Naming a Starting QB at Auburn

[AUsince72 11,084]

20 minutes ago, VipersStrike1 said:

Not disagreeing with you, but if Craig was coaching the wrong position, why was he hired to coach WRs at a different program?

Good question.  I wouldn't....but then Les makes a little more than I do to make those decisions.

[VipersStrike1 230]

16 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Yes, I do know.  This is what I do and what i know.  You are wrong in your initial premise and that is affecting your argument. Speed has a finite limit, but elite athletes do not reach that point in high school. They continue to get bigger and faster. Therefore, each year that they go through the offseason, they tend to get faster until they reach their full potential.  Some don't fully realize it while in school.

With a simple search, I found this. It talks about speed training in college. It specifically talks about a player gaining weight and becoming faster...weird, huh?

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/9630732/oregon-ducks-use-speed-school-train-fastest-offense-espn-magazine

Never said they reach their pinnacle speed in high school.

Said from one College season to the next College season.

WR and RB coaches, esp in the SEC, don't recruit 4.7 guys and believe their training will get them to 4.4 - 4.5.

They recruit speed.

There's a reason John Franklin is in the mix at QB for Gus. And it ain't his arm.

Well-documented that Franklin was a Track and Field star at FSU.....AND......GASP...................High School.

Weird, huh?

[bigbird 60,580]

No, you said

Other than a significant weight loss causing it, have never heard of a College Football player, maintaining the same weight, getting faster from one season to the next.

That is wrong. Period.  Speed is developed. Yes it helps to have some in the beginning, but there is only one reason that college programs have speed programs, and it's not to maintain speed or for there players to lose weight. It's to get faster.

And nice job skipping the link you asked for that proves speed is developed through offseason work not losing weight.

[VipersStrike1 230]

8 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

Okay, I gotcha... You're a nuts and bolts guy (the mano a mano, statistically speaking,  of it all).  I get it and respect where you're coming from.

Just for conversation's sake, I was thinking more along the lines of the "historic" nature of it.  Sure AU was 6-0 but look who those 6 wins were against at that point..and remember that was not the same OM, LSU or even MSU that we have today on top of Vandy & Sanford. Heck, Southern Miss might have been their 2nd toughest game behind LSU at that point... but after CPD's last two years, AU hiring a HC from Sanford (may be a Bowden, but it wasnt' Bobby.....wasn't even Tommy),  and ONLY Auburn people believed they could beat mighty Spurrier?

I definitely put this in the top 5 (maybe 2 or 3) since I've been aware of AU football (since late 70's).  I think that game singlehandedly catapulted the 93 Tigers the rest of the way, to one of the greatest stories in Auburn history.

Of course, we have a whole season to go through before determining the ranking of THIS game (on those terms).

War Eagle!

Very few AU people I know found greater joy in that 93 season than me. The FL and bammer wins still remain two of my all-time fav games.

Beating FL that season might have seemed improbable because of the two previous down years, but that AU team didn't luck their way into 6-0.

I said it after the season and I'll say it today. If we had been eligible for the 93 SEC Title, I don't believe we would have beaten FL again.

We were a really sound and fundamental team with a LOT of heart. FL made a ton of mistakes in that game due to a Freshman QB. That was the difference.

FWIW - I believe the 94 FL win was a MUCH bigger upset than 93 because of it being in the Swamp + the Gators had the #1 ranked D in the nation at the time.

[75 Walk On 36]

1 hour ago, VipersStrike1 said:

REALLY? You KNOW? EVERY YEAR? PROVIDE A LINK. TAKE THE TIME to prove my absurdity.

Building strength and increasing conditioning are easily accomplished. Common people do that every day working out on their own.

Gaining 1/10 second in the 40 isn't easily accomplished.

In track and at the combine, practicing techniques, such as getting off the starting line certainly helps.

There's a reason for the adage, "There's no substitute for speed." You are either born with it or not.

I'm new on this site but have to butt in here.  I played this game for more years than I want to admit and one of the first things emphasized when I reached the Plains was mechanics in running to specifically help as we developed our muscles with weight training which together improved most of our 40 times.

the truth is that some young men hit growth and developmental spurts at different ages which helps explain why 2 stars end up in the pros.  I know my 40 times improved with age and I put on 20 pounds from my freshman year to end of my sophomore year.

I know I was not on the same level with the exceptional athletes; but in my opinion yes our guys can get faster with physical maturity through proper weight training.

 

[AUsince72 11,084]

1 minute ago, VipersStrike1 said:

Very few AU people I know found greater joy in that 93 season than me. The FL and bammer wins still remain two of my all-time fav games.

Beating FL that season might have seemed improbable because of the two previous down years, but that AU team didn't luck their way into 6-0.

I said it after the season and I'll say it today. If we had been eligible for the 93 SEC Title, I don't believe we would have beaten FL again.

We were a really sound and fundamental team with a LOT of heart. FL made a ton of mistakes in that game due to a Freshman QB. That was the difference.

FWIW - I believe the 94 FL win was a MUCH bigger upset than 93 because of it being in the Swamp + the Gators had the #1 ranked D in the nation at the time.

I can't argue with you on any point.  Just our points of "emphasis" varies a little.

As for 94 vs 93, OH, I agree that the "game day" result itself was bigger (it was ON television, after all ha ha) but considering how 94 ended vs 93, I (again) consider 93 to be more historically significant.

We ain't far apart...just slightly different perspectives.

[auburnphan 6,050]

37 minutes ago, VipersStrike1 said:

Not disagreeing with you, but if Craig was coaching the wrong position, why was he hired to coach WRs at a different program?

Craig may very well be a better QB coach, but he was never really given an opportunity to train his WR's how he wanted.  It was an issue.  He couldn't play who he wanted, it was an issue.  He was also given a title and when he wanted to actually prove his title we all know what happened.  DC is an intense competitor, you crush that enthusiasm and slow his career goals, you pay.  Gus made us pay, he knew what he was getting when he offered the job.  I am openminded to what KB brings to the table, he is gonna be a great coach someday, hopefully sooner than later

[bigbird 60,580]

1 hour ago, 75 Walk On said:

I'm new on this site but have to butt in here.  I played this game for more years than I want to admit and one of the first things emphasized when I reached the Plains was mechanics in running to specifically help as we developed our muscles with weight training which together improved most of our 40 times.

the truth is that some young men hit growth and developmental spurts at different ages which helps explain why 2 stars end up in the pros.  I know my 40 times improved with age and I put on 20 pounds from my freshman year to end of my sophomore year.

I know I was not on the same level with the exceptional athletes; but in my opinion yes our guys can get faster with physical maturity through proper weight training.

 

Thank you for your insight.

Sprint mechanics is so important. Arm swing, knee lift, body lean, dorsiflexion are all aspect to good mechanics. Besides learning this, Resistance running, stride development, and muscle development are all components that increase speed.

[aujeff11 6,243]

11 minutes ago, 75 Walk On said:

I'm new on this site but have to butt in here.  I played this game for more years than I want to admit and one of the first things emphasized when I reached the Plains was mechanics in running to specifically help as we developed our muscles with weight training which together improved most of our 40 times.

the truth is that some young men hit growth and developmental spurts at different ages which helps explain why 2 stars end up in the pros.  I know my 40 times improved with age and I put on 20 pounds from my freshman year to end of my sophomore year.

I know I was not on the same level with the exceptional athletes; but in my opinion yes our guys can get faster with physical maturity through proper weight training.

 

I think they're both right personally. Like my football coach said, " I can teach you to be faster, but I can't teach you how to be fast." Being fast is a God given trait. Working your butt off to maybe taper off a tenth of a second by honing in on your fundamentals is all work ethic. 

Just for the record Bird, the featured football player that was said to have worked down to a 5.08 ran a 5.21 at his pro day. 

[doc4aday 1,887]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

No, you said

Other than a significant weight loss causing it, have never heard of a College Football player, maintaining the same weight, getting faster from one season to the next.

That is wrong. Period.  Speed is developed. Yes it helps to have some in the beginning, but there is only one reason that college programs have speed programs, and it's not to maintain speed or for there players to lose weight. It's to get faster.

And nice job skipping the link you asked for that proves speed is developed through offseason work not losing weight.

I lost 45 lbs and still cannot run a 40 under 8 seconds

[doc4aday 1,887]

I seriously doubt Gus will ever sign another pocket passer QB for his system. I remember in 2014 the discussion about different types of QBs in Gus' system. Some folks were insistent that at pocket passer style QB could excel in our system. Last year should have been enough evidence to prove that we need a DT QB who can run see Cam, Nick, and the next DT QB. likely Woody Barrett. Does anyone know what Barrett's 40 time is? If JFIII can come in and run up and down the field and throw a pass here and there, we will see some offense totals more like 2013 and part of 2014.

[VipersStrike1 230]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

No, you said

Other than a significant weight loss causing it, have never heard of a College Football player, maintaining the same weight, getting faster from one season to the next.

You are wrong. Period.  Speed is developed. Yes it helps to have some in the beginning, but there is only one reason that college programs have speed programs, and it's not to maintain speed or for there players to lose weight. It's to get faster.

And nice job skipping the link you asked for that proves speed is developed through offseason work not losing weight.

When did I say speed lessons/techniques didn't exist?

I said " Point out a single Auburn skill player that has increased their 40 time by 1/10 second from one season to the next without losing weight. "

And you can't do it. You failed at it. And that's ok.

[VipersStrike1 230]

1 hour ago, AUsince72 said:

I can't argue with you on any point.  Just our points of "emphasis" varies a little.

As for 94 vs 93, OH, I agree that the "game day" result itself was bigger (it was ON television, after all ha ha) but considering how 94 ended vs 93, I (again) consider 93 to be more historically significant.

We ain't far apart...just slightly different perspectives.

I get it.

Again, the 93 team, specifically the offense, was a sound fundamental squad. They RARELY turned it over. A big reason why they won every game.

Not the case with White or Johnson.

And that's a big reason why beating 2016 Clemson would dwarf beating 93 FL.

[VipersStrike1 230]

1 hour ago, auburnphan said:

Craig may very well be a better QB coach, but he was never really given an opportunity to train his WR's how he wanted.  It was an issue.  He couldn't play who he wanted, it was an issue.

I heard that rumor from several posters. Was it actually confirmed from the horse's mouth?

[VipersStrike1 230]

1 hour ago, aujeff11 said:

Just for the record Bird, the featured football player that was said to have worked down to a 5.08 ran a 5.21 at his pro day. 

[FistyMcBeefpunch 28]

Is anyone else nervous about the fact that Woody Barrett hasn't redshirted yet?  They say he's way behind the other three, but why consider playing him if the race is going so well?

[ScottsboroAuburnFan 462]

Your compairing returning talent to  Our Talent. The Talent is equall mostly across the board.  Ur just saying thier stats is better but do u wanna look up stats on alabamas returning players stats vs the guys we had returning in 2010. I'm sure paper said we would lose by 50 lol. But talent was pretty equal. 

[VipersStrike1 230]

1 minute ago, FistyMcBeefpunch said:

Is anyone else nervous about the fact that Woody Barrett hasn't redshirted yet?  They say he's way behind the other three, but why consider playing him if the race is going so well?

It's never been commonplace to announce a Redshirt to a QB before the season. A couple of injuries and he's your backup.

Gus typically only announces Redshirt if that player has an injury that will not allow him to participate at all.

[bigbird 60,580]

49 minutes ago, VipersStrike1 said:

When did I say speed lessons/techniques didn't exist?

I said " Point out a single Auburn skill player that has increased their 40 time by 1/10 second from one season to the next without losing weight. "

And you can't do it. You failed at it. And that's ok.

 

Javaris Davis 5'9.5" 173lbs 4.47 in HS

Javaris Davis  5' 10 180lbs  4.18 @ AU

Now I have given you a link showing the use of speed training and its results as well as one for your "just name one" argument. 

 

I'm done with this. A former player has refuted you as well as two coaches. Your insight in the matter is lacking and you repeatedly have shown it. I see no need continuing to prove you wrong.

 

[VipersStrike1 230]

3 minutes ago, ScottsboroAuburnFan said:

Your compairing returning talent to  Our Talent. The Talent is equall mostly across the board.  Ur just saying thier stats is better but do u wanna look up stats on alabamas returning players stats vs the guys we had returning in 2010. I'm sure paper said we would lose by 50 lol. But talent was pretty equal. 

Was different as Cam & Dyer didn't play for AU in 2009. McElroy & Ingram did for bammer in 2009.

McCalebb (4), Fannin (3), Zachery (6), Adams (10), Lutz (2), Burns (8) in 2009. = 33 total TDs.

McElroy (18) Ingram (20), Richardson (8), Jones (4), Maze (2), Hanks (3), Peeke (3) = 58 total TDs.

So with Cam & Dyer not in the equation, we were within a respectable margin at 25 TDs.

Both Watson and White played last season, so they're relevant.

[VipersStrike1 230]

2 minutes ago, bigbird said:

 

Javaris Davis 5'9.5" 173lbs 4.47 in HS

Javaris Davis  5' 10 180lbs  4.18 @ AU

Now I have given you a link showing the use of speed training and its results as well as one for your "just name one" argument. 

 

I'm done with this. A former player has refuted you as well as two coaches. Your insight in the matter is lacking and you repeatedly have shown it. I see no need to continue proving you wrong.

 

Javaris Davis is a Redshirt Freshman, two years removed from that High School stat above.

I recall there was lots of controversy surrounding that meter that day because of all the abnormally low measurements.

Rudy Ford at 4.2? He's fast, but he ain't Fullwood 4.28 fast.

Franklin a 4.28 when he was officially clocked on FSU's Track & Field team at 4.38.

[ScottsboroAuburnFan 462]

JJ was starter last season, and our top 2 RBs are gone. JF3 may start it's yet to be said by coaches. Talent is still very equal. The stats only further my point. Stats don't define a teams season one to the next. Games are not played on paper. Give me a list of each teams possibe starters and thier recruiting rank. I know that's only paper but it's the basis for talent that's is unproven.

[JBiGGiE 2,488]

InB4 thread lock...

[ScottsboroAuburnFan 462]

5 minutes ago, JBiGGiE said:

InB4 thread lock...

Hey there is good clean discussion going on here... It's enjoyable to some of us.

[DAG 34,017]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

 

Javaris Davis 5'9.5" 173lbs 4.47 in HS

Javaris Davis  5' 10 180lbs  4.18 @ AU

Now I have given you a link showing the use of speed training and its results as well as one for your "just name one" argument. 

 

I'm done with this. A former player has refuted you as well as two coaches. Your insight in the matter is lacking and you repeatedly have shown it. I see no need continuing to prove you wrong.

 

 

 

I have had a fun time reading this debate. However, you honestly believe Javaris Davis ran a faster official laser timed 40 than Chris Johnson? I have only seen one official forty time of Javaris and this was in high school. I believe it was a 4.5. Ugh, I digress. Might as well lock this up.