Whats the worst thing that could happen from this Points Shaving thing?

[bird36 5]

Last night I watched every basketball game Auburn has played since 2005. Looked like we shaved points in just about all of them. 

[AEAugirl 9,633]

If this does turn out to be true, there are 2 possibilities (IMHO): Ward acted alone--had a bookie and had some money on the game or games; or, Ward was contacted by someone who put up some money for him to throw the game(s) in question. If it is scenario #2, would the FBI go easier on Ward if he were to turn state's evidence on the person or persons who possibly paid him to throw these games? Are referees involved, and why would someone pay Ward to throw a game if they already were paying referees to throw the game? Besides, the SEC is well-known for having possibly the worst officiating crew in basketball and football, so why would anyone suspect any of them of cheating?

Yes.  Ultimately, the FBI is going to be MORE concerned with who is behind the money....so if Ward cooperated and gave a name, they would probably cut a deal with him for that name.  IF Ward is guilty, he will not go unpunished, but the FBI's goal is going to be finding out where his motivations to point shave is coming from.  That person will probably suffer the most severe punishment. 

We AU fans, alums, students need to get ready and brace ourselves for the media outcry on this. Once again, AU will be dragged through the mud, regardless of what Charles Robinson says. It strikes me as kinda funny that with all the crap about Saban and those 2 kids he screwed about scholarships and all the mess about Kouandjo (I know, misspelled) and the Calloway kid and the Gadsden Dodge Dealership and T-Town Menswear, that THIS would hit now. How fortuitous for those jerks in Tuscaloosa.

[AEAugirl 9,633]

Just a thought....

Has anyone looked at how the outcome of the Arky/AU game might have affected Alabama basketball, in any way?  There is SOME reason they are looking at that particular game, and it surely does not look suspicious as far as "point shaving" is concerned. 

[aujdub 0]

but who in the world would bet on Auburn basketball?

A gambling friend of mine told me once that you never bet on a team; you bet on the spread.

[cptau 169]

NCAA came down pretty hard on past point-shaving scandals, didn't KY nearly get the death penalty? Also believe Tulane suspended the Bball program over their scandal? Now if found that Ward owed his bookie or drug supplier, and had to shave to avoid breaking both knees, AU will not get slapped as hard UNLESS an AU booster is involved. If Ward has any sense he will tell all to authorities so they can go after the person that set this up-

Back in the 1950s the NCAA and SEC had more of a purest attitude toward college sports.  They were upset that certain schools were making lots of money.   

In the early 1950s UK was caught up in a New York gambling/ point shaving scandal involving several teams.  3 UK players plead guilty in state court.  Basically their basketball careers were over. 

10 SEC member schools voted not to play UK in 1952/ 53 season.  Only Tennessee voted against the SEC's sanction of UK.  Basically the SEC led by LSU decided if you can't beat them on the court to beat them in a meeting room.  Interestingly the formal charges against UK were never stated, but UK did not appeal the one year of no SEC games. 

UK then began to schedule non conference games to replace the SEC games.  The SEC commissioner at the time privately urged the NCAA to take action against UK.  The NCAA stepped in and banned UK from playing any basketball games for 1953/ 53.  The ban was based on charges that several players had received up to $50 from "sports enthusiasts" not connected with the university on 5 different occasions.  College players being given small amounts of money was very common back them,    UK again did not appeal.

UK's team continued to practice during the non season.  So it was not a "death penalty" really.

LSU won the SEC championship that season.........

The NCAA and SEC scrutiny of UK also spilled into the football program.  A certain football coach at UK decided he did not like all the SEC and NCAA investigations and left for Texas A&M.............

[kevon67 2,368]

The NCAA can't do a thing to Auburn. This has nothing to do with rule breaking. This is about a selfish kid, making money, to ensure that Auburn doesn't cover the point spread.

Are you with the FBI?

Nope, I just have common sense. What NCAA rule did Auburn break? As I said in another thread on this subject....This is no different than our 4 idiot football players going and kicking in a trailer door. This is about a federal crime committed by an individual who just happens to play basketball for Auburn. This isn't about Auburn and any wrongdoing in any shape, form, or fashion.

I'm with you on this. BUT....this story is only 4 hrs. old right now. IF this has been going on for awhile and the NCAA deems that either Barbee or Jacobs should have known about it, then it could be looked at as lack of institutional control.

That is an extreme strecth IMO. From what I know, the yahoo article, Auburn contacted the SEC, NCAA, and FBI as soon as they learned of this accusation. Auburn suspended two players immediately. After questioning both of the players, one was deemed to have no part in this. The other apparently is neck deep in it. Now if Auburn tried to hide it we would be in serious trouble. To be in trouble with the NCAA you have to break rules as an institution. Do you think Barbee knew a player was trying to throw games and kept playing him? Again, this is about an individual breaking the law. The fact he plays for us sucks, but it is what it is. I heard about this on BSPN. They made it very clear that Auburn was the ones that contacted the authorities about this. This shows me Auburn in no way tried to cover it up.

I am with WarEagle10, cant imagine Coaches or anyone with Auburn would cover someone who is costing you games.

[AUGradinTX 0]

Was listening to Cowherd this morning and according to someone he knows (I didn't catch the guy's name), the games in question do not show tendencies typical of point shaving. I missed much of the explanation, but it was good to hear him say that on a national radio program.

[SuperNova 0]

Saw a tweet yesterday from someone in Vegas and they said they said that no irregular betting patterns were seen for Auburn Basketball this season. So that would lead me to believe that is was an illegal in-state betting operation working with VW to keep AU's points down to make the spread. Just my guess.

[keesler 5,928]

Was listening to Cowherd this morning and according to someone he knows (I didn't catch the guy's name), the games in question do not show tendencies typical of point shaving. I missed much of the explanation, but it was good to hear him say that on a national radio program.

They do not show tendencies of typical point shaving ATS ----  But they could easily show tendencies of point shaving against the O/U.  Many, many folks bet the O/U and don't even touch the spread.  If you're betting the O/U, then more than likely your betting at the halftime lines as well, especially if you're trying to hedge your first half wager.

[im4au 44]

If Ward was shaving points (let's remember he's innocent until proven guilty) I can only imagine how badly his teammates would like to "discuss" the situation with him.

[dpwspringer 0]

According to my sources inside the FBI, Danny Sheridan is the bagman... well, they think he could be the bagman.  I'm not saying he is but I would not be surprised if he was.  I put the odds at 50-50 but I don't think anything will ever come out about it.  And you can quote me on this.  Shame on you, Danny Sheridan... bad bookie, bad bookie! (if you really did  it). 

[AUGradinTX 0]

The O\U went 1-1 in these 2 games (as did ATS). The Arkansas game was competitive with Auburn losing by 6 while the O\U was over by 13 points. If Ward was shaving for the under in this game you wouldn't expect Auburn to be within 6 points by games end. Who knows though.

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/teams/team-page.cfm/team/auburn

[Velvet Beavis 15]

Was listening to Cowherd this morning and according to someone he knows (I didn't catch the guy's name), the games in question do not show tendencies typical of point shaving. I missed much of the explanation, but it was good to hear him say that on a national radio program.

They do not show tendencies of typical point shaving ATS ----  But they could easily show tendencies of point shaving against the O/U.  Many, many folks bet the O/U and don't even touch the spread. If you're betting the O/U, then more than likely your betting at the halftime lines as well, especially if you're trying to hedge your first half wager.

This could explain a lot of extremely bad calls in the first half of several games if the referees were involved.  Not saying they are, but how can they be that bad and keep their job??? And not just this season I might add.

[AU64 10,122]

I would think that any Las Vegas betting activity regarding AU for the past several years would be considered as "unusual".  The team has been totally unpredictable for as long as I can remember.   

As for the subect of this topic....what point is there in trying to conjure up some "worst case" possibilities?  Everything to date says the coaches acted promptly and as noted by several people, it would be insane for a coach to protect a player who was hurting his team's performance. 

The only people talking and hoping for "worst case" have no interest in AU's well-being.  This will be an in-state crisis kept alive by the in-state media like Scarb and Finescum.

[keesler 5,928]

I would think that any Las Vegas betting activity regarding AU for the past several years would be considered as "unusual".  The team has been totally unpredictable for as long as I can remember.   

As for the subect of this topic....what point is there in trying to conjure up some "worst case" possibilities?   Everything to date says the coaches acted promptly and as noted by several people, it would be insane for a coach to protect a player who was hurting his team's performance.   

The only people talking and hoping for "worst case" have no interest in AU's well-being.   This will be an in-state crisis kept alive by the in-state media like Scarb and Finescum.

I can't stand those sons of .....................

[TigerinArk 0]

It is a shame but Auburn (even on FOX) needs to be hit and hit heavy.  I think it is coming and incidents like this may open the NCAA's eyes.  that would be awful to say the least.

[mustache eagle 2,412]

I can't stand those sons of .....................

i think i see what you did there and if so, that was well played and quite funny!

on a side note ... why does everyone assume this has to do with gambling???  I know it is the typical obvious, but point shaving could be about wins/losses and not spreads and over/unders.  Not to beat the conspiracy theory drum, but if bama was concerned about getting into the ncaa tourny, then a booster dropping a grand or 2 to a player to get an all-important away win.  they were hard to come by this year - particularly for a bama team that has had its away troubles in the last couple of years.

as far as the arky game.  bama beat them twice this year.  an auburn loss at arky would boost arky and therefore bamas win at arky.  in the desire to get into the ncaa tourney, a couple of away sec wins could be all the difference.  

also dont forget auburn was 14-1 at home up until the bama game, with the one loss being a very closely played game against the now #1 team in the country.  the casual observer would be impressed by a bama win at auburn with that kind of home record to that point (of course basketball people realize our home schedule was weak).

bottom line, i think this has nothing to do with betting and everything to do with ego and the opportunity to beat your rival while you are at it.

[gAUlf 1]

It is a shame but Auburn (even on FOX) needs to be hit and hit heavy.  I think it is coming and incidents like this may open the NCAA's eyes.  that would be awful to say the least.

Huh? Why does Auburn need to be hit hard and heavy? Please explain. What did Auburn do?

[keesler 5,928]

I can't stand those sons of .....................

i think i see what you did there and if so, that was well played and quite funny!

on a side note ... why does everyone assume this has to do with gambling???  I know it is the typical obvious, but point shaving could be about wins/losses and not spreads and over/unders.  Not to beat the conspiracy theory drum, but if bama was concerned about getting into the ncaa tourny, then a booster dropping a grand or 2 to a player to get an all-important away win.  they were hard to come by this year - particularly for a bama team that has had its away troubles in the last couple of years.

as far as the arky game.  bama beat them twice this year.  an auburn loss at arky would boost arky and therefore bamas win at arky.  in the desire to get into the ncaa tourney, a couple of away sec wins could be all the difference.  

also dont forget auburn was 14-1 at home up until the bama game, with the one loss being a very closely played game against the now #1 team in the country.  the casual observer would be impressed by a bama win at auburn with that kind of home record to that point (of course basketball people realize our home schedule was weak).

bottom line, i think this has nothing to do with betting and everything to do with ego and the opportunity to beat your rival while you are at it.

If you honestly think this whole fiasco has roots to bama and their quest to reach the NCAA tourney, then pray tell why in the he!! is the freakin FBI investigating OUR players?  

Anthony Grant suspended more of this own players throughout the year than any team in the SEC, and they lost some games due to those suspensions.  Sorry I'm just scratching my head at your suggestions, they don't make sense.

Man you are beating the conspiracy drum pretty hard and heavy in this one.

[keesler 5,928]

It is a shame but Auburn (even on FOX) needs to be hit and hit heavy.  I think it is coming and incidents like this may open the NCAA's eyes.  that would be awful to say the least.

What?

[kevon67 2,368]

I would think that any Las Vegas betting activity regarding AU for the past several years would be considered as "unusual".  The team has been totally unpredictable for as long as I can remember.   

As for the subect of this topic....what point is there in trying to conjure up some "worst case" possibilities?   Everything to date says the coaches acted promptly and as noted by several people, it would be insane for a coach to protect a player who was hurting his team's performance.   

The only people talking and hoping for "worst case" have no interest in AU's well-being.   This will be an in-state crisis kept alive by the in-state media like Scarb and Finescum.

Well put sir.

[auclong 1]

I know it sounds farfetched, but who in the world would bet on Auburn basketball? The more I think about it the more nervous I get. It could very well be someone from Texas, Las Vegas or the Moon that was talking to Ward. But it is not out of the realm of possibility that it could be someone with ties to the program that got to him. I'm just saying it's a little premature to assume that no trouble will come from this.

This would not be a person(s) per see betting on Auburn; they are gamblers who bet and are willing to pay someone money to increase the odds of them making money. It could be and quite possibility there are other teams as well if this all plays out. The sky is not falling for Auburn and we still don`t know if Ward did this or not. I hope in the long run he didn`t do this but time will tell.

[mustache eagle 2,412]

I can't stand those sons of .....................

i think i see what you did there and if so, that was well played and quite funny!

on a side note ... why does everyone assume this has to do with gambling???  I know it is the typical obvious, but point shaving could be about wins/losses and not spreads and over/unders.  Not to beat the conspiracy theory drum, but if bama was concerned about getting into the ncaa tourny, then a booster dropping a grand or 2 to a player to get an all-important away win.  they were hard to come by this year - particularly for a bama team that has had its away troubles in the last couple of years.

as far as the arky game.  bama beat them twice this year.  an auburn loss at arky would boost arky and therefore bamas win at arky.  in the desire to get into the ncaa tourney, a couple of away sec wins could be all the difference. 

also dont forget auburn was 14-1 at home up until the bama game, with the one loss being a very closely played game against the now #1 team in the country.  the casual observer would be impressed by a bama win at auburn with that kind of home record to that point (of course basketball people realize our home schedule was weak).

bottom line, i think this has nothing to do with betting and everything to do with ego and the opportunity to beat your rival while you are at it.

If you honestly think this whole fiasco has roots to bama and their quest to reach the NCAA tourney, then pray tell why in the he!! is the freakin FBI investigating OUR players? 

Anthony Grant suspended more of this own players throughout the year than any team in the SEC, and they lost some games due to those suspensions.  Sorry I'm just scratching my head at your suggestions, they don't make sense.

Man you are beating the conspiracy drum pretty hard and heavy in this one.

no i dont honestly think that, but is valid speculation ... just floating a balloon for discussions' sake, since the vast pull of this debate has been about gambling.  why does it have to be gambling related.  that narrows the discussion.  it also relates (i.e. the bama angle) to the complaining about the refs in the bama game.  now personally i disagree with this angle ... the refs may have sucked, but i just dont think you will get an sec officiating crew of 3 to get paid off to influence a game.

now paying off a player ... yea, i think that happens.  there was a "crime guy" (who has written a book on the subject, i think) that has been on the radio in the Bham market who talked about getting basketball players to influence game results.  he said, once they bite, then you have them forever.  

i never said this had anything to do with anthony grant or inside the bama program.  i think anthony grant is a standup guy.  his player suspensions show that and he made out great by doing the right thing for the long term future of his program.

as far as the fbi is concerned ... they have to start somewhere dont they?  generally they will start at the beginning, right?  with the first lead they have, right?  that would be ward.  the fbi nor auburn leaked this story.  nor did the ncaa or sec ... at least not formally.  formally, no one should officially know anything about the fbi investigting this.  i would guess that the fbi is unhappy that this is out in the light.  they may yet find a lead back to a bama booster, a sportsbook, a local (montgomery) bookie or to the dang president of alabama ... i dont know.  but you cant say this is not just as legitimate an angle as any other that has been floated.

right now there are no facts out.  only the story (and press releases) that ward was being investigated for point shaving.  the first assumption is someone paid him ... then it is anyones guess as to who and why, right?

[keesler 5,928]

^^Sure man - you're "right" about it all.

[mustache eagle 2,412]

^^Sure man - you're "right" about it all.

you right, i did put to many rights, right?  a little to smart allecky than i typically do.  a little squirrelly this afternoon.  i need to go exercise and drink a beer.