Cato Institute: Syrian Refugees Don't Pose a Serious Security Threat

[japantiger 4,051]

If your neighbors house catches fire, do you help them put it out, bebuild, and move them back, or just tell them to move in with you for ever?

Why don't we help them live in their own damn country instead of bringing them all here? If all of the "good" Muslims are trying to leave, by letting them all come here, aren't we in essence just giving up on Syria? Why can't we actually LEAD and attack to real root cause of the problem? Smoke Daesh and let the "good" Syrians have their country back rather than just moving them here.

Your solution is not a short term one, but a long term one. And it's not as simple as you lay it out. It's why this is such a mess. Daesh is only one part of the problem. Even without them stealing the stage, there's a civil war in Syria going on between Asaad and those who wish to topple him. And the alliances there are a mishmash of people and viewpoints and different visions of what Syria should look like post-Asaad. And Daesh has infiltrated much of the rebel ranks so that you can't even easily pick out the "good" rebels who aren't Daesh. On top of that you have major regional and world powers with loyalties to different sides. Russia and Iran (through their support for Hezbollah) back Assad. Turkey, most of the Gulf States and Jordan back the rebels. The Kurds are their own side in all this and then you have Daesh thrown in the mix.

The best 5-minute explanation of this I've seen is here:

http://www.vox.com/2...-minute-history

My point is this: It's going to be years before Syria is sorted out. Perhaps a decade or more. Eventually, if it can get sorted out and Daesh taken out of the equation, and some sort of peace established, I think many if not most Syrian refugees will choose to move back. Given any option of their choosing, that is where they'd rather be living, but without constant danger and fear. But to just say "let's fix their country and let them stay" isn't thinking about what an tangled mess that situation is and how long it will take to "fix" it.

So because it is hard; let's just take the wrong approach. Again, you take an approach similar to the one taken with Kosovo. It takes a while; is not perfect; but deals with the situation regionally; not globally.

[japantiger 4,051]

The moderators here bend over backwards to allow people free discussion. That goes triple in the Politics forum. If you think the moderation here isn't done well, all I can say is that you have very little experience with message boards.

That said, back to the point of the thread. The bottom line is this: When the Cato Institute, a think tank with unquestioned conservative bonafides, is telling you to maybe take down the pearl-clutching over the Syrian refugees a notch or two, it’s an indication that you’ve lost all perspective.

I don't think either me or Old Newby were saying you didn't allow free discussion. I simply said IF it were my board mods couldn't engage in the discussion. The mods have their biases just like everyone else does. Nothing personal intended in this case.

Biases are fine as long as it doesn't cause them to hinder free discussion (within board parameters obviously). The fact that a moderator takes a side doesn't alter the ability to freely exchange ideas, disagree and so on.

The key words are "within board parameters." I think a mod should spend more time doing that than posting. The ugliness in this forum is classic. IMHO mods should really come down on the calling of names and slinging of insults.

Could care less who posts...the mods have a right to have their own misguided opinions just like everyone else...as long as they don't censor opinions they don't like or lock up threads because discussions are uncomfortable for some snowflakes on here who can't handle commons sense and critical thought, no problem.

[AUUSN 823]

Why don't we help them live in their own damn country instead of bringing them all here? If all of the "good" Muslims are trying to leave, by letting them all come here, aren't we in essence just giving up on Syria?

This looks like Detroit...point?

There's no country to send them back too.

[japantiger 4,051]

So you mean Damascus?

Or this one? Even from Aleppo....

Both 2015 pictures...

[AUUSN 823]

So you mean Damascus?

Or this one? Even from Aleppo....

Both 2015 pictures...

You think Allepo is safe? And Damascus is for regime bootlickers. Out of respect for your service, I'm just going to stop before I really start ranting.

[AUUSN 823]

Nasty refugees.../sarc off/

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Yep these refugees, and their descendants, ended up killing many Native Americans, taking their lands, and putting many of them on reservations where they STILL are today. Syrian refugees might do the same with our descendants. Who can say not?

[AUUSN 823]

Yep these refugees, and their descendants, ended up killing many Native Americans, taking their lands, and putting many of them on reservations where they STILL are today. Syrian refugees might do the same with our descendants. Who can say not?

I know, look at all those military age men in that picture.

[TitanTiger 20,514]

Yep these refugees, and their descendants, ended up killing many Native Americans, taking their lands, and putting many of them on reservations where they STILL are today. Syrian refugees might do the same with our descendants. Who can say not?

Good luck doing that with 10,000 people vs 315 million.

That is some DefCon 1 level paranoia.

[japantiger 4,051]

So you mean Damascus?

Or this one? Even from Aleppo....

Both 2015 pictures...

You think Allepo is safe? And Damascus is for regime bootlickers. Out of respect for your service, I'm just going to stop before I really start ranting.

USN...you tried to take one isolated picture and infer that the entire nation was rubble; it is not. These pictures show a fully functioning city; cities; with infrastructure in tact. Basically, your post was irrelevant to the topic of the best way to deal with this situation.

[homersapien 11,454]

So you mean Damascus?

Or this one? Even from Aleppo....

Both 2015 pictures...

You think Allepo is safe? And Damascus is for regime bootlickers. Out of respect for your service, I'm just going to stop before I really start ranting.

USN...you tried to take one isolated picture and infer that the entire nation was rubble; it is not. These pictures show a fully functioning city; cities; with infrastructure in tact. Basically, your post was irrelevant to the topic of the best way to deal with this situation.

Oh, I think there's enough rubble to accommodate 10k people. :-\

[AUUSN 823]

USN...you tried to take one isolated picture and infer that the entire nation was rubble; it is not. These pictures show a fully functioning city; cities; with infrastructure in tact. Basically, your post was irrelevant to the topic of the best way to deal with this situation.

http://www.aaas.org/aleppo_retrospective

[AUUSN 823]

IS intensifies attacks outside Aleppo

ALEPPO — The Islamic State (IS) has been launching broad attacks against opposition-controlled areas in the countryside of Aleppo since Aug. 5, when talk began of Turkey and the US-led coalition cooperating with opposition forces to establish a “safe zone” in northern Syria. This area sits north of Aleppo, stretching from the city of Marea to near Jarablus on the Syrian-Turkish border. It would be "safe" in being emptied of IS, Syrian regime forces and fighters affiliated with the Kurdish Democratic Union Party.

Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/09/syria-aleppo-isis-attacks-turkey-safe-zone.html#ixzz3shx6SUjp

[AUUSN 823]

Fierce clashes between pro-government and opposition forces continue in the vicinity of the Damascus and Aleppo airports. Land border checkpoints held by opposition forces should not be considered safe, as they are targeted by regime attacks and some armed groups have sought to fund themselves through kidnappings for ransom. Border areas are frequent targets of shelling and other attacks and are crowded because of internally-displaced refugees. Errant attacks will occasionally hit border towns just outside the borders as well. Road checkpoints have been controlled by armed terrorist and violent extremist groups and have been utilized to conduct kidnappings of individuals, including U.S. citizens.

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/alertswarnings/syria-travel-warning.html

[AUUSN 823]

This is your captain: We'll shortly be arriving at Syria's most dangerous city

We had been told we were going on a trip to the front line in Damascus. Instead, we were driven to an airfield and packed into an old Soviet-made Yakovlev YAK-40 aircraft. It wasn't until we were in the air that government officials on the flight finally offered up some information.

"We are going to Aleppo," one said with a smile.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/23/world/meast/syria-aleppo-pleitgen/

[AUUSN 823]

Aleppo No Longer A Safe Haven For Syrian-Born Armenians

Hundreds of Aleppans have been injured and dozens killed in the recent weeks of fighting in Syria's largest city, with government jets bombarding residential buildings and rebels waging a street-level war for control.

Tens of thousands of residents have evacuated the city in a desperate bid to escape the violence, including up to 3,000 Armenians, who have decamped for Lebanon and Armenia, leaving behind a rich history and a highly uncertain future.

http://www.rferl.mobi/a/aleppo-syria-armenians-exodus/24686750.html

[AUUSN 823]

So then Japantiger, I believe I've made my point. I'll wait while you prove to me that Allepo is safe enough to accomodate refugees.

[japantiger 4,051]

You appear to be missing the point. Properly organized and lead, there is plenty of infrastructure to support the populace. The issue is no one; not the US, not Europe, not the Turks, or Jordanians or Saudies, etc., etc., etc., certainly not the Russians or Assad are putting forces in place to deal with it. And we all know that none of the other names listed will deal with anything unless the US takes its role. So, naturally, you get flight out of the country.

A solution similar to what Germany and Bill Clinton employed in Kosovo needs to be employed to deal with this. An issue in a single town or half the country of Syria should not equate to a refugee crisis in America. Deal with issues in the region...it is ultimately the only solution that will work and unless we force that on the locals, they will make all their problems our problems. We have all the leverage in these situations...what we lack is leadership that knows how to play our hand.

So go on making excuses for the current paper tigers in the WH (that's White House); let's just blame it all on the Crusaders...but his administrations failure to lead does not constitute a crisis for me worthy of importing problems into to the US.

[AUUSN 823]

You appear to be missing the point. Properly organized and lead, there is plenty of infrastructure to support the populace. The issue is no one; not the US, not Europe, not the Turks, or Jordanians or Saudies, etc., etc., etc., certainly not the Russians or Assad are putting forces in place to deal with it. And we all know that none of the other names listed will deal with anything unless the US takes its role. So, naturally, you get flight out of the country.

A solution similar to what Germany and Bill Clinton employed in Kosovo needs to be employed to deal with this. An issue in a single town or half the country of Syria should not equate to a refugee crisis in America. Deal with issues in the region...it is ultimately the only solution that will work and unless we force that on the locals, they will make all their problems our problems. We have all the leverage in these situations...what we lack is leadership that knows how to play our hand.

So go on making excuses for the current paper tigers in the WH (that's White House); let's just blame it all on the Crusaders...but his administrations failure to lead does not constitute a crisis for me worthy of importing problems into to the US.

How can I appear to be missing the point? It's my point. Remember you jumped in on my picture and asked what was my point? I proved MY POINT that Allepo is not a safe place for refugees. You have not proved your point that it is. Nice rant though...

[AUUSN 823]

THIS THANKSGIVING, START A DEBATE ABOUT REFUGEES

Many refugees are military-aged males.

Actually, over half of current Syrian refugees to the United States are children. Only about two percent are males of “combat age.” The top priority is for those who are “survivors of violence and torture, those with severe medical conditions, and women and children.” And, to appropriate a statement by former Secretary of State Colin Powell, if a heavily vetted “military-age” Syrian male leading his family is trying to enter the United States as a refugee, so what?

http://warontherocks.com/2015/11/this-thanksgiving-start-a-debate-about-refugees/

[japantiger 4,051]

You appear to be missing the point. Properly organized and lead, there is plenty of infrastructure to support the populace. The issue is no one; not the US, not Europe, not the Turks, or Jordanians or Saudies, etc., etc., etc., certainly not the Russians or Assad are putting forces in place to deal with it. And we all know that none of the other names listed will deal with anything unless the US takes its role. So, naturally, you get flight out of the country.

A solution similar to what Germany and Bill Clinton employed in Kosovo needs to be employed to deal with this. An issue in a single town or half the country of Syria should not equate to a refugee crisis in America. Deal with issues in the region...it is ultimately the only solution that will work and unless we force that on the locals, they will make all their problems our problems. We have all the leverage in these situations...what we lack is leadership that knows how to play our hand.

So go on making excuses for the current paper tigers in the WH (that's White House); let's just blame it all on the Crusaders...but his administrations failure to lead does not constitute a crisis for me worthy of importing problems into to the US.

How can I appear to be missing the point? It's my point. Remember you jumped in on my picture and asked what was my point? I proved MY POINT that Allepo is not a safe place for refugees. You have not proved your point that it is. Nice rant though...

No, that was not your argument...you went for the general argument that because one place in Syria was rubble (you supplied on picture), then the entire nation was rubble and uninhabitable...and when that didn't work you tried to imply, well, Aleppo is uninhabitable based on a couple of descriptions of the conditions inside Aleppo after I supplied a picture from Aleppo with functioning infrastructure there. Go back and look at your post.

As for the attached article in the next post; it basically says we should take in the Syrian refugees "because we should". It provides a series of rationale, some facetious, some analogies that aren't and then attempts to tug at the heart...and even tries to make the Syrian refugees part of our Thanksgiving tradition. And my favorite, refusing to take in potential terrorist threats somehow plays into ISIS hands...wow...that's a beauty...refusing to take in terrorists is what the terrorists really want....curiouser and curiouser...

I see nothing in this article related to how doing this is supposed to be in US interests. I do see how forcing the issue to be dealt with in the region that created the problem is in US interests. This administration ignores every lesson of history in every foreign policy event and then blames history for the problems....USN, I cannot imagine serving in a military that finds the leadership of the current temporary occupant of the WH an acceptable leadership example worthy of emulation...

[AUUSN 823]

Uh yeah it was my argument. There currently is no country for refugees to return to. I provided proof to that fact. You have yet to refute my position. I'm still waiting, I would say, rather patiently while you rant on issues I havent broached.

[AUUSN 823]

You need more?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/inside-assads-syria/

[cooltigger21 0]

These people should be going to other countries in the ME. Nome of the 5 wealthiest countries there have taken in any of them. That's where we should be applying pressure on. They share the same language and culture.

[TitanTiger 20,514]

These people should be going to other countries in the ME. Nome of the 5 wealthiest countries there have taken in any of them. That's where we should be applying pressure on. They share the same language and culture.

They are going to those countries. Turkey has 2.2 million refugees and has assimilated hundreds of thousands permanently. Lebanon has over 1.1 million refugees and are assimilating tens of thousands. Same for Jordan (630,000 refugees), Egypt and Iraq (tens of thousands). Saudi Arabia and UAE have both taken in hundreds of thousands, but don't classify them as refugees under the UN definitions.

This meme that somehow the ME countries aren't doing their part is bogus.