Stidham, Willis work with qb coaches

[Tiger 8,822]

Ok so the jury is still out on whether or not Vick is the right guy to coach up our QBs. But if any of you have the same reservations for Ron Mexico giving our QBs some extra work I'd say you're off your rocker

[AUsince72 11,084]

9 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Ok so the jury is still out on whether or not Vick is the right guy to coach up our QBs. But if any of you have the same reservations for Ron Mexico giving our QBs some extra work I'd say you're off your rocker

Ron Mexico.... HA!

[triangletiger 1,599]

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

Ok so the jury is still out on whether or not Vick is the right guy to coach up our QBs. But if any of you have the same reservations for Ron Mexico giving our QBs some extra work I'd say you're off your rocker

Personally, I'd like to have Ron Mexico and Joey Freshwater host a QB camp.

[abw0004 10,110]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

Well, first of all, let's not make exaggerated points. Both the individuals you have named were sentenced to prison for an extended period of time. One of them murdered a fellow human being. That is in no way within the same realm of Vick, even if you hold an animal's life in the same regard. Another person was raping fellow human beings. Come on man. I am not going to even justify that with a response. My point is you are taking one aspect of an individual's life and projecting it toward their ability to coach. Bobby Petrino is an adulterer. Not a very well-liked human being, but if he ran a QB clinic, I imagine he could get a few quality players to attend. I don't think many people will be asking him for marriage advice. There are people on this forum who believe NS disregarded the health of one of his previous players. If NS were to want one of your kids to attend a secondary camp, are you going to say "No, you can't possibly teach my kid how to play DB, since you aren't teaching them the game of life." If your standard of someone being able to coach is simply completely based on human qualities off the field, you will be hard press to find that person, as most coaches and human beings, in general, are severely flawed. It is a very horrid assumption to think that someone who seeks help from Vick would potentially obtain bad qualities from his previous life. Last response, as we will NOT agree on this.

It is not all that exaggerated.  Using terms like "horrid assumption" is, however.  And if I recall you were one of the ones who wanted to keep Rice when he was accused of raping that woman last year.  This is not a Michael Vick reincarnated, so this is not a previous life we are talking about.  Vick was a kingpin of a whole dogfighting operation.  He didn't simply make a bet or two, he sponsored the whole thing and used his property to "train" the dogs.  And some parents who have standards do say "No, you can't possibly teach my kid how to play DB, since you aren't teaching them the game of life."  A lot of these parents know these coaches are going to help mold their sons into men.  Actually one of the times I agreed with Nick Saban, was during his interview with Charles Barkley, when Barkley asked why he gives second chances to players that mess up.  Nick said that when they mess up, and are kicked off the team, most of these kids do not have father figures and dip into the life of crime.  If they stay on the team, they can be reprimanded like they may never have been, and molded into who they need to be as young men.   If you follow recruiting, a lot of the recruits will may coaches on our staff are like father figures to them when they talk.  And they do not talk football all that much.  Just like Big Cat weekend was not focused on football.  So, in essence, there is merit to what I am saying, as there also is your point as well.  I agree that we will not agree, and that is fine.  You and I rarely do, and that is okay, nor meant to be taken in a derogatory way.  We both bring perspectives from both sides of arguments, and that is a good thing sometimes.  You catch things I may miss, and vice versa.  I will leave it with a story I was given in Scouting that may help relay why one aspect of his life (dogfighting) will affect another (football):

There was a well known attorney that was going through the interview process of becoming a judge.  He was a well known attorney for knowing what he was doing and very good at it to boot.  The judge panel loved him.  At lunch time they decided to have a lunch break and everyone headed down to the cafeteria.  After lunch, the lead judge of the panel told everyone else the attorney was not fit to be a judge.  Naturally they asked, "Why?"  He said while they were in the line, picking out foods and putting them on their tray, the attorney picked up a roll and put it on his plate.  He also got a packet of butter, and slid it under his bread so he was not charged the extra 25 cents, which the judge saw.  Not being truthful and avoiding an extra 25 cent charge, costed this man his career.

Even things that may at first glance seem unrelated may end up crossing streams and have a bigger correlation.

[DAG 33,980]

1 hour ago, AUsince72 said:

Don't trust Vick with your dog.

Don't trust Vick with your stash.

Don't trust Vick with your car.

Don't trust Vick with your girl.

Don't trust Vick with your QB.

None of those are related but they're all still good advice.

Those who lived in Atlanta in the early 2K's know what I'm talking about...

He was outstanding at Va. Tech but he was mediocre, at best, in the NFL and not a good "student" of the position.  In my opinion, anyone who looks at his play objectively sees tremendous natural talent but he never took to coaching and he never grew.  That's not the sign of a good teacher.

Then Mike Shula, Jason Garrett, Gary Kubiak and Steve Clarkson obviously shouldn't be coaching.

[DAG 33,980]

22 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

It is not all that exaggerated.  Using terms like "horrid assumption" is, however.  And if I recall you were one of the ones who wanted to keep Rice when he was accused of raping that woman last year.  This is not a Michael Vick reincarnated, so this is not a previous life we are talking about.  Vick was a kingpin of a whole dogfighting operation.  He didn't simply make a bet or two, he sponsored the whole thing and used his property to "train" the dogs.  And some parents who have standards do say "No, you can't possibly teach my kid how to play DB, since you aren't teaching them the game of life."  A lot of these parents know these coaches are going to help mold their sons into men.  Actually one of the times I agreed with Nick Saban, was during his interview with Charles Barkley, when Barkley asked why he gives second chances to players that mess up.  Nick said that when they mess up, and are kicked off the team, most of these kids do not have father figures and dip into the life of crime.  If they stay on the team, they can be reprimanded like they may never have been, and molded into who they need to be as young men.   If you follow recruiting, a lot of the recruits will may coaches on our staff are like father figures to them when they talk.  And they do not talk football all that much.  Just like Big Cat weekend was not focused on football.  So, in essence, there is merit to what I am saying, as there also is your point as well.  I agree that we will not agree, and that is fine.  You and I rarely do, and that is okay, nor meant to be taken in a derogatory way.  We both bring perspectives from both sides of arguments, and that is a good thing sometimes.  You catch things I may miss, and vice versa.  I will leave it with a story I was given in Scouting that may help relay why one aspect of his life (dogfighting) will affect another (football):

There was a well known attorney that was going through the interview process of becoming a judge.  He was a well known attorney for knowing what he was doing and very good at it to boot.  The judge panel loved him.  At lunch time they decided to have a lunch break and everyone headed down to the cafeteria.  After lunch, the lead judge of the panel told everyone else the attorney was not fit to be a judge.  Naturally they asked, "Why?"  He said while they were in the line, picking out foods and putting them on their tray, the attorney picked up a roll and put it on his plate.  He also got a packet of butter, and slid it under his bread so he was not charged the extra 25 cents, which the judge saw.  Not being truthful and avoiding an extra 25 cent charge, costed this man his career.

Even things that may at first glance seem unrelated may end up crossing streams and have a bigger correlation.

10

http://www.al.com/auburnfootball/index.ssf/2017/04/lawyers_claim_grand_jury_decli.html

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/19257851/former-auburn-player-landon-rice-not-indicted-rape-charge

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2017/05/02/landon-rice-auburn-title-ix-investigation-sexual-assault/101221268/

Lawyers response to Title IX findings

I don't  recall ever saying we should keep him, so feel free to quote me and PROVE your point. However, this is why you shouldn't judge with such short sightedness. Based on your track record, I bet you hope he doesn't get to play football again. Not even going to waste my time reading the rest of your dissertation. You have a right to your opinion, but a very small minority agrees with your position on this thread.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

8 minutes ago, triangletiger said:

Personally, I'd like to have Ron Mexico and Joey Freshwater host a QB camp.

Didn't you see the other thread? Joey Freshwater is hosting a camp... two of our coaches are there :).

[lionheartkc 6,150]

8 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

 Actually one of the times I agreed with Nick Saban, was during his interview with Charles Barkley, when Barkley asked why he gives second chances to players that mess up.  Nick said that when they mess up, and are kicked off the team, most of these kids do not have father figures and dip into the life of crime.  If they stay on the team, they can be reprimanded like they may never have been, and molded into who they need to be as young men.

Just had to comment on this. It would have so much more power behind it if these same players that Nick "molded" didn't end up in trouble with the law soon after they left the safe confines of Tuscaloosa for their NFL payday.

[abw0004 10,110]

43 minutes ago, DAG said:

http://www.al.com/auburnfootball/index.ssf/2017/04/lawyers_claim_grand_jury_decli.html

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/19257851/former-auburn-player-landon-rice-not-indicted-rape-charge

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2017/05/02/landon-rice-auburn-title-ix-investigation-sexual-assault/101221268/

Lawyers response to Title IX findings

I don't  recall ever saying we should keep him, so feel free to quote me and PROVE your point. However, this is why you shouldn't judge with such short sightedness. Based on your track record, I bet you hope he doesn't get to play football again. Not even going to waste my time reading the rest of your dissertation. You have a right to your opinion, but a very small minority agrees with your position on this thread.

Okay, so I have read every edit on this post you made.  First of all, you need to stop being so derogatory and calling names and going after my integrity.  In your previous edit before you added the last sentence, you said you were not even going to waste your time reading my post.  Basically, you are pitching a fit by sticking your fingers in your ears saying "I'm not listening!" while shutting your eyes and screaming so you can't hear me.  This is very childish.  If you would have read all of my posts to entirety to you you would see that I was giving you a complement (I have given you a few today actually).  Don't believe me, check when I last edited my last post to confirm I did not rush to throw one in there.  It was in there originally.  

If you knew anything about my track record, you will know I have never once gone after any poster on this forum because I view everyone as on the same team, Auburn's. You on the other hand have no bounds.  You would also know I have no issues admitting to everyone on here when I am wrong.  I have done it before.  Also, when I disagree, I always make a point to say I respect your view, or that I respectfully disagree to make sure the opposing party knows I am trying to have a civil conversation and I am making a full effort to understand their point if I am in fact wrong.  Nothing about me is short sided.  Take notes.

I am not going to continue this conversation with you unless you start having mature, friendly debates.  I am not on here to talk with children.  You are better than that DAG, and I mean that in a nice way to you.  You offer good insights when you want to, but the second you act like you are right now, it only escalates things for no reason at all.

Now, in regards to what you posted about football related matters: it is amazing how athletes and powerful people can make things disappear can't they?  Even when text messages were released with Rice apologizing over and over about what he did.  I am okay if I am the only one taking a hard stand on how women are treated, or people who torment animals.  I will take that to my grave.  But like I said, what I will not do, is continue this conversation if you are going to act this way when we are both rooting for the same team.

[DAG 33,980]

45 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

Okay, so I have read every edit on this post you made.  First of all, you need to stop being so derogatory and calling names and going after my integrity.  In your previous edit before you added the last sentence, you said you were not even going to waste your time reading my post.  Basically, you are pitching a fit by sticking your fingers in your ears saying "I'm not listening!" while shutting your eyes and screaming so you can't hear me.  This is very childish.  If you would have read all of my posts to entirety to you you would see that I was giving you a complement (I have given you a few today actually).  Don't believe me, check when I last edited my last post to confirm I did not rush to throw one in there.  It was in there originally.  

If you knew anything about my track record, you will know I have never once gone after any poster on this forum because I view everyone as on the same team, Auburn's. You on the other hand have no bounds.  You would also know I have no issues admitting to everyone on here when I am wrong.  I have done it before.  Also, when I disagree, I always make a point to say I respect your view, or that I respectfully disagree to make sure the opposing party knows I am trying to have a civil conversation and I am making a full effort to understand their point if I am in fact wrong.  Nothing about me is short sided.  Take notes.

I am not going to continue this conversation with you unless you start having mature, friendly debates.  I am not on here to talk with children.  You are better than that DAG, and I mean that in a nice way to you.  You offer good insights when you want to, but the second you act like you are right now, it only escalates things for no reason at all.

Now, in regards to what you posted about football related matters: it is amazing how athletes and powerful people can make things disappear can't they?  Even when text messages were released with Rice apologizing over and over about what he did.  I am okay if I am the only one taking a hard stand on how women are treated, or people who torment animals.  I will take that to my grave.  But like I said, what I will not do, is continue this conversation if you are going to act this way when we are both rooting for the same team.

7

Except you just ASSUMED that I was for keeping someone like Landon Rice on the team, which had nothing to do with the Vick debate. There was no reason for you to reference me to that incident. Again, You and I will not agree on Mike Vick. Let's leave it at that or take it to the PMs like my main man @ellitor would say. Either way, I am not going to lose sleep, if you don't feel the need to carry a conversation with me. So, I am DONE with the role model talk.

Want to reiterate, I am so happy that these young men, chose to seek help on their own time. To me it is a lot more childish to complain about how or whom one of our student athletes choose to train with on their own personal time.

[ellitor 33,091]

[oracle79 3,569]

2 hours ago, DAG said:

Then Mike Shula, Jason Garrett, Gary Kubiak and Steve Clarkson obviously shouldn't be coaching.

No argument there. 

[alexava 6,973]

Damn, the season needs to hurry up and get here.

[lost 452]

Stidham's odds went from 50:1  to 20:1  to win the Heisman       In April he was a 50:1, in the just released odds from Vegas they jumped him to 20:1  K Pettway is still a 30:1

[AUsince72 11,084]

5 hours ago, DAG said:

Then Mike Shula, Jason Garrett, Gary Kubiak and Steve Clarkson obviously shouldn't be coaching.

My understanding is they were all very studious about the position and thus are willing and able to pass along their knowledge.  Vick was not and odds are there's not much for him TO teach.

[lost 452]

Now Justin Fields decommits from Penn State......  

[AUpreacherman22 3,885]

I'm glad our QBs have a strong work ethic and they are using the off-season wisely. That is all. 

[cole256 17,050]

This discussion isn't even worth it. All those guys were studious, Vick just an athlete and just an evil man.....now let me grab my beer go kill everything from deer, to lions, to elephants, hang their head on my wall and let Palmer show you why he's the best in the business....because all these unknown people says so! You can tell while he was throwing his interceptions he had the studious look in his eye as he staredat the other team and his form was amazing even though it was no where near his wr. That's the role model you want your kid to have

[Timeslider 6 269]

21 minutes ago, cole256 said:

This discussion isn't even worth it. All those guys were studious, Vick just an athlete and just an evil man.....now let me grab my beer go kill everything from deer, to lions, to elephants, hang their head on my wall and let Palmer show you why he's the best in the business....because all these unknown people says so! You can tell while he was throwing his interceptions he had the studious look in his eye as he staredat the other team and his form was amazing even though it was no where near his wr. That's the role model you want your kid to have

Sounds like a lot of hate for Palmer, just let people have their opinion. No need to get personal about it, 

[McLoofus 35,182]

5 minutes ago, Timeslider 6 said:

Sounds like a lot of hate for Palmer, just let people have their opinion. No need to get personal about it, 

I don't think Cole is hating on Palmer or being personal so much as offering his observations on how we view athletes differently. I agree with some of what he says, if I'm reading him right.

[Timeslider 6 269]

I can understand observations, it's just that most of his posts sound angry and vitriolic, i can't understand someone sounding that way, besides what does that beer and killing comment mean anyway. 

[ellitor 33,091]

Just now, Timeslider 6 said:

I can understand observations, it's just that most of his posts sound angry and vitriolic, i can't understand someone sounding that way, besides what does that beer and killing comment mean anyway. 

It's stereotyping & something that should be avoided by all of us.

[atl-tiger 655]

1 minute ago, Timeslider 6 said:

I can understand observations, it's just that most of his posts sound angry and vitriolic, i can't understand someone sounding that way, besides what does that beer and killing comment mean anyway. 

He's stereotyping everybody that doesn't think Vick is a good coach/role model because of race...

[AUsince72 11,084]

42 minutes ago, cole256 said:

This discussion isn't even worth it. All those guys were studious, Vick just an athlete and just an evil man.....now let me grab my beer go kill everything from deer, to lions, to elephants, hang their head on my wall and let Palmer show you why he's the best in the business....because all these unknown people says so! You can tell while he was throwing his interceptions he had the studious look in his eye as he staredat the other team and his form was amazing even though it was no where near his wr. That's the role model you want your kid to have

All your other comments aside, Vick was just an athlete because he chose to be just an athlete.  Watching & reading his actions and words over the years in Atlanta (can't speak for Philly) he didn't WANT to he coached.  He wanted and expected to just let his natural ability allow him to play backyard football and "I'm better than you" the other team to death.

I know there's an agenda behind a lot of your arguments and that's fine...that's your jam.  But most negative opinions of Vick's potential ability to be a great teacher of QB's was earned by his attitudes & actions over the years.

Maybe we're all wrong.  Maybe he'll be the guru of gurus... But I'd rather let a bammer or thUga QB be the guinea pig and not a potential Auburn great.  I suspect Willis can be great...maybe the next Cam/Nick but I'd rather he be coached BY Cam or Nick than Vick.  They proved coachable at least.

[McLoofus 35,182]

11 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

All your other comments aside, Vick was just an athlete because he chose to be just an athlete.  Watching & reading his actions and words over the years in Atlanta (can't speak for Philly) he didn't WANT to he coached.  He wanted and expected to just let his natural ability allow him to play backyard football and "I'm better than you" the other team to death.

I know there's an agenda behind a lot of your arguments and that's fine...that's your jam.  But most negative opinions of Vick's potential ability to be a great teacher of QB's was earned by his attitudes & actions over the years.

Maybe we're all wrong.  Maybe he'll be the guru of gurus... But I'd rather let a bammer or thUga QB be the guinea pig and not a potential Auburn great.  I suspect Willis can be great...maybe the next Cam/Nick but I'd rather he be coached BY Cam or Nick than Vick.  They proved coachable at least.

Important piece of the puzzle. In terms of how Vick should be judged now in terms of attitude, we should probably look at the end of his career, not the beginning. A lot of guys enter professional sports as immature jerks and leave as somewhat decent, hardworking dudes. Don't know if Vick qualifies but Andy Reid was quite complimentary of his attitude and work ethic when he was in Philly. 

And nobody's trying to say that Vick is a guru. All anyone's trying to say is there's no reason to freak out and act like he's going to ruin Auburn players by spending some time with them over the summer throwing footballs around.