ESPN'S SEC West Preview

[McLoofus 35,182]

6 minutes ago, triangletiger said:

How did Missouri's strength of schedule compare with ours?

One of the reasons I mentioned earlier that Mizzoo is a more QB-friendly destination. Who wants to play in a division where bama's defense could be behind LSU's and *Mississippi State's*?

[DAG 33,997]

26 minutes ago, triangletiger said:

How did Missouri's strength of schedule compare with ours?

The funny thing is last year they played a pretty tough schedule. Unlike the cake schedule they have this year. Funny thing is Missouri actually did better in common opponents. Not made up emotions or agendas but complete facts.

beat Purdue and Tennessee 

Loss: Bama and UGA.

 

[aubaseball 2,627]

All this doesn’t matter.   Kelly Bryant isn’t going to be an NFL quarterback.   Just don’t see it.   

If JS had played like 2017 in 2018, the season would have turned out differently. 

 

 

 

[bigbird 60,569]

15 minutes ago, aubaseball said:

 

If JS had played like 2017 in 2018, the season would have turned out differently.

If the OL had played like 2017 in 2018, JS could/would have.

[DAG 33,997]

11 minutes ago, bigbird said:

If the OL had played like 2017 in 2018, JS could/would have.

That was a major factor in it. 

[DAG 33,997]

28 minutes ago, aubaseball said:

All this doesn’t matter.   Kelly Bryant isn’t going to be an NFL quarterback.   Just don’t see it.   

If JS had played like 2017 in 2018, the season would have turned out differently. 

 

 

 

Has KB even been on anybody's draft board?

[bigbird 60,569]

8 minutes ago, DAG said:

That was a major factor in it. 

I mean, would you rather have Braden in front of you or Horton playing from his butt

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,676]

I like what Missouri has done in the past few years in even making bad QBs look presentable. Between Franklin’s era and  Lock’s last season, their “lesser” QBs were still really decent. Auburn’s lesser QBs are usually horrible. You either get good or horrible. That volatility probably played a part too 

[oracle79 3,569]

6 hours ago, DAG said:

So let’s compare numbers then? No more just talking . Gus has Stidham and Kelly Bryant was with Dabo. Who got the most out of their player in 2017. No BSing. No emotions. Straight facts. 

Not sure what you're arguing here.  Stidham has ten times the QB talent that Bryant has as far as throwing/passing the football.  Bryant would be much more successful in Gus' offense because he's ten times the runner that Stidham is.  Bryant made the best choice he could if his goal is to play QB in the NFL.  Will he be drafted?  No idea, but I guarantee you he wouldn't have been drafted at QB if he came here.  I don't think he'll ever start a game at QB in the NFL, but he's maximizing his odds to do so by going to Missouri vs. coming to Auburn.  Dabo isn't a QB whisperer either, but he used the dudes he recruited to the best of their abilities and played the most talented player from Boyd, Watson, Bryant, to Lawrence.  Gus got the most out of Nick and Cam (but Cam would have been good under Coach Buttermaker or Coach Klein).  Gus actually improved Marshal's passing stats by a fraction in his 2nd year at the expense of offensive production, but hey, he proved his point that he could coach an athletic defensive back to improve his passing stats by calling more passing plays.  But, like I said, I'm not sure what you're arguing here.

[McLoofus 35,182]

56 minutes ago, oracle79 said:

Not sure what you're arguing here.  Stidham has ten times the QB talent that Bryant has as far as throwing/passing the football.  Bryant would be much more successful in Gus' offense because he's ten times the runner that Stidham is.  Bryant made the best choice he could if his goal is to play QB in the NFL.  Will he be drafted?  No idea, but I guarantee you he wouldn't have been drafted at QB if he came here.  I don't think he'll ever start a game at QB in the NFL, but he's maximizing his odds to do so by going to Missouri vs. coming to Auburn.  Dabo isn't a QB whisperer either, but he used the dudes he recruited to the best of their abilities and played the most talented player from Boyd, Watson, Bryant, to Lawrence.  Gus got the most out of Nick and Cam (but Cam would have been good under Coach Buttermaker or Coach Klein).  Gus actually improved Marshal's passing stats by a fraction in his 2nd year at the expense of offensive production, but hey, he proved his point that he could coach an athletic defensive back to improve his passing stats by calling more passing plays.  But, like I said, I'm not sure what you're arguing here.

I feel like Duke Williams had something to do with that improvement in 2014, too. Dude caught everything in his zip code that year. 

 

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

Ok here is my take on this..

First off you people who think we have no need to schedule big OOC games must be young or have short memories. Anyone old enough remembers what 2004 felt like... I have no quarrel with scheduling big time OOC games. I NEVER want another 2004 situation to EVER happen again. I also dont care about moving to the East. Yea regionally it makes no sense with us in the West and Missouri in the East, but we dont HAVE to complain about it and use the schedule as an excuse for mediocrity. Also anyone who has watched many things on college football this year know a LOT of people are complaining about Alabamas schedule. Well guess what guys... THEY ALSO PLAY IN THE SEC...and we dont have the equity in the media Alabama has... So as soon as we go cheap on our schedule and go undefeated it will be the first time 5 major universities go undefeated and we will end up getting left out of the CFP. Then us scheduling soft OOC games will come back to bite us in the backside. 

Now...as far as Bryant goes... 

Bryant says that he picked Missouri because the coaching he would get would help get him to the NFL. I mean he isnt wrong, going there will get him more prepared for the next level. However he referenced the coaching Drew Lock got while there... The problem with that thinking is that Locks numbers in 2017 is what really put him on the map. And that was under OC Josh Heupel. Locks numbers regressed significantly under Dooley. In 2017 under Heupel Lock passed for almost 4000 (3968) yards and 44 TDs with 10.2 YPA. In 2018 under Dooley he passed for around the samw yards (3498) but almost half the number of TDs (28) and 8.5 YPA. 

Lets not pretend Bryant will get the coaching that really put Lock on the map. 

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,676]

The SEC’s paradigm is severely higher than it was in 2004. That’s not even a fair comparison to make lol

 

not to mention opinions and feelings aside, Auburn would be playing a stronger schedule than in 2004, just off polls. They may have played a stronger one than OU, but they didn’t play 5 top 12 teams or whatever it is. As long as Auburn keeps playing top 4 UA and UGA, top 11 LSU and a top 20 MSU, they won’t need to play a top 9 Oregon or top 2 Clemson 

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,676]

They played an unranked WSU in 2013 and still finished with a top 10 SOS as I remember. Worked back then (with an arguably still weaker cast of annual opponents) 

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

9 minutes ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

They played an unranked WSU in 2013 and still finished with a top 10 SOS as I remember. Worked back then (with an arguably still weaker cast of annual opponents) 

Playing Wazzu isnt the same as playing Kent State/Georgia Southern/Utah State/and Arkansas State. Not by a LONG shot. There is nothing wrong with scheduling big name middle of the road opponents. Except it will be our luck that the second we schedule Illinois they would be top 5 by the time we get them. 

Im not saying we need to schedule top 10 teams but then again we havent exactly done that. Oregon was hot garbage when we scheduled them. Helfrich had run that team into the ground. Clemson wasnt a CFP team when we scheduled them. UDub hadnt been anything when we scheduled them either. But scheduling those kind of games just makes you better. Prior to Bruce Pearl Auburn basketball would always do real well before SEC play started. That was because they would schedule basically high school teams and lose out the rest of the schedule once conference play started. Now Bruce has us scheduling real OOC games. 

 

And 2004 absolutely is a valid comparison. Like i said many major media people have commented multiple times on Alabamas strength of schedule. They too play in the SEC. And if Bama is getting grief for their schedule, they would tear us apart for scheduling complete no ones as our OOC games. Its just one game. We can lose it, win out, and still make the CFP.

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,676]

Oregon had 1 sub playoff season and a couple middling seasons under Mark, I wouldn’t constitute that as enough to make scheduling them anything less than a top tier opponent. Clemson..I mean cmon lol. They were a top 6 program that was still winning 10 games a annually when we scheduled them for 2016. I’ll give you Washington. Scheduling tough OOC teams is just something you have to do in basketball, that’s far different. Auburn isn’t going to get worse because instead of playing a top 15 team the first game, they play a top 15 team somewhere else in September. And they’ll never need the SOS argument 

Alabama gets pooped on like that because they’re substantially better than 99% of the conference and even with playing ranked SEC teams, they look 100x better more often than not. How you look against a schedule plays into that whole “difficulty” thing. Outside of 2017, were rarely going to go out and bulldoze through the SEC gauntlet so we’re never going to get the “you played nobody” argument. 

 

Not to mention, we play three of the nationally respected SEC playoff teams, UA only plays one. It’s dishonest to compare those two situations either. Plus the SOS argument has proven to be worth absolutely nothing when it came time to measure Alabama’s worth 

[DAG 33,997]

16 hours ago, oracle79 said:

but some coaches actually adjust what they do, to maximize the skill set of the QB they have.

This is what I am arguing. You said some coaches maximize the skill set of QB they have. Then why don't you compare numbers.  Neither you or your buddy want to do that. Let's take into account both 2017 seasons and see which coach got the best out of their QB. Because the NFL is going to judge you on that. So, why do we keep running from that discussion. Can we not just have an objective QB a vs QB b stat line and see who everyone thinks got the most out of their prospect? We can go game by game if you like, because if you are going to make arguments then you are going to have to have data to back it up. Also, let's consider this. KB was a junior in 2017 and had time to sit and learn behind one of the most Polished QBs in Clemson's history. Dabo knows this guys skillset or at least should know it. There isn't a feeling out process needed.

 

9 hours ago, oracle79 said:

Stidham has ten times the QB talent that Bryant has as far as throwing/passing the football.

 

LOL. Okay? Drew Lock has ten times the throwing talent of Bryant. Trevor Lawrence has ten times the throwing talent of Bryant. What type of excuse is that? Why isn’t Bryant a much better passer after being at Clemson for two years behind Watson?  Which has been my other basis of argument on this thread. Just because Missouri had success with a guy who had offers from tOSU,. Texas and UWV, doesn't mean it is going to translate well with this guy, WHICH HAS BEEN A MAJOR TALKING POINT. He is not chopped liver. It does not surprise me that he went in the first 3 rounds. He was arguably the best QB ever to come out of Missouri high school and a top 100 nationally ranked recruit. The argument that he was drafted higher than the other guy and that should end the discussion is a very hollow and short sighted way of looking at things because a lot goes in to drafting. These GMs have been doing these for a long time. They know talent regardless of system and can separate the issue. Daniel Jones got drafted in the 1st round, I guess Duke would've been a better landing spot than AU too, right? Then you say, he will improve his draft position? POST 2017, where was KB on anyone's draft board? If Dabo maximized this guys talent, then what was his draft status at the QB position going into 2018?  

9 hours ago, oracle79 said:

but I guarantee you he wouldn't have been drafted at QB if he came here. 

How can you guarantee that? 

9 hours ago, oracle79 said:

Dabo isn't a QB whisperer either, but he used the dudes he recruited to the best of their abilities and played the most talented player from Boyd, Watson, Bryant, to Lawrence.

Well Tahj and Trevor were both 5 star QBs, so let's be consistent with our critiquing, they would have been good under anybody, correct?

Stats playing in at least 13 games. 3 out of the 4 QBs you named threw for over 3000 yards, and at least 20 TD passes in one season. These guys were very talented and produced in an offense that let them sling the rock.  S/O to Tahj for getting this ball rolling. Both him and Watson drafted. So what happened with KB?  FYI, 3 out of the four QBs also played multiple games as freshmen. 

 So again, let's compare numbers. Between Stidham and Bryant.  Your friend Mcloofus was willing to bring up his 2017 stats, why not do the same, since the NFL is all about making sure you can pass the ball.

9 hours ago, oracle79 said:

Bryant would be much more successful in Gus' offense because he's ten times the runner that Stidham is.

Thanks for saying what I originally said in this thread 

9 hours ago, oracle79 said:

but he's maximizing his odds to do so by going to Missouri vs. coming to Auburn. 

And that is fine. I have already acknowledged that this will either break him or make him. Missouri has a history of passing the ball at high volume, particularly Dooley, if you go back to his UT days.

20 hours ago, DAG said:

Jarrett Stidham skillset is not comparable in Auburn’s offense to that of a Kelly Bryant. Yes , Jarrett Stidham would’ve put up more Gaudy numbers Mizzou offense caters to that gun slinging mentality. That is not Auburn’s offense. So it is either going to do one of two things: it’s going to make him into a better passer or it is going to severely expose him. I am just interested to see how he will do , especially since he had okayish stats at Clemson with skill players galore.

I don't have any issue with that. I have an issue with some of the pot shots and just having talking points without any data to support it. A lot of you guys are talking like it straight facts when it is all opinion based lol. If you come here to AU, you aren't going to throw the ball a million times, even if you are a 5 star pocket passing QB and that is okay. We are a run oriented offense. You can still get to the NFL in this offense, especially if you are an athletic freak, The problem is I believe our offense will make KB into an impactful college QB. I am not so sure, he will be either at Missouri, off the basis that he came from a QB friendly offense, with LOT'S OF TALENT and could not muster up better passing stats. Why am I to believe all of a sudden he is going to do that at Missouri because Drew Lock did it? Derek Dooley wasn't the mastermind behind Drew Lock. Drew Lock was putting up high numbers before Dooley ever stepped foot at Missouri because Drew Lock can sling that rock. Drew Lock has never been particularly accurate though, which I find interesting, as completion percentage was a talking point for KB.  I will give Dooley credit on that. He finally got Lock's % greater than the 50s. Matter fact, name me a person under Derek Dooley tutelage  who has gotten drafted prior to Lock, since it was referenced this guy will get him better prepared than what he would get at AU?

There are two big things that KB referenced that he liked about Dooley:

1. He coached in the NFL and will bring in NFL concepts (I can respect that very much) - Which absolutely contradicts a point about KB potentially picking Missouri based on recent circumstances and successes. 

2. You have freedom in his offense and he allows the players to help gameplan (Gus is not doing this, LOL)

https://www.knoxnews.com/story/sports/college/university-of-tennessee/football/2019/07/15/missouri-football-kelly-bryant-derek-dooley-tennessee-ut-vols-sec-media-days/1736031001/

Neither of these proves playing for Dooley will help his draft Status out or make him a better passer.

[DAG 33,997]

7 hours ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

I like what Missouri has done in the past few years in even making bad QBs look presentable. Between Franklin’s era and  Lock’s last season, their “lesser” QBs were still really decent. Auburn’s lesser QBs are usually horrible. You either get good or horrible. That volatility probably played a part too 

Bad QBs?

James Franklin was a four star QB out of Texas - Undrafted

Drew Lock was a four Star QB - drafted. 

How are they lesser QBs? 

Nick Marshall and JF3 was the lowest rated QBs Gus recruited. 

I do agree that we do have a Jackal/Hyde situation though. 

[Gowebb11 9,337]

Good luck to KB at Mizzou.  In my humble opinion, Bo Nix has the best all round potential, QB acumen, and pedigree of any QB we’ve had in recent memory. Mentally and physically he seems to have it all. And JG has freak athleticism, and unlimited abilities. With that being the case, I’m glad we’re going with the freshmen, and not the one year option. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

4 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

Good luck to KB at Mizzou.  In my humble opinion, Bo Nix has the best all round potential, QB acumen, and pedigree of any QB we’ve had in recent memory. 

I don’t disagree about Nix’s QB acumen and pedigree.  I’m still not sold Gus will use his skillsets appropriately, however. He didn’t really adapt to Sean White or Jarret Stidham after all. 

With Malzahn calling the offense, and with Gatewood and his freakish athletic abilities and Nix to choose from, I think Gus picks the QB that can make things work without the advanced route trees that he’s uncomfortable using. Gus knows he’s in turbulent waters and doubles down on his philosophy. 

 

 

[DKW 86 7,429]

On 7/15/2019 at 10:48 AM, WalkingCarpet said:

Bill gets real close to the root of the issue but can't quite force himself to say it: Gus has to stop throwing winnable games. There was no reason to lose to Tennessee last year. None. There was no way we should have lost to LSU after being up two scores, at home, in the second half. I don't care how many NFLers Mississippi State had last year, it was embarrassing to not reach the endzone against them and lose that one too. It's one thing to let a game or two get away in year two, it's something much worse for this to keep happening in year six. Gus did GREAT to scoop the division in '13 and '17, but it's been painful to watch much of the time in the other years. 

That is the game that is haunting him right out of a job. Losing to that talent-less UT Team is unforgivable. If we played them this year, I would bet the farm on UT winning again. 

The whole season may come down to the OL. As bad as they played last year, they have to get at least some better. I dont expect much however. They did not improve much IF AT ALL over the season. Face it, OL was a huge issue last year. We werent even in some games. We had 2 drives against UGA. We werent even on the same field with bama. LSU? The OL just quit against LSU. We lost to UT because we couldnt be consistent against a woefully bad opponent. There were a few high points, but all in all, our OL was a huge disappointment all season. 

[triangletiger 1,599]

5 hours ago, DAG said:

Bad QBs?

James Franklin was a four star QB out of Texas - Undrafted

Drew Lock was a four Star QB - drafted. 

How are they lesser QBs? 

Nick Marshall and JF3 was the lowest rated QBs Gus recruited. 

I do agree that we do have a Jackal/Hyde situation though. 

It seems strange to use Mizzou QBs from 2013 as a data point for comparison when they've had a coaching change since then. 

 

On another (not really relevant) point, Maty Mauk could probably be considered a lesser QB.  

[DAG 33,997]

15 minutes ago, triangletiger said:

It seems strange to use Mizzou QBs from 2013 as a data point for comparison when they've had a coaching change since then. 

 

On another (not really relevant) point, Maty Mauk could probably be considered a lesser QB.  

Strange indeed. I forgot all about Maty but he also was a four star QB as well. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 hours ago, Gowebb11 said:

Good luck to KB at Mizzou.  In my humble opinion, Bo Nix has the best all round potential, QB acumen, and pedigree of any QB we’ve had in recent memory. Mentally and physically he seems to have it all. And JG has freak athleticism, and unlimited abilities. With that being the case, I’m glad we’re going with the freshmen, and not the one year option. 

I am, too. Maybe not for the same reasons. But it could be best for the future of the program if we don't use a band-aid this year. 

Also, folks keep forgetting that we already have a guy who is the same size as Bryant, is at least as fast as Bryant (my research has our guy faster, but it's close), was a significantly higher rated DT QB than Bryant out of high school, and who is older and presumably more mature than Bryant. Oh, and who has also already completed more passes for Auburn than Joey or Bo (or Bryant). He's merely missing a few years learning in the most successful program in the sport, a 12-win season, an ACC championship, and a playoff appearance as a starter. Or any starts at all. So there's that. 

 

[triangletiger 1,599]

12 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I am, too. Maybe not for the same reasons. But it could be best for the future of the program if we don't use a band-aid this year. 

Also, folks keep forgetting that we already have a guy who is the same size as Bryant, is at least as fast as Bryant (my research has our guy faster, but it's close), was a significantly higher rated DT QB than Bryant out of high school, and who is older and presumably more mature than Bryant. Oh, and who has also already completed more passes for Auburn than Joey or Bo (or Bryant). He's merely missing a few years learning in the most successful program in the sport, a 12-win season, an ACC championship, and a playoff appearance as a starter. Or any starts at all. So there's that. 

 

So, how do you think Auburn would fare if they played Clemson's schedule?  And how do you think Clemson would fare if they played Auburn's schedule? 

 

Clemson has recruited head and shoulders above most of their opponents; Auburn, not so much ( although we have recruited well, for the most part). 

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 minutes ago, triangletiger said:

So, how do you think Auburn would fare if they played Clemson's schedule?  And how do you think Clemson would fare if they played Auburn's schedule? 

Clemson has recruited head and shoulders above most of their opponents; Auburn, not so much ( although we have recruited well, for the most part). 

I think Auburn would fare worse than Clemson with Clemson's schedule and I think Clemson would fare better than Auburn with Auburn's schedule. Beyond that, I don't know.

If you're responding to my mention of Clemson being the best program in the sport, I would not have said that before their beatdown of bama in the title game. Even then I might not have planted that flag, if not for the fact that they beat them just 2 years before. And then there's this recruiting class they're building. Everything is clicking there. But I'm not married to the argument. 

If you're responding to my mention of Bryant's success there, it's mainly anecdotal. But there's a lot to be said for 1) experience and 2) tasting success.