursued this issue in the counts to its fullest and now we have what we have today. No one can say anything about anyone for fear of offending someone or being sued. I believe that everyone has the right to believe the way they want, but I am damned tired of the minority telling me what/who/how/why I can celebrate or express my beliefs. If I'm not mistaken, this country was founded by Christians (followers of Christ with many denominations) on the principal of freedom of religion, not freedom FROM religion. Let's look at AU's history, we we founded as a religious school that evolved into a technical and agricultural school. Let's not forget our roots.

SORRY. I'm off my soap box now. Who say religion and politics can't mix????? It does every time I go to vote.

[Streyeder 0]

Gotta love how AU gives all of our info to the public:

http://www.auburn.edu/main/ldap.html

Plainsmen Opinion:

letters@theplainsman.com

John Tatum (SGA Pres)

tatumjh@auburn.edu

Article about SGA meeting vote:

http://www.theplainsman.com/vnews/display....6/4395c1d4922ae

[Boonan 0]

I really love th eletter form the SGA prez... typical poiltispeak. Don't worry, we'll make it all better.... which really means... we'll put it off until everyone forgets about it so we don't have to actually stand for anything while trying to make it sound like I am doing something to help you.

[ValleyTiger 2,894]

Quit bashin' the ACLU - there is no mention of their involvement.

It is never the wrong time to bash the ACLU. Off topic but I must rant about an organization that helps two men that raped and killed a young boy go free.

Also Kingfish,

Breaking News: None of us are early Christians. It took some digging and sifting to find those facts and I would be safe in saying that most people don't know Greek. Therefore to the majority the "X" does not represent Christ. Tell me one thing. What does it harm to write out the whole word? Are we going to start referring to Christians as X-ians?

[ADS91DVM95 0]

This whole PC thing is ridculous. EVERYBODY knows what a Christmas tree is. What is next, do we call vatz22au's Dad's Manora a "Holiday Candlestick"? I have never considered a Christmas tree a religious symbol and Christmas has been hijacked by commercialism, but you have to draw the line somewhere.

JC

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Gotta love how AU gives all of our info to the public:

http://www.auburn.edu/main/ldap.html

Plainsmen Opinion:

letters@theplainsman.com

John Tatum (SGA Pres)

tatumjh@auburn.edu

Article about SGA meeting vote:

http://www.theplainsman.com/vnews/display....6/4395c1d4922ae

204049[/snapback]

Strey....we just want to keep up with alien fans

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

I really love th eletter form the SGA prez... typical poiltispeak. Don't worry, we'll make it all better.... which really means... we'll put it off until everyone forgets about it so we don't have to actually stand for anything while trying to make it sound like I am doing something to help you.

204051[/snapback]

He will make a good Democrat

[BamaGrad03 0]

Since when did the observation of one's religion automatically indicate the persecution of all others?

America today has said that if you are Christian and you want to openly observe or reflect upon your Christianity, you are OFFENDING everyone else. So dont do it.

But people go out of their way to fight for the rights of people of other religions to openly express themselves...except for christians.

If someone said to me "Happy Kwanza" it wouldnt offend me. That's the "holiday" they observe. Just like if I said Merry Christmas they shouldnt be offended either.

[tiger88 934]

I agree with the seperation of church and state so I have no problem with them calling it a Holiday Tree.

Whats funny is that the thing hasn't been called a Christmas Tree for years now and everything was fine. Now word gets out and the end of the world is near. Get a grip people.

[CrimsonPirate 0]

Hate to break it to the SGA, but the word "Holiday" comes from the words "HOLY DAY"...  they haven't helped themselves...

Freaking Pinkos.  They need to go to bammer.

204037[/snapback]

Sorry, Jenny. This is not a Bama vs. Auburn thing. None of us think it's a good thing, either. But, look, it was AU's SGA, not Bama's.

[swensks 0]

How does the word "Christmas" actually offend people? It's like being offended by the word "chicken" or "mail" or "couch." Get a grip on yourselves, folks! In a country where the Democrats scream for diversity and understanding among its citizens (and non-citizens and resident legal and illegal aliens), they turn right back around and take those exact things away from the great majority of the people.

I know that many of us are saying the same thing over and over, but I just felt like I had to say my piece.

I hope you all have wonderful Christmas's, Chanukahs, etc. I don't know if there are any other religious holidays in December. Maybe somebody smarter than me knows this.

WDE

[tiger88 934]

Since when did the observation of one's religion automatically indicate the persecution of all others?

America today has said that if you are Christian and you want to openly observe or reflect upon your Christianity, you are OFFENDING everyone else. So dont do it.

But people go out of their way to fight for the rights of people of other religions to openly express themselves...except for christians.

If someone said to me "Happy Kwanza" it wouldnt offend me. That's the "holiday" they observe. Just like if I said Merry Christmas they shouldnt be offended either.

204061[/snapback]

The thing is that anyone can practice and preach any religion they want to and they do.

It's not persecution bg it's exclusion and it relates to Government endorsing a religion which is where the problem comes in.

Reading this thread you would think Christians in this country were one notch above slaves when the opposite is true. Christianity is, of course, the #1 religion in America and if you can get from home to work without seeing dozens and dozens of reminders about Christianity, and this time of the year, Christmas, you don't have far to travel.

I personally am fine with it if not one of my tax dollars goes to supporting religions of any shape, form, or fashion. As far as I'm concerned the Government can keep their slimy noses out of religion altogether. I'll take care of my own spiritual and religous needs thank you very much.

With that being said Merry Christmas to all who celbrate it and Happy Holidays to the rest.

[tiger88 934]

Hate to break it to the SGA, but the word "Holiday" comes from the words "HOLY DAY"...  they haven't helped themselves...

Freaking Pinkos.  They need to go to bammer.

204037[/snapback]

Err, uhhh. Holiday is non-specific while Christmas isn't, so I'd say they accomplished exactly what they set out to do which is attempt to be fair to all religions. May God strike them all down soon .

[AUTrey 0]

I agree with the seperation of church and state so I have no problem with them calling it a Holiday Tree.

Whats funny is that the thing hasn't been called a Christmas Tree for years now and everything was fine. Now word gets out and the end of the world is near.    Get a grip people.

204068[/snapback]

The reason everyone is flipping out now is that we didn't know before. It's not even the calling it a Holiday Tree that sets me off, per se. It's them saying "In order to not offend Mahkmud and Ishmael over here, and Michael Newdow over there, we are going to offend you...and ten thousand others." It's the fact that it has been a Christmas Tree for as long as we've hung ornaments on small, pointy trees inside our house. But now, suddenly, it is offensive and devisive to call it that.

I really don't think it has anything to do with seperation of Church and state. I didn't see anything about that anywhere. It's all about tolerance and diversity. Nobody asked for this. I'm sick of being told what is offensive, being told what I can do and what I can't do, all because someone might get their feelings hurt. Noone's feelings got hurt in 1846 or 1913 or 1949 or 1986. Why do they get hurt now?

Not trying to call you out or anything, but it is responses like your's that REALLY set me off. When things were the old way, when I was happy, we had to change everything because someone was left out or offended. So we change it, and I'm left out, and I'm offended, and what happens? I hear cool down, don't worry about it, it will be ok, get a grip...etc. Why didn't anybody say that when the thought first came up to change the name? In 2000, when some guy complained about being left out, why did nobody say "Calm down buddy. Get a grip, it's just a tree."

I'm going to stop now before I put my head through a wall. I just don't understand why it's ok to offend me, but its not ok to offend a black guy, a Korean, or a Muslim.

[vatz22au 142]

This whole PC thing is ridculous. EVERYBODY knows what a Christmas tree is. What is next, do we call vatz22au's Dad's Manora a "Holiday Candlestick"? I have never considered a Christmas tree a religious symbol and Christmas has been hijacked by commercialism, but you have to draw the line somewhere.

JC

204056[/snapback]

I understand your context but your post is out of line. I have stated the respect of all religions on this thread. I understand both christian and out of religion viewpoints and both are valid in my opinion. Y'all have demonstrated fair and good arguments.

According to the words I bolded, I do understand the point. I even stated that I dont quite agree, but I have no problem with it. You have to understand most religions to make a statement like that ads91dvm95.... The menorah to the jews aint like the christmas tree is with christians...and when you get down to it, most will agree. The christmas tree is a signature of America and its great strives (nothing but props to that)...to add to that, the christmas tree is almost significantly directed to American view..... Matter of fact, most countries that celebrate christmas dont even recognize the christmas tree. But when comparing the Menorah...that is a holy thing even noted in some Jewish religious texts for thousands of years. The christmas tree didnt even get its start till the industrial revolution. I dont think the same thing compares here.

All that said...again stated, each argument has its fair values. I dont agree or disagree with the SGA here. I feel like each to his own.......if you see its christmas go right ahead and lable it so. If not, then do the oppposite.

[japantiger 4,051]

The ACLU, media and the tyranny of the minority is the issue with all of this.

- I have to respect all religious expression; except Christianity

- It is OK to racial profile for college admissions, job applications, hiring, firing, etc., but we can't racial profile at airports and borders to protect our citizens and national security

- Democrats can say anything about anybody without regard to the facts because of their intentions and it gets reported as fact; Republicans tell the truth and can't buy space because of their presumed intentions (the latest Dean-ism as an example; Zarqawi came to Iraq 1 year before we invaded Mr. Dean.....he came their to get treatment for wounds received in Afghanistan where we almost killed him; he did not come to Iraq to fight us as you claim, we weren't there yet.....oh yes there's another one, there wasn't a connection between AlQuida and Saddam before we invaded either.... .....

ad nauseum.........

[Guest Tigrinum Major]

I really love th eletter form the SGA prez... typical poiltispeak. Don't worry, we'll make it all better.... which really means... we'll put it off until everyone forgets about it so we don't have to actually stand for anything while trying to make it sound like I am doing something to help you.

204051[/snapback]

The point that is missed in his argument (basically, "we don't want to leave anyone out") is that there is no such thing as a "Hannukkah Tree" or a "Ramadan Tree" or anything else besides a Christmas Tree, unless Kwanzaa has something similiar. Why should these groups be included in the lighting of a Christmas tree. If any of them wanted to celebrate their own religious beliefs, in public, then I would have no problem with it.

I am upset that there is no Festivus Pole, Feats of Strength and an Airing of Grievances.

I agree with the seperation of church and state so I have no problem with them calling it a Holiday Tree.

Whats funny is that the thing hasn't been called a Christmas Tree for years now and everything was fine. Now word gets out and the end of the world is near.    Get a grip people.

204068[/snapback]

Your beliefs are different from mine (not that there is anything wrong with that,) so I can see why you would have no problem with the wording.

And, as already stated, the reason it is now a problem is that word did "get out", as you put it. If my neighbor is killing people and burying them behind his house and I don't know about it, when the police uncover his deeds is the crime any less?

This whole PC thing is ridculous. EVERYBODY knows what a Christmas tree is. What is next, do we call vatz22au's Dad's Manora a "Holiday Candlestick"? I have never considered a Christmas tree a religious symbol and Christmas has been hijacked by commercialism, but you have to draw the line somewhere.

JC

204056[/snapback]

I understand your context but your post is out of line. I have stated the respect of all religions on this thread. I understand both christian and out of religion viewpoints and both are valid in my opinion. Y'all have demonstrated fair and good arguments.

According to the words I bolded, I do understand the point. I even stated that I dont quite agree, but I have no problem with it. You have to understand most religions to make a statement like that ads91dvm95.... The menorah to the jews aint like the christmas tree is with christians...and when you get down to it, most will agree. The christmas tree is a the signature of America and its great strives (nothing but props to that)...to add to that, the christmas tree is almost significantly directed to American view..... Matter of fact, most countries that celebrate christmas dont even recognize the christmas tree. But when comparing the Menorah...that is a holy thing even noted in some Jewish religious texts for thousands of years. The christmas tree didnt even get its start till the industrial revolution. I dont think the same thing compares here.

All that said...again stated, each argument has its fair values. I dont agree or disagree with the SGA here. I feel like each to his own.......if you see its christmas go right ahead and lable it so. If not, then do the oppposite.

204104[/snapback]

vatz brings up a good point here, the Christmas tree is more of a secular symbol of the holiday rather than a religious symbol. In fact, I know many Christians that do not celebrate the secular aspect of Christmas and some that do nothing for it, secular or religious. Their point is that the birth of Christ did nothing for us, but his death and resurrection are the important things we should focus on. And shouldn't we focus on these things all the time, not just a month out of the year?

That being said, I support calling the tree a Christmas tree and not a Holiday tree, based on the fact that Christmas is the only holiday that I know of that uses a Christmas Tree.

This has been a good discussion from all sides.

[AUesquire 1]

TMajor, you beat me to it. I read the letter on the Football Forum first and came over here to respond with the exact same thought. WHY must we change OUR method of celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ to accomodate those that don't believe, worship a different "God", or anyone whom we might offend? The SGA misses the point COMPLETELY!

[ValleyTiger 2,894]

All conservative Republicans out there(me included) should just face the fact that things will continue to get worse. Things of more importance than the label of a tree will be changed for the sake of the minority until the majority steps up and refuses to let it happen any longer.

This has been LiLAuBiE speaking politically....War Eagle

[AUesquire 1]

LilAubie, your point is well taken and I think that is EXACTLY what is happening here. This may seem like a trivial issue to some but the "Minority" IS stepping up and saying "NO, we will not let you chip away any more."

You are NOT going to call this time for celebration anything other than it is. You are NOT going to ban a manger scene, you are NOT going to keep our high school kids from gathering for a prayer vigil on campus.....and on and on and on...

[Guest Tigrinum Major]

The issue has hit the Capstone:

The UA tree hasn't been named and won't be, UA spokeswoman Cathy Andreen said.

"If people want to refer to it as a 'Christmas tree' or as a 'holiday tree,' it's up to them," she said.

Well, how Christian of her to say that. It appears that both SGAs are populated by resume building future liberal politicians.

link:The Crimson White

[CrimsonPride 0]

The issue has hit the Capstone:

The UA tree hasn't been named and won't be, UA spokeswoman Cathy Andreen said.

"If people want to refer to it as a 'Christmas tree' or as a 'holiday tree,' it's up to them," she said.

Well, how Christian of her to say that. It appears that both SGAs are populated by resume building future liberal politicians.

link:The Crimson White

204257[/snapback]

You beat me to it TM, I followed this page over from RTB to see what's y'all's reaction was and then to talk a little about what our resident wackos in Ttown are doing too.

It was awfully nice of our Administration to allow anyone to call it what they may . On our campus, the SGA is pointless and full of nothing but future opportunist politcians like Don Siegelman . So, our SGA has no power over this problem and it would accomplish nothing even if they were.

My favorite statement from our CW article is "Hanukkah, Christmas and Kwanzaa are represented in a display in the Ferguson Center." The Ferguson Center is our student union building for those not familiar with it. I've seen these displays on more than one occasion and there is nothing to do with Christmas in them. The best they can muster is a big red stocking and a miniature Santa. To put such a thing as a cross or a manger scene in these displays, I suppose, would be considered government establishment of religion .

I've said it before, the Leftists are in charge at pretty much every University these days. Even at places like AU, they have the final say. It sickens me. I've also said this before, the only way these people will back down is if they are confronted. They are not concerned with protecting anyone's rights, only establishing a broader social agenda whether it be conciously or subconciously. Sitting back in our chairs and observing will only lead to what it has lead to for 40 to 50 years now and that is a further secularization of this country.

Although the ACLU isn't (typo earlier, sorry) directly involved with this situation, it is a certainty that they would be involved if such a thing as a cross or manger scene were to be displayed on any government property. They are as much to blame as anyone for the current state of affairs.

It's not a Bama or Auburn problem, it's an American problem.

[tiger88 934]

I agree with the seperation of church and state so I have no problem with them calling it a Holiday Tree.

Whats funny is that the thing hasn't been called a Christmas Tree for years now and everything was fine. Now word gets out and the end of the world is near.    Get a grip people.

204068[/snapback]

Your beliefs are different from mine (not that there is anything wrong with that,) so I can see why you would have no problem with the wording.

And, as already stated, the reason it is now a problem is that word did "get out", as you put it. If my neighbor is killing people and burying them behind his house and I don't know about it, when the police uncover his deeds is the crime any less?

I celebrate Christmas and always have a Christmas Tree in the house during the holidays.

Your comparison is a little wild to me. The crime of murder speaks for itself whether it is known of or a secret.

What exactly is the crime in a largely government/tax dollar funded school naming a "Christmas" tree a "Holiday" tree in order to attempt to be religiously fair to all who attend the school? Who is going to suffer from this other than the Christians who are needlessly working themselves into a tizzy over this trivial issue.

(TM, the rest is not directed at you, but to this thread in general.)

I mean, call the thing a Christmas tree!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who gives a flip what the University is calling it????????? Tell your son, daughter, friends, enemies, mom, dad, whoever, "Hey look at the CHRISTMAS TREE"! Nobody's gonna arrest you. Nobody's gonna say you are persecuting anyone. Oh, the melodrama on this thread.

Some of the Christians on this board are getting as bad or worse than the Jesse Jackson's of the world with the cry foul and ask questions later mentality. If Jesse doesn't like it then it's racism. If the Christians don't like it, it is unfair "persecution" and the system is out to get them and hold them down.

In actuality the system is just trying to be fair to all religions. What is the crime in that? If your answer is that Christianity is the true religion and Christ is the only way, etc. etc. then remember, there are literally billions of people in the world who disagree with you.

[Guest Tigrinum Major]

I celebrate Christmas and always have a Christmas Tree in the house during the holidays.

Your comparison is a little wild to me. The crime of murder speaks for itself whether it is known of or a secret.

What exactly is the crime in a largely government/tax dollar funded school naming a "Christmas" tree a "Holiday" tree in order to attempt to be religiously fair to all who attend the school? Who is going to suffer from this other than the Christians who are needlessly working themselves into a tizzy over this trivial issue.

204296[/snapback]

Yes, the comparision was wild and outlandish. I am given to hyperbole at times.

It isn't a crime, but as stated before, the problem I have is that there is no such animal as a Hannukkah Tree or a Ramadan Tree, so why do we feel compelled to designate it as a Holiday Tree to be inclusive?

Even if a person only celebrates the secular aspects of Christmas, it is still a Christmas tree, as you have stated. Call it that! It appears we agree on that point, just not the issue of the "official" designation. I don't try to dress up a porkchop and call it "beef", so I won't offend a Jewish person. We all have beliefs that are contrary to others. I just want the government and psuedo-politicians of the SGA to quit trying to meld everything together in the name of inclusiveness and diversity.

Ok, I am off my soapbox once again.