***2017 4* JUCO QB Jarrett Stidham Signs with AU!!! (12/14/16)

[DAG 34,035]

4 hours ago, AUwent said:

Are we already ditching WB? Him, SW, and Bishop wouldn't be a bad depth chart. Still want Stidham, but somehow I see our QB situation being a slight bit better next year.

 

I hope Bishop is NOT at QB.

[AU64 10,122]

9 hours ago, DAG said:

I hope Bishop is NOT at QB.

We usually try to make QBs into WRs..not the other way around though I see him listed as ATH and I'm never sure what that means?  

Edited November 17, 2016 by AU64

[ellitor 33,114]

20 minutes ago, AU64 said:

We usually try to make QBs into WRs..not the other way around though I see him listed as ATH and I'm never sure what that means?  

 the staff likes him at wide receiver if he does not do well with his shot at Quarterback. and he is playing quarterback this season for his High School

[AU64 10,122]

14 minutes ago, ellitor said:

 the staff likes him at wide receiver if he does not do well with his shot at Quarterback. and he is playing quarterback this season for his High School

I figured that ...and just hate to see players and coaches wasting a lot of time trying to make this conversion.   It rarely works though I'm sure someone will point out the one or two instances when, somewhere in college football,  an "ath" has made it as QB.....but in our search for a QB of the future, he does not seem like a viable candidate.

[ellitor 33,114]

14 minutes ago, AU64 said:

I figured that ...and just hate to see players and coaches wasting a lot of time trying to make this conversion.   It rarely works though I'm sure someone will point out the one or two instances when, somewhere in college football,  an "ath" has made it as QB.....but in our search for a QB of the future, he does not seem like a viable candidate.

 based on history the staff won't spend a lot of time on conversion if he does not impress them at quarterback. Jason Smith who was recruited exactly like Bishop only got a few days for example before being moved to wide receiver.

[DAG 34,035]

I imagine so. Based on his highlight film he is the best athlete on the field and in high school you want that person with the ball in his hands.  Still,  there is nothing in his passing game that makes me feel like he can make the jump to SEC qb. He would be a good short yardage wildcat qb though. 

Edited November 17, 2016 by DAG

[I_M4_AU 8,056]

40 minutes ago, ellitor said:

 based on history the staff won't spend a lot of time on conversion if he does not impress them at quarterback. Jason Smith who was recruited exactly like Bishop only got a few days for example before being moved to wide receiver.

Our most recent AB/ATH begs to differ.  Gus spent an inordinate amount of time getting JFIII ready.  Gus' QB evaluations are in question to many on this board and the product on the field, other than a healthy SW, has been suspect.  Is selling these players on a chance to play QB as disingenuous as Sumlin telling Mond that Stidham will only be at T A&M one year before he goes pro?

[Harp_AU2013 221]

26 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Our most recent AB/ATH begs to differ.  Gus spent an inordinate amount of time getting JFIII ready.  Gus' QB evaluations are in question to many on this board and the product on the field, other than a healthy SW, has been suspect.  Is selling these players on a chance to play QB as disingenuous as Sumlin telling Mond that Stidham will only be at T A&M one year before he goes pro?

I think Gus was forced to put his time into JF3. Queen was still hurt, JJ has proven himself to have a mental issue.. who else is left? I don't think Gus had a choice. Jason already made the transition.. I hope that Mond realizes that Stidham leaving isn't s sure thing and opens back up if Stidham chooses aTm. I still believe that Stidham is our first option if we have the choice between Mond and him. We have Woody here, why not give him the extra year to learn, if Stidham leave, woody will still have 3 years left to play. if not, Woody has 2 years and Joey gets time to come in and learn for a year or two before being thrown into the mix

 

[ellitor 33,114]

56 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Our most recent AB/ATH begs to differ.  Gus spent an inordinate amount of time getting JFIII ready.  Gus' QB evaluations are in question to many on this board and the product on the field, other than a healthy SW, has been suspect.  Is selling these players on a chance to play QB as disingenuous as Sumlin telling Mond that Stidham will only be at T A&M one year before he goes pro?

JF3 was never seen nor recruited as an athlete in any way by our staff no matter what us fans hoped or thought. He was always only seen as a QB by Gus & Rhett. This whole discussion is under the preface of how AU recruits players. Bishop is recruited and looked at by the staff completely different from JF3 & exactly like Jason Smith which means Bishop will probably get no more than 2 weeks to prove himself then get moved to WR if the staff does not like what it sees. Also Bishop is open to playing other positions. JF3 on the other hand has not been open to other positions through most of this season.

 

To answer your question the ones AU recruits as athletes w/ a shot at QB get a few days to a couple weeks to impress the staff at QB or get moved. Make up your own mind whether you think that's disingenuous or not.

[Gowebb11 9,430]

Gus has a very distinct offense he likes to run but the QBs he recruits are not aligned with that offense. White, JJ, Queen, JF3 are all different in size, speed, strength, skill set for running and/or passing. No rhyme or reason to that approach, in my humble opinion.  Based on his athleticism, I hope Bishop comes to AU but only time will tell if he's a QB or not. 

[fredst 9,064]

1 hour ago, Harp_AU2013 said:

I think Gus was forced to put his time into JF3. Queen was still hurt, JJ has proven himself to have a mental issue.. who else is left? I don't think Gus had a choice. Jason already made the transition.. I hope that Mond realizes that Stidham leaving isn't s sure thing and opens back up if Stidham chooses aTm. I still believe that Stidham is our first option if we have the choice between Mond and him. We have Woody here, why not give him the extra year to learn, if Stidham leave, woody will still have 3 years left to play. if not, Woody has 2 years and Joey gets time to come in and learn for a year or two before being thrown into the mix

 

Gus was "forced" to put that effort into JFIII because he made a poor decision about who to bring in as a QB alternative to the ones we had on the roster. There were other "finished products" that would have come to AU if the staff (GM/RL) had done a decent job of evaluating the available talent pool.

[AUBwins 10,107]

20 hours ago, DAG said:

This is so true. People need to come to realize that Gus will forever want an athlete or DT as his QB. Quite frankly I think SW has gotten the short end of the stick here. 

Yep.  This same mentality (and clock management goofs) got Les Miles fired from LSU.  They were always 1 system-fitting QB away from multiple championships IMO. 

[Harp_AU2013 221]

26 minutes ago, fredst said:

Gus was "forced" to put that effort into JFIII because he made a poor decision about who to bring in as a QB alternative to the ones we had on the roster. There were other "finished products" that would have come to AU if the staff (GM/RL) had done a decent job of evaluating the available talent pool.

Either way, they were "forced" to deal  with what they had. maybe they put to much into JJ being the man but who else was there to play? whether you believe he recruited or not, you cannot prove without a doubt that any of the "finished products" you are talking about would have been any better than JF3. JJ was supposed to be a finished product. Brandon HArris was supposed to be a finished product. Max Browne as well. All I am saying is recruiting is missed everywhere, not just at Auburn. The man had faith in his system and the guys he had recruited. 

[auburn4ever 1,266]

They just don't know how too recruit top QB's at this level.

[fredst 9,064]

4 minutes ago, Harp_AU2013 said:

Either way, they were "forced" to deal  with what they had. maybe they put to much into JJ being the man but who else was there to play? whether you believe he recruited or not, you cannot prove without a doubt that any of the "finished products" you are talking about would have been any better than JF3. JJ was supposed to be a finished product. Brandon HArris was supposed to be a finished product. Max Browne as well. All I am saying is recruiting is missed everywhere, not just at Auburn. The man had faith in his system and the guys he had recruited. 

I was thinking maybe Evans, now at VT, or Webb, now at Cal- both are clearly finished products that are clearly a better option than Franklin was ever going to be, especially Webb. Brandon Harris never was a sure thing and probably never will be. We chose to shop in the JUCO/grad transfer store and picked one of the least qualified options available at the time.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, fredst said:

I was thinking maybe Evans, now at VT, or Webb, now at Cal- both are clearly finished products that are clearly a better option than Franklin was ever going to be, especially Webb. Brandon Harris never was a sure thing and probably never will be. We chose to shop in the JUCO/grad transfer store and picked one of the least qualified options available at the time.

As E reminded me yesterday, Webb did something to make us back off of him. Apparently some people have noted that he appears to have authority issues. As for Evans, I'm still not certain he just didn't tell us he had no interest.

To add to what Harp is saying, take Lamar Jackson.  If you look back at his recruiting, he was not sought after at all.  He was an also-ran for a handful of teams, but no one was pushing for him.  Now he leads the Heisman race and all of the hindsighters are mad that their team didn't get him.

[GwillMac6 20,791]

2 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

As E reminded me yesterday, Webb did something to make us back off of him. Apparently some people have noted that he appears to have authority issues. As for Evans, I'm still not certain he just didn't tell us he had no interest.

To add to what Harp is saying, take Lamar Jackson.  If you look back at his recruiting, he was not sought after at all.  He was an also-ran for a handful of teams, but no one was pushing for him.  Now he leads the Heisman race and all of the hindsighters are mad that their team didn't get him.

I can promise you we chose to offer jf3 and did not extend a offer to evans. He desperately wanted to come to Auburn. We were his first choice if AU had offered. Gus chose wrong.... AGAIN.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

12 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

I can promise you we chose to offer jf3 and did not extend a offer to evans. He desperately wanted to come to Auburn. We were his first choice if AU had offered. Gus chose wrong.... AGAIN.

If you know this for absolute certain, then yes... the staff most definitely made the wrong choice. I'm not sure when they did that in the past for is to be an example of "again".

Edited November 17, 2016 by lionheartkc

[fredst 9,064]

12 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

As E reminded me yesterday, Webb did something to make us back off of him. Apparently some people have noted that he appears to have authority issues. As for Evans, I'm still not certain he just didn't tell us he had no interest.

To add to what Harp is saying, take Lamar Jackson.  If you look back at his recruiting, he was not sought after at all.  He was an also-ran for a handful of teams, but no one was pushing for him.  Now he leads the Heisman race and all of the hindsighters are mad that their team didn't get him.

Hey, I get it- recruiting is an inexact "science" at best. We just chose a guy that had never even remotely demonstrated that he had the skill set to come in and be a successful starting QB in the SEC. And, our staff clearly thought we needed someone that was capable of that. Thought it was a weird bit of recruiting at the time and have seen nothing to make me think otherwise.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

5 minutes ago, fredst said:

We just chose a guy that had never even remotely demonstrated that he had the skill set to come in and be a successful starting QB in the SEC. And, our staff clearly thought we needed someone that was capable of that. Thought it was a weird bit of recruiting at the time and have seen nothing to make me think otherwise.

You pretty much summed it up... but I guess to make it seem a little less "what the heck?" you can think of it this way... Franklin is just a Lamar Jackson who didn't pan out. Had he blossomed like Jackson did, we'd all be calling Gus a genius while we bought our tickets to the play-offs. You have to at least give the kid credit for giving it his very best shot.

Edited November 17, 2016 by lionheartkc

[I_M4_AU 8,056]

1 hour ago, ellitor said:

JF3 was never seen nor recruited as an athlete in any way by our staff no matter what us fans hoped or thought. He was always only seen as a QB by Gus & Rhett. This whole discussion is under the preface of how AU recruits players. Bishop is recruited and looked at by the staff completely different from JF3 & exactly like Jason Smith which means Bishop will probably get no more than 2 weeks to prove himself then get moved to WR if the staff does not like what it sees. Also Bishop is open to playing other positions. JF3 on the other hand has not been open to other positions through most of this season.

 

To answer your question the ones AU recruits as athletes w/ a shot at QB get a few days to a couple weeks to impress the staff at QB or get moved. Make up your own mind whether you think that's disingenuous or not.

You're the recruiting Guru and I appreciate your efforts, however, under JFIII's thread earlier (started 10/23/2015) the title states QB/ATH.  I know you have your fingers on the pulse of what the coaches are looking at in regards to recruits, but maybe the titles should reflect that.  I'm not sure you have the power to do that or not, the thread was not started by you.

The part about being disingenuous is; why does Gus recruit a guy he "thinks" might work out as a QB as opposed to recruiting someone that is a QB?  Is it because Gus and Rhett can't evaluate a QB unless he is seen in our system?  QB is not a position that you go to a school hoping that someone likes your skill set.  Essentially, he is wasting his and the recruit's time.  

You mentioned earlier that we will sign another QB other than Bishop(which is an ATH not a QB), I'll be anxiously awaiting that news. 

[metafour 4,969]

3 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

but I guess to make it seem a little less "what the heck?" you can think of it this way... Franklin is just a Lamar Jackson who didn't pan out. Had he blossomed like Jackson did, we'd all be calling Gus a genius while we bought out tickets to the play-offs.

Except that Franklin was a JUCO transfer who had already shown that he wasn't a difference making QB at FSU, and was barely a standout on his JUCO team either.  Jackson was a HS recruit, so comparing him to a guy that had already SHOWN YOU that he was a long stretch to succeed is quite silly.  Jackson may not have been an elite recruit, but he never showed that he COULDN'T succeed past the HS level.  Jackson's success also boils down to the fact that he has had a considerably better coach teaching him how to play the position.

Franklin is nothing more than Gus and his over-inflated ego thinking that he can just plug and play whoever he wants into his system and succeed.

 

[ellitor 33,114]

24 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

If you know this for absolute certain, then yes... the staff most definitely made the wrong choice. I'm not sure when they did that in the past for is to be an example of "again".

I won't go as far to say Evans wanted to come to AU desperately but he was very interested. He never got a commutable offer from au.

[metafour 4,969]

8 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

The part about being disingenuous is; why does Gus recruit a guy he "thinks" might work out as a QB as opposed to recruiting someone that is a QB?  Is it because Gus and Rhett can't evaluate a QB unless he is seen in our system?  QB is not a position that you go to a school hoping that someone likes your skill set.  Essentially, he is wasting his and the recruit's time.  

The answer is that Gus has an ego, period.  Why does he continually call plays that fail, expecting different results? Because like a lot of these new wave offensive guys who blow up through the ranks, they start believing that they are above everyone else...thus if something makes sense in their mind, then the only reason it can fail is because something didn't go as it should have.  Going from a HS coach to winning a title in short order, to taking Nick Marshall with little practice time and still putting up a dominant season hasn't helped at all because it has only confirmed his supposed "genius" in his own mind.  If you look at Malzahn's history, it is obvious that he has serious problems with being questioned about his offense.  Problems with both Nutt and Chizik when he was OC.  Problems with Craig questioning his theory/process that led to him doubling down and bringing in his "own guys" that won't question him (Kodi, Herb Hand, etc).

[ellitor 33,114]

26 minutes ago, fredst said:

Hey, I get it- recruiting is an inexact "science" at best. We just chose a guy that had never even remotely demonstrated that he had the skill set to come in and be a successful starting QB in the SEC. And, our staff clearly thought we needed someone that was capable of that. Thought it was a weird bit of recruiting at the time and have seen nothing to make me think otherwise.

Yep. Tried to catch lightning in a bottle looking for a  Nick Marshall 2.0 but unfortunately that lightning bolt struck us in the ass.