FoundationEagle 637 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Sounds as if Gus and Rhett may be buying in to the 'can't win without a DTQB' argument. Interesting, if so. Personally, I think we have a serious problem with QB evaluation and development if Gus thinks he needs a JUCO QB to come in and take over heading into the 4th year of his program. Well, it seems NM was properly evaluated, looks as if SW is the type of qb we thought he'd be (accurate pocket passer with decent pocket presence but not much of a running threat)...no news on whether Queen is what we thought...so currently on evals we've been correct on 2 and missed on 1. If you look around the league at how many 5 star QBs don't pan out, I'd say 2 out of 3 so far is pretty good. I don't think its quite fair to label this staff as bad at evaluating and coaching QBs based off of 1 qb not working out. Just my opinion. That said, if we don't evaluate guys properly, why would anyone think the next guy in would save the day? Funny way to think. (and yes strychnine I get that you weren't necessarily implying that is the case, this was just a good place for me put this) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Not to mention Marshall had the inate ability to avoid big hits. Something else that speed doesn't necessarily give you. Moral of the story: Nick Marshalls don't grow on trees... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger88 934 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Yep. One of the times he got hurt he decided he was going to punish a db and hurt his shoulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAG 33,993 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 At 6'1" and 183lbs I worry about his durability throughout a season in the SEC. How heavy was Nick Marshall? 210 Quite a difference Nick wasn't that big when he arrived. I don't think he weighed 200 when he got to campus. Nor Did Sean white who is measuring 6 feet and 200 pounds. And is currently injured... Doesn't help when you refuse to slide or go out of bounds. SW runs hard but takes on hits that could be avoided. A couple times he fumbled on those hits but recovered them. NM got a stinger one time and learned there is no point of this and started running smarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoundationEagle 637 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 At 6'1" and 183lbs I worry about his durability throughout a season in the SEC. How heavy was Nick Marshall? 210 Quite a difference Nick wasn't that big when he arrived. I don't think he weighed 200 when he got to campus. Nor Did Sean white who is measuring 6 feet and 200 pounds. And is currently injured... Doesn't help when you refuse to slide or go out of bounds. SW runs hard but takes on hits that could be avoided. A couple times he fumbled on those hits but recovered them. NM got a stinger one time and learned there is no point of this and started running smarter. Don't disagree. SW has probably learned now that it's better to not get injured. I also think he was in a position of trying to single handedly uplift a lackluster offense while proving to everyone around him that he was good enough to be the starter which may have led him to play tougher than he had to to be effective. I think he earned the respect of his teammates and coaches in doing so but also lost several games to injury because of that. Should he be the guy next year, he's already earned the respect so maybe he'll focus more on staying healthy than plowing through guys that outweigh him by 50 pounds of muscle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAG 33,993 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 At 6'1" and 183lbs I worry about his durability throughout a season in the SEC. How heavy was Nick Marshall? 210 Quite a difference Nick wasn't that big when he arrived. I don't think he weighed 200 when he got to campus. Nor Did Sean white who is measuring 6 feet and 200 pounds. And is currently injured... Doesn't help when you refuse to slide or go out of bounds. SW runs hard but takes on hits that could be avoided. A couple times he fumbled on those hits but recovered them. NM got a stinger one time and learned there is no point of this and started running smarter. Don't disagree. SW has probably learned now that it's better to not get injured. I also think he was in a position of trying to single handedly uplift a lackluster offense while proving to everyone around him that he was good enough to be the starter which may have led him to play tougher than he had to to be effective. I think he earned the respect of his teammates and coaches in doing so but also lost several games to injury because of that. Should he be the guy next year, he's already earned the respect so maybe he'll focus more on staying healthy than plowing through guys that outweigh him by 50 pounds of muscle. He definitely has respect that's for sure. He was put in a no-win situation between the coaching staff handcuffing him and inconsistent wide receiver play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cole256 17,084 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I disagree, I think SW was placed in an awesome situation. Inserted in against the weak portion of the schedule was able to grow with team. Plan became messed up when he was hurt and didn't play against anybody with a pass rush. Now the coaches are in the same position of thinking they may have something but don't know how he'll perform against a good defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUwent 3,754 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Sounds as if Gus and Rhett may be buying in to the 'can't win without a DTQB' argument. Interesting, if so. Personally, I think we have a serious problem with QB evaluation and development if Gus thinks he needs a JUCO QB to come in and take over heading into the 4th year of his program. I think the writing is on the wall. Look at the two incoming QBs we have coming in the future. Woody and Narcisse are both typical DT QBs. BTW, Woody has some serious confidence in his abilities to start this coming fall. it is going to be a great competition. I think Gus prefers a dual-threat QB, but I think he also wants a dual-threat that is just as threatening with his arm as his legs. It should be a great competition for the QB spot. The receivers coming in should help too. I think you're right. It's not like he is all of a sudden focusing in on recruiting only DT QB's. He's been recruiting them, they've just decided to go to other schools. Yep. One went to Clemson and the other went to LSU. If we had one of those guys this offense would be nasty right now. I'm pretty sure that us having JJ and already going after SW and TQ might've had something to do with that. This QB situation is sounding like 2012 and 2008. What is it with leap years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigskinPat 2,579 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 At 6'1" and 183lbs I worry about his durability throughout a season in the SEC. How heavy was Nick Marshall? 210 Quite a difference Nick wasn't that big when he arrived. I don't think he weighed 200 when he got to campus. He was listed at 205 in juco: http://247sports.com/Player/Nick-Marshall-713?PlayerInstitution=38650 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoundationEagle 637 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I disagree, I think SW was placed in an awesome situation. Inserted in against the weak portion of the schedule was able to grow with team. Plan became messed up when he was hurt and didn't play against anybody with a pass rush. Now the coaches are in the same position of thinking they may have something but don't know how he'll perform against a good defense. He played against MSU ( first game ever was an SEC d with an offense that had floundered for consecutive weeks) Arkansas (has a pretty decent pass rush and Ole Miss (NFL talent on the DLine)... and he was already injured for the Ole Miss game. That's an awesome situation and no teams with a pass rush? I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. EDIT: Went and looked and you're more right than I thought on the pass rush, neither of those teams were in the top 50 in sacks. That said our Oline wasn't exactly world beaters against the pass either so it's kind of a wash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger88 934 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I disagree, I think SW was placed in an awesome situation. Inserted in against the weak portion of the schedule was able to grow with team. Plan became messed up when he was hurt and didn't play against anybody with a pass rush. Now the coaches are in the same position of thinking they may have something but don't know how he'll perform against a good defense. He played against MSU ( first game ever was an SEC d with an offense that had floundered for consecutive weeks) Arkansas (has a pretty decent pass rush and Ole Miss (NFL talent on the DLine)... and he was already injured for the Ole Miss game. That's an awesome situation and no teams with a pass rush? I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Yeah. SW stepped right inho the catbird seat, lol. More like he walked into the middle of a cluster you know what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooltigger21 0 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Sounds as if Gus and Rhett may be buying in to the 'can't win without a DTQB' argument. Interesting, if so. Personally, I think we have a serious problem with QB evaluation and development if Gus thinks he needs a JUCO QB to come in and take over heading into the 4th year of his program. It's more about getting a dual threat guy. You can put up good numbers with a passing QB but with DT you just move to another level of effectiveness. With the right person it's practically lethal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cole256 17,084 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I was just saying he was able to come in get his feet wet, get a bye week then get Kentucky and San Jose st. That was a great time to come in. The game against ole miss wasn't that good but like you said he was hurt in it. I'm sure the coaches wanted him to get the experience and be an improved qb ready for the last games of this season but the leg injury hurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cole256 17,084 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Sounds as if Gus and Rhett may be buying in to the 'can't win without a DTQB' argument. Interesting, if so. Personally, I think we have a serious problem with QB evaluation and development if Gus thinks he needs a JUCO QB to come in and take over heading into the 4th year of his program. It's more about getting a dual threat guy. You can put up good numbers with a passing QB but with DT you just move to another level of effectiveness. With the right person it's practically lethal. Baylor's offense is a great example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cole256 17,084 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I disagree, I think SW was placed in an awesome situation. Inserted in against the weak portion of the schedule was able to grow with team. Plan became messed up when he was hurt and didn't play against anybody with a pass rush. Now the coaches are in the same position of thinking they may have something but don't know how he'll perform against a good defense. He played against MSU ( first game ever was an SEC d with an offense that had floundered for consecutive weeks) Arkansas (has a pretty decent pass rush and Ole Miss (NFL talent on the DLine)... and he was already injured for the Ole Miss game. That's an awesome situation and no teams with a pass rush? I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Yeah. SW stepped right inho the catbird seat, lol. More like he walked into the middle of a cluster you know what. Many seem to forget the improvement of the team from the bye week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoundationEagle 637 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I was just saying he was able to come in get his feet wet, get a bye week then get Kentucky and San Jose st. That was a great time to come in. The game against ole miss wasn't that good but like you said he was hurt in it. I'm sure the coaches wanted him to get the experience and be an improved qb ready for the last games of this season but the leg injury hurt Fair enough. The MSU game was a tough situation to step into for any qb with the way our O had played, let alone for the first college snap ever. Funny story. Kentucky and AU are tied at 107th in the country with 17 sacks. Looks like every qb had an easy situation against us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cole256 17,084 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Well they usually had plenty of time to throw the ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAG 33,993 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I disagree, I think SW was placed in an awesome situation. Inserted in against the weak portion of the schedule was able to grow with team. Plan became messed up when he was hurt and didn't play against anybody with a pass rush. Now the coaches are in the same position of thinking they may have something but don't know how he'll perform against a good defense. I never said anything about his competition. I agree that he didn't play the best competition, which is why I am not on the SW bandwagon and completely open to franklin competing for the #1 spot. However, I do think he was handcuffed sufficiently by the coaching staff leading up to his injury. They didn't have confidence in him at all and it truly affected the offense. Like I've posted before, the coaches should know the strength and weaknesses of their players. If you look at Baylor, they had injuries all year at the QB position, but they had a blueprint. Their starter comes out and a true freshman comes in and lights it up. Why? Because they know what they have, they already have an identity and they continue with it. They also had a plan C in case their freshman got hurt, which he did. They converted one of their receivers to QB and schemed to his strengths. They didn't just experiment to see what they had. They knew what they had before the game even started or at least what they could achieve. So, I don't want to make this into a SW vs JJ war or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strychnine 1,802 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I was just saying he was able to come in get his feet wet, get a bye week then get Kentucky and San Jose st. That was a great time to come in. The game against ole miss wasn't that good but like you said he was hurt in it. I'm sure the coaches wanted him to get the experience and be an improved qb ready for the last games of this season but the leg injury hurt Fair enough. The MSU game was a tough situation to step into for any qb with the way our O had played, let alone for the first college snap ever. Funny story. Kentucky and AU are tied at 107th in the country with 17 sacks. Looks like every qb had an easy situation against us. Indeed. Yet the defense played well enough to win all of them after LSU. If you told me in July that the defense would hold almost everyone after LSU under 30 and the team still lose 5 of those games, I would have thought you were insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbomb 193 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Regardless, We'll have Sean White, Woody Barrett, Tyler Queen (barring a healthy recovery), and JF3 competing for the starting QB job next season. That's a positive. You forgot JJ. *chuckles JJ should be playing receiver next year.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUbritt 611 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I disagree, I think SW was placed in an awesome situation. Inserted in against the weak portion of the schedule was able to grow with team. Plan became messed up when he was hurt and didn't play against anybody with a pass rush. Now the coaches are in the same position of thinking they may have something but don't know how he'll perform against a good defense. I never said anything about his competition. I agree that he didn't play the best competition, which is why I am not on the SW bandwagon and completely open to franklin competing for the #1 spot. However, I do think he was handcuffed sufficiently by the coaching staff leading up to his injury. They didn't have confidence in him at all and it truly affected the offense. Like I've posted before, the coaches should know the strength and weaknesses of their players. If you look at Baylor, they had injuries all year at the QB position, but they had a blueprint. Their starter comes out and a true freshman comes in and lights it up. Why? Because they know what they have, they already have an identity and they continue with it. They also had a plan C in case their freshman got hurt, which he did. They converted one of their receivers to QB and schemed to his strengths. They didn't just experiment to see what they had. They knew what they had before the game even started or at least what they could achieve. So, I don't want to make this into a SW vs JJ war or whatever. I agree, DAG. Seems like it takes Gus a long time to figure things out (see Cam Newton). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cole256 17,084 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I disagree, I think SW was placed in an awesome situation. Inserted in against the weak portion of the schedule was able to grow with team. Plan became messed up when he was hurt and didn't play against anybody with a pass rush. Now the coaches are in the same position of thinking they may have something but don't know how he'll perform against a good defense. I never said anything about his competition. I agree that he didn't play the best competition, which is why I am not on the SW bandwagon and completely open to franklin competing for the #1 spot. However, I do think he was handcuffed sufficiently by the coaching staff leading up to his injury. They didn't have confidence in him at all and it truly affected the offense. Like I've posted before, the coaches should know the strength and weaknesses of their players. If you look at Baylor, they had injuries all year at the QB position, but they had a blueprint. Their starter comes out and a true freshman comes in and lights it up. Why? Because they know what they have, they already have an identity and they continue with it. They also had a plan C in case their freshman got hurt, which he did. They converted one of their receivers to QB and schemed to his strengths. They didn't just experiment to see what they had. They knew what they had before the game even started or at least what they could achieve. So, I don't want to make this into a SW vs JJ war or whatever. I think they were trying to modulate more responsibility on SW gradually. I thought they let him play the last couple of games. I did notice they handcuffed him in the redzone though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUbritt 611 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I was just saying he was able to come in get his feet wet, get a bye week then get Kentucky and San Jose st. That was a great time to come in. The game against ole miss wasn't that good but like you said he was hurt in it. I'm sure the coaches wanted him to get the experience and be an improved qb ready for the last games of this season but the leg injury hurt Fair enough. The MSU game was a tough situation to step into for any qb with the way our O had played, let alone for the first college snap ever. Funny story. Kentucky and AU are tied at 107th in the country with 17 sacks. Looks like every qb had an easy situation against us. Indeed. Yet the defense played well enough to win all of them after LSU. If you told me in July that the defense would hold almost everyone after LSU under 30 and the team still lose 5 of those games, I would have thought you were insane. Feel the same way. Unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigskinPat 2,579 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I was just saying he was able to come in get his feet wet, get a bye week then get Kentucky and San Jose st. That was a great time to come in. The game against ole miss wasn't that good but like you said he was hurt in it. I'm sure the coaches wanted him to get the experience and be an improved qb ready for the last games of this season but the leg injury hurt Fair enough. The MSU game was a tough situation to step into for any qb with the way our O had played, let alone for the first college snap ever. Funny story. Kentucky and AU are tied at 107th in the country with 17 sacks. Looks like every qb had an easy situation against us. Indeed. Yet the defense played well enough to win all of them after LSU. If you told me in July that the defense would hold almost everyone after LSU under 30 and the team still lose 5 of those games, I would have thought you were insane. Agree 100%. I said when we hired Will that if he could just get us to slightly above average we are contenders. Insane indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altima 200 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Regardless, We'll have Sean White, Woody Barrett, Tyler Queen (barring a healthy recovery), and JF3 competing for the starting QB job next season. That's a positive. You forgot JJ. *chuckles JJ should be playing receiver next year.. Wouldn't be very good... slow first step, and afraid of contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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