Who is the second best coach in the SEC right now?

[gr82b4au 5,568]

Gus? He is the only other coach with an SEC championship. AU has progressively gotten worse over the last few years so many people are down on Gus. It will be interesting to see how we finish out the year. If we lose to Ark, OM, etc... his stock will plummet even more. If we win a bunch more this year, it will go up again.

Sumlin? He always seems to lose the big games when they matter and even with johnny football did not win the west. Never finished higher than 4th in the SEC West? 

Bret B? Seems like a good coach, his teams seem to get better during the year but he has not won anything in the SEC. 

Butch Jones? Recruits well, building TN back up, but still has not even made it to the SECCG (yet - maybe this year). 

McElwain? Won the east his first year. 

What do you think?

 

[alexava 6,974]

Saban

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Just now, alexava said:

Saban

to whom do you attribute the #1 ranking?

 

In response to the OP, now that The Hat and Richt are gone, we're left with a lot of coaches still finding their footing. Of all of them, this year, it looks like Sumlin has become the most stable, which is honestly a surprise to me.  It really seams like he's learned his lesson and cleaned up his house.

• Bret is still Bret and I don't know that he will ever truly get it.
• Gus is obviously still learning what works best as a head coach.
• Jones is overrated, in my book.  
• McElwain is and will continue to struggle.  
• Mullen may be on his way out.
• Freeze might find himself on the way out on a bus driven by the NCAA infractions department.
• Stoops is not living up to his pedigree.
• Mason might have actually saved his job, but he's no world beater.
• Muschamp has so far proven to be no better than he was in Florida.
• I don't know how anyone can succeed at Missouri right now.

I tell you one thing... if Coach O can win out at LSU, he might get coach of the year in the SEC.

If it weren't for the fact that Ole Miss very likely cheated to get players, Freeze would probably be #2... of course we all know #1 cheats to get players, so why should #2 be any different.

[warhogone 103]

Personally think it belongs to Gus and is his to lose or improve. Just an old man's opinion.

[gr82b4au 5,568]

I forgot about Freeze. He is good but the NCAA thing holds him back... a lot. 

[msza 228]

Good question.

If you're going on credentials, then -- today at least -- it has to be Gus. If anyone but Bama wins the conference this year, it's a toss up between Gus and that coach, minus maybe Coach O for not having a large enough body of work.

[penguin149 391]

Not sure about all of this love for Coach O?  His record as a head coach is 18-27.  Went win-less in the SEC in his 3rd year, etc.  

TA&M is about due to fall apart most any game now....they start strong and finish weak.  Sumlin finished 2 season in the middle of the SEC West with Hesman winner Johnny Football

Butch Jones is a joke.  UT has a 13 game SECW losing streak.  Every year is UT's year...until a few games into the season, then it's wait for next year

McElwain plays in the soft SECE and still under impresses

Mullen, Stoops nor Mason have done anything to impress.  Mullen came close with Prescott but still couldn't even sniff 1st place in the West

Odom, Muschamp and Smart are too new to tell but none has separated themselves from the pack

Bielema is another middle of pack coach.  Loses games he should win. Arky is already out of the West race and the season is not yet half over

Freeze has over-achieved (for the most part) but hasn't won the West yet.  The debacle with Arky last year probably blew his best chance

Malzahn almost gets #2 by process of elimination but as noted earlier, if AU loses more than 2 more games this year, it will be another disappointing year.  A defensive stand in the 2013 BCSNCG and/or the 2014 Iron Bowl and he would be #2 hands-down

[AUwent 3,794]

^Butch is not a joke. It's been a slow process, but he's gradually been able to dig them out of the hole that Fulmer, Kiffin and Dooley put them in. Remember, Alabama got Tennessee at a PERFECT time. While you have to give them credit it would have been a much closer game if UT hadnt been completely beaten up.

I'd say Hugh Freeze.

[Randman5000 4,251]

McElwain. Imo

I put Gus Tied for fourth with Bielma and Jones behind Sumlin. 

 

[PowerOfDixieland 3,232]

Butch Jones is Woody Hayes waiting to happen.  Without the wins.  Old school stupid.

[Guest WarEagleSteve]

I think Gus has as much of an argument as anyone at this point. (He is, after all, the only guy other than Saban with a conference title). Look at his competition: 

Sumlin's teams start strong and limp to the finish. Until this year's team proves otherwise, that's what he is. We are what we repeatedly do, after all. 

Butch Jones is a great recruiter and his guys play hard for him but there's something to be said about a team that talented that can't get out of its own way. They've got injuries sure but there's a lot of questionable decision making going on on that sideline IMHO. 

Hugh Freeze is a good coach but a. the NCAA problems probably aren't going to go away anytime soon and b. Even last year's team (arguably his best) was maddeningly inconsistent (Beat Bama but lost by double digits to Memphis, got pantsed by Florida in the swamp, and gave up the most mind-bogglingly stupid 4th down conversion ever against Arky). 

McElwain's got potential. There's been enough weirdness out of his teams (last year's QB suspension, this year's injury bug) to really make a call yet but the Tennessee loss this year doesn't look good and next year is definitely put up or shut up time. 

I don't think anyone else in the conference right now is even worth mentioning if we're being honest. 

[mcgufcm 4,107]

It's Freeze, and I don't think it's all that close. To do what he's done at Ole Miss is bordering on unthinkable. Even if you think he's a cheater, Billy Brewer cheated at Ole Miss, and he didn't come close to this current run. His best three year stretch netted 23 wins and included a losing season. By comparison, Freeze has won 27 games in three years and taken the team to two New Year's Six bowls. That's unheard of at Ole Miss.

Freeze has posted four consecutive winning seasons (and very likely to make it five in a row this year). Eli Manning/David Cutcliffe are the only other guys to put up three consecutive winning seasons at Ole Miss since Ken Cooper from 1975-77. I kid you not.

Gus is winning at Auburn. Well, give him a cookie. Every Auburn coach since Barfield has either gone undefeated and/or won a conference title at Auburn. Freeze is producing basically unprecedented success at an otherwise terrible football program.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 hour ago, mcgufcm said:

Billy Brewer cheated at Ole Miss, and he didn't come close to this current run.

Did Billy Brewer cheat well enough to land a series of 5* players who could carry the team?

[AuGrad2004 100]

Here's my list.  As much as it pains me to say.  There's just that much difference between him and the rest right now.  

 

1. Saban

2. Saban

3. Saban

4-6.  Gus, Freeze, Sumlin  Any order you wish

5-8.  Jones, McElwain, Bielma Any order

9-14.  The rest

 

 

 

 

[triangletiger 1,599]

Ed Orgeron.

[msza 228]

Gus has won a divisional and conference title, which are two of the three main goals a coach has. He was awfully close to that third goal as well against FSU.

Here's another way to phrase this question: Would you trade our 2013 divisional and conference titles for a more competitive year last year and stronger finish to 2014 (keep in mind that mean we missed the NCG). I sure as hell wouldn't.

Gus is easily second best (another way to say 'most accomplished') until someone else wins the conference. No one else from the SECW has even won the division for Pete's sake.

 

[mcgufcm 4,107]

Again, that "most accomplished" thing presumes that everyone has equal opportunity available. It's not true. No matter how good Derek Mason is, he's not winning the SEC at Vandy. So, for me, it's kind of absurd to say no one else has won the West; therefore, Gus is better. Well, Gus is coaching at Auburn. Dan Mullen is coaching at MSU. The former has a history of winning and a better recruiting base. The latter is historically one of the worst programs in the Power 5 (MSU is 74th in terms of total wins... lower than Kentucky and Vandy). Holding them both to the same measuring stick is like saying my four-year old isn't big because she's only 44 inches tall. It's true. That's not very tall compared to a grown up, but that's huge compared to four-year old girls.

Given where they coach, I really don't think you can contest coherently that Freeze and Mullen are more accomplished their their peers in the SEC (excluding Saban, obviously).

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, mcgufcm said:

Given where they coach, I really don't think you can contest coherently that Freeze and Mullen are more accomplished their their peers in the SEC (excluding Saban, obviously).

I'll vote against Mullen just because this year is proving that he caught lightning in a bottle with Dak. To go from a #1 ranking in 2014 to the bottom of the barrel in 2016... without any injuries to contend with... is a major failure for a coach.  I think you could take it even further when you see how good Dak really is, based on his NFL play, and the fact that he couldn't take State to the SEC championship with that level of player is also a pretty big condemnation.

I vote against Freeze because it's now common knowledge that he played fast and loose with the rules to build his team. If you have to cheat to be good, then you get no credit.

[mcgufcm 4,107]

Ha, I'm not sure an Auburn fan wants to hold that standard given our history of major infractions (like, for example, the fact that Shug's 1957 team was on probation for paying players). To each his own though.

Personally, I think coaching is coaching, and what Freeze is doing hasn't been done in Oxford in a very, very long time, if ever.

Mullen is getting rightly bagged this year, but it doesn't erase what he did before and during Dak's tenure. This is his 8th year at MSU. He took over a program with one winning season in the eight prior years before he arrived. One winning season in eight years; overall record of 29-65 in that time. 36 games under .500. In the seven years under Mullen, the same program is 55-35 with one losing season; 20 games over .500. I mean, that's a crazy level of failure and an almost perfect turnaround. I think people underrate how bad a job that is.

[msza 228]

23 minutes ago, mcgufcm said:

Again, that "most accomplished" thing presumes that everyone has equal opportunity available. It's not true. No matter how good Derek Mason is, he's not winning the SEC at Vandy. So, for me, it's kind of absurd to say no one else has won the West; therefore, Gus is better. Well, Gus is coaching at Auburn. Dan Mullen is coaching at MSU. The former has a history of winning and a better recruiting base. The latter is historically one of the worst programs in the Power 5 (MSU is 74th in terms of total wins... lower than Kentucky and Vandy). Holding them both to the same measuring stick is like saying my four-year old isn't big because she's only 44 inches tall. It's true. That's not very tall compared to a grown up, but that's huge compared to four-year old girls.

Given where they coach, I really don't think you can contest coherently that Freeze and Mullen are more accomplished their their peers in the SEC (excluding Saban, obviously).

I think you have somewhat of a point, and perhaps another good measuring stick of success would be how much better a coach's win percentage is than the school's historical win percentage -- at least within the past 10-20 years. However, we do see good coaches turn nothing into something -- Bowden at FSU, Paterno at Penn St., What's-his-name at Miami, Peterson at Boise St., Meyer at Utah, Herman at Houston, etc.

So I don't think it's sufficient to say 'no past = no future' or to put an asterisk by a coach's name if he succeeds at a school with some history. Because, as we've seen with Alabama in the 20 years before Saban, coaches can fail at the elite schools as well. A good enough coach will find a way to win.

[mcgufcm 4,107]

Bill Snyder didn't win a division at KState until 1998, and he didn't get a conference championship until 2003. But he took one of the nation's worst program, made it relevant, and later won a title. It took 15 years to get the last piece of the puzzle because it's harder to win a conference title at KState (happened twice since WWII) than it is to win a national title at OU (happened seven times in the same time frame).

By the way, in case it's not clear, this is friendly discussion. This is a pure opinion question. I just kind of liked talking about it.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 hour ago, mcgufcm said:

Ha, I'm not sure an Auburn fan wants to hold that standard given our history of major infractions (like, for example, the fact that Shug's 1957 team was on probation for paying players). To each his own though.

Personally, I think coaching is coaching, and what Freeze is doing hasn't been done in Oxford in a very, very long time, if ever.

Mullen is getting rightly bagged this year, but it doesn't erase what he did before and during Dak's tenure. This is his 8th year at MSU. He took over a program with one winning season in the eight prior years before he arrived. One winning season in eight years; overall record of 29-65 in that time. 36 games under .500. In the seven years under Mullen, the same program is 55-35 with one losing season; 20 games over .500. I mean, that's a crazy level of failure and an almost perfect turnaround. I think people underrate how bad a job that is.

Seriously... you're going to go back to 1957?  Auburn is the only team in history to have had a full investigation by the NCAA and come out clean. Prior to that, you have the Eric Ramsey fiasco, and you don't want some of the old school fans around here to get started about how that was all trumped up. I know it's not popular opinion, but I firmly believe that Auburn is one of the cleaner programs in the country and by far the cleanest of the high level programs. I've personally spoken to Rich McGlynn and I know how hard Auburn works to play within the rules. Even the hint of impropriety gets squelched out quickly and thoroughly, to the point of erring on the side of being too conservative. 

I don't think coaching is coaching if you have to cheat. That's not playing on a level field. Freeze has a good offensive mind, and could probably be a great coach, but I lost all respect for him when it was proven that he either bought, or used questionable means to land most of his difference makers.

While I agree that Mississippi State has fared better under Mullen than several other coaches, I still don't think if you put him at LSU, for instance, he would suddenly be a world beater... though... LSU might actually have a solid QB for the first time in a long time.  That's really what I see Mullen as... a good QB coach.

[keesler 5,934]

1 hour ago, lionheartkc said:

I don't think coaching is coaching if you have to cheat. That's not playing on a level field. Freeze has a good offensive mind, and could probably be a great coach, but I lost all respect for him when it was proven that he either bought, or used questionable means to land most of his difference makers.

While I agree that Mississippi State has fared better under Mullen than several other coaches, I still don't think if you put him at LSU, for instance, he would suddenly be a world beater... though... LSU might actually have a solid QB for the first time in a long time.  That's really what I see Mullen as... a good QB coach.

I think good coaching is good coaching, period.  Can a coach develop his players?  Can he devise a scheme that showcases the strengths of this players?  Can he adjust when needed?

Mullen has done a great job at MSU, but he has had his own run-ins with the NCAA.  Aren't they currently on probation for recruiting violations?

 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

28 minutes ago, keesler said:

Mullen has done a great job at MSU, but he has had his own run-ins with the NCAA.  Aren't they currently on probation for recruiting violations?

I believe that ended in 2015.

[mcgufcm 4,107]

lionheart, you and I have a different standard of "proven." If you're talking about the prior notice of allegations (not proven because there still hasn't been a hearing), the most significant allegations centered around Houston Nutt's tenure. If you're talking about rumors of what the NCAA is currently investigating, those are rumors. They haven't even concluded the investigation, much less "proven" anything.

I know folks want to believe everything they hear about opposing schools, but allegations against Ole Miss have no more been "proven" than the mud slung at Auburn in 2010.