Amnesty..Pure and simple

[CCTAU 3,344]

He put it like we need to hear it. This whole situation is not fair to the millions of LEGAL immigrants. Besides, we already accept a 2 year visa for these guys. Problem is, when the 2 years are up, they don't go home. What will be different this time?

AMNESTY .. PURE AND SIMPLE

Well the day is finally here. It is a day where our Congress and our President have come together to grant legal residency and then citizenship to millions of illegal aliens who broke the law. Criminals in this country will be on a fast track to becoming citizens, with the same rights and benefits as you and me.

A couple of points about the proposal:

First, there are only vague references to closing our borders. It won't happen. The borders will remain porous and the Mexican invasion of the United States will continue. The count now is between 12 and 20 million. That doesn't include the six million that have been granted amnesty in previous "deals." Over the next few years we'll see millions more come .... they'll either try to get in on this amnesty deal or they'll wait around for the next one. And there will be a next one. Neither political party has the will to do something to stem the tide of this invasion.

The bill calls for criminal aliens to step forward to obtain something called a "Z" visa. (Would that be for Zorro?) They have to pay some fees and a $5000 fine. Ain't gonna happen. Liberals and illegal immigration proponents are going to scream asesinato sangriento about this fee. "These poor people can't afford to pay the fee. You're taking food out of the mouths of their children ... etc, etc." We won't collect enough in those fees to fuel one Humvee.

The bill also says that heads of household will have to return to their own countries before they can get the Zorro Visa. What's the point? They leave their wives and children here and go home .. then come back to get the visa? The only way this will work is if that visa is only issued in the country where that person has citizenship. No Zorro Visas issued in the US. We'll see what's in the bill.

We're also told that every new crop of "guest workers" will have to return home after stints of two years. Yeah? How are we going to make this happen? Are we going to place harsh punishment on anyone who pays them after they're supposed to have gone home? How about landlords who provide them a place to hide?

Come on ... let's get serious here.

President Bush says this bill would "treat people with respect." Respect? How about the respect they showed for our laws? They're criminals! They told our country to take it's law and empujelos donde el sol no brilla! (Look, my Spanish isn't perfect here .. I'm trying.) Now we're talking about treating criminals with respect? There are millions of people around the world who are trying to get into this country legally. They apply for visas. The fill out the paperwork. The answer the questions. The study our language. And they wait --- they wait until the legal process has run its course, then they come into this country and try to assimilate. These are the ones who are owed our respect, not the criminals who cross the border illegally, work here illegally, stay here illegally ... and often avoid paying taxes.

Amnesty? Hell yes it's amnesty! The dictionary defines amnesty as "forgetting or overlooking of any past offense" or "an act of forgiveness for past offenses." Any way you look at it this bill does just that.

The reaction to this bill? Well, many Democrats like John Edwards are not too pleased with the temporary guest worker program. Others like McCain were standing right by Ted Kennedy as he announced the plan. So far as I know, Mitt Romney is the only candidate to come out against the bill.

And the final kicker is that the legislation won't even be ready to be viewed by the great unwashed until after the Senate votes on it. That sounds like a great idea; let's vote on one of the largest changes in immigration reform without seeing it in writing. You do understand why it's happening this way, don't you? They want to ram it through before you really get a chance to see what they're doing.LANK

[Tiger in Spain 0]

If this thing passes, Americans should march on Washington DC. This will pretty much signal our end.

[townhallsavoy 2]

If this thing passes, Americans should march on Washington DC. This will pretty much signal our end.

Why will it signal our end?

Look, I'm not for amnesty but I can't figure out a way to solve the problem. If you say, "Get out of our country and come back the legal way," they're going to riot, revolt, and cause mayhem in the streets. Most the illegal immigrants are here looking for work. The problem is that AMERICANS are hiring them and giving them money under the table, which they typically send back to Mexico. Granting amnesty makes all of them pay taxes; it keeps money in America. They aren't going to leave and we can't make them without causing a ton of civil unrest. If you have a better idea, I'd like to hear it. I personally think we need to purchase the Great Wall of China and place it on the border. As for the 12 million here, we should set up some kind of special program to help them become citizens. Many speak of the illegal immigrants breaking the law - how lawful was it for America to turn their backs on the issue for forty years and also hire them as workers?

[Tiger in Spain 0]

Thinking they will pay taxes into the system is all good in theory, but it will never happen. A lot of Europeans thought the same thing, and they are seeing support programs designed for tax paying citizens overrun with public service freeloaders. Our social services are already swamped, and this will accomplish nothing other than add hundreds of thousands more onto their roll. Ask the folks in areas that have a high illegal immigrant problem what effect they have seen.

Rewarding law breakers is not the answer to the problem. I’m pro-immigration, but strongly opposed to illegal immigration.

[otterinbham 0]

What should have happened is they should have broomed existing immigration laws and instituted a guest worker program that puts limits on how long people can work in the country. Then punish the crap out of any employer who gets caught violating the rules.

[townhallsavoy 2]

What should have happened is they should have broomed existing immigration laws and instituted a guest worker program that puts limits on how long people can work in the country. Then punish the crap out of any employer who gets caught violating the rules.

"Should" is a foreign word for our government. I think that punishing the employers is the real answer to the problem but I can't see either party attacking potential lobbyists and voters in order to fix immigration.

[Tiger in Spain 0]

What should have happened is they should have broomed existing immigration laws and instituted a guest worker program that puts limits on how long people can work in the country. Then punish the crap out of any employer who gets caught violating the rules.

Bingo! Attack the problem at the point of demand. Stiff fines and lengthy prison sentences will go a long way to curbing the employer problem. Enforce the dadgum laws!

Giving up and saying, "well, there's nothing we can really do about it so we might as well accept it" is the wrong way of thinking.

[townhallsavoy 2]

Thinking they will pay taxes into the system is all good in theory, but it will never happen. A lot of Europeans thought the same thing, and they are seeing support programs designed for tax paying citizens overrun with public service freeloaders. Our social services are already swamped, and this will accomplish nothing other than add hundreds of thousands more onto their roll. Ask the folks in areas that have a high illegal immigrant problem what effect they have seen.

Rewarding law breakers is not the answer to the problem. I’m pro-immigration, but strongly opposed to illegal immigration.

So what's the answer? It seems like every possible answer can refuted with a simple "it will never happen."

I understand the effects of illegal immigration rather well and in approximately one year I'll have first hand experience with it. I'm going into teaching. My girlfriend is a teacher and my mother was a teacher and is now a counselor. Illegal immigrants are affecting the education system in an almost devastating way. Because of No Child Left Behind, immigrants, who are slid into the classroom by the administration, are to treated like every other student. Now, most immigrants can't speak English. Whose problem is that? Why the teacher's, of course! Teachers today are responsible for bettering test scores for those who don't speak English. Make sense? Nope.

[townhallsavoy 2]

What should have happened is they should have broomed existing immigration laws and instituted a guest worker program that puts limits on how long people can work in the country. Then punish the crap out of any employer who gets caught violating the rules.

Bingo! Attack the problem at the point of demand. Stiff fines and lengthy prison sentences will go a long way to curbing the employer problem. Enforce the dadgum laws!

Giving up and saying, "well, there's nothing we can really do about it so we might as well accept it" is the wrong way of thinking.

So do you think if the employers stop employing the illegals, they will all just go back home?

[Tiger in Spain 0]

An acquaintance of mine teaches in a public school system out in Arizona. He tells me that half of his students are illegal immigrants, and he says they (the system) can not turn them away because of the threat of a lawsuit by the ACLU. They (the school administration) are not even allowed to ask if they are legal.

The only way to fight and win this is to get these damn politicians on both sides of the isle to forget about votes for a second and think about the good of the country.

[townhallsavoy 2]

An acquaintance of mine teaches in a public school system out in Arizona. He tells me that half of his students are illegal immigrants, and he says they (the system) can not turn them away because of the threat of a lawsuit by the ACLU. They (the school administration) are not even allowed to ask if they are legal.

The only way to fight and win this is to get these damn politicians on both sides of the isle to forget about votes for a second and think about the good of the country.

Same thing happens here in Alabama. The kids just don't have files when they start. Crazy, eh?

[Tiger in Spain 0]

What should have happened is they should have broomed existing immigration laws and instituted a guest worker program that puts limits on how long people can work in the country. Then punish the crap out of any employer who gets caught violating the rules.

Bingo! Attack the problem at the point of demand. Stiff fines and lengthy prison sentences will go a long way to curbing the employer problem. Enforce the dadgum laws!

Giving up and saying, "well, there's nothing we can really do about it so we might as well accept it" is the wrong way of thinking.

So do you think if the employers stop employing the illegals, they will all just go back home?

No, not at first. But smacking the hell out of the people that hire them judicially and financially will curb the enthusiasm for hiring illegals. Deny access to public taxpayer funded services to illegals and eventually the flow will lessen.

We can do it. We just have to decide to start.

[CCTAU 3,344]

Every time they are stopped on the street for any reason, ID should be required(as it is for any of us). If you can't produce ID, then you will be assumed to be in this country illegally. If you cannot have someone bring your ID, or have a legal citizen step up and vouch for you, then deportation proceedings need to begin immediately. Non-air-conditioned buses should be packed full. Take them right back across the mexican border and drop them off. Begin building a fence today. Allow for anyone attempting to cross that fence to be SHOT on sight. UAVs are cheap and can be equipped with fleer detection devices that will be able see any body heat for miles around. These folks too will be SHOT. If you attempt to enter my home uninvited YOU will be shot. What's the difference between my home and my country.

There are ways to do this. It just means telling the liberals to get off their high-horse, sponsor an immigrant if they wish, and stay out of the way of the people trying to keep their butts safe. Sounds a little harsh to some of you, huh? You might be one of the above. We have soldiers off fighting for this country so others can just give it away. There is an answer, break the rules, pay the price. But unfortunately, the price is acceptable. We need to make the price so hard to pay that it becomes a non-choice. Almost every community has its own "little Mexico." Not its own immigrants. That's the problem. They don't want to be Americans or citizens, they just want the same rights.

[drewau02 0]

The double "whamie" on illegal immigration is this: Republicans are perfectly willing to let illegals into this country and the Democrats want to give them everything when they get here. In state tuition, various social services, etc.

Because of this bill, I have completely withdrawn my support for President Bush. This bill proves that he's nothing more than a mere Washington insider now, along with John McCain, Ted Kennedy, etc. He constantly gives lip service to winning the war on terror and "going on the offense", yet he can't do something as simple as secure our own borders. Are you gonna sit here and tell me that this bill ensures border security? Please, spare me the argument in favor. Last year's bill mandated an 800 mile fence and guess how many miles our government has built of that fence? If you guessed only two miles, then you would be correct.

And please, spare me the "better a bill than no bill." This is one of the worst pieces of legislation I've ever heard of. What do you think's gonna happen when these illegals have to pay their 5,000 fine for being here illegally? Quite simple, they'll just go to Bank of America and get a loan to pay the fine. This will further legitimize their status of being here permanently, instead of temporarily. Democrats, Republicans, and their talking head friends in the media are always referring to the "will of the American people," and doing "what the American people want." Yet, on this issues, you have a major divide between Washington and rest of America. Unbelievable.

What gets lost in this debate is the fact that no other group of felons in the United States is afforded the same consideration as illegal aliens. I'm sure that every other felony group in this country has a legitimite right to file a grievance now. If you let illegal aliens skate, then why not us?

Here's something else I haven't heard. Move the United States Capital from Washington D.C to Phoenix, Albeqerque, or Los Angeles. By doing this, you force these Beltway politicians to confront the repricussions of illegal immigration everyday. Maybe then will they change their minds.

[CShine 0]

All of you who voted for Bush have no excuse to complain. Right from the very beginning he was always very open about the fact that this is exactly what he wanted. If you voted for him then you voted for this plan. That's representative government in action and you made it happen so stop whining. You have no one to blame but yourself.

[autigeremt 6,694]

I see this as a potential ending of the United States as we know it. 20-30 million people from a whole other culture in 10-15 years will swing the balance of power in this nation and "could" lead to a civil war. That's right! A civil war! You cannot expect "social traquility" with that kind of growth.

Whites are considered the minority in states like Texas and California already. I'm not trying to be racist here, but the fact is that when you have one group who encroaches onto another at a rate of increase like this something will have to give. Many people will relocate to other areas where they feel more comfortable. That will cause "natural segregation". And that's where you have the posibility of civil unrest when the two collide.

An influx of that many people into our system relates to a 10% increase in the population. Those same people will be able to vote, and 75% of them will be below the middle incomes in the U.S. They will require increases in Medicare, Social Security, ect., ect., ect. Taxes will have to go up to offset this increase in cost. And I am not talking about just federal taxes. I'm talking about every type of service you can think of including schools and road systems. You will need more Law Enforcement, more EMS, more hospitals. We are at the brink of mass shortage in most areas now. What are we going to do as a nation about that?

I think we should close the boarder, round up the illegals and give them 90 days to return home or be deported. Yes there may be riots. Yes there may be civil unrest......but at some point you have to do what's best for the country and not what's best at the polls!!!!!

All I can say is God Bless America..................................she may not have too many years left in her as we have known it for over 200 years.

[drewau02 0]

All of you who voted for Bush have no excuse to complain. Right from the very beginning he was always very open about the fact that this is exactly what he wanted. If you voted for him then you voted for this plan. That's representative government in action and you made it happen so stop whining. You have no one to blame but yourself.

So I voted for Bush. Therefore, I'm supposed to endorse every piece of legislation he signs off on after he gets my vote? There are a few logical gaps there in your argument. And just so we're clear about things, I didn't give Bush de facto support for "comprehensive immigration reform" by voting for him either. Back in '04, I voted for the guy who cut taxes and overthrew two terrorist organizations in his first four years.

You say "from the beginning" Bush was open about comprehensive immigration reform. Unfortunately, you fail to realize that for whatever reason, immigration reform were not the hot button issues in the 2000 or 2004 presidential elections when I cast my vote for Bush. Sure, the topic gained some steam during the later days of the '04 campaign but it was overshadowed by the terrorism debate. The main issues were social security reform, tax reform, war on terror. In fact, the 2004 election was all a bout 9-11 and the wars thereafter.

Sure, most conservatives like myself mistakenly convinced ourselves that Bush would come around on immigration. Unfortunately, this never happened because his top aids like Karl Rove are convincing him that these new illegals are a bloc of future voters in swing states that the GOP can ill afford to piss off. So, at the end of the day, it's all about votes. All about politics. All about power. While Rome burns, the Beltway insiders are counting votes. It's a sad day indeed.

[DKW 86 7,440]

This bill sucks like a brand new Kirby...