Defensive Struggles?

[Mikey 16,779]

....... Kris Frost is having an all-SEC caliber season......

He had an all-SEC caliber game against Samford. When the big boys are on the field, he's more often than not invisible.

Example: VS

Samford, 8 tackles, 5 assists

UGA, 1-5

UAT, 4-1

Arky, 0-0

That's as many as I care to check, but I believe that's fairly representative of Frost's season.

[AU64 10,122]

Certainly it is easier to recruit O players at AU with a flashy offense and an innovative coach. But I also believe that problems start in HS for all schools ....check the HS scores and its pretty obvious that the best athletes end up playing offense these days. That has not always been the case.

JMO but generally, the quality of athletes playing defense are not the same as those playing offense...starting back in HS and further, with the emphasis on offense, I wonder if the basic skills are being taught in HS. Kids arrive on campus not knowing good tacking technique...not knowing how to play the defensive game in general. I realize this is a generalization and there are some studs out there on defense but the pool of SEC quality DLs is pretty small it seems.

For example, the idea of moving T Reed to the defense was probably a good one....just took place three years too late.... since the decisions to move him to defense was made after every possible offensive position did not work out....and by the time the move was made, he had lost 3 years of time to learn the position...same with Frazier. What this signals tome is that if a guy is not good enough to play offense, they put him on defense but often waste several years trying to make a fit for him on offense before finally making the move.

And I wonder at AU with an offensive coach, whether D just does not get the talent....and the opposite situation at Florida with Muschamp...I mean, how could a school in a state with so much talent not have a QB or 3 or 4 good RBs?

[aucanucktiger 1,809]

Our defensive player body language after October was a scene out of 2012, very different from September. The honest answer is disappointing senior leadership (starting with suspensions), failure to coach-up and yes, unfulfilled player potential. Look,if we land Muschamp he'll fire them up and recruit well but don't look for vast improvements in fundamentals.

[Strychnine 1,804]

Our defensive player body language after October was a scene out of 2012, very different from September. The honest answer is disappointing senior leadership (starting with suspensions), failure to coach-up and yes, unfulfilled player potential. Look,if we land Muschamp he'll fire them up and recruit well but don't look for vast improvements in fundamentals.

That's mostly my own thoughts. When the players are frequently in position to make plays, and then missing tackles, I cannot blame that on the DC's scheme. That said, I also cannot envision a new scheme that can miraculously fix bad angles and missed tackles immediately.

The funny thing is that we do not even need an elite or great defense. A defense that is good enough to consistently make the opposing offense earn it or get off the field without surrendering points would suffice. We can generally score on anyone, but we cannot hold even a decent offense at bay long enough to consistently take and hold a lead.

[N2AUtigers 5]

It's obvious but good d line play is the key to good defense. And a safety leading a team in tackles is a sign that the dline play is poor. When the d line is consistently driven into the LBs laps that's one LB caught in the wash that you don't even have to block. And in passing defense you can have the best secondary in the league but if the QB consistently has all day to pass guys will get open. But with ours always being confused and just having guys like Cooper running free spells disaster every time. Auburn has had a few elite lineman over the last few years but it's been a long time since they were a good unit.

[RBCAubie 3]

Just my opinion, but our D has several problems. I don't think you can point to any one thing (coaching, players, scheme, etc).

1) We have had a top 10 recruiting class the last X years: And yet we can't get better corners than a converted RB & WR (I know it was already said, but completely agree!!). This is a problem either with our talent evaluation or the players that we are getting.

2) We have had a top 10 recruiting class the last X years: And we can't believe that we don't have better LB talent. I know McKenzie is a first 3 round draft choice and maybe the 4-2-5 was a bad scheme for him to showcase his talents, but he is no where the dominating player that I thought he was going to be. Yes he has a bunch of tackles, but how many for loss vs for gain. A dominant LB is one who makes you think about your blocking scheme so that he is not getting to many TFL.

3) We have had a top 10 recruiting class the last X years: And we can't find the right combination of DL to get penetration from rushing 4. We have really focused on this in our recruiting and lots of top talent, yet none are living up to the hype. I know Lawson was injured and we are all hopeful that he will come back with the vengeance, but what about '90 who?' and some of these others that were supposed to be the next coming. It is hard for me to believe that the lack of pressure by the DL is all on the kids though.

4) We have had a top 10 recruiting class the last X years: At some point with the previous three things stated you have to ask yourself where has the coaching been. Yes scheme has some to do with it. Being in the right place at the right time is a big part of being dominant. But who in the world that was watching the game Sat didn't know that in the second half that #9 was going to get the ball. Yet several times our safeties were out of position and CB were floundering. You can't be having communications issues during the 12 game of the year. If you do then your coaches have done something wrong. I know we have changed schemes and staff a lot on the D side of the ball the last 5 years, but as prev mentioned these coaches did well pre & post AU so why the drop at AU.

5) We have had a top 10 recruiting class the last X years: and it looks like we are enroute to another this year. So, bring on the new DC & coaches, bring on the new talent, and let's start getting back to the AU of old. The AU where Spikes was killing people. The time where our D was something to fear instead of something to get excited about for padding your stats. The future is bright and I hope that the next DC & coaches will take us to the next level on D. WDE!!!

Maybe, we're focusing too much on the number of stars and not enough on the heart of the athlete.

[McLoofus 35,182]

....... Kris Frost is having an all-SEC caliber season......

He had an all-SEC caliber game against Samford. When the big boys are on the field, he's more often than not invisible.

Example: VS

Samford, 8 tackles, 5 assists

UGA, 1-5

UAT, 4-1

Arky, 0-0

That's as many as I care to check, but I believe that's fairly representative of Frost's season.

If you would have checked back just a little further, you'd see 7, 11 and 6 solo tackles against Ole Miss, USC and MSU, respectively. Also, he didn't play against Arkansas, so I FTFY.

[Mikey 16,779]

....... Kris Frost is having an all-SEC caliber season......

He had an all-SEC caliber game against Samford. When the big boys are on the field, he's more often than not invisible.

Example: VS

Samford, 8 tackles, 5 assists

UGA, 1-5

UAT, 4-1

Arky 0-0

That's as many as I care to check, but I believe that's fairly representative of Frost's season.

If you would have checked back just a little further, you'd see 7, 11 and 6 solo tackles against Ole Miss, USC and MSU, respectively. Also, he didn't play against Arkansas, so I FTFY.

He did play against Arkansas, so I fixed it back for you. Argue with ITAT, it's their stats and player list I'm going by.

[cole256 17,084]

John Chavis sits in the press box. That's not the problem. Kirby Smart doesn't jump around like a madman. That's not the problem, either.

Kirby is jumping around out there

[kd4au 1,145]

Just my opinion, but our D has several problems. I don't think you can point to any one thing (coaching, players, scheme, etc).

1) We have had a top 10 recruiting class the last X years: And yet we can't get better corners than a converted RB & WR (I know it was already said, but completely agree!!). This is a problem either with our talent evaluation or the players that we are getting.

2) We have had a top 10 recruiting class the last X years: And we can't believe that we don't have better LB talent. I know McKenzie is a first 3 round draft choice and maybe the 4-2-5 was a bad scheme for him to showcase his talents, but he is no where the dominating player that I thought he was going to be. Yes he has a bunch of tackles, but how many for loss vs for gain. A dominant LB is one who makes you think about your blocking scheme so that he is not getting to many TFL.

3) We have had a top 10 recruiting class the last X years: And we can't find the right combination of DL to get penetration from rushing 4. We have really focused on this in our recruiting and lots of top talent, yet none are living up to the hype. I know Lawson was injured and we are all hopeful that he will come back with the vengeance, but what about '90 who?' and some of these others that were supposed to be the next coming. It is hard for me to believe that the lack of pressure by the DL is all on the kids though.

4) We have had a top 10 recruiting class the last X years: At some point with the previous three things stated you have to ask yourself where has the coaching been. Yes scheme has some to do with it. Being in the right place at the right time is a big part of being dominant. But who in the world that was watching the game Sat didn't know that in the second half that #9 was going to get the ball. Yet several times our safeties were out of position and CB were floundering. You can't be having communications issues during the 12 game of the year. If you do then your coaches have done something wrong. I know we have changed schemes and staff a lot on the D side of the ball the last 5 years, but as prev mentioned these coaches did well pre & post AU so why the drop at AU.

5) We have had a top 10 recruiting class the last X years: and it looks like we are enroute to another this year. So, bring on the new DC & coaches, bring on the new talent, and let's start getting back to the AU of old. The AU where Spikes was killing people. The time where our D was something to fear instead of something to get excited about for padding your stats. The future is bright and I hope that the next DC & coaches will take us to the next level on D. WDE!!!

Maybe, we're focusing too much on the number of stars and not enough on the heart of the athlete.

Bingo we have a winner.

[doc4aday 1,887]

I do not think it is as much a personnel issue as being suggested. It is coaching....nothing more, nothing less. The last quality DC we have had was Muschamp. Roof and Johnson are good DCs, but are not in the class as Muschamp, Rhoads, and Chizik. Gibbs was a solid DC as well.

If Muschamp returns, look for Auburn to quickly move into the top 25 defenses in the country. When this happens, our offense will go to a different level than it already is. We will soon be a dominate team that will rival & surpass that across state team.

I do not think it is as much a personnel issue as being suggested. It is coaching....nothing more, nothing less. The last quality DC we have had was Muschamp. Roof and Johnson are good DCs, but are not in the class as Muschamp, Rhoads, and Chizik. Gibbs was a solid DC as well.

If Muschamp returns, look for Auburn to quickly move into the top 25 defenses in the country. When this happens, our offense will go to a different level than it already is. We will soon be a dominate team that will rival & surpass that across state team.

[Fricking Ray 47]

Let me see if I can wrap my brain around doc's thinking. During games 1 through 5 we had a respectable defensive effort. Where was the bad coaching? After MSU we can't stop the sisters of the poor. Is all the blame on the coaches? I don't recall significant injuries etc.

[AUFAN78 3,952]

Having watched SEC football for more than 4 decades, I hate to point out the painful truth that the majority of the problem is simply lack of talent. State institutions like UAT, LSU, Georgia, and Florida, mostly, get their pick of in-state and regional talent. Every year Auburn gets 1-2 really good defensive players to commit and is runner-up for most of the ones they desperately need. It has largely been this way as long as I can remember, on both offense and defense. Some recruiting classes are better than others, but Auburn is a tough place to recruit.

Under Tuberville, the offense was boring and uninspired, except for a few good years it was mediocre at best. When Chizik & Malzahn were hired, there was a mandate to change the culture and recruit better offensive players. A huge emphasis was placed on improving the offense. This has been accomplished. Malzahn is one of the most forward-thinking offensive coaches in the game.

However, there has been a lack of success on defense recently because (1) the need was so great on offense that recruiting emphasis was shifted in that direction for a while (2) since Muschamp left the replacements have mostly been past-their-prime coaches who have not possessed the charisma to attract top talent (3) the depth has been so poor that when a player screws up there isn't a similar talent breathing down his neck threatening to take his job (4) maybe Auburn gets a defensive player into the first couple rounds of the NFL draft once every 2-3 years, not 4-5 annually like the cross-state rival, and this a detractor for potential recruits.

In nearly every case, it takes 2-3 years to develop a defensive recruit into a dominating SEC player. The current roster has a sprinkling of solid defensive talent, but there just isn't enough to turn the ship around in 1-2 seasons. There can be improvement, but it takes time and talent to build a dominating defense, and most head coaches don't have that kind of time to wait for results otherwise they get fired. I really don't envy the position in which Malzahn now finds himself.

This is his first crucial decision and possibly most critical hire during his Auburn tenure, not to-date, but for the entire time he will be at Auburn. Malzahn knows he needs fast improvement, and that is going to be very difficult with the talent on the roster that we have seen on the field. Maybe some of the younger players will develop, maybe they will not, no one can say for sure. So, Malzahn is going to have to bring in a DC with a skill set similar to Muschamp, although Muschamp himself may not be the best candidate, but it needs to be someone young enough to relate to the recruits, knowledgable enough to coach up the talent, and demanding enough to get the most out of the players he has. Anything short of this and a poor choice could very well lead to Malzahn's dismissal.

Past Auburn coaches have been too quick to settle on a name coach and disregard other factors. I think Malzahn is smarter than his predecessors in this regard and will attempt to hire the best talent available. Whether that talent is interested in coming to Auburn is another matter. The pay will be good, but it is going to be a tough situation for any coach, and maintaining a consistency in the SEC West with all the difficulties mention above will be a harsh challenge that only a handful of coaches will be willing to consider.

I think the best we can hope for is that Malzahn makes a good hire and there will be noticeable improvement toward achieving a dominating defense in 2-3 years. A one-year turnaround is highly unlikely without a serious infusion of talent.

Excellent post and precisely on point!

[aubaseball 2,701]

Sub nailed it. When you have trouble pulling talent in your own backyard, you know that it isnt an easy place to recruit.

[homersapien 11,637]

I do not think it is as much a personnel issue as being suggested. It is coaching....nothing more, nothing less. The last quality DC we have had was Muschamp. Roof and Johnson are good DCs, but are not in the class as Muschamp, Rhoads, and Chizik. Gibbs was a solid DC as well.

If Muschamp returns, look for Auburn to quickly move into the top 25 defenses in the country. When this happens, our offense will go to a different level than it already is. We will soon be a dominate team that will rival & surpass that across state team.

I do not think it is as much a personnel issue as being suggested. It is coaching....nothing more, nothing less. The last quality DC we have had was Muschamp. Roof and Johnson are good DCs, but are not in the class as Muschamp, Rhoads, and Chizik. Gibbs was a solid DC as well.

If Muschamp returns, look for Auburn to quickly move into the top 25 defenses in the country. When this happens, our offense will go to a different level than it already is. We will soon be a dominate team that will rival & surpass that across state team.

You are correct, sir! The idea we are missing out on most of the (4-5*) recruits "with heart" is irrational.

(And I was a CEJ supporter early and late.)

[war eagle6 0]

I do not think it is as much a personnel issue as being suggested. It is coaching....nothing more, nothing less. The last quality DC we have had was Muschamp. Roof and Johnson are good DCs, but are not in the class as Muschamp, Rhoads, and Chizik. Gibbs was a solid DC as well.

If Muschamp returns, look for Auburn to quickly move into the top 25 defenses in the country. When this happens, our offense will go to a different level than it already is. We will soon be a dominate team that will rival & surpass that across state team.

I do not think it is as much a personnel issue as being suggested. It is coaching....nothing more, nothing less. The last quality DC we have had was Muschamp. Roof and Johnson are good DCs, but are not in the class as Muschamp, Rhoads, and Chizik. Gibbs was a solid DC as well.

If Muschamp returns, look for Auburn to quickly move into the top 25 defenses in the country. When this happens, our offense will go to a different level than it already is. We will soon be a dominate team that will rival & surpass that across state team.

You are correct, sir! The idea we are missing out on most of the (4-5*) recruits "with heart" is irrational.

(And I was a CEJ supporter early and late.)

^^^ At least u were man enough to admit it, others won't

[aubaseball 2,701]

If its coaching, why do all the coaches still have jobs? In the last 5 years, name the players of the defensive side that were drafted into the nfl.

[bigbird 60,609]

If its coaching, why do all the coaches still have jobs? In the last 5 years, name the players of the defensive side that were drafted into the nfl.

But...but...I called it!

Very good point. How many DCs, that many thought were awful, have left and been very successful? Yeah, must be the coaching. :-\p

[80Tiger 904]

If its coaching, why do all the coaches still have jobs? In the last 5 years, name the players of the defensive side that were drafted into the nfl.

Well it is a short list. Ford, Lemoneir Fairley, Bates, Bynes, Davis, Groves. Not sure if these were all drafted or some free agents.

[war eagle6 0]

Good enough for me

[AU64 10,122]

If its coaching, why do all the coaches still have jobs? In the last 5 years, name the players of the defensive side that were drafted into the nfl.

But...but...I called it!

Very good point. How many DCs, that many thought were awful, have left and been very successful? Yeah, must be the coaching. :-\p

It is interesting that they were good at other schools before they got here...had impressive enough resume's to convince people at AU that they could do the job here....and then moved on to good jobs elsewhere (and did pretty well) after they were found lacking at AU.

Seems to me that there is more to this problem than just "it's bad coaching"....

Just wondering what Muschamp would/can do to get a different result.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Our defense is littered with talent that was more highly rated across the board than that of the superior defenses that preceded them.

And, yes, some of our DC alumni are having success elsewhere. But remind me which ones are currently having success against a similar level of competition?

[hutchids 227]

When was the last time we had a dominate de or lb? Is that really in the op? Have we already forgotten 1st round pick dee ford from just last year with the clutch sack on johnny f'n football and the clutch hit on Aaron Murray to save (in baseball terms) both of those games. There was also Lombardi award winner and 1st round pick Nick Fairley from 5 years ago. We arent crawling with clutch great lineman but really who has had more than 2 or 3 the last 5 years.

[aubaseball 2,701]

Thats the point. We have had two 1st rounders in five years. Where are the 2nd, 3rd and fourth rounders? LSU and Bama have had loads of 1st round picks in the last five years. I pick these two schools because that is who we compete against. In order for AU to win on a consistant basis, this is who we need to stack up against.

[bigbird 60,609]

I the lack of mid round picks are more telling than the first rounders. All teams have the bmoc but its the grinders that make a team special. We are not seeing the Zach Claytons, will herring's, or mike blancs.