Michael Sams coming out party

[Weegle777 78]

Since I've been called everything but a child of GOD, I'll leave this for u guys...................................Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. (Matthew 7:1-5 KJV)

Here's that irony blindness thing again. :laugh:/>

And you're without sin, huh?

The Apostle Paul:

Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? 8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

If that passage you quoted meant what you act like it means, Paul himself would be guilty of judging. He's not. Calling actions wrong is not judging someone. Stop misusing that verse to deflect deserved criticism.

The key verse in that passage and the answer to what that passage means rests squarely in verse 11. Yet so many miss it.

[TitanTiger 20,506]

The key verse in that passage and the answer to what that passage means rests squarely in verse 11. Yet so many miss it.

True. But my point in posting it is, Paul was more than willing to call certain actions wrong and sinful. The first part of the passage he was getting on the Corinthians for filing lawsuits against each other and cheating each other. That's not judging them, it's speaking the uncomfortable truth to some people that probably didn't want to hear it.

[Weegle777 78]

The key verse in that passage and the answer to what that passage means rests squarely in verse 11. Yet so many miss it.

True. But my point in posting it is, Paul was more than willing to call certain actions wrong and sinful. The first part of the passage he was getting on the Corinthians for filing lawsuits against each other and cheating each other. That's not judging them, it's speaking the uncomfortable truth to some people that probably didn't want to hear it.

I was talking about the last part of your quote, but that is dead on my friend.

[Aufan59 74]

NFL players work on Sunday, the entire sport is therefore sinful. I think when watching the NFL or NFL related content, the sinful nature of the sport is well documented and well known. Viewer beware.

[DKW 86 7,433]

The key verse in that passage and the answer to what that passage means rests squarely in verse 11. Yet so many miss it.

True. But my point in posting it is, Paul was more than willing to call certain actions wrong and sinful. The first part of the passage he was getting on the Corinthians for filing lawsuits against each other and cheating each other. That's not judging them, it's speaking the uncomfortable truth to some people that probably didn't want to hear it.

Titan, Paul was adding to the list of sinful actions, not expounding them. He was bringing attention to those things that were sinful yet not seen as such by First Century Christians. "Sin is Sin, and all sin keeps us away from God." Sam's 'sin' is no worse than mine so i am not going to judge him. There is no hierarchy of sins. It is all the same.

To those that would say there is a hierarchy of sin:

"Lust – to have an intense desire or need: “But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart” (Matthew 5:28).

Gluttony – excess in eating and drinking (certainly on my own list): “for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags” (Proverbs 23:21).

Greed - excessive or reprehensible acquisitiveness: “Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more” (Ephesians 4:19).

Laziness – disinclined to activity or exertion: not energetic or vigorous: “The way of the sluggard is blocked with thorns, but the path of the upright is a highway” (Proverbs 15:19).

Wrath – strong vengeful anger or indignation: “A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger” (Proverbs 15:1)

Envy – painful or resentful awareness of an advantage enjoyed by another joined with a desire to possess the same advantage: “Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind. Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation” (1 Peter 2:1-2).

Pride - quality or state of being proud – inordinate self esteem: “Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall” (Proverbs 16:18).

What are the seven detestable sins according to the Bible?

“There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers” (Proverbs 6:16-19)."

In this delineation, nowhere is Sam's sin listed, excecpt maybe LUST. But listen to what Paul says: "anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." He isnt even talking about homosexual sin here, he is describing heterosexual lust, the lust that happens many times a day in a hetero man.

For the love of God i cannot see why so many men get freaked out about this, yet it has rocked on 56 pages so far. Watching some of you get so worked up and others mangle scripture has been really a fun ride so far tho. Please keep it up....

[TitanTiger 20,506]

Titan, Paul was adding to the list of sinful actions, not expounding them. He was bringing attention to those things that were sinful yet not seen as such by First Century Christians. "Sin is Sin, and all sin keeps us away from God." Sam's 'sin' is no worse than mine so i am not going to judge him. There is no hierarchy of sins. It is all the same.

I think you're missing my point. I only posted this because war eagle6 seems to think that the mere act of point out how his actions (his tone in this instance) come off is somehow "judging" him. I just showed one passage (I could have shown more) where an apostle points out various actions that are wrong to show that Jesus' admonition of "judge not" cannot mean that one is prohibited from pointing out that some actions are wrong or that someone's behavior seems a certain way (insensitive, unloving, inconsiderate, arrogant). That's it.

[DKW 86 7,433]

Titan, Paul was adding to the list of sinful actions, not expounding them. He was bringing attention to those things that were sinful yet not seen as such by First Century Christians. "Sin is Sin, and all sin keeps us away from God." Sam's 'sin' is no worse than mine so i am not going to judge him. There is no hierarchy of sins. It is all the same.

I think you're missing my point. I only posted this because war eagle6 seems to think that the mere act of point out how his actions (his tone in this instance) come off is somehow "judging" him. I just showed one passage (I could have shown more) where an apostle points out various actions that are wrong to show that Jesus' admonition of "judge not" cannot mean that one is prohibited from pointing out that some actions are wrong or that someone's behavior seems a certain way (insensitive, unloving, inconsiderate, arrogant). That's it.

As long as we have two very open eyes on our own shortcomings as well, i cant see anything wrong with that. So point away, as long as we realize that our 'sin' is still here, just takes a different form and is just as abhorent as anyone else's.

[TitanTiger 20,506]

Of course.

Though I still take issue with the idea that every sin is equal. I realize that the generalized "state" of sin...our fallenness...is equal in the sense that both separate us from God. But you're never going to be able to tell me that being a bit envious that your next door neighbor got a brand new car while yours is falling apart is completely equal to raping and murdering a child, for instance. I realize that's an extreme example, but I don't believe for a second that all sins are equal in severity - in the eyes of God or man.

Now, within categories I could go along with that. So in that sense, a straight person's sexual sin (adultery, sex between unmarried people, lust) is no better or worse than a gay person's sexual sin.

[japantiger 4,051]

Don't know what any of this has to do with whether the guy can play football or not.

[AUDub 11,160]

Don't know what any of this has to do with whether the guy can play football or not.

You must be new here! Welcome to the politics forum!

[quietfan 233]

I am really enjoying this thread.

I'm glad for you!

I found it entertaining at first, but it has moved into the boring, redundant, and pointless (not to mention angry & bitter) category for me.

(And yet, here I am, reading and commenting...perhaps I have masochistic tendencies I haven't acknowledged? )

[DKW 86 7,433]

Of course.

Though I still take issue with the idea that every sin is equal. I realize that the generalized "state" of sin...our fallenness...is equal in the sense that both separate us from God. But you're never going to be able to tell me that being a bit envious that your next door neighbor got a brand new car while yours is falling apart is completely equal to raping and murdering a child, for instance. I realize that's an extreme example, but I don't believe for a second that all sins are equal in severity - in the eyes of God or man.

Now, within categories I could go along with that. So in that sense, a straight person's sexual sin (adultery, sex between unmarried people, lust) is no better or worse than a gay person's sexual sin.

Well this is where i find the slippery slope stuff. Once you allow that someone's "actions" can be better or worse than someone else's does that mean someone may not need Christ as much? Does that mean that there is some better people out there? Jesus lived and ate with the publicans, the sinners, the harlots. He was not ashamed to be seen with them. He did not judge them nor shun them. We cannot influence those you do not interact with. I guess at some level i cannot do some things, cheat people knowingly, steal, kill (except in defense), etc. But i know that upon reflection of my youth i was certainly a drunkard and i continue to have some pretty strong lust in my heart even though i am now an middle aged man. Having said all that, i am not going to judge someone for their sins and i hope that i get the same from them. How can i judge another when i know that among sinners, i am the chief?

1 Timothy 1:15

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

[TheBlueVue 177]

Of course.

Though I still take issue with the idea that every sin is equal. I realize that the generalized "state" of sin...our fallenness...is equal in the sense that both separate us from God. But you're never going to be able to tell me that being a bit envious that your next door neighbor got a brand new car while yours is falling apart is completely equal to raping and murdering a child, for instance. I realize that's an extreme example, but I don't believe for a second that all sins are equal in severity - in the eyes of God or man.

Now, within categories I could go along with that. So in that sense, a straight person's sexual sin (adultery, sex between unmarried people, lust) is no better or worse than a gay person's sexual sin.

Isaiah 64:6

Categorizing sin is an exercise in futility unless of course it makes you feel better about yourself.

[TitanTiger 20,506]

Of course.

Though I still take issue with the idea that every sin is equal. I realize that the generalized "state" of sin...our fallenness...is equal in the sense that both separate us from God. But you're never going to be able to tell me that being a bit envious that your next door neighbor got a brand new car while yours is falling apart is completely equal to raping and murdering a child, for instance. I realize that's an extreme example, but I don't believe for a second that all sins are equal in severity - in the eyes of God or man.

Now, within categories I could go along with that. So in that sense, a straight person's sexual sin (adultery, sex between unmarried people, lust) is no better or worse than a gay person's sexual sin.

Isaiah 64:6

Categorizing sin is an exercise in futility unless of course it makes you feel better about yourself.

Not a thing in that passage contradicts anything I said.

[TitanTiger 20,506]

Of course.

Though I still take issue with the idea that every sin is equal. I realize that the generalized "state" of sin...our fallenness...is equal in the sense that both separate us from God. But you're never going to be able to tell me that being a bit envious that your next door neighbor got a brand new car while yours is falling apart is completely equal to raping and murdering a child, for instance. I realize that's an extreme example, but I don't believe for a second that all sins are equal in severity - in the eyes of God or man.

Now, within categories I could go along with that. So in that sense, a straight person's sexual sin (adultery, sex between unmarried people, lust) is no better or worse than a gay person's sexual sin.

Well this is where i find the slippery slope stuff. Once you allow that someone's "actions" can be better or worse than someone else's does that mean someone may not need Christ as much? Does that mean that there is some better people out there? Jesus lived and ate with the publicans, the sinners, the harlots. He was not ashamed to be seen with them. He did not judge them nor shun them. We cannot influence those you do not interact with. I guess at some level i cannot do some things, cheat people knowingly, steal, kill (except in defense), etc. But i know that upon reflection of my youth i was certainly a drunkard and i continue to have some pretty strong lust in my heart even though i am now an middle aged man. Having said all that, i am not going to judge someone for their sins and i hope that i get the same from them. How can i judge another when i know that among sinners, i am the chief?

1 Timothy 1:15

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

I've said nothing about not being a sinner as much in need of grace as anyone else. We are all born fallen and in need. Desperate need. But some sins are more serious than others. You know this. You live this way. Otherwise you'd get just as outraged at a boy who said something terrible to your daughter as you would another boy who tried to sexually assault her. You don't because the former, while still a sin and nothing to take lightly, simply isn't as serious a matter. You might tell the first boy's parents or tell him off. You'd be ready to rip the second one's esophagus out bare handed.

And the same Old Testament that Isaish passage comes from shows that not even God thinks every sin is equal.

I get the slippery slope worries. This isn't about trying to make anyone feel better that they haven't done any "big" sins. It's simple speaking reality. Some sins are more serious and it's usually either because the hardness of heart it takes to get to that point is so dangerous spiritually or the commission of the act itself sears ones conscience so badly that it risks a much quicker trip to a hardened and calloused heart. But don't tell me that all wrongs and sins are the same. I don't think that holds water logically or biblically.

[TheBlueVue 177]

Of course.

Though I still take issue with the idea that every sin is equal. I realize that the generalized "state" of sin...our fallenness...is equal in the sense that both separate us from God. But you're never going to be able to tell me that being a bit envious that your next door neighbor got a brand new car while yours is falling apart is completely equal to raping and murdering a child, for instance. I realize that's an extreme example, but I don't believe for a second that all sins are equal in severity - in the eyes of God or man.

Now, within categories I could go along with that. So in that sense, a straight person's sexual sin (adultery, sex between unmarried people, lust) is no better or worse than a gay person's sexual sin.

Isaiah 64:6

Categorizing sin is an exercise in futility unless of course it makes you feel better about yourself.

Not a thing in that passage contradicts anything I said.

Maybe not but saying anything beyond that is actually unnecessary...that's all.

[DKW 86 7,433]

A sin against me or my daughter is not to be compared to a sin against God.

While we may view sins between people on a sliding scale, i assure you God has a Zero Tolerance for it all.

We are not to be condemned for it however if we follow what is actually in scripture. God is not there to brutlly correct us 24/7.

But, man has to understand the Law to be able to recognize our place in the greater scheme. We are all flawed, some more than others, but

still we are ALL flawed.

The confusion is in perspective.

Man to Man, there is indeed a sliding scale. That is found in the God's Law too. The sacrifices for Man to Man crime/sin do indeed vary.

Man to God, any sin means you fail. In that we are all in the same boat. There is no difference for any man.

The Sacrifice is the same because the distinction is the same for all.

[jasonwde 0]

We aren't going to have insults and such on this thread. Discuss it like an adult or go somewhere else.

[AuburnArch13 185]

So...if there are translations that all say different things, how are they not "interpretations"?

That's a great question! And it is complicated. There are basically two types of translations:

1. Formal equivalence - Trying to translate word-for-word from the original language

2. Dynamic equivalence - Trying to capture the meaning of the text.

The King James most people are familiar with is a formal equivalence translation. For every word of Greek in the New Testament they tried to find one word in English (albeit Olde English) to match.

The Living Bible is a paraphrase that tries to capture the meaning of the original text. So, a lot of "interpretation" happens in these.

The King James Bible was not written in Old English. If it had been, odds are you wouldn't be able to read it. The King James Bible was written in Modern English, albeit at the end of the Early Modern Period of the languages is history. If my memory serves me well, Old English phased out around the 12th century and Middle English by the 16th.

[Weegle777 78]

Again I say, if you are a follower of Christ, you are not bound by the Law. When The Father looks at you, He sees Jesus, not you. Jesus took our place, and He gave us His. This is why we can say that we have freedom in Christ, because we are IN HIM. We live in two different places at the same time. On this planet, and seated with Christ in heaven right now. Does that mean that we have freedom to sin in any way? God forbid! It means that we are free to live in Him, in constant gratitude for what He did for us. You will NEVER be condemned again! If you are a homosexual that is a follower of Christ, and you have placed your trust in Him, believing that He is the true Son of God, and confess with your mouth that He is the Son of God, then guess what? You are free in Christ forever!

[alexava 6,973]

Of course.

Though I still take issue with the idea that every sin is equal. I realize that the generalized "state" of sin...our fallenness...is equal in the sense that both separate us from God. But you're never going to be able to tell me that being a bit envious that your next door neighbor got a brand new car while yours is falling apart is completely equal to raping and murdering a child, for instance. I realize that's an extreme example, but I don't believe for a second that all sins are equal in severity - in the eyes of God or man.

Now, within categories I could go along with that. So in that sense, a straight person's sexual sin (adultery, sex between unmarried people, lust) is no better or worse than a gay person's sexual sin.

The one faith(maybe just hope) i do have is that the one judging our permanent destination is more arbitrary than "every sin is equal".

[TheBlueVue 177]

Of course.

Though I still take issue with the idea that every sin is equal. I realize that the generalized "state" of sin...our fallenness...is equal in the sense that both separate us from God. But you're never going to be able to tell me that being a bit envious that your next door neighbor got a brand new car while yours is falling apart is completely equal to raping and murdering a child, for instance. I realize that's an extreme example, but I don't believe for a second that all sins are equal in severity - in the eyes of God or man.

Now, within categories I could go along with that. So in that sense, a straight person's sexual sin (adultery, sex between unmarried people, lust) is no better or worse than a gay person's sexual sin.

The one faith(maybe just hope) i do have is that the one judging our permanent destination is more arbitrary than "every sin is equal".

James 2:10

You do understand that no one will get to heaven without God's grace, right? I dont think the focus is on the sin but on humility and contrition. It really doesn't matter if all sin is equal or not.

[war eagle6 0]

Since I've been called everything but a child of GOD, I'll leave this for u guys...................................Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. (Matthew 7:1-5 KJV)

Here's that irony blindness thing again. :laugh:/>

And you're without sin, huh?

The Apostle Paul:

Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? 8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

If that passage you quoted meant what you act like it means, Paul himself would be guilty of judging. He's not. Calling actions wrong is not judging someone. Stop misusing that verse to deflect deserved criticism.

I didn't misuse that verse at all, he called me out like he has never made a mistake, by critiquing what I quoted. I'm not blind to irony as he stated, now neither one of u know me, so don't give me suggestions. I made it past 25, something my peers said I would never see because of the way I grew up and who I grew up with. Unless you are over 40, I don't need no ones advise. May be u feel better about yourself by trying to down rate someone u feel like can't compare to yourself. Try this, compare yourself to JESUS. If u feel your better than him, then maybe I will listen, until then,shalom.

[Maverick.AU 13,281]

The problem I have with it is not that he's a homosexual (to each his own), but for one the super zoom in on the kiss with his boyfriend in the draft was not needed, not to mention the cake smearing etc. People say just because you don't care to see a zoom of two men kissing on national tv that you're a bigot from the 50's/60's or "you didn't mind aaron murray's gf kissing him did you?" One it was on the cheek and 2 it wasn't zoomed in like "look at this maybe we'll catch some tongue in there!". The problem is the constant advertising of it, how many days on end did we see stuff on Michael Sam after his announcement? enough where people were saying "breaking news: Michael Sam is still gay". Now it's a monetary investment now with Sam getting an endorsement, I mean seriously what 7th round draft pick gets an endorsement deal that soon after being drafted? Thats the problem I have, the force feed/ unnecessary broadcasting of it and the profit off of someones sexual orientation, thats my issue.

[DKW 86 7,433]

Again I say, if you are a follower of Christ, you are not bound by the Law. When The Father looks at you, He sees Jesus, not you. Jesus took our place, and He gave us His. This is why we can say that we have freedom in Christ, because we are IN HIM. We live in two different places at the same time. On this planet, and seated with Christ in heaven right now. Does that mean that we have freedom to sin in any way? God forbid! It means that we are free to live in Him, in constant gratitude for what He did for us. You will NEVER be condemned again! If you are a homosexual that is a follower of Christ, and you have placed your trust in Him, believing that He is the true Son of God, and confess with your mouth that He is the Son of God, then guess what? You are free in Christ forever!

Gets it...