Let's talk about Sean

[ClaytonAU 4,606]

7 minutes ago, Tiger Scout said:

THATS GREAT I LOOK AT SCORING POINTS. THATS WHAT WINS GAMES NOT YOUR BULLSH## STAT. 

"Scout"

[Tiger Scout 92]

first of all i want to see malzahn let white throw more in the redzone instead of playing for field goals. we also have to buy him more time in the pocket. he hasnt had alot of time for routes to develope. malzahn needs to forget some of the stupid gimmick run plays. his play calling could improve. receivers have to catch it if it hits their hand and learn how to be more aggresive in one on one situations

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

17 minutes ago, Tiger Scout said:

first of all i want to see malzahn let white throw more in the redzone instead of playing for field goals. we also have to buy him more time in the pocket. he hasnt had alot of time for routes to develope. malzahn needs to forget some of the stupid gimmick run plays. his play calling could improve. receivers have to catch it if it hits their hand and learn how to be more aggresive in one on one situations

Well, perhaps with CRL and CHH handling the offense now. we will see what you want. I think we all pretty much want that.

[leglessdan 1,934]

29 minutes ago, Tiger Scout said:

first of all i want to see malzahn let white throw more in the redzone instead of playing for field goals. we also have to buy him more time in the pocket. he hasnt had alot of time for routes to develope. malzahn needs to forget some of the stupid gimmick run plays. his play calling could improve. receivers have to catch it if it hits their hand and learn how to be more aggresive in one on one situations

Wow man, are you bipolar? Lol. You just totally contradicted your entire argument in this thread. 

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

36 minutes ago, leglessdan said:

Lol. You just totally contradicted your entire argument in this thread. 

You noticed that also, huh?

[AU64 10,122]

6 hours ago, CleCoTiger said:

You noticed that also, huh?

Perhaps he just saw the logic in other people's arguments....always nice top find that someone who can be persuaded by superior analysis.

[Tiger Scout 92]

you asked what we could do to improve in redzone. i didnt change my postion on white. i hope white keeps getting better every game but i perfer a dual threat qb. i just enjoy watching those type of qbs better and think they give a offense a advantage. seems malzahn doesnt trust white to throw much since 75 percent of time we run so for a guy that is 3rd in the sec in passing completions whats the problem?

[leglessdan 1,934]

33 minutes ago, Tiger Scout said:

you asked what we could do to improve in redzone. i didnt change my postion on white. i hope white keeps getting better every game but i perfer a dual threat qb. i just enjoy watching those type of qbs better and think they give a offense a advantage. seems malzahn doesnt trust white to throw much since 75 percent of time we run so for a guy that is 3rd in the sec in passing completions whats the problem?

Like I've said before, I don't think Sean is a superior QB either. I do think however, that he can manage the team and lead the offense. Yeah, DTQB is nice to have, but we don't have one on the roster. We have Sean, who is more than capable in moving the ball with intermediate passing and an occasional deep throw. **Occasional** As far as throwing in the redzone..I don't know. Maybe Gus gets gun shy when he gets in FG range and feels the safest way to assure him we get 3 points is running the ball. That mentality isn't going to win you many games in the SEC west. We got lucky in the LSU game. Not to mention our D is playing really well. My point throughput this entire conversation though is there are other deficiencies that if cleaned up will make this O a lot more productive. It's not Sean, although he's made some mistakes and a few bad throws I'm sure he would like to have back, overall it's not Sean's play holding us back. No...there's not gonna be bombs dropping from the sky for TDs, but this "could" be effective if managed properly. I'm also not gonna put it all on the play calling, the boys still have to do their individual assignment. That said, Gus has made it a high tendency to run...run...run in very obvious situations dating back to last year. The offense will never progress if he doesn't remove some of those tendencies IMO. We move the ball well between the 20's mixing up run-pass then get to the redzone and freeze up and settle for 3 or stuffed at the goalline. That tendency has to stop.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

14 hours ago, AU64 said:

I have heard that but then every QB we have seems to enter games with limited play calling opportunities....JJ and SW last year and JF3 this year.   Just curious .....we complain about having a half dozen running plays.....there must be more to it than that? 

You'd think, but the more time passes, the more I think there really are only a handful of plays and the key is the window dressing along with perfect execution.  

[imaolgatiger 523]

28 minutes ago, leglessdan said:

Like I've said before, I don't think Sean is a superior QB either. I do think however, that he can manage the team and lead the offense. Yeah, DTQB is nice to have, but we don't have one on the roster. We have Sean, who is more than capable in moving the ball with intermediate passing and an occasional deep throw. **Occasional** As far as throwing in the redzone..I don't know. Maybe Gus gets gun shy when he gets in FG range and feels the safest way to assure him we get 3 points is running the ball. That mentality isn't going to win you many games in the SEC west. We got lucky in the LSU game. Not to mention our D is playing really well. My point throughput this entire conversation though is there are other deficiencies that if cleaned up will make this O a lot more productive. It's not Sean, although he's made some mistakes and a few bad throws I'm sure he would like to have back, overall it's not Sean's play holding us back. No...there's not gonna be bombs dropping from the sky for TDs, but this "could" be effective if managed properly. I'm also not gonna put it all on the play calling, the boys still have to do their individual assignment. That said, Gus has made it a high tendency to run...run...run in very obvious situations dating back to last year. The offense will never progress if he doesn't remove some of those tendencies IMO. We move the ball well between the 20's mixing up run-pass then get to the redzone and freeze up and settle for 3 or stuffed at the goalline. That tendency has to stop.

Exactly! For all of the Sean bashers, borrowing a line from Animal House "What the hell are we suppose to do, you moron?" He is our best option. I guess they feel good about bashing a college student and pointing out all of his short comings.  I am sure some of these people wanted to be astronauts or brain surgeons, but they were born stupid and can't. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

Quote

 

29 minutes ago, imaolgatiger said:

Exactly! For all of the Sean bashers, borrowing a line from Animal House "What the hell are we suppose to do, you moron?" He is our best option. I guess they feel good about bashing a college student and pointing out all of his short comings.  I am sure some of these people wanted to be astronauts or brain surgeons, but they were born stupid and can't. 

 Nobody has bashed SW. Some people might say he is an average QB, or that he is slow, but that's not bashing him. People are not talking about the person, they're talking about the jersey. People critiquing Sean is nothing compared to how we are pointing out Cox's shortcomings or the WR's shortcomings. 

I don't think he is an average quarterback btw. I think he is an excellent quarterback that has produced average results. Some of it is him. Some of it is due to other variables. Congrats though, I'm sure all the Sean White groupies will rush to like your post. You're well on your way to a 1000 posts. 

[cole256 17,084]

If sw gets bashed then every player that has ever played for this school gets pummeled

[cole256 17,084]

1 hour ago, AU64 said:

Perhaps he just saw the logic in other people's arguments....always nice top find that someone who can be persuaded by superior analysis.

He really didn't, he actually offered critique to everybody and didn't put it all on one person...it was actually one of the better posts in this thread

[leglessdan 1,934]

24 minutes ago, cole256 said:

He really didn't, he actually offered critique to everybody and didn't put it all on one person...it was actually one of the better posts in this thread

"he fumbled against lsu, gets sacked or cant escape pressure to make a play, cant score touchdowns in the redzone or against quality defenses, cant throw a accurate deep ball. he has all the talent in the world around him and he is struggling to lead them. hopefully he continues to get better i would love to see him succeed but he has alot of room for improvement. dont be a idiot you act like he is perfect he has been average at best so far nothing special"

 

So you think this is critiquing everyone? Sounds to me like he solely is blaming one person and one position on the field. 

[AuburnNTexas 7,171]

22 hours ago, willieguns said:

You said it already so no need to debate this one your a fan of him.  Most of us are not he don't fit Malzahn offense at all that is why we struggle in the red zone.  He holds the ball too long don't' throw the deep ball well.  I will say this the play calling has been terrible for 2 years.  Maybe the 6 plays we run over and over again teams are finally catching up to them.  SW best game to date in terms of numbers is inferior competition. what game would you classify as his marque game?  Kentucky? and how many TD's did he have?  lets now talk about Memphis (you will probably use the injured excuse) who is playing football 100% healthy at the end of the year?  Nobody...

I am like Bird I don't understand why so many don't think SW can be a winner. 

1. Clemson the total lack of a QB philosophy by the HC and OC plus total lack of blocking didn't allow any QB to look good. D kept us in we actually had a slight chance of winning.

2. Arky State - O hitting on all Cylinders - Quality of opponent had a lot to do with that.

3. Texas A&M - O-Line Problems - to many big losses on 1st down. SW also was not as sharp as he could have been - Pressure does that to a QB,

4. LSU - O-Line played better in that negative plays were much better then against Clemson and A&M. Play calling was better. Still to many obvious 3rd down passing situations but SW actually saved 1st down multiple times. Was 19-26 with two dropped passes and two bad passes.  Got us to Red Zone we didn't get TD's. When we get to Red Zone we go real conservative. If we think about throwing it is with QB rolling which removes half the field as an option to throw to.  Also pass routes we run in End Zone are predicated on receiver being wide open I have yet to see us try a back shoulder throw in the end zone. Is that because SW can't make that throw, Our Receivers are not tall enough, or our coaches don't want to take a chance. I don't know.

Somebody said those of us who like SW make excuses for him O-Line, bad play calling, etc. There is some truth to that but it seems to happen every time we are in Red Zone.  When Nick was here there were times we just gave the ball to RB 's in the Red zone and we scored no trickery we just beat people up front. If that happened just once or twice in LSU game we would have won handily and everybody would be bragging what a great QB SW was.

As for those who say he can't throw the long ball. Tom Brady is not very good at the long ball it sure hasn't hurt his career.  SW has completed a few long passes this year the difference is after catching the passes none of our receivers have broken that one tackle and taken it to the house.  Once you get over 30 yards all QB's accuracy goes down. But by hitting one every now and then and missing one every now and then you keep the D honest.

 

[cole256 17,084]

22 minutes ago, leglessdan said:

"he fumbled against lsu, gets sacked or cant escape pressure to make a play, cant score touchdowns in the redzone or against quality defenses, cant throw a accurate deep ball. he has all the talent in the world around him and he is struggling to lead them. hopefully he continues to get better i would love to see him succeed but he has alot of room for improvement. dont be a idiot you act like he is perfect he has been average at best so far nothing special"

 

So you think this is critiquing everyone? Sounds to me like he solely is blaming one person and one position on the field. 

I don't know where that came from but from the post that was quoted that particular post yes he did, this one not so much

[aujeff11 6,243]

6 minutes ago, AuburnNTexas said:

I am like Bird I don't understand why so many don't think SW can be a winner. 

1. Clemson the total lack of a QB philosophy by the HC and OC plus total lack of blocking didn't allow any QB to look good. D kept us in we actually had a slight chance of winning.

2. Arky State - O hitting on all Cylinders - Quality of opponent had a lot to do with that.

3. Texas A&M - O-Line Problems - to many big losses on 1st down. SW also was not as sharp as he could have been - Pressure does that to a QB,

4. LSU - O-Line played better in that negative plays were much better then against Clemson and A&M. Play calling was better. Still to many obvious 3rd down passing situations but SW actually saved 1st down multiple times. Was 19-26 with two dropped passes and two bad passes.  Got us to Red Zone we didn't get TD's. When we get to Red Zone we go real conservative. If we think about throwing it is with QB rolling which removes half the field as an option to throw to.  Also pass routes we run in End Zone are predicated on receiver being wide open I have yet to see us try a back shoulder throw in the end zone. Is that because SW can't make that throw, Our Receivers are not tall enough, or our coaches don't want to take a chance. I don't know.

Somebody said those of us who like SW make excuses for him O-Line, bad play calling, etc. There is some truth to that but it seems to happen every time we are in Red Zone.  When Nick was here there were times we just gave the ball to RB 's in the Red zone and we scored no trickery we just beat people up front. If that happened just once or twice in LSU game we would have won handily and everybody would be bragging what a great QB SW was.

As for those who say he can't throw the long ball. Tom Brady is not very good at the long ball it sure hasn't hurt his career.  SW has completed a few long passes this year the difference is after catching the passes none of our receivers have broken that one tackle and taken it to the house.  Once you get over 30 yards all QB's accuracy goes down. But by hitting one every now and then and missing one every now and then you keep the D honest.

 

Dammit. Why did you just show the board what an evenhanded post looks like! You're a horrible  cheerleader.

[cole256 17,084]

18 minutes ago, AuburnNTexas said:

I am like Bird I don't understand why so many don't think SW can be a winner. 

1. Clemson the total lack of a QB philosophy by the HC and OC plus total lack of blocking didn't allow any QB to look good. D kept us in we actually had a slight chance of winning.

2. Arky State - O hitting on all Cylinders - Quality of opponent had a lot to do with that.

3. Texas A&M - O-Line Problems - to many big losses on 1st down. SW also was not as sharp as he could have been - Pressure does that to a QB,

4. LSU - O-Line played better in that negative plays were much better then against Clemson and A&M. Play calling was better. Still to many obvious 3rd down passing situations but SW actually saved 1st down multiple times. Was 19-26 with two dropped passes and two bad passes.  Got us to Red Zone we didn't get TD's. When we get to Red Zone we go real conservative. If we think about throwing it is with QB rolling which removes half the field as an option to throw to.  Also pass routes we run in End Zone are predicated on receiver being wide open I have yet to see us try a back shoulder throw in the end zone. Is that because SW can't make that throw, Our Receivers are not tall enough, or our coaches don't want to take a chance. I don't know.

Somebody said those of us who like SW make excuses for him O-Line, bad play calling, etc. There is some truth to that but it seems to happen every time we are in Red Zone.  When Nick was here there were times we just gave the ball to RB 's in the Red zone and we scored no trickery we just beat people up front. If that happened just once or twice in LSU game we would have won handily and everybody would be bragging what a great QB SW was.

As for those who say he can't throw the long ball. Tom Brady is not very good at the long ball it sure hasn't hurt his career.  SW has completed a few long passes this year the difference is after catching the passes none of our receivers have broken that one tackle and taken it to the house.  Once you get over 30 yards all QB's accuracy goes down. But by hitting one every now and then and missing one every now and then you keep the D honest.

 

I said some of the stuff you mentioned. Sort of but you took what I said out of context. Yes I said the excuse thing. But it's true. Nobody made excuses for the other qb's and it's the same offense, the same coaches. 

When he throws the long ball I'm sure people well give him credit for it. I promise you as soon as he throws a couple of long passes the adamant cheer leaders will come in and you will see many I thought they said....posts. But he has to do it. And he's played more than enough games to do it so it's no big deal just something he has to work on. What trips me out is the reaction to saying he has to work on it. 

You're right about pressure, long accuracy, drops, route running, etc..the thing about it is every other qb on earth has gone through that as well.

Now if you lean on being not as hard on players that's just the poster you are, I have no problems. If you're hard on players that's the poster you are no problems. But the people I've seen be hard on other qb's and when one qb is getting blasted misses a throw and the response is he's scared and he can't throw and the other qb gets blasted and it's he's tough it's the o line fault....yeah that's hypocrisy. I'm going to say something about it. 

As far as the sw gets attacked and hated movement....You literally have no more than 3 guys that does that. Nobody can name more than 3 posters....everybody else offers critique on him and don't even talk bad about him and it's everybody hates him.

A poster talks good about another qb it's everybody hates sw or are you so and so's dad or uncle....have you seen ANYBODY do that to anybody else? Cleco has a shirt on with sw face on it right now but did anybody attack him? 

Nobody is attacking sw for real. When somebody tried to say he had a bad game I was the first to call that out and that's literally the worst thing that has been said about him. Think about the stuff that's been said about other players...

 

Oh and Brady didn't have deep threat wr's as soon as he did he broke records....Brady can throw the long ball

[lionheartkc 6,150]

3 minutes ago, cole256 said:

As far as the sw gets attacked and hated movement....You literally have no more than 3 guys that does that. Nobody can name more than 3 posters...

This is so true, though there are a couple of others who decided not to play in this thread. Makes you wonder, since their opinion is such a minority opinion, why they can't seem to consider that it might not be correct.

[aujeff11 6,243]

3 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

This is so true, though there are a couple of others who decided not to play in this thread. Makes you wonder, since their opinion is such a minority opinion, why they can't seem to consider that it might not be correct.

This is hilarious. The minority opinion is incorrect because it is the minority opinion. 

[cole256 17,084]

Think we were really super spoiled with Newton and Marshall. And more Marshall than Newton. I think people figured oh we can make any qb special...Marshall was a little better than everybody thought. I personally think if Gus had let him go to that guru he would be every bit as good as Joe Webb and he's an emergency qb in the league....But anyway white has a different style that doesn't make him better or worse....And if Gus can figure this redzone stuff out there won't be anything to complain about. White has shown he can do everything needed. I expect him to start making riskier throws every now and then when he gets a little more comfortable and that's about it right now. Now all that's left is being consistent and doing it on the big stage and those three or four guys will be gone. As long as you don't have the better than cam, Jackson, brees, Montana posts, and that's actually fine but that's asking for a debate and people can't get mad at that

[AuburnNTexas 7,171]

3 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I said some of the stuff you mentioned. Sort of but you took what I said out of context. Yes I said the excuse thing. But it's true. Nobody made excuses for the other qb's and it's the same offense, the same coaches. 

When he throws the long ball I'm sure people well give him credit for it. I promise you as soon as he throws a couple of long passes the adamant cheer leaders will come in and you will see many I thought they said....posts. But he has to do it. And he's played more than enough games to do it so it's no big deal just something he has to work on. What trips me out is the reaction to saying he has to work on it. 

You're right about pressure, long accuracy, drops, route running, etc..the thing about it is every other qb on earth has gone through that as well.

Now if you lean on being not as hard on players that's just the poster you are, I have no problems. If you're hard on players that's the poster you are no problems. But the people I've seen be hard on other qb's and when one qb is getting blasted misses a throw and the response is he's scared and he can't throw and the other qb gets blasted and it's he's tough it's the o line fault....yeah that's hypocrisy. I'm going to say something about it. 

As far as the sw gets attacked and hated movement....You literally have no more than 3 guys that does that. Nobody can name more than 3 posters....everybody else offers critique on him and don't even talk bad about him and it's everybody hates him.

A poster talks good about another qb it's everybody hates sw or are you so and so's dad or uncle....have you seen ANYBODY do that to anybody else? Cleco has a shirt on with sw face on it right now but did anybody attack him? 

Nobody is attacking sw for real. When somebody tried to say he had a bad game I was the first to call that out and that's literally the worst thing that has been said about him. Think about the stuff that's been said about other players...

 

Oh and Brady didn't have deep threat wr's as soon as he did he broke records....Brady can throw the long ball

Cole you have been fair in your evaluation of all the QB's.  I am one of the ones who disagreed that JJ ran scared. I actually said that when it was a called running play that JJ ran hard and picked up yards and threw his body around. JJ some times looked confused when the play wasn't open and could not make up his mind on trying to buy time or running so in those situations he didn't run hard.  JJ played hard every game and was a good role model but he just didn't produce.

I haven't said anything about Franklin other then he can run fast and I have been told he is not very accurate. You are correct bad play calling has hurt whoever is at QB.  as far as the O-Line excuse it is legitimate. As good as Nick and CAM were they would not have looked as good behind this O-line. CAM played behind a Senior Heavy O-line that had played together for a long time and was great as a unit and Nick had Robinson who could always get the team a few yards when needed. The individual players on our O-line are not bad but none has played great and as a unit they are still not messhing as well as I think they can.

Your point on Brady actually validated SW on the long ball. Once Brady got receivers who got open long he looked a lot better. Prior to that though he made a career out of mid range and short range passes. SW has not had a Sammie Coates.  I think some of the new rmight get us there. Great receivers help make great QB's. You need that go to guy who you know will catch the ball when it is not perfect and take it away from the defender.

[JGLEATON 1,244]

I was just gonna say, I think we may miss Sammie Coates just a bit....

he was one of the best getting behind the D and on the Deep ball routes, others have done it...   but not nearly as consistently or as good as Sammie. Nick usually also delivered a pretty good ball to him too.

Maybe we have one or two WR (think about THAT two or more receivers that can do what Sammie did consistently) now that can step up and be that threat consistently, but they have to step up and work on that, and so does SW, gotta work with them now to get on the same page...

A bit of on the job training now... but nothing beats experience, btw.... I think Tony Stevens can be that threat and I think he's starting to put it together. Add to him 2-3 young WR and the opposing D can't focus on one main WR.... multiple deep threats across the field, and we can still run the ball too.

[McLoofus 35,182]

19 hours ago, McLoofus said:

-He didn't even get quality practice reps in 2014, much less any game reps. Was he even officially QB3 in '14?
-He didn't get a single game snap until the 4th game of 2015. 
-He was hurt the 2nd half of 2015.
-Did he even get half the snaps in the season opener this year?

Claiming "3rd year in the system" really, really doesn't float here. 

Quoting myself here, not because I'm impressed with my own words but instead so that there's some context for the tweet I'm going to post below (and so I'm not attacking anybody else). Several of us discussed last year- after Stat told us the same thing going into the season- that the inexperience of our QBs was compounded by the inexperience of those around them. I'm not using it as an excuse for our overall performance as an offensive team this year- no HC gets a pass two years in a row- but when assessing any Auburn QB's performance in 2016, you really need to think about the following IMO:

 

[IronMan70 3,277]

From a tactical standpoint, there is no question that a DTQB in the RZ makes the defense defend much differently. They are forced to loosen up and account for the roll out speed of the DTQB. Having said that, when KP ran the dive play on the goal line, the QB didn't cause Dampeer to double team the DT with Kozan and leave the MLB unblocked into the backfield. Either someone made a mistake or the blocking assignments were poor in the first place.