Miscellaneous basketball discussions

[cole256 17,084]

I've really been enjoying talking basketball lately so I thought why not make a thread where people could talk randomly about things or ask questions that may not be directly related to a particular game or something like that to go in that particular thread but it's still a good question or comment nevertheless. 

There may not be any participation at all but just in case I'm letting people know that I'd be down to talk about anything

[aubearcat 2,137]

Okay, so, bird I and had a brief talk about Cardwell. He reminds me a lot of Tristan Thompson and bird agreed. What are your thoughts on the comparison?

Edited January 18, 2021 by aubearcat

[augolf1716 21,209]

5 hours ago, aubearcat said:

bird I and had a brief talk about Cardwell

That was your first mistake

[AuburnNTexas 7,153]

Cardwell is interesting he has a big body and is not afraid to use it. Lot of hustle and a lot of enthusiasm.  Coach has to channel his energy so he doesn't get into foul trouble and they need to develop his post game. He is very athletic for his size he runs well he seems to have strong hands if he could develop a drop step in the Post and a turn around jump shot with the other players around him we would have a complete basketball team. 

In todays game having a true old style Center is a luxury and most teams don't have the personnel to play against the old style Centers. He doesn't have to be dominant 8-10 points a game. 8 boards, a couple of blocked shots, sets big screens, and passes out of the double team to the open shooter. This year work on channeling his energy during the offseason work on his post game it will take time.

Edited January 19, 2021 by AuburnNTexas

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,674]

I think if you can get out of this season retaining Cooper, Powell and (very very likely) Thor, then having Flanagan in go in the late lottery, that's probably the both most realistic and kinda most optimistic scenario. 

I mean this without any spite or selfishness, but the NCAA investigation on top of Powell's concussion (again, not meaning this to sound bad), probably prevented us from having the big 3 from this season seriously be in a position to go. I think Powell might've come back to earth anyway, but he would've probably had an insane statline playing aside Cooper for a month and a half. Thor has looked like a fringe first round guy in his time with Sharife. 

Not having that green light to create might've actually hampered Flanagan's stock though. At the rate he's going, I don't see how we convince him to return, esp with Auburn's staff generally pushing guys out if they get good projections. 

[slyinsocal 831]

14 hours ago, aubearcat said:

Okay, so, bird I and had a brief talk about Cardwell. He reminds me a lot of Tristan Thompson and bird agreed. What are your thoughts on the comparison?

Dennis Rodman in terms of enthusiasm, endless motor, disruptiveness. I'd hate for Cardwell to guard me or him meeting me at the rim. But I'm 5'10"....

[Rednilla 5,391]

3 hours ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

Not having that green light to create might've actually hampered Flanagan's stock though. At the rate he's going, I don't see how we convince him to return, esp with Auburn's staff generally pushing guys out if they get good projections. 

Uh.....huh? Am I crazy, or does the notion that Flanigan would actually get picked before Coop or Thor seem laughable? Don't get me wrong, I love Allen, and I get that he's more physically ready for the pros than either of the aforementioned freshmen, but I haven't seen anything about him that screams NBA star to me. I certainly hope he makes it to that league, but there are a lot of good college players who barely sniff the NBA.

Then again, I don't know basketball nearly as well as football or baseball, so maybe I'm just not seeing it.

[aubearcat 2,137]

5 hours ago, slyinsocal said:

Dennis Rodman in terms of enthusiasm, endless motor, disruptiveness. I'd hate for Cardwell to guard me or him meeting me at the rim. But I'm 5'10"....

If I’m going with a big from that era, around the ‘80s, I might go with a comparison to Moses Malone. 

[AuburnNTexas 7,153]

55 minutes ago, aubearcat said:

If I’m going with a big from that era, around the ‘80s, I might go with a comparison to Moses Malone. 

I am more a Rodman comparison then Malone as Malone had a post game that Cardwell does not at this time.

[aubearcat 2,137]

1 minute ago, AuburnNTexas said:

I am more a Rodman comparison then Malone as Malone had a post game that Cardwell does not at this time.

I’m more referring to body build and rebounding. Cardwell being in his first season of college ball may be able to develop a really nasty post presence with more experience. I’m definitely not saying he’s HOF Malone but maybe a first year of college Malone. I definitely think his body is more comparable to Malone than Rodman. 

[AUBwins 10,075]

While we need Elite talent to bring in more elite talent to compete, I do not want to end up like Kentucky that signs a new starting 5 every year.  You need glue guys with experience to win in tourney. So far we've had a good balance.  I hope this core comes back next year. 

[steeleagle 2,945]

8 hours ago, slyinsocal said:

Dennis Rodman in terms of enthusiasm, endless motor, disruptiveness. I'd hate for Cardwell to guard me or him meeting me at the rim. But I'm 5'10"....

No way. Rodman was a jack rabbit freak when it came to rebounding and speed up and down the court. 

Cardwell is no where near that. 

Rodman played mean. Cardwell seems to have a happy go lucky personality. Always smiling...

[Rednilla 5,391]

1 minute ago, steeleagle said:

Rodman played mean. Cardwell seems to have a happy go lucky personality. Always smiling...

That's exactly how I feel about it. The 90s Bulls are about the only NBA team I've ever watched at all, and when I first saw the comparison between Cardwell and Rodman, I didn't take the time to figure out how to explain that it's different, but that's spot on. I actually like Cardwell.

[AuburnNTexas 7,153]

3 hours ago, aubearcat said:

I’m more referring to body build and rebounding. Cardwell being in his first season of college ball may be able to develop a really nasty post presence with more experience. I’m definitely not saying he’s HOF Malone but maybe a first year of college Malone. I definitely think his body is more comparable to Malone than Rodman. 

Body I agree.

[slyinsocal 831]

11 minutes ago, Rednilla said:

That's exactly how I feel about it. The 90s Bulls are about the only NBA team I've ever watched at all, and when I first saw the comparison between Cardwell and Rodman, I didn't take the time to figure out how to explain that it's different, but that's spot on. I actually like Cardwell.

 

16 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

No way. Rodman was a jack rabbit freak when it came to rebounding and speed up and down the court. 

Cardwell is no where near that. 

Rodman played mean. Cardwell seems to have a happy go lucky personality. Always smiling...

No problem. Just stirring the conversation. Definitely not a Rodman clone. The Pistons epitomized playing with a mean streak, to which Rodman fit to a T. Another player that came to mind is Yoakim Noah. Disruptive, not much offense, but a good passer/facilitator/screener/unselfish. I've seen Rodman, Noah, and Draymond Green smile. Not because they were happy, but because they enjoyed getting under the other team's skin. Cardwell is a true freshman and will find his own style.

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,674]

7 hours ago, Rednilla said:

Uh.....huh? Am I crazy, or does the notion that Flanigan would actually get picked before Coop or Thor seem laughable? Don't get me wrong, I love Allen, and I get that he's more physically ready for the pros than either of the aforementioned freshmen, but I haven't seen anything about him that screams NBA star to me. I certainly hope he makes it to that league, but there are a lot of good college players who barely sniff the NBA.

Then again, I don't know basketball nearly as well as football or baseball, so maybe I'm just not seeing it.

28th in an ESPN mock for the 22 draft made in December, NBADraft.net had him 16th in THIS draft in an earlier write up. Your logic towards the end in part answers your own qualm. Cooper is a NBA talent in a non NBA frame, with a shot that also doesn’t match what is required of smaller guards. He needs to show some things to overcome that on a NBA level 

Flan however, many of the things he has shown this season, you typically don’t get out of a 3 and D dude (although the position is evolving). He has a real ability to shoot off the dribble. He’s shown SOME ability to be a facilitator. Without rambling more, his game currently appears to be more diverse than what is asked of his archetype, and that archetype is incredibly valuable, even if it’s perceived you’re raw offensively (e.g, Okoro, who was also thought of as a transcendent defender) 

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,674]

To summarize most of my previous posts, Flan is the closest to his likely ceiling out of the 4 current prospects, and that’s why I could see him going fairly early, if things keep going as they have. I think Thor would have a massive range of projections if he left this season, Coop would be around that 9-16 range imo 

[Rednilla 5,391]

4 minutes ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

Without rambling more, his game currently appears to be more diverse than what is asked of his archetype, and that archetype is incredibly valuable, even if it’s perceived you’re raw offensively (e.g, Okoro, who was also thought of as a transcendent defender) 

If you say so. He hasn't impressed me as being near where Okoro was defensively last season. But again, I really don't know much about the ins and outs of basketball.

Seriously, I used to think I knew something about it...then I played in the Seniors vs. Faculty basketball game in high school, and my friend Marcus educated me a little bit on how to play post defense. I got an idea that day about how much I really didn't know. LOL.

As to Flanigan, I'd hate to see him go from the standpoint of how special we can be next season with him...but if he's projected to get drafted, he might be wise to go on after this season. And of course, putting another guy in the draft, especially one who probably wasn't projected there by anybody who matters coming out of high school, looks great for Auburn.

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,674]

Last one and I’m done 

the next few drafts are going to be all about transcendent diverse wings (Kumingas, Emonis, Jalen Greens), which is a theme that both hurts Thor and helps Sharife when we’re talking about declaring early. Cooper is gonna be the best facilitator you can draft for a minute. The past handful of drafts have had a ton of those, but for those few who have missed out (Knicks (!!), Pistons, Golden State), they might whisper some pretty strong sweet nothings in his ear. There’s probably not a ton of demand in the first 10 picks for his position, but there’s even far less supply 

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,674]

1 minute ago, Rednilla said:

If you say so. He hasn't impressed me as being near where Okoro was defensively last season. But again, I really don't know much about the ins and outs of basketball.

Seriously, I used to think I knew something about it...then I played in the Seniors vs. Faculty basketball game in high school, and my friend Marcus educated me a little bit on how to play post defense. I got an idea that day about how much I really didn't know. LOL.

As to Flanigan, I'd hate to see him go from the standpoint of how special we can be next season with him...but if he's projected to get drafted, he might be wise to go on after this season. And of course, putting another guy in the draft, especially one who probably wasn't projected there by anybody who matters coming out of high school, looks great for Auburn.

Trust me I’m not close to knowledgeable and I don’t want to sound like an expert. 
hes about 70% of the defender I think okoro was. Maybe 70. But that’s honest to God probably one of the areas he could still grow. Like with the A&M game where he bit on a fake and the guy won the game on that shot. He can improve on the mental aspect. Okoro being in like the 95th or 99th percentile as an iso defender. Things like that you can’t really replicate. There’s trade offs both ways 

The underlying theme to everything I’ve said is distance to ceiling. Flan could come back, but how many things could he show with: 

1. Having the ball in his hands less 

2. Not being able to get to his preferred spots as much (preference is going to be given to the Thor’s and Jabaris) 

Maybe having better defenders around him makes his job easier. But if he’s already getting drafted because of his 3 and D...it wouldn’t make sense to me to waste another season displaying what you can already do 

[cole256 17,084]

On 1/18/2021 at 11:23 AM, aubearcat said:

Okay, so, bird I and had a brief talk about Cardwell. He reminds me a lot of Tristan Thompson and bird agreed. What are your thoughts on the comparison?

I usually try to steer from comparing to NBA players because something can look similar but the skill gap can be so big that just because to the naked eye it may appear similar it's not even close.....my example is the great team with Harper, chuma, and Brown. You may not remember but I have a bunch of people who don't like me right now as we speak because some wanted to make Brown be all American type great and I disagreed. Then they were down on chuma because he wasn't averaging a high double double. You have a bunch of people who get so emotionally tied they can't differentiate who's really the elite talent.

I think the best example was many that compared Harper to Steph Curry. They both are PG, they both like to shoot jump shots......But Steph is so much more skilled at it that you really can't compare. 

I say that to say I've seen Rodman and Malone names used....these are legends if anybody plays a little like them they are first round draft picks. I can see your Tristan comparison if we're talking about him now in the NBA. College and early NBA Tristan I'd say no Tristan is way way more athletic. 

Body type he and athleticism he reminds me of Wayne Simien that played for Kansas. Or Sean May that played for North Carolina, but May was much more skilled offensively. 

[cole256 17,084]

As of right now Flannigan is a higher prospect than the other guys mentioned. It doesn't have to stay that way of course

[AUnCullman 601]

What do you guys think of SC's defense? May have been mentioned before so apologies if it has already been mentioned. Here is what I'm talking about:

Sometimes he is late in the transition from Offense to Defense. Sometimes he is a bit behind the motion guy he is guarding. AM I wrong on this?

The reason I ask is 2 parts:

1) Is it just a learning curve since the game is much faster and athletic than HS ball?

2) Is it the fact that he is trying to conserve energy where he can since we are thin at PG position and he feels he needs to be out there as much as possible?

3) AUnCullman needs new glasses???

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,674]

25 minutes ago, AUnCullman said:

AUnCullman needs new glasses???

I can’t really opine on defense too much, so I won’t, but a lot of Cooper’s issues on that end seem to be off the ball things, like you’ve mentioned. He’ll lose a guy in transition, or they’ll play zone and his guy will just slip to the rim. That sounds like more of a mental/lack of understanding thing to me, but I’ll leave it to the bigger brains to break down 

[AuburnNTexas 7,153]

3 hours ago, AUnCullman said:

What do you guys think of SC's defense? May have been mentioned before so apologies if it has already been mentioned. Here is what I'm talking about:

Sometimes he is late in the transition from Offense to Defense. Sometimes he is a bit behind the motion guy he is guarding. AM I wrong on this?

The reason I ask is 2 parts:

1) Is it just a learning curve since the game is much faster and athletic than HS ball?

2) Is it the fact that he is trying to conserve energy where he can since we are thin at PG position and he feels he needs to be out there as much as possible?

3) AUnCullman needs new glasses???

As a driving PG he will be late on transition from Offense to Defense it is the other guards job to get back on D when he drives.  He is not physically strong enough to stop a bigger guard from backing him down but luckily we have a lot of shot blockers who help him there. He at times can be tough on ball handlers out front he has quick feet and hands but he is not consistent with that. At times he gets lazy and beaten out front and PG goes right by him. All players play defense at different levels during the game. Watch Flanagan he almost always plays good defense but at certain points in the game he decides it is time to go to his hard core Defense you watch him get lower and just get a look in his eye, so yes there is some conserving of energy as long when not going full bore Defense you are still playing solid aware defense.

Look how fast Pearl will pull a player for being lazy and not rotating or finding to a three point shooter.  Cooper's speed and quickness are assets on Defense when used properly his size both height and strength at this times are weaknesses. S&C whether here or in the Pro's can help with the strength height is what it is. D and lack of a consistent outside shot especially since his outside shot is not a quick release are why I think Cooper will be here next year.  I am not sure about Flanagan but if he does get advice from NBA that he is a late 1st round or early 2nd round he should go. Hopefully they will have a combine this year where they can get a true appraisal from NBA before making a decision.