Cato Institute: Syrian Refugees Don't Pose a Serious Security Threat

[Guest NC1406]

I have no problem admitting I am fearful. IMHO we all should be.

My only fear is what our leaders will ask my boys that are serving this country to do to "protect" us.

[homersapien 11,455]

Burying your head in the sand and believing it can't happen is nonsense. When bad guys like this say they will do this I tend to believe that. I don't trust our government to get this right. and I damn sure don't trust the incompetent and corrupt boobs at the UN.

Proud Tiger is digging a hole that you and the other chicken little's can get in. Please make sure there's no internet access...

I would not call people opposed to accepting more refugees "chicken". Many oppose the acceptance for reasons other than terrorism. When you look at the maps of states that generally oppose the process and the states that support, it shows some interesting info. Most of the supporting states have the larger cities that would be the most obvious targets for terrorism. Those states opposed aren't prime targets except for their military bases. I acknowledge that this also breaks down along political lines.

A terrorist would struggle to find my area unless they went after the nuclear plant on the south end of the lake. My only real rear is that attacks will add more deployments for our military, but honestly that is coming whether the attacks are in the US or not.

I didnt write chicken. I wrote chicken little; there's a difference.

Noted.......I missed that part. While I responded to your comment it was more directed to general idea that people oppose out of fear. That seems to be a running theme in the discussion.

It's either fear or politics, sometimes I have a hard time figuring out which one. I tell you I know the threat. Terrorism will always be with us but I'm not changing my lifestyle.

Boom!

Boom?

Of course. Can't get much more succinct than that. You've got people reacting with irrational fear and you've got politicians trying to capitalize on it. Perfect recipe for disaster.

[JoeBags7277 734]

My objection is based on the fact that the federal government has been so inept and bungled so many things over the years. I don't have any faith that all of a sudden they'll get it right.

Except for anything that comes out of the DoD budget. I'm sure they'd be spot on at toppling Assad, and knowing which rebel group to prop up as his replacement, amirite?

Just don't go bringing in any of them stinkin' refugees trying to avoid rape, murder, or some other atrocity at the hands of those same "moderate rebels."

[japantiger 4,051]

Other than the vote Jeffy,

Before we go any further....who the hell is Jeffy?

they get full access to every welfare program in America, schools, you name it...it;s better than being a citizen...all the bennies, none of the responsibility. The Turks can absorb another 10k...the Syrian GDP per capita was $2k prior to the civil war...a country with a 19k per capita GDP is rich beyond the imagination of practically any Syrian. Just FYI also, China GDP per capita is under $7k...do you think they could afford to take some in? You really don't have much sense of proportion...have you been to any of the countries referenced here?

"You really don't have much sense of proportion", says the guy that claimed Turkey was bigger than Texas with a population the size of Delaware.

Turkey had already absorbed several hundred thousand into their system while still maintaining refugee camps for those they can't keep permanently. And they weren't the ones who went and created this power vacuum that allowed Daesh to fill the void. We were. It's a bit disingenuous to tell a country that is already doing way more than its part to take the 10,000 we are scheduled to take too.

But yeah, I'm the one that lacks proportion.

As for Christianity influencing policy; that's pretty irrelevant isn't it...talk about a strawman. We are a secular republic. Unless of course you are advocating we now use Christian standards to influence all our other policies...is that what you are saying? How about abortion? prayer in school? teaching it in the classroom? If you are a Christian, then how much of your own tithes or charity is going to the Syrian immigrants? Seriously, you're just throwing crap out now that makes no sense.

If you aren't a Christian, feel free to ignore it. I think there are practical and moral reasons for us to do this.

Also, you are the last person on the planet that gets to credibly accuse anyone of "throwing out crap." If crap were outlawed, you'd be a mute.

As has now been confirmed by the French, the head honcho of the Paris attacks came in with the refugees...that is the issue here. There are over 1m on the current watch list...do you seriously think DHS can watch that many?

They, along with at least 3 other branches of our intelligence apparatus are screening about 10,000, not 1 million.

and you want to add to it in the name of what? Showing how tolerant you are? Showing your not islamaphobic? There are plenty of others that can take these folks in much closer to their home. We need to let the rest of the world; particularly the ME part of the world, step up and sort out it's own. Take the money you want to piss away on 10k Syrians and actually give our Vets the care they deserve... we have more pressing issues...without adding to security concerns.

The Middle East is doing i's part. Europe is doing its part. It is time we did ours.

It doesn't add security concerns. Unless you're proposing that we end ALL immigration and isolate ourselves completely, your notions do no make us safer. There are a half dozen other ways to slip someone into this country that are far easier, far quicker with far less scrutiny and oversight than this. Freaking out about the refugees is like being scared a burglar might break into your home so in response you barricade your chimney.

Uummm, DE is Deutchland...Germany. You know, 80m people, central Europe, half the size of TX. Since the discussion was foreign affairs, I assumed you'd be aware of common acronyms for nations... I'll just ignore the other points you made.

The current terror watch list in the US has over 1m names on it. Do you seriously think we can monitor 1/100th of the people on the list? What makes you think we can successfully do adequate background checks on 10,000 new immigrants from a part of the world where most will have no documentation? Let me answer it for you...common sense says we can't. So now we will have 10,000 more suspects we can't track, monitor or understand. Might I remind you that the 19 9-11 hijackers were well known...as well as those just involved in the Paris attacks. Flooding the zone with more is abject stupidity.

And no, "freaking out about refugees is not like blocking your chimney"...taking reasonable precautions with regard to a large influx of people from a region torn by sectarian violence the breeding ground for an organization that is an unspeakable evil is like "locking your door at night" or like "locking your car"...I would assume you do that...nice strawman though Luke Skywalker...

And seriously, the ME hasn't done jack s***. They've created the damn problem and exported it. In what world is that doing their part? Even poor little Jordan could take in 10,000 more refugees...they actually need laborers...it would be a win-win for them...Dubai is run based on foreign labor doing work for the Royal Family...they need laborers...again, win-win. I wonder why they aren't taking them in? Turkey, can do a lot more. They've failed to do many of the things that would have prevented the refugree crisis in the first place. You seriously have no idea what you're talking about.

[TitanTiger 20,518]

Uummm, DE is Deutchland...Germany. You know, 80m people, central Europe, half the size of TX. Since the discussion was foreign affairs, I assumed you'd be aware of common acronyms for nations...

Yeah, because we so commonly use DE to refer to Germany around here, especially following the abbreviation of a US state.

Germany has over twice the per capita GDP. It's one of the world's strongest economies. And it still doesn't change the fact that Turkey is more that doing it's part already.

I'll just ignore the other points you made.

As is typical when your argument gets crushed.

The current terror watch list in the US has over 1m names on it. Do you seriously think we can monitor 1/100th of the people on the list?

Yes. We do it every year in fact. We already take in over 70,000 refugees a year and manage to do it. I think we can successfully screen an extra 10k.

What makes you think we can successfully do adequate background checks on 10,000 new immigrants from a part of the world where most will have no documentation? Let me answer it for you...common sense says we can't. So now we will have 10,000 more suspects we can't track, monitor or understand. Might I remind you that the 19 9-11 hijackers were well known...as well as those just involved in the Paris attacks. Flooding the zone with more is abject stupidity.

An extra 10k is not "flooding" anything. And we get to keep them over there until we're satisfied with the checks.

And no, "freaking out about refugees is not like blocking your chimney"...taking reasonable precautions with regard to a large influx of people from a region torn by sectarian violence the breeding ground for an organization that is an unspeakable evil is like "locking your door at night" or like "locking your car"...I would assume you do that...nice strawman though Luke Skywalker...

Yes, it's exactly like that. You are freaking out over the least likely vector for problems while a half dozen easier and far more likely ones still exist. And the thing is, you haven't done anything to improve our security posture.

And seriously, the ME hasn't done jack s***. They've created the damn problem and exported it. In what world is that doing their part?

Complete ignorance of history.

Even poor little Jordan could take in 10,000 more refugees...they actually need laborers...it would be a win-win for them

Jordan has already taken in 633,000. They've more than done their part. We can do more than a paltry 2200.

...Dubai is run based on foreign labor doing work for the Royal Family...they need laborers...again, win-win. I wonder why they aren't taking them in?

UAE has taken in over 100,000 already. Try again.

Turkey, can do a lot more. They've failed to do many of the things that would have prevented the refugree crisis in the first place. You seriously have no idea what you're talking about.

Turkey has done more than anyone. They've absorbed hundreds of thousands permanently and have taken in 2.2 million refugees on top of that.

A basic grasp of pertinent facts is required to tell anyone they don't know what they are talking about. You're about a mile under that bar.

[japantiger 4,051]

It doesn't matter how many Jordan or Turkey or the UAE or any of the other ME nations have taken in Titan...the point is, both these nations failed to act when they could have; especially Turkey and Saudi; and created the problem...that they should deal with. Not our problem.

And thanks for making my point...if Jordan has taken in 633k; then 643k is really the same isn't it. So not sure what possible rationale there is for shipping them 8k miles to the US. This should be dealt with at the source. Our immigration policies should be aimed at immigrants that provide something for us and in our interests.

Titan, I have been in the Jordanian refugee camps...I am well aware of how many are there and the living conditions. I've seen this before. We should have used the same strategy here as Kosovo...but, your boy decided to ignore history (yet again) throw the region away...making another mistake with the fallout of a lack of policy is equally bad policy.

oh, as to DE, apparently you don't use DE...but anyone who's actually worked outside the US (we) does.

[TitanTiger 20,518]

It doesn't matter how many Jordan or Turkey or the UAE or any of the other ME nations have taken in Titan...the point is, both these nations failed to act when they could have; especially Turkey and Saudi; and created the problem...that they should deal with. Not our problem.

They did not create the problem. They didn't go in and topple Saddam without any real plan or understanding of what to do after. We did. It is our problem. There isn't even a way to measure the degree of utter denial you're in.

And thanks for making my point...if Jordan has taken in 633k; then 643k is really the same isn't it. So not sure what possible rationale there is for shipping them 8k miles to the US. This should be dealt with at the source. Our immigration policies should be aimed at immigrants that provide something for us and in our interests.

I didn't make your point. They are already busting at the seams. It is ridiculous to think they should just add more when they've gone above and beyond and we've done little to nothing.

Titan, I have been in the Jordanian refugee camps...I am well aware of how many are there and the living conditions. I've seen this before. We should have used the same strategy here as Kosovo...but, your boy decided to ignore history (yet again) throw the region away...making another mistake with the fallout of a lack of policy is equally bad policy.

Who is my boy? Be careful. This is a test of how obliviously ignorant you are.

oh, as to DE, apparently you don't use DE...but anyone who's actually worked outside the US (we) does.

In the context of your sentence, and on this forum, no one uses DE.

[japantiger 4,051]

OK, here we go again. First off, the trivial; my statement was this...

"I would urge you to get a map and look at Turkey. It's 10% bigger than TX with a smaller population than DE. I'd say they have plenty of space and room. "...so, Turkey is 10% bigger than TX with a population smaller than DE (i.e., Germany)...so just to be clear....DE has 84m people...Turkey 77m...so unless you are just being obtuse; which it appears you are; the statement is pretty damn accurate. Just to avoid confusing you in the futures, I'll spell out all foreign countries. Watching the Olympics must be hell for you trying to figure out which countries are competing.

As for who created the problem we are dealing with now in the ME, I see you are like the good Obama loyalists who don't believe his job is to lead the nation thru whatever he inherited. We're blaming Bush for this again...jeez...how mature? Let me see; Obama ran for President and has been president since 2008. he said he had the answer for the ME...well, he implemented his answer and look what we've gotten. If he didn't really want to be president he should have said; "I don't really wan't to be president...I only want to be president of the easy things like giving people s***. If things get hard; I'm gonna take a powder, piss and moan and blame everyone else for 8 years; thus avoiding any real responsibility and accountability". I don't really remember that declaration from him or anything on the ballot to that effect.

So, as President, as a leader, any leader; we don't just get to be the leader or the easy stuff. If you want to be a leader; sometimes, many times, it means you get the s*** end of the stick and only get the luxury of doing the hard stuff. Imagine Harry Truman blaming FDR for WW2 and saying I don't really want to fight this war..."it was FDRs fault...I want unconditional surrender of course, but I don't really want to make any of the hard decisions to bring it about. I'd rather go to Camp David instead of Potsdam...maybe I can get Ike to golf with me instead". I am constantly shocked by the attitude of people on this forum who think leadership is all rainbows and unicorns as opposed to the hard thankless work that it is most of the time. You want to be a leader; a real leader; buckle up. Anyone who exhibeted the leadership traits of his Worship could not be a leader in my worlds...or any other leadership sphere I've been associated with.

Every ME policy he has implemented has been a disaster....his Iraq policy, his Syria policy, his Lybia policy, his Egypt policy. HIS policies. The only thing he's done that is looking to bare fruit is his reversal of his Afghan policy where he decided to leave troops there...I hope and pray that he does enough. If it is, I will sing his praises.

Again, the Turks and others in the ME had plenty of time to act to intervene in both Syria and Iraq....before Obama's red line turned into a pink disappearing line and before we pulled everyone out of Iraq. All these nations knew what was going to happen...and the likely blowback on them....only Obama seemed to be clueless on the likelihood to massive instability. These nations will not learn their lesson unless we force them to deal with the consequences of their actions...they need to learn to deal with s*** at home....rather than depending on us to take in their mistakes. I have spent extensive time in both the nations referenced... I've driven the length of Jordan...Irbid in the north, Gerasa, Aman, Dead Sea and to Aqaba...eaten in their homes, Palestinian and Arab,...I have been to the camps in Jordan. I've been involved in both nations for nearly 20 years. I am not making these statements from a place of no understanding. And trust me; they have plenty of space and the resources to deal with it.

But, you go on taking up for his worships mistakes...and letting him be the effete feckless leader he is (I shudder to even use the word as regards him) who blames everyone and goes golfing or vacationing when times get tough. I think I'll start another thread on leadership and just see what folks on here think are the traits of good leaders...

[Guest NC1406]

OK, here we go again. First off, the trivial; my statement was this...

"I would urge you to get a map and look at Turkey. It's 10% bigger than TX with a smaller population than DE. I'd say they have plenty of space and room. "...so, Turkey is 10% bigger than TX with a population smaller than DE (i.e., Germany)...so just to be clear....DE has 84m people...Turkey 77m...so unless you are just being obtuse; which it appears you are; the statement is pretty damn accurate. Just to avoid confusing you in the futures, I'll spell out all foreign countries. Watching the Olympics must be hell for you trying to figure out which countries are competing.

As for who created the problem we are dealing with now in the ME, I see you are like the good Obama loyalists who don't believe his job is to lead the nation thru whatever he inherited. We're blaming Bush for this again...jeez...how mature? Let me see; Obama ran for President and has been president since 2008. he said he had the answer for the ME...well, he implemented his answer and look what we've gotten. If he didn't really want to be president he should have said; "I don't really wan't to be president...I only want to be president of the easy things like giving people s***. If things get hard; I'm gonna take a powder, piss and moan and blame everyone else for 8 years; thus avoiding any real responsibility and accountability". I don't really remember that declaration from him or anything on the ballot to that effect.

So, as President, as a leader, any leader; we don't just get to be the leader or the easy stuff. If you want to be a leader; sometimes, many times, it means you get the s*** end of the stick and only get the luxury of doing the hard stuff. Imagine Harry Truman blaming FDR for WW2 and saying I don't really want to fight this war..."it was FDRs fault...I want unconditional surrender of course, but I don't really want to make any of the hard decisions to bring it about. I'd rather go to Camp David instead of Potsdam...maybe I can get Ike to golf with me instead". I am constantly shocked by the attitude of people on this forum who think leadership is all rainbows and unicorns as opposed to the hard thankless work that it is most of the time. You want to be a leader; a real leader; buckle up. Anyone who exhibeted the leadership traits of his Worship could not be a leader in my worlds...or any other leadership sphere I've been associated with.

Every ME policy he has implemented has been a disaster....his Iraq policy, his Syria policy, his Lybia policy, his Egypt policy. HIS policies. The only thing he's done that is looking to bare fruit is his reversal of his Afghan policy where he decided to leave troops there...I hope and pray that he does enough. If it is, I will sing his praises.

Again, the Turks and others in the ME had plenty of time to act to intervene in both Syria and Iraq....before Obama's red line turned into a pink disappearing line and before we pulled everyone out of Iraq. All these nations knew what was going to happen...and the likely blowback on them....only Obama seemed to be clueless on the likelihood to massive instability. These nations will not learn their lesson unless we force them to deal with the consequences of their actions...they need to learn to deal with s*** at home....rather than depending on us to take in their mistakes. I have spent extensive time in both the nations referenced... I've driven the length of Jordan...Irbid in the north, Gerasa, Aman, Dead Sea and to Aqaba...eaten in their homes, Palestinian and Arab,...I have been to the camps in Jordan. I've been involved in both nations for nearly 20 years. I am not making these statements from a place of no understanding. And trust me; they have plenty of space and the resources to deal with it.

But, you go on taking up for his worships mistakes...and letting him be the effete feckless leader he is (I shudder to even use the word as regards him) who blames everyone and goes golfing or vacationing when times get tough. I think I'll start another thread on leadership and just see what folks on here think are the traits of good leaders...

You are wrong on one point. You gave our president the benefit of the doubt on Afghanistan. You either go all in or stay the hell out. We did neither. You don't play or you go in to win. I despise this nation building bs we have adopted.

[TitanTiger 20,518]

OK, here we go again. First off, the trivial; my statement was this...

"I would urge you to get a map and look at Turkey. It's 10% bigger than TX with a smaller population than DE. I'd say they have plenty of space and room. "...so, Turkey is 10% bigger than TX with a population smaller than DE (i.e., Germany)...so just to be clear....DE has 84m people...Turkey 77m...so unless you are just being obtuse; which it appears you are; the statement is pretty damn accurate. Just to avoid confusing you in the futures, I'll spell out all foreign countries. Watching the Olympics must be hell for you trying to figure out which countries are competing.

As for who created the problem we are dealing with now in the ME, I see you are like the good Obama loyalists who don't believe his job is to lead the nation thru whatever he inherited. We're blaming Bush for this again...jeez...how mature? Let me see; Obama ran for President and has been president since 2008. he said he had the answer for the ME...well, he implemented his answer and look what we've gotten. If he didn't really want to be president he should have said; "I don't really wan't to be president...I only want to be president of the easy things like giving people s***. If things get hard; I'm gonna take a powder, piss and moan and blame everyone else for 8 years; thus avoiding any real responsibility and accountability". I don't really remember that declaration from him or anything on the ballot to that effect.

So, as President, as a leader, any leader; we don't just get to be the leader or the easy stuff. If you want to be a leader; sometimes, many times, it means you get the s*** end of the stick and only get the luxury of doing the hard stuff. Imagine Harry Truman blaming FDR for WW2 and saying I don't really want to fight this war..."it was FDRs fault...I want unconditional surrender of course, but I don't really want to make any of the hard decisions to bring it about. I'd rather go to Camp David instead of Potsdam...maybe I can get Ike to golf with me instead". I am constantly shocked by the attitude of people on this forum who think leadership is all rainbows and unicorns as opposed to the hard thankless work that it is most of the time. You want to be a leader; a real leader; buckle up. Anyone who exhibeted the leadership traits of his Worship could not be a leader in my worlds...or any other leadership sphere I've been associated with.

Every ME policy he has implemented has been a disaster....his Iraq policy, his Syria policy, his Lybia policy, his Egypt policy. HIS policies. The only thing he's done that is looking to bare fruit is his reversal of his Afghan policy where he decided to leave troops there...I hope and pray that he does enough. If it is, I will sing his praises.

Again, the Turks and others in the ME had plenty of time to act to intervene in both Syria and Iraq....before Obama's red line turned into a pink disappearing line and before we pulled everyone out of Iraq. All these nations knew what was going to happen...and the likely blowback on them....only Obama seemed to be clueless on the likelihood to massive instability. These nations will not learn their lesson unless we force them to deal with the consequences of their actions...they need to learn to deal with s*** at home....rather than depending on us to take in their mistakes. I have spent extensive time in both the nations referenced... I've driven the length of Jordan...Irbid in the north, Gerasa, Aman, Dead Sea and to Aqaba...eaten in their homes, Palestinian and Arab,...I have been to the camps in Jordan. I've been involved in both nations for nearly 20 years. I am not making these statements from a place of no understanding. And trust me; they have plenty of space and the resources to deal with it.

But, you go on taking up for his worships mistakes...and letting him be the effete feckless leader he is (I shudder to even use the word as regards him) who blames everyone and goes golfing or vacationing when times get tough. I think I'll start another thread on leadership and just see what folks on here think are the traits of good leaders...

You are wrong on one point. You gave our president the benefit of the doubt on Afghanistan. You either go all in or stay the hell out. We did neither. You don't play or you go in to win. I despise this nation building bs we have adopted.

He's wrong on a hell of a lot more than that.

[TitanTiger 20,518]

OK, here we go again. First off, the trivial; my statement was this...

"I would urge you to get a map and look at Turkey. It's 10% bigger than TX with a smaller population than DE. I'd say they have plenty of space and room. "...so, Turkey is 10% bigger than TX with a population smaller than DE (i.e., Germany)...so just to be clear....DE has 84m people...Turkey 77m...so unless you are just being obtuse; which it appears you are; the statement is pretty damn accurate. Just to avoid confusing you in the futures, I'll spell out all foreign countries. Watching the Olympics must be hell for you trying to figure out which countries are competing.

No, in the Olympics it's quite clear that we are speaking of countries. I don't recall anyone standing on the podium winning a medal for the great state of Alabama while the St. Andrews cross is raised and "Sweet Home Alabama" plays in the stadium.

That said, this statistic, even with your choice of abbreviations explained, doesn't make your argument for you. It's not just a matter of space.

As for who created the problem we are dealing with now in the ME, I see you are like the good Obama loyalists who don't believe his job is to lead the nation thru whatever he inherited. We're blaming Bush for this again...jeez...how mature? Let me see; Obama ran for President and has been president since 2008. he said he had the answer for the ME...well, he implemented his answer and look what we've gotten. If he didn't really want to be president he should have said; "I don't really wan't to be president...I only want to be president of the easy things like giving people s***. If things get hard; I'm gonna take a powder, piss and moan and blame everyone else for 8 years; thus avoiding any real responsibility and accountability". I don't really remember that declaration from him or anything on the ballot to that effect.

I'm not blaming Bush. I'm blaming the United States. It matters not who was president at the time to me. We broke things over there. Our actions created the power vacuum for this current situation to exist. But if we're going to get down to brass tacks, it wasn't this president who invaded without a workable after war plan. And it wasn't this president who signed an agreement with the new Iraqi government with a hard deadline for pulling our troops out by a certain date. Argue that Obama should have pushed harder to get the agreement amended, but we couldn't just unilaterally decide to occupy their country if they want us out. And they did. It's their country. And frankly, our after war actions had done nothing to engender confidence in our ability to make things better.

But as I said, this isn't about who was in the Oval Office, it's about our nation doing some small part to live up to our responsibilities over there for a situation we largely made possible. 10,000 well-vetted refugees just scratches the surface of that.

So, as President, as a leader, any leader; we don't just get to be the leader or the easy stuff. If you want to be a leader; sometimes, many times, it means you get the s*** end of the stick and only get the luxury of doing the hard stuff. Imagine Harry Truman blaming FDR for WW2 and saying I don't really want to fight this war..."it was FDRs fault...I want unconditional surrender of course, but I don't really want to make any of the hard decisions to bring it about. I'd rather go to Camp David instead of Potsdam...maybe I can get Ike to golf with me instead". I am constantly shocked by the attitude of people on this forum who think leadership is all rainbows and unicorns as opposed to the hard thankless work that it is most of the time. You want to be a leader; a real leader; buckle up. Anyone who exhibeted the leadership traits of his Worship could not be a leader in my worlds...or any other leadership sphere I've been associated with.

I hope you win this argument with the voices in your head. Because no one here is involved in it.

Again, the Turks and others in the ME had plenty of time to act to intervene in both Syria and Iraq....before Obama's red line turned into a pink disappearing line and before we pulled everyone out of Iraq. All these nations knew what was going to happen...and the likely blowback on them....only Obama seemed to be clueless on the likelihood to massive instability. These nations will not learn their lesson unless we force them to deal with the consequences of their actions...they need to learn to deal with s*** at home....rather than depending on us to take in their mistakes. I have spent extensive time in both the nations referenced... I've driven the length of Jordan...Irbid in the north, Gerasa, Aman, Dead Sea and to Aqaba...eaten in their homes, Palestinian and Arab,...I have been to the camps in Jordan. I've been involved in both nations for nearly 20 years. I am not making these statements from a place of no understanding. And trust me; they have plenty of space and the resources to deal with it.

Then you should be able to understand that even if every argument you make is correct about responsibility, they are more than living up to it. When Turkey is taking in 2.2 refugees and has assimilated hundreds of thousands permanently into their country...when Lebanon has taken in over 1.1 million, Jordan over 633,000...it rings rather hollow for you to be sitting here wringing your hands over a nation multiple times larger in land mass and economic resources to take in a paltry 10,000 over the next year. They are doing their part. It is time for us to do ours.

But, you go on taking up for his worships mistakes...and letting him be the effete feckless leader he is (I shudder to even use the word as regards him) who blames everyone and goes golfing or vacationing when times get tough. I think I'll start another thread on leadership and just see what folks on here think are the traits of good leaders...

Yep, you went full ignoramus.

[OldNewby 27]

I usually 'ignore' contrarians, but 'moderators' cannot be ignored on this site. That is too bad.

[TitanTiger 20,518]

I usually 'ignore' contrarians, but 'moderators' cannot be ignored on this site. That is too bad.

Yeah, heaven forbid an opinion contrary to one's chosen narrative slip through.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

I usually 'ignore' contrarians, but 'moderators' cannot be ignored on this site. That is too bad.

I agree. If it were my board the mods would not be allowed to post except as necessary to enforce the rules But alas this board is a dictatorship like it or not, take it or leave it. Fortunately it's free.

[TitanTiger 20,518]

The moderators here bend over backwards to allow people free discussion. That goes triple in the Politics forum. If you think the moderation here isn't done well, all I can say is that you have very little experience with message boards.

That said, back to the point of the thread. The bottom line is this: When the Cato Institute, a think tank with unquestioned conservative bonafides, is telling you to maybe take down the pearl-clutching over the Syrian refugees a notch or two, it’s an indication that you’ve lost all perspective.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

The moderators here bend over backwards to allow people free discussion. That goes triple in the Politics forum. If you think the moderation here isn't done well, all I can say is that you have very little experience with message boards.

That said, back to the point of the thread. The bottom line is this: When the Cato Institute, a think tank with unquestioned conservative bonafides, is telling you to maybe take down the pearl-clutching over the Syrian refugees a notch or two, it’s an indication that you’ve lost all perspective.

I don't think either me or Old Newby were saying you didn't allow free discussion. I simply said IF it were my board mods couldn't engage in the discussion. The mods have their biases just like everyone else does. Nothing personal intended in this case.

[TitanTiger 20,518]

The moderators here bend over backwards to allow people free discussion. That goes triple in the Politics forum. If you think the moderation here isn't done well, all I can say is that you have very little experience with message boards.

That said, back to the point of the thread. The bottom line is this: When the Cato Institute, a think tank with unquestioned conservative bonafides, is telling you to maybe take down the pearl-clutching over the Syrian refugees a notch or two, it’s an indication that you’ve lost all perspective.

I don't think either me or Old Newby were saying you didn't allow free discussion. I simply said IF it were my board mods couldn't engage in the discussion. The mods have their biases just like everyone else does. Nothing personal intended in this case.

Biases are fine as long as it doesn't cause them to hinder free discussion (within board parameters obviously). The fact that a moderator takes a side doesn't alter the ability to freely exchange ideas, disagree and so on.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

The moderators here bend over backwards to allow people free discussion. That goes triple in the Politics forum. If you think the moderation here isn't done well, all I can say is that you have very little experience with message boards.

That said, back to the point of the thread. The bottom line is this: When the Cato Institute, a think tank with unquestioned conservative bonafides, is telling you to maybe take down the pearl-clutching over the Syrian refugees a notch or two, it’s an indication that you’ve lost all perspective.

I don't think either me or Old Newby were saying you didn't allow free discussion. I simply said IF it were my board mods couldn't engage in the discussion. The mods have their biases just like everyone else does. Nothing personal intended in this case.

Biases are fine as long as it doesn't cause them to hinder free discussion (within board parameters obviously). The fact that a moderator takes a side doesn't alter the ability to freely exchange ideas, disagree and so on.

The key words are "within board parameters." I think a mod should spend more time doing that than posting. The ugliness in this forum is classic. IMHO mods should really come down on the calling of names and slinging of insults.

[Guest NC1406]

The moderators here bend over backwards to allow people free discussion. That goes triple in the Politics forum. If you think the moderation here isn't done well, all I can say is that you have very little experience with message boards.

That said, back to the point of the thread. The bottom line is this: When the Cato Institute, a think tank with unquestioned conservative bonafides, is telling you to maybe take down the pearl-clutching over the Syrian refugees a notch or two, it’s an indication that you’ve lost all perspective.

As stated on the first page of this thread.....the Cato Institute is a libertarian leaning think tank. They are not identified as conservative. Especially a neo conservative.

[GoAU 1,603]

If your neighbors house catches fire, do you help them put it out, bebuild, and move them back, or just tell them to move in with you for ever?

Why don't we help them live in their own damn country instead of bringing them all here? If all of the "good" Muslims are trying to leave, by letting them all come here, aren't we in essence just giving up on Syria? Why can't we actually LEAD and attack to real root cause of the problem? Smoke Daesh and let the "good" Syrians have their country back rather than just moving them here.

[DKW 86 7,447]

If your neighbors house catches fire, do you help them put it out, bebuild, and move them back, or just tell them to move in with you for ever?

Why don't we help them live in their own damn country instead of bringing them all here? If all of the "good" Muslims are trying to leave, by letting them all come here, aren't we in essence just giving up on Syria? Why can't we actually LEAD and attack to real root cause of the problem? Smoke Daesh and let the "good" Syrians have their country back rather than just moving them here.

1) Try selling "Boots on the Ground" to the war weary US public. You will absolutely fail.

2) At this moment, the International Community, the UN etc, have failed magnificently. They have failed to take action such that there really isnt much of Syria left. It is held by three different, all warring parties. The war has gone on 2-3+ years now in some areas.

3) The other failures in International Leadership (Red Line, etc) have caused this.

[AUUSN 823]

[AUUSN 823]

Why don't we help them live in their own damn country instead of bringing them all here? If all of the "good" Muslims are trying to leave, by letting them all come here, aren't we in essence just giving up on Syria?

[TitanTiger 20,518]

If your neighbors house catches fire, do you help them put it out, bebuild, and move them back, or just tell them to move in with you for ever?

Why don't we help them live in their own damn country instead of bringing them all here? If all of the "good" Muslims are trying to leave, by letting them all come here, aren't we in essence just giving up on Syria? Why can't we actually LEAD and attack to real root cause of the problem? Smoke Daesh and let the "good" Syrians have their country back rather than just moving them here.

Your solution is not a short term one, but a long term one. And it's not as simple as you lay it out. It's why this is such a mess. Daesh is only one part of the problem. Even without them stealing the stage, there's a civil war in Syria going on between Asaad and those who wish to topple him. And the alliances there are a mishmash of people and viewpoints and different visions of what Syria should look like post-Asaad. And Daesh has infiltrated much of the rebel ranks so that you can't even easily pick out the "good" rebels who aren't Daesh. On top of that you have major regional and world powers with loyalties to different sides. Russia and Iran (through their support for Hezbollah) back Assad. Turkey, most of the Gulf States and Jordan back the rebels. The Kurds are their own side in all this and then you have Daesh thrown in the mix.

The best 5-minute explanation of this I've seen is here:

http://www.vox.com/2015/10/14/9525469/syrias-war-a-5-minute-history

My point is this: It's going to be years before Syria is sorted out. Perhaps a decade or more. Eventually, if it can get sorted out and Daesh taken out of the equation, and some sort of peace established, I think many if not most Syrian refugees will choose to move back. Given any option of their choosing, that is where they'd rather be living, but without constant danger and fear. But to just say "let's fix their country and let them stay" isn't thinking about what an tangled mess that situation is and how long it will take to "fix" it.

[japantiger 4,051]

Why don't we help them live in their own damn country instead of bringing them all here? If all of the "good" Muslims are trying to leave, by letting them all come here, aren't we in essence just giving up on Syria?

This looks like Detroit...point?