Not so fast my...

[Dixie1860 27]

...Self! Last night as I was thinking back on some players we have seen play well the last few weeks. It occured to me that maybe we have been to quick to judge some players as "busts" or not what we expected. Melvin Ray is one who was a Message Board wonder prior to last season. Same with Corey Grant. We heard so much about them that it was very "concerning" when they didn't even so much as scratch the field last season. Are there others? Just something I was curious to ask the board.

[80Tiger 904]

...Self! Last night as I was thinking back on some players we have seen play well the last few weeks. It occured to me that maybe we have been to quick to judge some players as "busts" or not what we expected. Melvin Ray is one who was a Message Board wonder prior to last season. Same with Corey Grant. We heard so much about them that it was very "concerning" when they didn't even so much as scratch the field last season. Are there others? Just something I was curious to ask the board.

Wasn't Corey Grant ineligible to play last year due to the transfer? Not sure about Melvin Ray.

[WarEagle101 0]

Ray had a lot of playing time again WCU..he has been getting more and more reps in different roles. He was out of football for a long time so it was going to take him a while to get back in the groove regardless. I think the coming in immediately and being a stud was kind of a long shot. Grant just fits Malzahn's system by having great speed and can get in space..he just did not fit the system last year.

[CameronCrazy 1,085]

Anthony Swain and Justin Delaine have both made some big plays this year.

[selias 2,398]

In a word? Coaching.

The staff is developing the talent on the current roster in addition to changing the mentality of the players.

[Tiger 8,830]

Didn't Kris Frost come in as a WR/ATH? He also still has to learn the position

[FHeal 4]

In a word? Coaching.

The staff is developing the talent on the current roster in addition to changing the mentality of the players.

In a word? Coaching.

The staff is developing the talent on the current roster in addition to changing the mentality of the players.

Yep .... making better use of what you got, instead of trying to form into something you're not.... and building up instead of tearing down.

[selias 2,398]

In a word? Coaching.

The staff is developing the talent on the current roster in addition to changing the mentality of the players.

Yep .... making better use of what you got, instead of trying to form into something you're not.... and building up instead of tearing down.

I'm sure some "tearing down" happened, but you have to do that in order to build back up.

[McLoofus 35,182]

he just did not fit the system last year.

You can say that about every single player on the team except the special teams guys, because they were the only unit who actually had a system.

[FHeal 4]

In a word? Coaching.

The staff is developing the talent on the current roster in addition to changing the mentality of the players.

Yep .... making better use of what you got, instead of trying to form into something you're not.... and building up instead of tearing down.

I'm sure some "tearing down" happened, but you have to do that in order to build back up.

Not always... sometimes it's quicker and just as good to take an adequate inventory and then go from there. Yes, you're right, garbage in garbage out. For instance the staff (like you said) was found lacking and gone, swiped clean, ground up anew. Not all were suspect.. but too many, With the team however it appears Gus has used a sharp eye, deft scalpel, and better plan utilizing the same (jus 1 year) talent as last year. Freshmen have been great - no doubt. But chances are the other staff would have been too busy tearing them down... instead of having these results this year.

[IronMan70 3,277]

...Self! Last night as I was thinking back on some players we have seen play well the last few weeks. It occured to me that maybe we have been to quick to judge some players as "busts" or not what we expected. Melvin Ray is one who was a Message Board wonder prior to last season. Same with Corey Grant. We heard so much about them that it was very "concerning" when they didn't even so much as scratch the field last season. Are there others? Just something I was curious to ask the board.

The position coaches on this staff are developing these players much better. Each player is then more likely to be able to demonstrate his true talent. After that all happens, this staff is better at recognizing that talent then putting it on the field.

[Dixie1860 27]

The tearing down is still going on in some aspects. Patrick Miller, Brandon Fulse...need I say more? what I was really getting at though is the fact that I have seen certain posters who have chided both myself and others for predicting good things for certain players. Thus deeming them failures as SO and FR when it is painfully obvious they were not being coached and/or were grossly misused.. Along with Ray we could add Gabe Wright and Angelo Blackson at DT. Justin Derlaine, Kemaiya Harrell and Ladarius Owens at DE. Even Therieze was deemed to be a tweener and didn't see much PT last year. I simply thank the Good Lord that our current FR were able to avoid a year of incorrect usage, if you will.

[TheBlueVue 177]

...Self! Last night as I was thinking back on some players we have seen play well the last few weeks. It occured to me that maybe we have been to quick to judge some players as "busts" or not what we expected. Melvin Ray is one who was a Message Board wonder prior to last season. Same with Corey Grant. We heard so much about them that it was very "concerning" when they didn't even so much as scratch the field last season. Are there others? Just something I was curious to ask the board.

The position coaches on this staff are developing these players much better. Each player is then more likely to be able to demonstrate his true talent. After that all happens, this staff is better at recognizing that talent then putting it on the field.

I agree. Sadly, hindsight only reveals the former staffs ineptitude. I had no idea just how important Gus and Tracy Rocker were to the team.Obviously, they were the only real coaches or at least the only ones actually working on their craft. The others seemed like clowns and cut ups and, unbelievably, more interested in being friends with the players than mentoring and coaching them. In any event, their results were shockingly abysmal once those 2 were no longer around to do all the heavy lifting..

[aucanucktiger 1,798]

In a word? Coaching.

The staff is developing the talent on the current roster in addition to changing the mentality of the players.

Yep .... making better use of what you got, instead of trying to form into something you're not.... and building up instead of tearing down.

I'm sure some "tearing down" happened, but you have to do that in order to build back up.

Not always... sometimes it's quicker and just as good to take an adequate inventory and then go from there. Yes, you're right, garbage in garbage out. For instance the staff (like you said) was found lacking and gone, swiped clean, ground up anew. Not all were suspect.. but too many, With the team however it appears Gus has used a sharp eye, deft scalpel, and better plan utilizing the same (jus 1 year) talent as last year. Freshmen have been great - no doubt. But chances are the other staff would have been too busy tearing them down... instead of having these results this year.

Of course basically the only difference between last year's staff and the one that built up to an undefeated 2010 national title season was...Loeffler and Van Gorder. So maybe when talking about actual coaching, instead of "staff" you mean "OC Loeffler and DC Van Gorder"?

[JFDTiger80 790]

Didn't Kris Frost come in as a WR/ATH? He also still has to learn the position

The was a. LB in HS as well. he was a very highly rated recruit. I still think he will be a really nice player.

[FHeal 4]

Perhaps- although complacency and entitlement might have played a part as well.

** edit ** post above - not Frost

[TheBlueVue 177]

In a word? Coaching.

The staff is developing the talent on the current roster in addition to changing the mentality of the players.

Yep .... making better use of what you got, instead of trying to form into something you're not.... and building up instead of tearing down.

I'm sure some "tearing down" happened, but you have to do that in order to build back up.

Not always... sometimes it's quicker and just as good to take an adequate inventory and then go from there. Yes, you're right, garbage in garbage out. For instance the staff (like you said) was found lacking and gone, swiped clean, ground up anew. Not all were suspect.. but too many, With the team however it appears Gus has used a sharp eye, deft scalpel, and better plan utilizing the same (jus 1 year) talent as last year. Freshmen have been great - no doubt. But chances are the other staff would have been too busy tearing them down... instead of having these results this year.

Of course basically the only difference between last year's staff and the one that built up to an undefeated 2010 national title season was...Loeffler and Van Gorder. So maybe when talking about actual coaching, instead of "staff" you mean "OC Loeffler and DC Van Gorder"?

That would be correct but in reality the significance of the 2 coaches who held those respective positions before Loeffler and VanGorder got there represented much more than just 2 coaches. As we saw going forward from their departure, the others were just bodies taking up space and those 2 coaches were the ones carrying all the weight.

[AU64 10,122]

The tearing down is still going on in some aspects. Patrick Miller, Brandon Fulse...need I say more? what I was really getting at though is the fact that I have seen certain posters who have chided both myself and others for predicting good things for certain players. Thus deeming them failures as SO and FR when it is painfully obvious they were not being coached and/or were grossly misused.. Along with Ray we could add Gabe Wright and Angelo Blackson at DT. Justin Derlaine, Kemaiya Harrell and Ladarius Owens at DE. Even Therieze was deemed to be a tweener and didn't see much PT last year. I simply thank the Good Lord that our current FR were able to avoid a year of incorrect usage, if you will.

I don't get this...most of the guys who were freshmen last season are now playing better....I mean, who could have imagined that after a year of physical training and working with the coaches that they might have actually made progress? Last year most of them were about 4 months out of HS and playing against men 3 or 4 years older with two or three seasons of experience in the SEC. I don't blame any of the previous coaches because they were saddled with a bunch of HS kids last season...as much as I think BVG and Lefty blew it. In reality, they had no SEC quality QB and only a few seasoned players to work with.

JMO of course but the idea that the current crop of coaches have turned some miracle is a joke. In my view, the current coaches have done a good job taking some very good talent that has matured a year from 2012 and turned them into pretty solid team and they get credit for that....but most of these sophs and FS frosh were 4* and it's expected that they would be better after a year in the weight program and the training table....and they should be better still next year too.

[Dixie1860 27]

The tearing down is still going on in some aspects. Patrick Miller, Brandon Fulse...need I say more? what I was really getting at though is the fact that I have seen certain posters who have chided both myself and others for predicting good things for certain players. Thus deeming them failures as SO and FR when it is painfully obvious they were not being coached and/or were grossly misused.. Along with Ray we could add Gabe Wright and Angelo Blackson at DT. Justin Derlaine, Kemaiya Harrell and Ladarius Owens at DE. Even Therieze was deemed to be a tweener and didn't see much PT last year. I simply thank the Good Lord that our current FR were able to avoid a year of incorrect usage, if you will.

I don't get this...most of the guys who were freshmen last season are now playing better....I mean, who could have imagined that after a year of physical training and working with the coaches that they might have actually made progress? Last year most of them were about 4 months out of HS and playing against men 3 or 4 years older with two or three seasons of experience in the SEC. I don't blame any of the previous coaches because they were saddled with a bunch of HS kids last season...as much as I think BVG and Lefty blew it. In reality, they had no SEC quality QB and only a few seasoned players to work with.

JMO of course but the idea that the current crop of coaches have turned some miracle is a joke. In my view, the current coaches have done a good job taking some very good talent that has matured a year from 2012 and turned them into pretty solid team and they get credit for that....but most of these sophs and FS frosh were 4* and it's expected that they would be better after a year in the weight program and the training table....and they should be better still next year too.

I haven't claimed any miracles have happened, just that some have been too quick to label certain players as busts. How many times have you seen people make jokes directed at Ray? Or even Chad Slade? I have done this myself at times. Maybe I should have said it that way.

My point was that I have had to re-think my opinion of more than one AU player this season. I now realize I went about saying that pretty poorly! (Dang customers calling! Made me rush my OP.)

[FHeal 4]

The tearing down is still going on in some aspects. Patrick Miller, Brandon Fulse...need I say more? what I was really getting at though is the fact that I have seen certain posters who have chided both myself and others for predicting good things for certain players. Thus deeming them failures as SO and FR when it is painfully obvious they were not being coached and/or were grossly misused.. Along with Ray we could add Gabe Wright and Angelo Blackson at DT. Justin Derlaine, Kemaiya Harrell and Ladarius Owens at DE. Even Therieze was deemed to be a tweener and didn't see much PT last year. I simply thank the Good Lord that our current FR were able to avoid a year of incorrect usage, if you will.

I don't get this...most of the guys who were freshmen last season are now playing better....I mean, who could have imagined that after a year of physical training and working with the coaches that they might have actually made progress? Last year most of them were about 4 months out of HS and playing against men 3 or 4 years older with two or three seasons of experience in the SEC. I don't blame any of the previous coaches because they were saddled with a bunch of HS kids last season...as much as I think BVG and Lefty blew it. In reality, they had no SEC quality QB and only a few seasoned players to work with.

JMO of course but the idea that the current crop of coaches have turned some miracle is a joke. In my view, the current coaches have done a good job taking some very good talent that has matured a year from 2012 and turned them into pretty solid team and they get credit for that....but most of these sophs and FS frosh were 4* and it's expected that they would be better after a year in the weight program and the training table....and they should be better still next year too.

... and no longer in pro-set offense or same base defense. The system at hand favors the talents of those at hand better and the system(s) recruited for. The choice to change was always predicated on a learning curve; however no one truly imagined just how steep it might become.

[AU64 10,122]

The tearing down is still going on in some aspects. Patrick Miller, Brandon Fulse...need I say more? what I was really getting at though is the fact that I have seen certain posters who have chided both myself and others for predicting good things for certain players. Thus deeming them failures as SO and FR when it is painfully obvious they were not being coached and/or were grossly misused.. Along with Ray we could add Gabe Wright and Angelo Blackson at DT. Justin Derlaine, Kemaiya Harrell and Ladarius Owens at DE. Even Therieze was deemed to be a tweener and didn't see much PT last year. I simply thank the Good Lord that our current FR were able to avoid a year of incorrect usage, if you will.

I don't get this...most of the guys who were freshmen last season are now playing better....I mean, who could have imagined that after a year of physical training and working with the coaches that they might have actually made progress? Last year most of them were about 4 months out of HS and playing against men 3 or 4 years older with two or three seasons of experience in the SEC. I don't blame any of the previous coaches because they were saddled with a bunch of HS kids last season...as much as I think BVG and Lefty blew it. In reality, they had no SEC quality QB and only a few seasoned players to work with.

JMO of course but the idea that the current crop of coaches have turned some miracle is a joke. In my view, the current coaches have done a good job taking some very good talent that has matured a year from 2012 and turned them into pretty solid team and they get credit for that....but most of these sophs and FS frosh were 4* and it's expected that they would be better after a year in the weight program and the training table....and they should be better still next year too.

I haven't claimed any miracles have happened, just that some have been too quick to label certain players as busts. How many times have you seen people make jokes directed at Ray? Or even Chad Slade? I have done this myself at times. Maybe I should have said it that way.

My point was that I have had to re-think my opinion of more than one AU player this season. I now realize I went about saying that pretty poorly! (Dang customers calling! Made me rush my OP.)

I understand but I think that most people did not give the previous coaches enough credit for the handicap they were working under. They had real talent (and we still have most of it) but after losing 30 players at one time, the replacements were basically frosh and sure we get a few that can make an impact in year #1 but most of our recruits needed a year or so in the system to mature a bit...and tossing them into the SEC wars did not help them that much. And as noted above, that does not take into account that most were not suited to the offensive and defensive plans that BVG and Lefty brought with them...and I'm not sure either of those coaches were "teachers".

The current staff is back to running the O that most of these kids were brought here to run and the QB situation has improved.....and all of them are a year older, stronger and wiser after struggling through last season. Next year, with only a hand full of senior leaving, the Tigers should be a team to fear.

[McLoofus 35,182]

I think that most people did not give the previous coaches enough credit for the handicap they were working under.

It was Chizik's 4th year.

I think we could have forgiven a 6-6 or even 5-7 team that actually showed up for the games they lost. But there is no excuse for what happened last year, nor for what happened in almost every game that mattered the year before:

2011

Clemson 38-24 L

Arkansas 38-14 L

LSU 45-10 L

UGA 45-7 L

UAT 42-14 L

2011

Clemson 26-19 L

MSU 28-10 L

LSU 12-10 L <--If you'll remember, scoring 10 points in a loss to LSU at home was the highlight of our season

Arkansas 24-7 L

Ole Miss 41-20 L

A&M 63-21 L

UGA 38-0 L

UAT 49-0 L

Read that again. We lost to both UGA and bama in consecutive years by a combined score of 174-21 (avg. 43-5), and the 2nd round- in which we failed to score a single point- happened in Chizik's 4th year.

I credit Chizik for the championship; therefore, I also blame him for the most monumental failure of my lifetime (and 2nd ain't even close).

[Rednilla 5,397]

...Self! Last night as I was thinking back on some players we have seen play well the last few weeks. It occured to me that maybe we have been to quick to judge some players as "busts" or not what we expected. Melvin Ray is one who was a Message Board wonder prior to last season. Same with Corey Grant. We heard so much about them that it was very "concerning" when they didn't even so much as scratch the field last season. Are there others? Just something I was curious to ask the board.

Wasn't Corey Grant ineligible to play last year due to the transfer? Not sure about Melvin Ray.

No, he sat out per the transfer rule in 2011 after redshirting at Bama in 2010. Ray never had to sit out a year.

And to the OP's point, Ray is still only a sophomore, even if he is in his mid-20s, so he has plenty of time to start stepping up. I know I was excited to see him in the game against WCU, because he has the size and athleticism to be an outstanding receiver.

[jcm81 2]

This is a good article with a similar discussion.

http://www.auburntigers.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/101813aaa.html