Final presidential debate

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Thus far this debate is far more substantive and far more listenable. Shutting up long enough to let the other person answer tends to do that.  Trump seems to have finally gotten it through his head that his tactics last time hurt him.

Also, this moderator is doing the best job of any this cycle.  Easily.

[ArgoEagle 1,775]

6 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Thus far this debate is far more substantive and far more listenable. Shutting up long enough to let the other person answer tends to do that.  Trump seems to have finally gotten it through his head that his tactics last time hurt him.

Also, this moderator is doing the best job of any this cycle.  Easily.

Wow! I actually agree with you.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Health care is a losing topic for Trump.  He's claimed a new, beautiful better plan is coming for years and there's still no plan so he doesn't have the gravitas to be taken seriously on it.

[Grumps 3,704]

15 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Thus far this debate is far more substantive and far more listenable. Shutting up long enough to let the other person answer tends to do that.  Trump seems to have finally gotten it through his head that his tactics last time hurt him.

Also, this moderator is doing the best job of any this cycle.  Easily.

Certainly better than before and the moderator is doing a good job. Unfortunately all I hear is garbage coming each of them. I don't think even they believe what they are saying. But I admit to being incredibly cynical.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Immigration:

Trump scores points with the "Obama built the cages, not me."

Biden's comments on DACA kids - 20,000 of them being first responders right now was a solid punch.

[TexasTiger 12,835]

6 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Immigration:

Trump scores points with the "Obama built the cages, not me."

Biden's comments on DACA kids - 20,000 of them being first responders right now was a solid punch.

Trump’s proud of those clean cages. Spotless!

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Trump keeps up with the lie about Biden calling black people "super predators."  

[TitanTiger 20,472]

"This guy (is/has - could make it out) a dog whistle as big as a foghorn."  

[jj3jordan 2,051]

18 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Immigration:

Trump scores points with the "Obama built the cages, not me."

Biden's comments on DACA kids - 20,000 of them being first responders right now was a solid punch.

But his implication was that they are only earning minimum wage. Are first responders earning minimum wage? I don't know but I doubt that.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

2 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

But his implication was that they are only earning minimum wage. Are first responders earning minimum wage? I don't know but I doubt that.

I thought it was in the context of wanting to raise the minimum wage to $15.  According to the numbers I'm finding on job recruiting sites, the majority of first responder salaries range between $27,000 to $42,000 across the United States. $27,000 works out to about $12.90 an hour.

[ArgoEagle 1,775]

8 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

"This guy (is/has - could make it out) a dog whistle as big as a foghorn."  

Maybe Joe could fall back as a comedian. Also Joe just screwed up big time on the oil industry question.

[Grumps 3,704]

Just now, ArgoEagle said:

Maybe Joe could fall back as a comedian. Also Joe just screwed up big time on the oil industry question.

I agree that he should not have gone after the oil industry.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Both of these guys are painful to listen to at times.  Trump is so disjointed.  Half thoughts and incomplete sentences.  One sentence barely relates to the one before it.  Biden stammers and stumbles, uses the wrong term and has to correct himself.  

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Biden did very well on the last question and Trump sort of fumbled it.  Missed opportunity.

Overall, a much better debate than the first one.  Kudos to the moderator and to the candidates for a much improved offering.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

Kind of thought it was a stalemate, which fundamentally is a win for Biden since he's up in the polls.  Trump needed something big to go in his direction tonight and I didn't see it.

And yes, moderator was great, but I also think the muting of the mics for the first part of each section set the right tone.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

3 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Kind of thought it was a stalemate, which fundamentally is a win for Biden since he's up in the polls.  Trump needed something big to go in his direction tonight and I didn't see it.

And yes, moderator was great, but I also think the muting of the mics for the first part of each section set the right tone.

Agreed.  It and the reviews Trump got for the first debate - which outside of the Hannity Groupie Club were universally negative changed the approach and we all benefitted from it.

[AUDub 11,147]

30 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

But his implication was that they are only earning minimum wage. Are first responders earning minimum wage? I don't know but I doubt that.

Among EMT's here in Alabama, I can answer im the affirmative.

 

Well in the sense that they would be were the MW raised to 15. 30,000 per annum not rare here. 

[savorytiger 182]

26 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Both of these guys are painful to listen to at times.  Trump is so disjointed.  Half thoughts and incomplete sentences.  One sentence barely relates to the one before it.  Biden stammers and stumbles, uses the wrong term and has to correct himself.  

I only caught the last 4 questions, but felt like Biden stuttered more often than in the first debate. Also agree with @Grumpsand @ArgoEagle that his answer to the oil industry was shakey. Trump was Trump, though, and hopefully anyone with a brain would notice that it's bad if you have to pretend the person you're debating is an idiot in your answer.

Also felt like Biden missed an opportunity on Trump's answer on the families in Texas having issues with factory polutants pointing out that lives don't really mean anything to Trump, only $.

[ArgoEagle 1,775]

Just saw 4 video clips of Joe Biden saying: "I will ban fracking!"

Tonight's bald face lie: "I never said I would ban fracking"

Then has the balls to say we should judge him on his character. Wow wee!!

[DKW 86 7,419]

1 hour ago, ArgoEagle said:

Just saw 4 video clips of Joe Biden saying: "I will ban fracking!"

Tonight's bald face lie: "I never said I would ban fracking"

Then has the balls to say we should judge him on his character. Wow wee!!

And you get a time out from Twitter, Facebook, and the Cool Kids Club...lmao...

[homersapien 11,367]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

Both of these guys are painful to listen to at times.  Trump is so disjointed.  Half thoughts and incomplete sentences.  One sentence barely relates to the one before it.  Biden stammers and stumbles, uses the wrong term and has to correct himself.  

Have you ever had speak for 90 minutes at a time? 

I once had to manage a day long seminar which including several sessions presented by me. My vocal cords were aching toward the end. And it's difficult to maintain your mental focus. (And this was with frequent breaks.)

Anyway, I noticed several stumbles by Biden but his performance totally dispelled any doubts I have about his ability to do the job mentally and physically.

I agree about Trump. It was extremely disjointed and very revealing about his personality.  He is not fit for the office.

 

[homersapien 11,367]

1 hour ago, Grumps said:

I agree that he should not have gone after the oil industry.

He wasn't "going after the oil industry", he was telling us the basic facts regarding reducing carbon emissions..

I am not surprised you don't see it.

[homersapien 11,367]

2 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

Trump keeps up with the lie about Biden calling black people "super predators."  

It would be interesting to see a fact check on both candidates statements.

Regarding style - a subjective evaluation - Trump has always been a snake oil salesman. This debate didn't change that. (See his "beautiful" health care plan).

[TexasTiger 12,835]

2 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

Trump keeps up with the lie about Biden calling black people "super predators."  

A listener has to very informed to appreciate just how lies he told.

[homersapien 11,367]

Trump Doesn’t Care

In his last chance to win over voters, Trump could not establish an emotional connection.

You’re losing. You’re losing bad. You’re out of money. Your ads are coming off the air in must-win states. Here it is, the last chance to speak to a big national audience—and for free, really the last opportunity to win back voters who have drifted away from you.

Another politician might have tried to speak to those voters’ deepest fears and concerns, to reestablish an emotional connection, to arrive with consolation for present troubles and credible plans for future improvement. But that is not Donald Trump’s way. Even when invited by the moderator, Kristen Welker, to speak directly to racial-minority families, President Trump could talk only about himself—boast that he had done more for African Americans than all previous presidents except maybe Abraham Lincoln, maybe. He could never, ever manage even the appearance of care and concern for anybody else. Trump erupted in sneering sarcasm when Joe Biden summoned the image of middle-class families at the kitchen table. The very idea of it irked Trump.

Trump behaved better at this second debate than at the first. The mute button was his good friend, and so was the pad of paper on which for the first 10 to 12 minutes he pretended to take notes whenever it was Biden’s turn to speak. The rules of debate two curbed him, restrained the spectacular bad behavior of debate one.

But Trump still arrived with only one plan: Attack and attack. Some of the attacks were wholly phony: Biden as the beneficiary of Chinese cash. Some of the attacks had a basis in reality: Incarceration of under-age border-crossers did begin under Barack Obama and Biden, not Trump. But none of them did what Trump so desperately needed to do: reach voters who suspect he doesn’t care about them at all. These have been difficult months. I feel it. I understand. He could not say it; he could not do it. He could only offer a false promise of vaccines before the end of the year, a promise he hastily retracted under pressure from the moderator for more specifics.

Trump does not do empathy. Even Trump supporters know that by now. Some of them may appreciate it. They prefer anger. But those supporters might consider: Trump showed on that stage why he has so often failed at the job of being president. He rejected reality (that he’s losing because of COVID-19) in favor of a fantasy (that he’d win if only he could tell more people about these latest allegations from Rudy Giuliani). He refused to care about what voters care about—and instead insisted that voters care about what he cares about.

“You talk too damn much and too damn much of it is about you.” That’s how the detective Philip Marlowe bids farewell to a narcissistic criminal in Raymond Chandler’s novel The Long Goodbye. If America dismisses Trump in November, he may hear the same send-off.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/10/the-last-debate-trump-doesnt-care/616835/