Biden's plan for Stimulus. Is this a good thing?

[McLoofus 35,182]

15 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Racist???  

I guess I'm just not as PC as you, bless your heart. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/07/02/people-color-are-protesting-heres-what-you-need-know-about-this-new-identity/

I'm chuckling. He wants so badly to catch you in something here but he's once again demonstrating his ongoing struggle with the written word. 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

36 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Racist???  

I guess I'm just not as PC as you, bless your heart. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/07/02/people-color-are-protesting-heres-what-you-need-know-about-this-new-identity/

You do realize that the article you linked isn’t even what you said? You said “colored person” and not “people of color.” 

Hey if you want to keep your racist sayings and use them and say I’m being PC, that’s fine with me. Times have changed........
 

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2014/03/30/295931070/the-journey-from-colored-to-minorities-to-people-of-color

 

https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/dahleen-glanton/ct-dahleen-glanton-colored-email-reading-list-20200304-utx7geiwm5hupa3t7w6xr3xqn4-story.html

[wdefromtx 3,159]

31 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I'm chuckling. He wants so badly to catch you in something here but he's once again demonstrating his ongoing struggle with the written word. 

If you want to say something to me you can to me instead of just making a snide comment to your BFF. 
 

But then again, you probably endorse what he said or use the term yourself sooooo.....

[I_M4_AU 7,853]

29 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

If you want to say something to me you can to me instead of just making a snide comment to your BFF. 
 

But then again, you probably endorse what he said or use the term yourself sooooo.....

He probably has you on ignore so he only sees what you write if someone quotes you.  Talk about an echo chamber. 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

Just now, I_M4_AU said:

He probably has you on ignore so he only sees what you write if someone quotes you.  Talk about an echo chamber. 

Gotcha, pretty pathetic in my opinion. Although, I should expect as much. He is one of the worst when it comes to their echo chamber and cult like mentality. 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

52 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

He probably has you on ignore so he only sees what you write if someone quotes you.  Talk about an echo chamber. 

Also, the sad thing about it all is that was just joking with him (homey) at first saying he was showing his age with what he said. Then it became clear he didn't know (or doesn't care) that it is considered offensive nowadays. Then tried to pass it off as something else....twice as a matter of fact. 

 

Let someone from the right or really just anybody with a differing view than theirs say what something similar and they will scream from the rooftop against it.

[Mims44 1,871]

4 hours ago, cole256 said:

Oh yeah. I receive lots of fan mail as you can probably imagine 😂 let me delete some of it

Best not delete me!

 

3 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

You won't get anywhere with him. He has his narrative and likes to shape other's words to fit it, to the point that it is outright denial of facts. 

 

Personally, help for the small businesses should just be based on the needs of the business to survive and not race, sex, etc. and not deciding you are going to prioritize based on the mentioned criteria before you even roll out your plan. Most of all the small businesses I have dealt with all faced the same hurdles regardless of their background while larger ones made away with money due to loopholes. 

 

 

Maybe I'm confused... but it didn't seem like he was saying 'screw the white man'. Seems more like a problem was identified somewhere that was keeping minority businesses from receiving help as often as small white businesses. And they are wanting to identify the stopgap and insure everyone is able to receive the help they need.

If they were, with no prior data from 2020 saying they only wanted to help minority businesses, then yeah... that would seem a bit racist. But they are privy to the problems of the lack of help minority businesses received in 2020. To me it seems like a good idea to attack that problem, now that you have statistical proof that the problem exists.

 

🤷‍♂️

[wdefromtx 3,159]

34 minutes ago, Mims44 said:

Best not delete me!

 

Maybe I'm confused... but it didn't seem like he was saying 'screw the white man'. Seems more like a problem was identified somewhere that was keeping minority businesses from receiving help as often as small white businesses. And they are wanting to identify the stopgap and insure everyone is able to receive the help they need.

If they were, with no prior data from 2020 saying they only wanted to help minority businesses, then yeah... that would seem a bit racist. But they are privy to the problems of the lack of help minority businesses received in 2020. To me it seems like a good idea to attack that problem, now that you have statistical proof that the problem exists.

 

🤷‍♂️

You make good points and I agree with you that if they have the data and see something that was preventing minority business from being able to get the help needed then that needs to be fixed. I think there were many issues with lots of small businesses trying to get their help. I think a problem with this aid is due largely with the banks as they were the middle man for a lot of the these programs, and if I recall there is/was incentive for them to cater to larger businesses as they make more money off those. They need to have a hard look at the banking practices as it pertains to discrimination. 

[shabby 1,958]

On 1/19/2021 at 1:57 PM, around4ever said:

$15 per hour minimum wage will raise unemployment numbers because small to medium businesses won’t be able to afford to pay that.  $15 per hour wage will increase the cost of living for everybody, including the people making $15 per hour.  I don’t see it helping the economy at all.  A more beneficial approach would be to train minimum wage workers in a trade that pays much more than minimum wage. 

the problem with this approach as reason to not increase minimum wage is the fact that these current sub minimum wage jobs will still require workers. Someone will have to work them.  There will be a permanent class of people working forty hours a week and living in poverty. Also, historically, there has been minimal correlation between minimum wage increases and unemployment rates. 

[around4ever 4,139]

11 minutes ago, shabby said:

the problem with this approach as reason to not increase minimum wage is the fact that these current sub minimum wage jobs will still require workers. Someone will have to work them.  There will be a permanent class of people working forty hours a week and living in poverty. Also, historically, there has been minimal correlation between minimum wage increases and unemployment rates. 

This is true but has minimum wage ever been increased by more than double?  

[shabby 1,958]

3 hours ago, around4ever said:

This is true but has minimum wage ever been increased by more than double?  

Seems to me that it will be increased incrementally over several years like the last one. Also, the fact that  the minimum wage accounting for inflation is lower than its ever been set for since its inception would mean historically businesses have paid close to 15 dollars an hours in today's value.  15 dollars isn't a tremendous leap from what the minimum wage should have been... also Doubling the minimum wage isn't what will actually be occurring. Very few businesses pay the $7.25 an hour. Most are already paying 10 to 12 an hour. 

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

On 1/25/2021 at 7:02 PM, wdefromtx said:

I think a problem with this aid is due largely with the banks as they were the middle man for a lot of the these programs,

And it was from my understanding. A frustrating thing for many regardless of race, gender owed.....Biden just pandering with his rhetoric. The process seems fairly straight forward as written. Be interesting to see what changes.

[homersapien 11,382]

12 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

And it was from my understanding. A frustrating thing for many regardless of race, gender owed.....Biden just pandering with his rhetoric. The process seems fairly straight forward as written. Be interesting to see what changes.

If addressing the needs of a group who have been disproportionately affected by the pandemic - or any other natural disaster - is "pandering" well,  I suppose Biden is guilty.  Personally, I think it's an appropriate role for our president. Christian even.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/05/05/financial-and-health-impacts-of-covid-19-vary-widely-by-race-and-ethnicity/

 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

44 minutes ago, homersapien said:

If addressing the needs of a group who have been disproportionately affected by the pandemic - or any other natural disaster - is "pandering" well,  I suppose Biden is guilty.  Personally, I think it's an appropriate role for our president. Christian even.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/05/05/financial-and-health-impacts-of-covid-19-vary-widely-by-race-and-ethnicity/

 

According this this research, Hispanics were hit disproportionately harder than whites and blacks. Whites and blacks were pretty similar when it comes to job losses and pay cuts. Also, according to this Hispanics and whites are worried the most about being able to pay the bills for the month with the virus. 

 

This research doesn't break down which small businesses were hit the hardest. So this disproportion of Hispanics probably included people who worked for companies that were either black or white owned. So when it comes to helping small businesses, there needs to help all across the board. 

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

49 minutes ago, homersapien said:

If addressing the needs of a group who have been disproportionately affected by the pandemic - or any other natural disaster - is "pandering" well,  I suppose Biden is guilty.  Personally, I think it's an appropriate role for our president. Christian even.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/05/05/financial-and-health-impacts-of-covid-19-vary-widely-by-race-and-ethnicity/

 

I said it was frustrating regardless of race, gender.....not denying anything about proportions. Good for Biden if he can ease the access. I have not seen the plan. Please post if you have. I assume “Christian even” to be a bit of your snark. Sorry if I am wrong.

[homersapien 11,382]

4 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

According this this research, Hispanics were hit disproportionately harder than whites and blacks. Whites and blacks were pretty similar when it comes to job losses and pay cuts. Also, according to this Hispanics and whites are worried the most about being able to pay the bills for the month with the virus. 

 

This research doesn't break down which small businesses were hit the hardest. So this disproportion of Hispanics probably included people who worked for companies that were either black or white owned. So when it comes to helping small businesses, there needs to help all across the board. 

Saying you are going to help the most affected or worse off doesn't not mean you plan to ignore everyone else.

As for the fundamental fact the pandemic has affected "colored" businesses more than "white" businesses:

 

Fed Report: Minority-Owned Businesses Hurt More by Pandemic

.......Citing a paper by the National Bureau of Economic Research, the report says the number of active self-employed Black business owners decreased by 41% between February and April, while their Latino and Asian counterparts saw drops of 32% and 26%, respectively. White self-employed workers saw a 17% drop in activity.

Meanwhile, Black-owned businesses are seeing their cash reserves down by 26% from last year. Similarly, Asian-owned businesses saw cash reserves fall 20%. The median decline for all small businesses was 5%......

https://businessjournaldaily.com/fed-report-minority-owned-businesses-hurt-more-by-pandemic/

 

Why some black-owned U.S. businesses are hardest hit by coronavirus shutdowns

.....The number of black businesses owners in the United States dropped by 41% between February and April to 640,000, compared to a 17% drop in the number of white business owners, Fairlie’s analysis shows.....

.....U.S. small businesses are where U.S. jobs are created, Federal Reserve chairman Jerome Powell said during congressional testimony on Tuesday, and any wave of insolvencies would weigh on the economy for years. “That’s all the more so true of minority businesses because of the important role they play in our economy and in their communities,” he said.

Black business owners are under-represented, making up about 7% of the 15 million small business owners who were working in February before the coronavirus pandemic hit, compared to more than 13% of the U.S. population in 2019, Census data (here) show.

Black-owned businesses also had fewer resources to fall back on when the pandemic struck; some 21% were financially "distressed" at the end of 2019 based on their profitability, credit score and earnings, compared to just 5% of white-owned businesses, according to a Federal Reserve survey (here)........

.......Minority-owned businesses were less likely to borrow from banks, with only 23% of black-owned businesses having turned to a bank for a loan in the last five years, compared to 46% of white-owned businesses, the survey showed.

Long-standing wealth disparities leave black entrepreneurs with fewer funds to fall back on during the downturn. The typical black family had a net worth of $17,150 in 2016, a tenth of the $171,000 held by white families, according to the Brookings Institution (here).

“That’s just not enough money to survive a pandemic when you’re trying to run a business and you have to pay rent, maybe you’re renting equipment,” said Fairlie. “You have a lot of costs that don’t just stop during a pandemic.”......

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-economy-blackbusiness/why-some-black-owned-u-s-businesses-are-hardest-hit-by-coronavirus-shutdowns-idUSKBN23N34A

 

More than half of Black-owned businesses may not survive COVID-19

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/07/black-owned-businesses-may-not-survive-covid-19/

 

Black-Owned Businesses Hit Especially Hard by Coronavirus Pandemic, Study Finds

Federal Reserve report cites limited reach of Paycheck Protection Program, weaker ties with banks

https://www.wsj.com/articles/black-owned-businesses-hit-especially-hard-by-coronavirus-pandemic-study-finds-11596558754

 

Why black-owned businesses were hit the hardest by the pandemic

https://fortune.com/2020/06/19/why-black-owned-businesses-were-hit-the-hardest-by-the-pandemic/

 

An Uphill Battle: COVID-19’s Outsized Toll on Minority-Owned Firms

https://www.clevelandfed.org/newsroom-and-events/publications/community-development-briefs/db-20201008-misera-report.aspx

 

etc......

 

 

[homersapien 11,382]

4 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

I said it was frustrating regardless of race, gender.....not denying anything about proportions. Good for Biden if he can ease the access. I have not seen the plan. Please post if you have. I assume “Christian even” to be a bit of your snark. Sorry if I am wrong.

Well, I assumed the term "pandering" was a snark, and you were applying it to a Christian, thus my point.

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

7 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Well, I assumed the term "pandering" was a snark, and you were applying it to a Christian, thus my point.

I was applying it to the political rhetoric in Biden. Christian or whatever i do not know. Did you find a plan on the details? 

[AuburnNTexas 7,150]

I don't think anybody can be against helping small businesses just like nobody was against free money stimulus checks. My problem is we have been lazy in how we did these things. Why should people who did not lose their job or take a pay cut because of less hours get a stimulus check. I didn't complain when I got one but the reality is my financial situation did not change because of the pandemic.  

Help should be targeted to where it is needed the most. If you have a small business that was not impacted by the pandemic and you were not struggling why should you get help same on stimulus checks. If help is targeted to those most in need you can give more to that group of people. 

Then you have the people in the Democratic party who want a stimulus check every month without even knowing if all the people you are sending it to need it. I might agree with regular stimulus checks to people like cooks, waiters, waitresses, bar tenders and others who have lost all or part of their income. I approved of Federal government adding to unemployment benefits, I approve of no pay back loans to small businesses to allow business to pay their employees rather then shutting down.

I am 69 I won't be the one behind the 8 ball when all the excess  borrowing has to be paid for but I feel for my kids and grandkids. With targeted spending we could have provided more help to those who needed it and not expanded the deficit as much as we have and continue to do.

The first round of stimulus checks and help for businesses had to be done quickly we couldn't wait. I can understand why it was done as blanket but then Congress had time to plan a logical path on how to help in need but both parties argued about how much but not best way to spend it to get most bang for your buck.

[AUwent 3,754]

Hm. I hope it's enough. Remember the 2009 ARRA?

In any case, I hope the stimulus that has been given during this crisis serves as a "gateway drug" for people to be open to more social democratic policies. (I do not consider myself a socialist--I am for what they have in Canada, European nations, Australia/NZ, and Japan, which are not socialist countries!)

[McLoofus 35,182]

On 1/29/2021 at 4:10 PM, AuburnNTexas said:

I don't think anybody can be against helping small businesses just like nobody was against free money stimulus checks. My problem is we have been lazy in how we did these things. Why should people who did not lose their job or take a pay cut because of less hours get a stimulus check. I didn't complain when I got one but the reality is my financial situation did not change because of the pandemic.  

Help should be targeted to where it is needed the most. If you have a small business that was not impacted by the pandemic and you were not struggling why should you get help same on stimulus checks. If help is targeted to those most in need you can give more to that group of people. 

Then you have the people in the Democratic party who want a stimulus check every month without even knowing if all the people you are sending it to need it. I might agree with regular stimulus checks to people like cooks, waiters, waitresses, bar tenders and others who have lost all or part of their income. I approved of Federal government adding to unemployment benefits, I approve of no pay back loans to small businesses to allow business to pay their employees rather then shutting down.

I am 69 I won't be the one behind the 8 ball when all the excess  borrowing has to be paid for but I feel for my kids and grandkids. With targeted spending we could have provided more help to those who needed it and not expanded the deficit as much as we have and continue to do.

The first round of stimulus checks and help for businesses had to be done quickly we couldn't wait. I can understand why it was done as blanket but then Congress had time to plan a logical path on how to help in need but both parties argued about how much but not best way to spend it to get most bang for your buck.

Well, you answered your question by using the word "stimulus" instead of "relief". Cooks, waiters, waitresses, bartenders and others need relief. But their employers also need people spending money on more than just rent and utilities.

Unfortunately, a major caveat to that is that under current circumstances a lot of that money is just going to Jeff Bezos or credit card companies. But still, true to trickle down theory, you and I get checks so that we'll redistribute it to retailers.