Starting running back today per Horton

[TigerFanAU 586]

52 minutes ago, DAG said:

Wow. Why are we just recognizing this now. This honestly deserves its own thread.

Frightening and sad that it took the following to finally get Gus to admit he has a problem with RB development:

-Losing the SECCG because we didn't have another developed RB

-Losing the Bowl game, because again, our primary RB was injured

-Spring practice is over without a clear leader at RB

It's like now the light bulb, or should I say stubborness has worn off and Gus is finally ready to admit he messed up BIG TIME in not developing a stable of backs for the long haul. Its hard enough getting to the SECCG, why ride just one RB in this league? Let us not forget that Gus made Pettway carry the ball 34 times, while injured, against MERCER, and Kam Martin never saw the field. Sometimes all you can do is laugh. It's hard to duplicate a KJ, but the other backs are all guys Gus recruited, so use them!!

[around4ever 4,139]

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

Dammit Gus even your RB coach is saying RBs need to be rotated better!

Wow!!  So Horton is questioning that Gus is an "offensive genius"?   Surely not.  We all know that offensive geniuses only have three running plays and two pass plays. 

[steeleagle 2,945]

6 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I thought that was what practice was for. Set a standard and achieve that standard to earn time on the field. I would be willing to bet money that every running back that didn't get much play time in the heat of battle either showed Gus that they put the ball on the field in practice or didn't block well in practice. Now, you can argue that Gus takes his mantra of blocking and protecting the football to an extreme, and you could be right, but I certainly don't want a football coach who says "you didn't earn/show you could do it it in practice, but get out there anyway".

I kinda agree, but their are great RBs who have not been good practice players, but somehow, light it up in game situations. I have heard that about many backs over the years. 

Now in Gus' situation, I think he had the situation of no one behind KJ and Pettway that could run and BLOCK well enough.  I think he needed to still use his best reserves (Martin), but Gus' is stubborn in these situations, and just didnt feel right keeping him in...

[DAG 33,981]

2 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I thought that was what practice was for. Set a standard and achieve that standard to earn time on the field. I would be willing to bet money that every running back that didn't get much play time in the heat of battle either showed Gus that they put the ball on the field in practice or didn't block well in practice. Now, you can argue that Gus takes his mantra of blocking and protecting the football to an extreme, and you could be right, but I certainly don't want a football coach who says "you didn't earn/show you could do it it in practice, but get out there anyway".

Let me tell you this. I don’t know what they do in practice or how they evaluate things in practice . I would think in practice they should be able to tell KJ is not 100% . He may not be as effective therefore we need to have a back up plan.  If they can’t tell something like that in practice , I don’t know where to start. If they aren’t getting what they think is enough in practice , then they need to re-evaluate how they are motivating and coaching up the players. I just can’t accept a game plan where the coaching staff says someone who clearly is not 100 percent and basically is showing it on the field is our only option. To me that would make me question talent evaluation or coaching ability.

[DAG 33,981]

7 minutes ago, TigerFanAU said:

Frightening and sad that it took the following to finally get Gus to admit he has a problem with RB development:

-Losing the SECCG because we didn't have another developed RB

-Losing the Bowl game, because again, our primary RB was injured

-Spring practice is over without a clear leader at RB

It's like now the light bulb, or should I say stubborness has worn off and Gus is finally ready to admit he messed up BIG TIME in not developing a stable of backs for the long haul. Its hard enough getting to the SECCG, why ride just one RB in this league? Let us not forget that Gus made Pettway carry the ball 34 times, while injured, against MERCER, and Kam Martin never saw the field. Sometimes all you can do is laugh. It's hard to duplicate a KJ, but the other backs are all guys Gus recruited, so use them!!

I am doing my best to give the benefit of a doubt ..but quotes like that make me wanna be like why?!!! Grrrr

[Tiger 8,823]

How can you put faith in the practice evaluations when Gus can't even figure out which OL unit gives his team the best chance to win or - and this maybe more relative to this particular topic - but remember Kam Pettway? The guy who saved our season 2 years ago but Gus had no idea what kind of skill he had until they were essentially forced to put him in the game? He got zero carries on a whopping 1 snap in the first game of the season that year.

Gus has enough "can't be trusted" equity in the bank to make all of these concerns being voiced by posters valid IMO.

[DAG 33,981]

2 minutes ago, Tiger said:

How can you put faith in the practice evaluations when Gus can't even figure out which OL unit gives his team the best chance to win or - and this maybe more relative to this particular topic - but remember Kam Pettway? The guy who saved our season 2 years ago but Gus had no idea what kind of skill he had until they were essentially forced to put him in the game? He got zero carries on a whopping 1 snap in the first game of the season that year.

Gus has enough "can't be trusted" equity in the bank to make all of these concerns being voiced by posters valid IMO.

And quite frankly it doesn’t have to be all on Gus . That is why you have your positional and OC. Go talk to your positional coaches. Get a feel of how they are performing from them. Go to your OC and make sure that he and the positional coach is on the same page and then have them prepare an adequate plan for both KJ, Kam and Barrett to minimIe any deficiencies they have. You might not be able to do what you normally do, but you got to have that trust in them to get it done. Of course you have to okay the final plan. Haha I mean I am no SEC coach . That could completely fail on my end. Just think there is a trust and communicator issue going on that could help all parties out.

[Tiger 8,823]

2 minutes ago, DAG said:

And quite frankly it doesn’t have to be all on Gus . That is why you have your positional and OC. Go talk to your positional coaches. Get a feel of how they are performing from them. Go to your OC and make sure that he and the positional coach is on the same page and then have them prepare an adequate plan for both KJ, Kam and Barrett to minimIe any deficiencies they have. You might not be able to do what you normally do, but you got to have that trust in them to get it done. Of course you have to okay the final plan. Haha I mean I am no SEC coach . That could completely fail on my end. Just think there is a trust and communicator issue going on that could help all parties out.

I can't love this post enough!!!!!!!

 

There is obviously some disconnect there if our RB coach is saying "we have to rotate the guys I coach to give us a better chance to win" but our HC is not buying into that idea.

[TigerFanAU 586]

6 minutes ago, DAG said:

Let me tell you this. I don’t know what they do in practice or how they evaluate things in practice

 

3 minutes ago, Tiger said:

but remember Kam Pettway? The guy who saved our season 2 years ago but Gus had no idea what kind of skill he had until they were essentially forced to put him in the game?

I was about to say the same thing. Pettway was 3rd string at the tim, prior to Jovon Robinson being kicked off right at the beginning of the season. Went on to run for 1,200 yards at 5.9 yards per carry that year.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

6 minutes ago, DAG said:

Let me tell you this. I don’t know what they do in practice or how they evaluate things in practice . I would think in practice they should be able to tell KJ is not 100% . He may not be as effective therefore we need to have a back up plan.  If they can’t tell something like that in practice , I don’t know where to start. If they aren’t getting what they think is enough in practice , then they need to re-evaluate how they are motivating and coaching up the players. I just can’t accept a game plan where the coaching staff says someone who clearly is not 100 percent and basically is showing it on the field is our only option. To me that would make me question talent evaluation or coaching ability.

I think that is what Horton was addressing, but there is something else we all need to keep in mind, which is that not every player can be coached to play at the level we now require. Not everyone is cut out to be an NFL running back, and when you are playing a team FULL of NFL players, you have to decide if your NFL running back at 50% is better than your other guys at 100%. If he is, then you you are right, you need to work on development or you need to work on recruiting, but I'm not, for a second, going to believe that they didn't know he was hurt and didn't truly believe that he was our best shot. If Kam or Malik had shown that they were up to the task, I believe they would have been out there more than they were.

5 minutes ago, Tiger said:

How can you put faith in the practice evaluations when Gus can't even figure out which OL unit gives his team the best chance to win

Wasn't that Herb's job?

6 minutes ago, Tiger said:

and this maybe more relative to this particular topic - but remember Kam Pettway? The guy who saved our season 2 years ago but Gus had no idea what kind of skill he had until they were essentially forced to put him in the game?

 Or they did know what kind of skillset he has which is WHY they put him in the game as the #2 running back when #1 went down, but they also knew that Kerryon showed more potential, which we saw this year. 

7 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Gus has enough "can't be trusted" equity in the bank to make all of these concerns being voiced by posters valid IMO.

And all of that "can't be trusted" equity has been created by fans who have no clue what is really behind any decisions that are being made. That's what frustrates me about the people who continually harp on our staff. No, they aren't perfect. Yes, they are still learning some of the ropes. But forgive me if I refuse to take fan theories about people they've never met and situations that they have no inside knowledge about as gospel. 

[Tiger 8,823]

1 minute ago, TigerFanAU said:

 

I was about to say the same thing. Pettway was 3rd string at the tim, prior to Jovon Robinson being kicked off right at the beginning of the season. Went on to run for 1,200 yards at 5.9 yards per carry that year.

Right. And that doesn't mean that he was better than the guys in front of him -- but a guy with that type of potential should be touching the ball at least a little bit. He didn't even get a touch until we had no other choice. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

2 minutes ago, TigerFanAU said:

 

I was about to say the same thing. Pettway was 3rd string at the tim, prior to Jovon Robinson being kicked off right at the beginning of the season. Went on to run for 1,200 yards at 5.9 yards per carry that year.

Yea... 3rd string behind a guy who pretty much everyone knew was going to be the next household name at running back, until he blew it, and a guy who is probably going 2nd round in the NFL draft. Perspective.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Just now, Tiger said:

How can you put faith in the practice evaluations when Gus can't even figure out which OL unit gives his team the best chance to win or - and this maybe more relative to this particular topic - but remember Kam Pettway? The guy who saved our season 2 years ago but Gus had no idea what kind of skill he had until they were essentially forced to put him in the game? He got zero carries on a whopping 1 snap in the first game of the season that year.

Gus has enough "can't be trusted" equity in the bank to make all of these concerns being voiced by posters valid IMO.

I would say that 3 issues have significantly affected our offense the last 3 years, but the most prevalent one has been the T word. 

[TigerFanAU 586]

2 minutes ago, Tiger said:

but a guy with that type of potential should be touching the ball at least a little bit.

Exactly, or else you end up with where we're at now.... no clue on who the best back is because they weren't utilized.

[McLoofus 35,182]

For the record, I'm primarily happy that a coach acknowledged a problem and said they're going to address it. 

 

 

[DAG 33,981]

6 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I think that is what Horton was addressing, but there is something else we all need to keep in mind, which is that not every player can be coached to play at the level we now require. Not everyone is cut out to be an NFL running back, and when you are playing a team FULL of NFL players, you have to decide if your NFL running back at 50% is better than your other guys at 100%. If he is, then you you are right, you need to work on development or you need to work on recruiting, but I'm not, for a second, going to believe that they didn't know he was hurt and didn't truly believe that he was our best shot. If Kam or Malik had shown that they were up to the task, I believe they would have been out there more than they were.

Wasn't that Herb's job?

 Or they did know what kind of skillset he has which is WHY they put him in the game as the #2 running back when #1 went down, but they also knew that Kerryon showed more potential, which we saw this year. 

And all of that "can't be trusted" equity has been created by fans who have no clue what is really behind any decisions that are being made. That's what frustrates me about the people who continually harp on our staff. No, they aren't perfect. Yes, they are still learning some of the ropes. But forgive me if I refuse to take fan theories about people they've never met and situations that they have no inside knowledge about as gospel. 

Whoa a very small percentage of teams has a team full of NFL players. A high percentage of these guys won’t make it in the NFL , so that is neither here nor there. Basically , I can’t a fathom a coach at this level of football saying we are going to ride with our injured RB, who we see is not 100 percent no matter what, without a back up plan. High school level? Okay. Middle school level? Yep. At this level you have recruited enough talent to not only trust them but trust your own game planning to get them ready and maximize your teams opportunity to win. This is going to sound like a prick comment next, but if that is all Gus can offer us, then he doesn’t deserve that contract. It’s great when you have all things there for you and your successful. However, I am of the believe that where most people earn their money is how they handle adversity to a situation. What separates a brain surgeon isn’t the 99% of procedures that go right. It is how they handle the 1% that goes completely wrong and you still have to save that patient.

[DAG 33,981]

7 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

For the record, I'm primarily happy that a coach acknowledged a problem and said they're going to address it. 

 

 

Yep same here. I am glad it was acknowledged and it will be worked on.

[gr82be 14,423]

6 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

For the record, I'm primarily happy that a coach acknowledged a problem and said they're going to address it. 

 

 

Why do I still have a feeling that as the season draws near Gus will not change his philosophy and habits? I certainly hope he does but he doesn't need to stop with the RBs. MW needs to get at least one meaningful series in the first and second half of every game. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

10 minutes ago, DAG said:

Whoa a very small percentage of teams has a team full of NFL players. A high percentage of these guys won’t make it in the NFL , so that is neither here nor there. Basically , I can’t a fathom a coach at this level of football saying we are going to ride with our injured RB, who we see is not 100 percent no matter what, without a back up plan. High school level? Okay. Middle school level? Yep. At this level you have recruited enough talent to not only trust them but trust your own game planning to get them ready and maximize your teams opportunity to win. This is going to sound like a prick comment next, but if that is all Gus can offer us, then he doesn’t deserve that contract. It’s great when you have all things there for you and your successful. However, I am of the believe that where most people earn their money is how they handle adversity to a situation. What separates a brain surgeon isn’t the 99% of procedures that go right. It is how they handle the 1% that goes completely wrong and you still have to save that patient.

We're talking about a game against Georgia... a team full of NFL players.

To use your brain surgeon analogy, is the brain surgeon a complete failure if everything goes wrong, he chooses what he feels is his best chance to still save the patient, and he still fails to do so, because I guarantee that happens a lot. I'm also sure he's glad that there aren't a bunch of armchair surgeons sitting out there deciding that, even though they have know clue about the intimate details of the case, they know what he should have done to save the patient.

This is what I try to keep getting people to think about.

1.  You have no idea how the players are performing in practice. In fact, we have less and less each year. 
    
2. You have no idea what their ceiling is. Heck, not a single back on our roster, who isn't a freshman, was a star recruit. We didn't have to fight to land any of them, yet people are arguing that the should have been up to the task of, basically, carrying the team against a top SEC defense and protecting the star QB who's O-Line isn't up to the task. Take Byron Cowart as an example... kid was a 5*, had all of the potential in the world and one of the best coaches there is... and never was good enough to be more than a back-up.
    
3. You have no idea what the coaches are discussing in game planning or on the field. However, people are happy to tell you what they are discussing based on something someone who also knows nothing said on the Internet.
    
4. You have no idea what the individual coaches are thinking... but again, there are plenty of made up things on the Internet to tell you.

Here's what I know as a fact... every single coach on our team wants to win every single game that they play, and they are going to weigh every option in front of them to determine what they think is the right thing to do to achieve that goal. They aren't going to be right 100% of the time, but they are always going to try to win. If that didn't matter to them, they wouldn't put up with all of the crap that comes with being an SEC football coach.

 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

33 minutes ago, gr82be said:

MW needs to get at least one meaningful series in the first and second half of every game. 

Really? I can't think of a single top team that struts their back-up QB out in the first half of any games, or the second half of games that aren't blowouts.

[gr82be 14,423]

6 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Really? I can't think of a single top team that struts their back-up QB out in the first half of any games, or the second half of games that aren't blowouts.

And that's worked so well for us in the past, hasn't it?. When the backup QB gets garbage time and the playbook isn't opened for him you get what we have seen. I just want the guy ready so if we need him he can do more than handoff. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

5 minutes ago, gr82be said:

And that's worked so well for us in the past, hasn't it?. When the backup QB gets garbage time and the playbook isn't opened for him you get what we have seen. I just want the guy ready so if we need him he can do more than handoff. 

So, because you feel like our back-ups haven't been ready (i.e. John Franklin), we should risk games for the sole purpose of getting our back-up playing time even though no successful team has ever done that.  Got it. 

[gr82be 14,423]

22 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

So, because you feel like our back-ups haven't been ready (i.e. John Franklin), we should risk games for the sole purpose of getting our back-up playing time even though no successful team has ever done that.  Got it. 

Pretty sure that Steve Spurrier had success having his backups prepared to play at Florida. LSU won a BCS title with a two QBs- Flynn and Perilloux. And yes, I believe in having your backup QB battle tested, not battle protected. Difference of opinion. 

[DAG 33,981]

1 hour ago, lionheartkc said:

We're talking about a game against Georgia... a team full of NFL players.

To use your brain surgeon analogy, is the brain surgeon a complete failure if everything goes wrong, he chooses what he feels is his best chance to still save the patient, and he still fails to do so, because I guarantee that happens a lot. I'm also sure he's glad that there aren't a bunch of armchair surgeons sitting out there deciding that, even though they have know clue about the intimate details of the case, they know what he should have done to save the patient.

This is what I try to keep getting people to think about.

1.  You have no idea how the players are performing in practice. In fact, we have less and less each year. 
    
2. You have no idea what their ceiling is. Heck, not a single back on our roster, who isn't a freshman, was a star recruit. We didn't have to fight to land any of them, yet people are arguing that the should have been up to the task of, basically, carrying the team against a top SEC defense and protecting the star QB who's O-Line isn't up to the task. Take Byron Cowart as an example... kid was a 5*, had all of the potential in the world and one of the best coaches there is... and never was good enough to be more than a back-up.
    
3. You have no idea what the coaches are discussing in game planning or on the field. However, people are happy to tell you what they are discussing based on something someone who also knows nothing said on the Internet.
    
4. You have no idea what the individual coaches are thinking... but again, there are plenty of made up things on the Internet to tell you.

Here's what I know as a fact... every single coach on our team wants to win every single game that they play, and they are going to weigh every option in front of them to determine what they think is the right thing to do to achieve that goal. They aren't going to be right 100% of the time, but they are always going to try to win. If that didn't matter to them, they wouldn't put up with all of the crap that comes with being an SEC football coach.

 

Well I  am not going to even attempt to read past your first few sentences if you honestly think i asserted Gus is a complete failure in any form or fashion by my analogy. Agree to disagree.

[steeleagle 2,945]

3 hours ago, DAG said:

Whoa a very small percentage of teams has a team full of NFL players. A high percentage of these guys won’t make it in the NFL , so that is neither here nor there. Basically , I can’t a fathom a coach at this level of football saying we are going to ride with our injured RB, who we see is not 100 percent no matter what, without a back up plan. High school level? Okay. Middle school level? Yep. At this level you have recruited enough talent to not only trust them but trust your own game planning to get them ready and maximize your teams opportunity to win. This is going to sound like a prick comment next, but if that is all Gus can offer us, then he doesn’t deserve that contract. It’s great when you have all things there for you and your successful. However, I am of the believe that where most people earn their money is how they handle adversity to a situation. What separates a brain surgeon isn’t the 99% of procedures that go right. It is how they handle the 1% that goes completely wrong and you still have to save that patient.

Kinda of like the team, that is sitting on the outside going to the SEC championship, but beats 4 SEC teams in a row (2 on the road) and dominates two undefeated #1 teams in Alabama and Georgia to secure a spot in the SEC Championship...