Ukraine

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

1 hour ago, auburn41 said:

Did you think it was a big deal when the Clinton Campaign used a foreign agent to gather dirt on Trump, and then the Obama Administration used that info to start a Counter Intelligence investigation?

Did they offer a quid pro quo with American tax dollars and aid to said country?

IF Trump did that, and right now it's an IF, that's a vastly different conversation.

[homersapien 11,511]

17 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

America is great Brother Homer. Always has been. "Make Again" was a great campaign slogan.

 Even with hateful, stupid, and obviously ignorant post like the above people like me and @NolaAuTiger love you......can't say the same for some others. 

You snowflake hypocrites like to dish it out, but you can't take it.

I responded fairly to a "hateful, stupid and obviously ignorant" comment you made about me.  Deal with it.

[auburn41 492]

9 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Did they offer a quid pro quo with American tax dollars and aid to said country?

IF Trump did that, and right now it's and IF, that's a vastly different conversation.

No doubt that is different.  Still a pretty egregious situation (even you must admit) that had the Director of the freaking FBI referred for CRIMINAL PROSECUTION and his deputy fired for lying and the investigation is not even close to being over yet.  And then let's not forget the former VP of the US telling Ukraine that he was not going to give them money (a quid pro quo) unless they fired the prosecutor investigating his son.  Google it and you can hear the VP proudly telling the story.   I'm also hearing that the so called "Whistle Blower" had no first hand knowledge of the July phone call between Trump and Ukraine.  I guess Trump was correct when he said people were spying on him, still!!! 

[SaltyTiger 7,908]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

I responded fairly to a "hateful, stupid and obviously ignorant" comment you made about me.

Well I do apologize if I came off as hateful. It was said tongue in cheek. I should realize that you are a "lightweight" and have a tough time with some comments. 

[jj3jordan 2,078]

On 9/22/2019 at 2:10 PM, homersapien said:

 

Turns out the "incident" actually involved Biden. Ouch!

[TexasTiger 13,130]

1 hour ago, jj3jordan said:

Turns out the "incident" actually involved Biden. Ouch!

You guys are mindless bots. 🙄

[Tiger Sue 325]

On and on it goes. Another source says.......

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/source-says-whistleblower-didnt-have-firsthand-knowledge-of-trump-call-with-ukraine-president

And to the real extreme former Gov. Weld (D) of Mass. suggests Trump could face execution over the phone call. That's a  real sicko and it's sad to see our country wallowing in such hate.

 

[SaltyTiger 7,908]

5 hours ago, homersapien said:

BS. All I have posted are facts: 

1) There was a whistle blower report.  The Trump administration admits this.

2) It has not been turned over to Congress as the law requires, which is self-evident.

You MAGAs don't recognize facts when they are right in front of you.

 

 

Of course Brother Homer. I can understand what you are saying. 

Hate to see you get all worked over nothing again

[Tiger Sue 325]

I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time) but I think the Dems are going to regret big time for jumping on the can of worms re. Trump's conservation with the Ukraine Pres. I think, based on several thing unfolding, that Biden will be the big loser. I think he is toast and will not be the Dem.candidate in 2020. Actually I think that will make the Dems happy since they want someone more to the left like Warren. That's probably too much thinking on my part but time will tell.

[jj3jordan 2,078]

2 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

You guys are mindless bots. 🙄

Unfortunately there is a tape of Biden bribing extorting whatever to get the prosecutor fired who was coming after his son. So not mindless bots here chief.

[kevon67 2,368]

On 9/21/2019 at 1:36 PM, SaltyTiger said:

Why is it that every time you guys go to crying about impeaching the man a sentence like the above appears?

 And you wonder why we do not read 75% of your nonsense Brother Homer. 

95%

[TexasTiger 13,130]

33 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

Unfortunately there is a tape of Biden bribing extorting whatever to get the prosecutor fired who was coming after his son. So not mindless bots here chief.

Link?

Here’s a link to Trump telling others to lie and abuse their power.

[homersapien 11,511]

19 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Well I do apologize if I came off as hateful. It was said tongue in cheek. I should realize that you are a "lightweight" and have a tough time with some comments. 

Ah, the old "I was just kidding" excuse.   And you call me a lightweight?! 

You sound like Dwight Yoakum's character (Doyle) in the movie "Slingblade" - pathetic.

Don't be such a snowflake.  And be prepared.  When you hurl insults you just might get a response.

 

[AuCivilEng1 11,045]

15 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

You guys are mindless bots. 🙄

Have you noticed that they’ve started speaking exactly like Trump speaks and tweets? It’s interesting to watch.

[homersapien 11,511]

13 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Unfortunately there is a tape of Biden bribing extorting whatever to get the prosecutor fired who was coming after his son. So not mindless bots here chief.

Yeah, but do you know why?  It's because that prosecutor was not addressing corruption in Ukraine. He wanted to replace him with a prosecutor who would be tougher on corruption, not easier, which was consistent with U.S. policy.

Ironically, it's the exact same excuse Trump is using about why he withheld defense funds to Ukraine - corruption.  

(Well, except for the key difference that Trump appeared to be trying to extort Ukraine into helping him politically by investigating Biden's son.)

Hunter Biden served for nearly five years on the board of Burisma, a Ukrainian natural gas company, whose owner came under scrutiny by Ukrainian prosecutors for possible abuse of power and unlawful enrichment. Hunter Biden was not accused of any wrongdoing in the investigation. At the time that then-vice president Joe Biden sought the ouster of the top Ukrainian prosecutor, who Biden and other Western officials said was not sufficiently pursuing corruption cases, the investigation into Burisma was dormant, according to former Ukrainian and U.S. officials.....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-confirms-he-withheld-military-aid-from-ukraine-says-he-wants-other-countries-to-help-pay/2019/09/24/42bdf66c-ded2-11e9-8dc8-498eabc129a0_story.html

 

Of course, we can't know for certain if Trump offered such a quid pro quo to the president of Ukraine in his conversation without the transcript of the conversation, which Trump refuses to submit to Congress as the law requires.

So why doesn't he comply with the law and release the transcript?  After all, Trump claims the discussion was "perfect".  So why not release the transcript and prove it?

 

 

 

[jj3jordan 2,078]

12 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Link?

Here’s a link to Trump telling others to lie and abuse their power.

Link: All over TV and radio yesterday.  Let's review. Putin loves Trump and helped him win in 2016.  Trump tries to bribe Ukraine into helping him win in 2020. Ukraine and Russia hate each other to the brink of war. Why would Ukraine want what Russia wants? Borrow some common sense from somebody.

[TexasTiger 13,130]

2 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

Link: All over TV and radio yesterday.  Let's review. Putin loves Trump and helped him win in 2016.  Trump tries to bribe Ukraine into helping him win in 2020. Ukraine and Russia hate each other to the brink of war. Why would Ukraine want what Russia wants? Borrow some common sense from somebody.

You certainly have none to spare.

[jj3jordan 2,078]

1 minute ago, homersapien said:

Yeah, but do you know why?  It's because that prosecutor was not addressing corruption in Ukraine. He wanted to replace him with a prosecutor who would be tougher on corruption, not easier.

It's the exact same excuse Trump is using about why he withheld defense funds to Ukraine - corruption.  

(Well, except for the key difference that Trump appeared to be trying to extort Ukraine into helping him politically by investigating Biden's son.)

Hunter Biden served for nearly five years on the board of Burisma, a Ukrainian natural gas company, whose owner came under scrutiny by Ukrainian prosecutors for possible abuse of power and unlawful enrichment. Hunter Biden was not accused of any wrongdoing in the investigation. At the time that then-vice president Joe Biden sought the ouster of the top Ukrainian prosecutor, who Biden and other Western officials said was not sufficiently pursuing corruption cases, the investigation into Burisma was dormant, according to former Ukrainian and U.S. officials.....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-confirms-he-withheld-military-aid-from-ukraine-says-he-wants-other-countries-to-help-pay/2019/09/24/42bdf66c-ded2-11e9-8dc8-498eabc129a0_story.html

 

Of course, we can't know for certain if Trump offered such a quid pro quo to the president of Ukraine in his conversation without the transcript of the conversation, which Trump refuses to submit to Congress as the law requires.

So why doesn't he comply with the law and release the transcript?  After all, Trump claims the discussion was "perfect".  So why not release the transcript and prove it?

 

 

 

So Biden wanted Ukraine to fire the prosecutor who was going after his son, and replace him with another more aggressive prosecutor who would go after his son in a tougher manner.  Well that does sound like something Biden would do. He is dumb as a rock.

Part II. Except that Trump's son isn't making millions working for the corrupt company. So, no, not the same.

[jj3jordan 2,078]

1 minute ago, TexasTiger said:

You certainly have none to spare.

And there it is. Liberal response when unable to address the issue. No worries TT we all know that's as close as you get to admitting the truth.

[Tiger Sue 325]

12 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Link?

Here’s a link to Trump telling others to lie and abuse their power.

Looks like you forgot something while telling me my brain capacity was limited

[homersapien 11,511]

20 hours ago, auburn41 said:

No doubt that is different.  Still a pretty egregious situation (even you must admit) that had the Director of the freaking FBI referred for CRIMINAL PROSECUTION and his deputy fired for lying and the investigation is not even close to being over yet.  And then let's not forget the former VP of the US telling Ukraine that he was not going to give them money (a quid pro quo) unless they fired the prosecutor investigating his son.  Google it and you can hear the VP proudly telling the story.   I'm also hearing that the so called "Whistle Blower" had no first hand knowledge of the July phone call between Trump and Ukraine.  I guess Trump was correct when he said people were spying on him, still!!! 

No, that's not a quid pro quo.  That was an expression of U.S. foreign policy to  force Ukraine to replace their current prosecutor - Victor Shokin - because he was too soft on corruption, not because he was investigating Biden's son. 

In fact, at that time, the Burisma case was dormant and Ukranian officials had already said there was no evidence against Hunter Biden committing any wrong doing.

This accusation that Joe Biden was trying to leverage Shokin to stop investigating Burisma / Hunter Biden is just a bald faced lie:

 

Why Was Ukraine’s Top Prosecutor Fired? The Issue At The Heart Of The Dispute Gripping Washington

https://www.rferl.org/a/why-was-ukraine-top-prosecutor-fired-viktor-shokin/30181445.html

 

....Trump and his allies, including his personal lawyer, Rudolph Giuliani, the former mayor of New York, accuse Biden of using his position as vice president and point man on relations with Kyiv in 2016 to help Burisma -- a Ukrainian energy company that was paying Biden’s son Hunter, who was on its board of directors -- avoid damage from a criminal investigation.

They claim that Biden told Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko that the United States would withhold $1 billion in loan guarantees unless he fired Shokin, who had authority over a criminal investigation into Burisma......

.......But Ukrainian prosecutors and anti-corruption activists with knowledge of the matter argue that the timeline of developments in the Burisma case and Shokin’s stint as chief prosecutor simply does not fit the narrative being put forward by Trump and his allies.

Moreover, they say that Shokin himself was the biggest obstacle standing in the way of the investigation......

Question Of Pressure

However, there are two big problems with the narrative presented by Trump and Giuliani, according to activists in Ukraine and others.

For one thing, Ukrainian prosecutors and anti-corruption advocates who were pushing for an investigation into the dealings of Burisma and its owner, Mykola Zlochevskiy, said the probe had been dormant long before Biden leveled his demand.

“There was no pressure from anyone from the United States” to close the case against Zlochevskiy  (CEO of Burismo), Vitaliy Kasko, who was a deputy prosecutor-general under Shokin and is now first deputy prosecutor-general, told Bloomberg News in May. “It was shelved by Ukrainian prosecutors in 2014 and through 2015,” he added.

Activists say the case had been sabotaged by Shokin himself. As an example, they say two months before Hunter Biden joined Burisma’s board, British authorities had requested information from Shokin’s office as part of an investigation into alleged money laundering by Zlochevskiy. Shokin ignored them.

Kaleniuk and AntAC published a detailed timeline of events surrounding the Burisma case, an outline of evidence suggesting that three consecutive chief prosecutors of Ukraine -- first Shokin’s predecessor, then Shokin, and then his successor -- worked to bury it.

“Ironically, Joe Biden asked Shokin to leave because the prosecutor failed [to pursue] the Burisma investigation, not because Shokin was tough and active with this case,” Kaleniuk said.

Ukrainian prosecutors have described no evidence indicating that Biden sought to help his son by getting Shokin dismissed -- and have suggested that they have not discovered any such evidence.

But there is a long list of Western organizations, governments, and diplomats, as well as Ukrainian anti-corruption groups, that wanted to see Shokin fired.

They include the International Monetary Fund, the European Union, the U.S. government, foreign investors, and Ukrainian advocates of reform.

In a column published days after Shokin was fired in March 2016, Anders Aslund, a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council in Washington, wrote that his dismissal came as no surprise.

“The amazing thing is not that he was sacked but that it has taken so long,” Aslund said. “Petro Poroshenko appointed Shokin to the role in February 2015. From the outset, he stood out by causing great damage even to Ukraine’s substandard legal system.”

[homersapien 11,511]

24 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

Link: All over TV and radio yesterday.  Let's review. Putin loves Trump and helped him win in 2016.  Trump tries to bribe Ukraine into helping him win in 2020. Ukraine and Russia hate each other to the brink of war. Why would Ukraine want what Russia wants? Borrow some common sense from somebody.

Putin doesn't love Trump.  He loves the chaos that Trump has introduced into foreign policy which has weakened the U.S. and it's alliances.

Ukraine doesn't "want what Russia wants".  Ukraine wants the military and financial support the U.S. Congress allocated to them in order to defend themselves against Russia.

You are the one who needs to borrow - or buy - some common sense.

[Tiger Sue 325]

The DOJ now has a transcript of Biden's subject conversation which proves the above to be wrong. The follow up actions and money paper trail will in time show the corruption of Biden and his son with Ukraine and China. Wait and see.

[homersapien 11,511]

15 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Of course Brother Homer. I can understand what you are saying. 

Hate to see you get all worked over nothing again

And I hate to see you excuse Trump, who obviously places himself above the interests of the country. 

Love of our country and respect for the rule of law is not "nothing".

[homersapien 11,511]

13 hours ago, Tiger Sue said:

I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time) but I think the Dems are going to regret big time for jumping on the can of worms re. Trump's conservation with the Ukraine Pres. I think, based on several thing unfolding, that Biden will be the big loser. I think he is toast and will not be the Dem.candidate in 2020. Actually I think that will make the Dems happy since they want someone more to the left like Warren. That's probably too much thinking on my part but time will tell.

"Too much thinking on your part" is the last thing you need to worry about.