Atlanta Shootings...

[I_M4_AU 7,915]

1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

The same Right that eagerly embraced Sidney Powell's fairy tales? 

A straw man argument, but you know that.  The conservatives that *embraced* Powell’s arguments are not like the conservatives that like a factual conversation.  Of course, the liberal media jumped on white supremest in Atlanta and Boulder when neither were true.

The liberal media is just awful. 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

52 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

A straw man argument, but you know that.  The conservatives that *embraced* Powell’s arguments are not like the conservatives that like a factual conversation.  Of course, the liberal media jumped on white supremest in Atlanta and Boulder when neither were true.

The liberal media is just awful. 

I would say some liberal media is just awful, but since the left likes to lump all conservatives together I’m just gonna go with what you said!! lol 

[CoffeeTiger 5,153]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

  The conservatives that *embraced* Powell’s arguments 

so...the vast majority of the Republican Party? 

Quote

are not like the conservatives that like a factual conversation. 

Now I do completely agree there are some  genuine Conservatives out there who are still interested in ideas, solutions, and reasoned positions. They are unfortunately not in control of nor have much influence in the larger American Conservative movement at the moment. Hopefully that may change one day. 

 

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Of course, the liberal media jumped on white supremest in Atlanta and Boulder when neither were true.

Well like I've said, I'm not convinced either event was primarily based on race. I think Atlanta does deserve some conversation into how his very conservative Church influenced him into believing that it was appropriate for him to murder 'sinners'. friends and acquaintances are coming out saying that the Atlanta shooter had a very unhealthy relationship with religion and sex where his Church kept telling him how evil and sinful his sexual desires were and that he would go through periods of guilt and depression after masturbating, looking at porn, etc believing that these actions were going to lead him to Hell. 

 

And both Boulder and Atlanta are going to reinvigorate discussions about gun laws and regulations which a majority of conservatives are zealously opposed to and view mass murders and killings as just an acceptable price to pay for what they consider full 2nd amendment rights. 

[Grumps 3,704]

31 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

so...the vast majority of the Republican Party? 

Now I do completely agree there are some  genuine Conservatives out there who are still interested in ideas, solutions, and reasoned positions. They are unfortunately not in control of nor have much influence in the larger American Conservative movement at the moment. Hopefully that may change one day. 

 

Well like I've said, I'm not convinced either event was primarily based on race. I think Atlanta does deserve some conversation into how his very conservative Church influenced him into believing that it was appropriate for him to murder 'sinners'. friends and acquaintances are coming out saying that the Atlanta shooter had a very unhealthy relationship with religion and sex where his Church kept telling him how evil and sinful his sexual desires were and that he would go through periods of guilt and depression after masturbating, looking at porn, etc believing that these actions were going to lead him to Hell. 

 

And both Boulder and Atlanta are going to reinvigorate discussions about gun laws and regulations which a majority of conservatives are zealously opposed to and view mass murders and killings as just an acceptable price to pay for what they consider full 2nd amendment rights. 

Do you have a link for any of those claims?

[I_M4_AU 7,915]

28 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

so...the vast majority of the Republican Party? 

Your assumption, no facts.  Most conservatives knew Powell’s argument did not hold water as no judge thought it had enough facts to bring to their court.

30 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

I think Atlanta does deserve some conversation into how his very conservative Church influenced him into believing that it was appropriate for him to murder 'sinners'.

This is also an assumption as to blaming the Church influenced him to murder *sinners*.  Churches usually teach hate the sin, forgive the sinner.  Now, how he processed the information the Church provided is anybody’s guess.  It seems he did have an unhealthy relationship with his sexual desires.

37 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

And both Boulder and Atlanta are going to reinvigorate discussions about gun laws and regulations which a majority of conservatives are zealously opposed to and view mass murders and killings as just an acceptable price to pay for what they consider full 2nd amendment rights. 

The gun law in Colorado already has a *red flag* law that encourages family members to tell the authorities if a gun owner has mental issues and the authorities will take the guns away.  I’m not sure what any new law would help in this situation to prevent this mass shooting without restricting law abiding citizens. 

There was a ban on *assault weapons* that was just lifted in Boulder because the a judge stated only the state (Colorado) or the Feds can ban weapons and the city couldn’t enforce the ban.  There was a federal ban on *assault weapons* in 1994 that was not re-upped in 2004.  That ban did not have much affect in gun violence from rifles.  This issue is not the gun, it is the person behind the gun which these two incidents bring up.

 “The Court has determined that only Colorado state (or federal) law can prohibit the possession, sale and transfer of assault weapons and large-capacity magazines,” Hartman wrote in his ruling.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-weapons-ban-colorado-judge-soopers-shooting-20210323-zcthq5zbpbbs5cimiqsnxhgysi-story.html

Restricting law abiding citizens from exercising their 2nd Amendment rights are not what the government is suppose to do.  The easiest thing to do is take guns away, but our Constitution forbids it.

 

 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

2 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

I would say some liberal media is just awful, but since the left likes to lump all conservatives together I’m just gonna go with what you said!! lol 

@icanthearyou, did hell freeze over? You loved one of my post....mistake perhaps? 😂😂

[AUFAN78 3,926]

6 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

The same Right that eagerly embraced Sidney Powell's fairy tales? 

I am quite sure there is a SP thread. Post SP comments there. This thread is unrelated. Your attempt to move the goalpost is noted and telling.

 

12 hours ago, McLoofus said:

The history of any particular type of racism goes as far back as whenever the first time the two or more different races involved were around each other. I'm well aware of how the Chinese immigrants that came to build the railroads and how Japanese Americans were treated during World War II and everything in between. The less overt racism, the stereotypes, all of it. I've seen my sister, born Korean, called a chink. The ease with which violence against Asians escalated over this last year is informed by that. But I personally don't ascribe the spike itself to pre-existing conditions, other than them making Asian Americans an easy target for a sissy bitch bully and a bunch of unintelligent insecure crybabies looking to displace their victimhood.

Unintelligent insecure crybabies belong to the radical left. Did I miss something here? No, you did. We have four years of evidence on this very forum from said group of whiny, bitchy effeminate males. Own it. 

[AU9377 5,018]

7 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Your assumption, no facts.  Most conservatives knew Powell’s argument did not hold water as no judge thought it had enough facts to bring to their court.

This is also an assumption as to blaming the Church influenced him to murder *sinners*.  Churches usually teach hate the sin, forgive the sinner.  Now, how he processed the information the Church provided is anybody’s guess.  It seems he did have an unhealthy relationship with his sexual desires.

The gun law in Colorado already has a *red flag* law that encourages family members to tell the authorities if a gun owner has mental issues and the authorities will take the guns away.  I’m not sure what any new law would help in this situation to prevent this mass shooting without restricting law abiding citizens. 

There was a ban on *assault weapons* that was just lifted in Boulder because the a judge stated only the state (Colorado) or the Feds can ban weapons and the city couldn’t enforce the ban.  There was a federal ban on *assault weapons* in 1994 that was not re-upped in 2004.  That ban did not have much affect in gun violence from rifles.  This issue is not the gun, it is the person behind the gun which these two incidents bring up.

 “The Court has determined that only Colorado state (or federal) law can prohibit the possession, sale and transfer of assault weapons and large-capacity magazines,” Hartman wrote in his ruling.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-weapons-ban-colorado-judge-soopers-shooting-20210323-zcthq5zbpbbs5cimiqsnxhgysi-story.html

Restricting law abiding citizens from exercising their 2nd Amendment rights are not what the government is suppose to do.  The easiest thing to do is take guns away, but our Constitution forbids it.

 

 

The 2nd Amendment is not absolute. Reasonable restrictions have been held to be constitutional.  The assault weapons ban that expired was constitutional. 

Nobody has suggested taking away guns.  Having said that, it is a valid point of discussion to point out that there is no real need to have an AR-15.  The only thing it is good for is killing people.  Sure, you can hunt wild hogs with it etc, but you can also use a rifle without a large capacity magazine to accomplish the same thing.  I agree that gun legislation alone will not solve this problem, but there is no one thing alone that will reduce or eliminate the American hobby of mass killings.  We have to do what we can where we can and when we can to impact the problem.  If just one or two of these events are prevented by making it more difficult for someone to obtain this type weapon, it is worth trying.  If someone only kills 3 people, instead of 10, it is worthwhile.

If the NRA continues to refuse compromise, the American public will eventually get fed up and the restrictions will be more severe than anything agreed to thru real compromise.  This cannot be the type of society that anyone wants their kids and grandkids inheriting.

[McLoofus 35,182]

7 hours ago, AU9377 said:

If someone only kills 3 people, instead of 10, it is worthwhile.

Some dude in China put like 20 kids and teachers in the hospital several years back when he attacked a school with a knife. Not a single one died. 

 

[CoffeeTiger 5,153]

17 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Your assumption, no facts.  Most conservatives knew Powell’s argument did not hold water as no judge thought it had enough facts to bring to their court.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/540508-majority-of-republicans-say-2020-election-was-invalid-poll

"The poll from the R Street Institute, a free markets group, found that 67 percent of Republicans view the past election as invalid, compared to 23 percent who believe it was valid.

Former President Trump and his allies claimed that he won the 2020 election in a “landslide” but that it was stolen from him through systemic fraud.

The Trump campaign lost dozens of lawsuits aiming to nullify Democratic votes or overturn the outcome in key swing states that President Biden won."

What the courts say seem to have little impact on what Conservatives ultimately believe. Powell was a key member of Trumps roaming band of election fraud hucksters until she went off script and started suggesting that Republicans boycott the Georgia elections because of voter fraud. Only then did Trump dump her from his team. 

 

Quote

This is also an assumption as to blaming the Church influenced him to murder *sinners*.  Churches usually teach hate the sin, forgive the sinner.  Now, how he processed the information the Church provided is anybody’s guess.  It seems he did have an unhealthy relationship with his sexual desires.

An unhealthy relationship with his sexual desires MIXED with an unhealthy interpretation of his religious beliefs. That's a key point. I don't know how much any individual thing or belief played in his ultimate actions, maybe he was just unhinged and his Church played very little part in it, but it's a documented problem that very conservative churches can create unhealthy levels of shame and sexual repression in members who grow up in it's teachings. Usually these issues don't result in actual murder, but it's something to consider 

Quote

The gun law in Colorado already has a *red flag* law that encourages family members to tell the authorities if a gun owner has mental issues and the authorities will take the guns away.  I’m not sure what any new law would help in this situation to prevent this mass shooting without restricting law abiding citizens. 

There was a ban on *assault weapons* that was just lifted in Boulder because the a judge stated only the state (Colorado) or the Feds can ban weapons and the city couldn’t enforce the ban.  There was a federal ban on *assault weapons* in 1994 that was not re-upped in 2004.  That ban did not have much affect in gun violence from rifles.  This issue is not the gun, it is the person behind the gun which these two incidents bring up.

 “The Court has determined that only Colorado state (or federal) law can prohibit the possession, sale and transfer of assault weapons and large-capacity magazines,” Hartman wrote in his ruling.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-weapons-ban-colorado-judge-soopers-shooting-20210323-zcthq5zbpbbs5cimiqsnxhgysi-story.html

Restricting law abiding citizens from exercising their 2nd Amendment rights are not what the government is suppose to do.  The easiest thing to do is take guns away, but our Constitution forbids it.

 

 

This is a good article on how mass shooters of the past 5-6 years acquired their weapons.

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-boulder-shootings-colorado-violence-6ba30f601233ed7aa3d49a3c76c026ed

I don't know the exact right solution to this problem, but as America slowly becomes more diverse and less conservative leaning, the majority are going to get fed up with living in a country with constant random mass shootings. Makes America look closer to Afghanistan than it does a safe, fully functioning modern country. "The greatest country on earth" is also the only modern country where schools have to hold regular live shooter drills "just in case".  Maybe this isn't the type of situation that the  writers of the 2nd amendment envisioned? 

 

 

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

9 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Maybe this isn't the type of situation that the  writers of the 2nd amendment envisioned? 

Nor did they envision the technology and defense spending being such that civilians would have both 1) the capacity to murder large numbers of fellow Americans in extremely short periods of time and 2) absolutely no hope of mounting a legitimate threat to our military might should they sense tyranny against which to rebel. 

2A is outdated horse***t. The types of guns that can be owned and the types of people that can own them need to be cleaned the hell up. 

[DKW 86 7,437]

The Reality: https://time.com/4965022/deadliest-mass-shooting-us-history/

A database of mass shootings compiled by Mother Jones going back to 1982 counts 114 such incidents in which at least three people were killed, not including the gunman. In that time, 932 people have been killed and 1,406 wounded, including the numbers from the El Paso and Dayton incidents. The following chart visualizes each mass shooting in terms of deaths and injuries. TIME has examined each incident and slightly adjusted some values as the death toll and number of injured has been clarified over time.

https://www.fbi.gov/about/partnerships/office-of-partner-engagement/active-shooter-incidents-graphics

 

Added together and not even correcting for double counts. There are two different numbers. Mass Shootings and Active Shooter Cases. 

391 Incidences over 38 years, or 10 incidences per year,
1816 killed over 38 years, or 48 deaths per year, or .016 deaths per 100K
2952 Wounded over 38 Years, or 78 wounded per year.

Top 100 Reasons for Deaths and their Statistics

#100. Unspecified diabetes mellitus, with peripheral circulatory complications

Deaths due to this cause: 68,968

Deaths per 100,000 people: 1.3

Percent of total deaths: 0.15%

Cause is most prevalent in: District of Columbia (2.44 deaths per 100,000 people)

Diabetes mellitus causes people to produce either insufficient levels of insulin, or insulin that does not function as it’s supposed to—ultimately resulting in an inability to convert food into expendable energy. The disease has the capacity to be lethal in a handful of ways, one of which is creating multiple roadblocks in the way of one’s circulatory functioning.

2 / 100

PxHere

#99. Mental and behavioural disorders due to use of alcohol, dependence syndrome

Deaths due to this cause: 71,088

Deaths per 100,000 people: 1.3

Percent of total deaths: 0.16%

Cause is most prevalent in: District of Columbia (5.05 deaths per 100,000 people)

While the debate over marijuana legalization rages on, many proponents point to the fact alcohol is an arguably more dangerous substance that remains legal. While alcohol is more commonly thought of as dangerous in the contexts of driving and misconduct, it also creates a plethora of long-term consequences, including exacerbation of disorders such as depression, bipolar disorder, and various forms of anxiety.

 

3 / 100

THD3 // Wikicommons

#98. Cervix uteri, unspecified - Malignant neoplasms

Deaths due to this cause: 72,190

Deaths per 100,000 people: 1.3

Percent of total deaths: 0.16%

Cause is most prevalent in: Mississippi (1.99 deaths per 100,000 people)

Though tumors are typically associated with cancer, they can often be benign. Malignant neoplasms, however, refer to tumors that carry the deadly disease and can be found in a handful of locations throughout the body. Cervical cancer is one of the more easily treatable variations of the tissue-destroying disease, and in many cases, can be avoided altogether via the use of regular Pap tests. Unfortunately, the statistics prove it still remains a frequent cause of death.

4 / 100

Qwe321 // Wikicommons

#97. Intrahepatic bile duct carcinoma - Malignant neoplasms

Deaths due to this cause: 76,893

Deaths per 100,000 people: 1.4

Percent of total deaths: 0.17%

Cause is most prevalent in: Rhode Island (2.13 deaths per 100,000 people)

While cancer originating in the bile duct is rare in general, intrahepatic (liver-originating) bile duct cancer is even rarer. Though it can be difficult to detect, this form of carcinoma is typified by patients experiencing fever, itchy skin, abdominal pain, and jaundice. 

5 / 100

Alexismessmer // Wikicommons

#96. Other lack of expected normal physiological development

Deaths due to this cause: 77,889

Deaths per 100,000 people: 1.4

Percent of total deaths: 0.17%

Cause is most prevalent in: Alaska (Unreliable deaths per 100,000 people)

Amongst the most difficult situations a parent can be confronted with is how to appropriately care for a child with a severe developmental disorder. The most well-known of these include autism, Asperger syndrome, and Tourette’s. Though the list of potential setbacks young children can face in their early growth stages grows longer, new medical discoveries are made every year.

6 / 100

PxHere

#95. Intentional self-harm by handgun discharge

Deaths due to this cause: 78,191

Deaths per 100,000 people: 1.4

Percent of total deaths: 0.17%

Cause is most prevalent in: Hawaii (Unreliable deaths per 100,000 people)

Though Hawaii is typically thought of as one of the happiest places on Earth, the statistics reveal a darker truth—the state leads in suicide by handgun. According to a study conducted by the Hawaiian government, the majority of these stemmed either from relationship troubles or severe mental illness of some sort.
 

7 / 100

Public Domain

#94. Malignant neoplasm of uterus, part unspecified

Deaths due to this cause: 78,726

Deaths per 100,000 people: 1.4

Percent of total deaths: 0.18%

Cause is most prevalent in: District of Columbia (2.34 deaths per 100,000 people)

Uterine malignancies are representative of a significant percentage of cancers from which women suffer, and while there are a few variations, endometrial carcinomas account for more than 9 in 10 cases. The majority of these instances are considered Type I endometrial carcinomas, which are most common in women 55 to 65 years old, while cases of Type II are far rarer and primarily seen in women between 65 and 75 years old.

8 / 100

jeffadair // Flickr

#93. Other and unspecified intestinal obstruction

Deaths due to this cause: 78,845

Deaths per 100,000 people: 1.5

Percent of total deaths: 0.18%

Cause is most prevalent in: South Dakota (2.69 deaths per 100,000 people)

Intestinal obstruction refers to the instance of food being unable to pass through one’s small intestine or large intestine. While it can be treated when caught, symptoms can often be difficult to notice. Abdominal pains, vomiting, and constipation are all sensations that can be misconstrued for something less serious, so it’s advised that patients experiencing those get checked regardless so as to avoid a worst-case scenario.

9 / 100

MEdic454 // Wikicommons

#92. Chronic lymphocytic leukaemia - Malignant neoplasms

Deaths due to this cause: 80,002

Deaths per 100,000 people: 1.5

Percent of total deaths: 0.18%

Cause is most prevalent in: Iowa (2.3 deaths per 100,000 people)

Also known as CLL for short, chronic lymphocytic leukaemia is a type of cancer where an excess of weak white blood cells are formed in one’s bone marrow. Though the weaker cells are not intrinsically harmful to the body, their unwanted presence takes the place of properly functioning white and red blood cells, as well as platelets—each of which serve to fight off various infections.
 

10 / 100

U.S. Air Force

#91. Malignant neoplasms of independent (primary) multiple sites

Deaths due to this cause: 80,416

Deaths per 100,000 people: 1.5

Percent of total deaths: 0.18%

Cause is most prevalent in: Arkansas (2.71 deaths per 100,000 people)

Though many of the cancers on this list are associated with a clearly defined origin, there are a fair deal whose primary location is unknown for one reason or another. In cases like this, the malignant neoplasm is said to be either "disseminated," "scattered," or "spread," indicating a cancer that has moved throughout the body to the point that its original location is undetectable. 

11 / 100

Wikicommons

#90. Dilated cardiomyopathy

Deaths due to this cause: 82,031

Deaths per 100,000 people: 1.5

Percent of total deaths: 0.18%

Cause is most prevalent in: Hawaii (2.98 deaths per 100,000 people)

A heart disease that is often hereditary, dilated cardiomyopathy usually begins in the left ventricle, causing the muscle to become stretchy and thin—resulting in difficulty breathing and swelling of various joints in many cases. Studies have shown that DCM often stems from poor health habits such as excessive alcohol consumption or poor diet.

The Deaths of .016 People per 100K, we are going to create a huge bureaucracy to enforce some unenforceable laws that will cost $100Ms of dollars and achieve....next to nothing but paperwork and expense? Mass Shootings are still arouns 100X lower than even the least of these. We are going to overlook these diseases etc and let these people keep right on dying so we can do the politically expedient thing? Why do we overlook preventing deaths to go to work on those that are unpredictable and random? 

Is that the big plan? Regulating 330M, yes 330 Million, weapons will take an army of workers and millions of manhours and $100Ms of dollars, and for what end? The number of actual weapons used in crimes is probably a few hundred a year, mostly from the black market, but we arent going to do anything to stop them. Literally ZERO. We will end up spending all that money and end up not changing the outcome any appreciable bit.

I am all for reasonable monitoring. But please spare everyone here the thought that this is going to change the outcome much if at all.

[I_M4_AU 7,915]

20 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

What the courts say seem to have little impact on what Conservatives ultimately believe. Powell was a key member of Trumps roaming band of election fraud hucksters until she went off script and started suggesting that Republicans boycott the Georgia elections because of voter fraud. Only then did Trump dump her from his team. 

Again, you seem to equate Conservatives with Trump.  Please stop making that mistake.  Like I said, most didn’t believe Powell because of the court system stopped her theory cold.  Only a vocal minority of Conservatives still believed it was fraud.

24 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

An unhealthy relationship with his sexual desires MIXED with an unhealthy interpretation of his religious beliefs.

This can happen to anyone whether your religious, in the biblical sense or just hold a unhealthy desire for sex.  The bottom line is its the person behind the gun that is the problem.

From the article you posted:

Boulder Colorado, Alissa was prone to sudden rage and was convicted of misdemeanor assault and sentenced to probation for attacking a high school classmate, law enforcement officials and former associates said. It was not immediately known where Alissa purchased his gun or whether that incident came up on a background check. Had he been convicted of a felony, his purchase would’ve been barred under federal law.

My comments:  If he had been convicted none of this would have happened, a barrier missed.  Had his family/friends members has enacted the *red flag* law in Colorado this would not have happened, another barrier missed.  He bought the gun 6 days before the incident which indicates a waiting period.

Atlanta Georgia:  Georgia, like the majority of states, has no waiting period to obtain a gun.

My comments:  Long seemed to be a troubled young man and a waiting period may or may not have made a difference.  If Georgia has a *red flag* law, this might have helped.

Midland Texas, Ator had been blocked from getting a gun in 2014 after his background check was flagged because a court determined he was mentally ill, according to a law enforcement official familiar with the matter.

My comments:  Ator was another troubled person and the background check worked in this case.  To me, it appears Ator was bent on *suicide by cop* and unfortunately he took victims with him.  He might have been looking for help, but couldn’t find it.

Dayton Ohio, Ohio law requires that sealed records of any juvenile crimes be expunged either after five years or once the offender turns 23.

My comments:  who’s rights are more important in this situation?  Does a juvenile have the right to expunge his record if he is capable of this type of evil, or is it better to restrict firearms from law abiding citizens with no such record?

El Paso, Texas, Patrick Crusius bought an AK-47-style rifle and 1,000 rounds of hollow-point ammunition online 45 days before the Walmart attack, prosecutors said. A Crusius family lawyer said his mother raised concerns about the purchase in a call to police on June 27. Police said she asked if Crusius, who was 21 at the time, was old enough to buy a gun. Police said she was assured he was and that he’d qualify if he passed a background check. Police said she expressed concern only about his safety and said she’d seen no recent change in his behavior. 

My comments:  A waiting period would not have helped in this situation.  His mother queried the police, but was not specific about an immediate threat.  Sometimes the people that are close to an individual are the last to know their own loved ones.  The *red flag* law may or may not have helped.

Virginia Beach, Virginia, Former Virginia Beach city employee DeWayne Craddock legally purchased six firearms in the three years before he opened fire on a municipal building, including the two .45-caliber pistols used in the attack.

My Comments:  A waiting period would not have helped in this situation.  He just cracked one day.  Should the Government have the authority to take a psychological inventory of its citizens at any given point?

Thousand Oaks, California, Months before the shooting, sheriff’s deputies called to Long’s home found him acting irrationally, but a mental health specialist didn’t feel he needed to be involuntarily committed. California has a “red flag law,” but there’s no indication authorities sought a court order to take away Long’s guns.

My Comments:  Another missed opportunity by law enforcement to prevent a shooting.  California has a *red flag* law and these officers did not use it.  The law was there already.  Enforce the law and let’s not make up new ones until we do.

Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Robert Gregory Bowers had a carry license and legally owned the Colt AR-15 SP1 and three Glock .357 handguns police said he used to kill worshipers at Tree of Life synagogue. Bowers spent months posting angry rants against Jews on Gab, a social media site favored by right-wing extremists.

My Comments:  The scum of the earth, a true White Supremist, just a evil act against humanity.  The FBI is now looking into these groups and I would hope following there movements more closely.

Santa Fe, Texas, Dimitrios Pagourtzis, a 17-year-old student, used a shotgun and a .38-caliber handgun that his father purchased legally and stored in a closet at their home, authorities said. It wasn’t clear if his father knew he’d taken the guns.

My Comments:  The barrier miss here was at home with his father.  If he was unable to stand trial, his father should have recognized this and secured his firearms.  Parents usually thing the best of their children when they may not deserve it.

Parkland, Florida, Nikolas Cruz legally purchased a Smith & Wesson M&P 15 rifle in February 2017 from a licensed dealer a few miles from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, authorities said. He’d been treated at a mental health clinic but hadn’t been there in more than a year. Federal law prohibits gun purchases if a court declares a person a “mental defective” or commits them to an institution, but not if the person seeks treatment voluntarily.

My Comments:  This case is well known and the barrier missed here ranges from his *family and friends* to law enforcement.  He was well known the the Law Enforcement community and yet nothing was done.

Sutherland Springs, Texas, Devin Patrick Kelley’s history of domestic abuse barred him from buying guns. He was able to because information about his crimes was never entered into a federal database used for background checks. The Air Force failed to follow rules requiring that it inform the FBI about his conduct.

My Comments:  Another big barrier missed on this one.  The laws are in place one just has to enforce them, including background checks and updating databases.

LAS VEGAS Nevada, Stephen Paddock purchased 33 of the 49 weapons found in his hotel room and at his homes in the year before he opened fire on a country music festival. 

My Comments:  Another case of a guy just snapping, but this time he planned his deed well in advance.  It’s too bad someone close to him didn’t recognize his tendencies.

San Bernardino, California, Syed Farook and his wife, Tashfeen Malik, used weapons the FBI said his neighbor, Enrique Marquez, legally purchased from a licensed dealer in 2011 and 2012. Marquez pleaded guilty to charges he conspired to provide support to terrorists and made false statements to acquire a firearm. He told investigators Farook asked him to buy the weapons because he would draw less attention.

My Comments:  Another planned attach that developed over time.  A waiting period would not have helped.  Marquez is just as guilty as the other two.  An act of terrorism.

Roseburg, Oregon, Christopher Harper-Mercer and his family members legally purchased the handguns and rifle used in the Umpqua Community College shooting from a licensed dealer. Investigators found six guns at the college and eight at an apartment. Neighbors said Harper-Mercer and his mother went target shooting together. 

My Comments:  Another case of people just fed up and acting out with guns.  What law would have prevented this incident?  Family members and friends were the last line of defense here.

Charleston, South Carolina, A drug arrest should’ve prevented Dylann Roof from purchasing the pistol he used at Emanuel AME Church, but a record-keeping error and background check delay enabled the transaction to go through. The FBI said a background check examiner never saw the arrest report because the wrong arresting agency was listed in state criminal history records. After three days, the gun dealer was legally permitted to complete the transaction.

My Comments:  The barrier was record keeping and human error.  The gun dealer had no recourse but to complete the transaction.

Washington, DC, Aaron Alexis, a former reservist turned civilian contractor, passed background checks and legally purchased the shotgun used in the Washington Navy Yard shooting despite recent mental health treatment and a history of violent outbursts. He previously fired a gun in anger twice but wasn’t prosecuted in either case.

My Comments:  Again the legal system failed to flag this person as a danger if he was to purchase a gun.  A barrier missed.

Newton, Connecticut, Adam Lanza used his mother’s weapons, including a .223-caliber semi-automatic rifle, in the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School. Lanza’s mother, whom he fatally shot before going to the school, also purchased the ammunition.

My Comments:  IIRC this young man had mental issues that his mother thought learning how to us a firearm would straighten him out.  This one is on the mother and she paid a steep price.  A *red flag* law would have helped, but not thought of in 2012.

Aurora, Colorado, James Holmes was receiving psychiatric treatment when he passed required federal background checks and legally purchased the weapons he used in his movie theater assault.

My Comments:  If he was receiving psychiatric treatment it goes without saying some close to him knew of his state of mind.  According to Wikipedia he saw a social worker and they suggested he get treatment.  His girl friend at the time broke up with him as she said he talked about killing people, but did not raise too much concern.  Again, this is in 2011/12 time frame and *red flag* laws were not discussed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Holmes_(mass_murderer)

Sorry for the long reply, but I hope you can see that most of these mass murders could have been prevented just by the laws we already have without making new ones that restrict the rights of others.

The bottom line is that some people are just evil and unless the people close to them speak up, nationwide data bases are kept up and laws concerning who is place in these databases (juveniles with records and other offenders that should be in the there) this will continue.

 

 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

Again, you seem to equate Conservatives with Trump.  Please stop making that mistake.  Like I said, most didn’t believe Powell because of the court system stopped her theory cold.  Only a vocal minority of Conservatives still believed it was fraud.

This can happen to anyone whether your religious, in the biblical sense or just hold a unhealthy desire for sex.  The bottom line is its the person behind the gun that is the problem.

From the article you posted:

Boulder Colorado, Alissa was prone to sudden rage and was convicted of misdemeanor assault and sentenced to probation for attacking a high school classmate, law enforcement officials and former associates said. It was not immediately known where Alissa purchased his gun or whether that incident came up on a background check. Had he been convicted of a felony, his purchase would’ve been barred under federal law.

My comments:  If he had been convicted none of this would have happened, a barrier missed.  Had his family/friends members has enacted the *red flag* law in Colorado this would not have happened, another barrier missed.  He bought the gun 6 days before the incident which indicates a waiting period.

Atlanta Georgia:  Georgia, like the majority of states, has no waiting period to obtain a gun.

My comments:  Long seemed to be a troubled young man and a waiting period may or may not have made a difference.  If Georgia has a *red flag* law, this might have helped.

Midland Texas, Ator had been blocked from getting a gun in 2014 after his background check was flagged because a court determined he was mentally ill, according to a law enforcement official familiar with the matter.

My comments:  Ator was another troubled person and the background check worked in this case.  To me, it appears Ator was bent on *suicide by cop* and unfortunately he took victims with him.  He might have been looking for help, but couldn’t find it.

Dayton Ohio, Ohio law requires that sealed records of any juvenile crimes be expunged either after five years or once the offender turns 23.

My comments:  who’s rights are more important in this situation?  Does a juvenile have the right to expunge his record if he is capable of this type of evil, or is it better to restrict firearms from law abiding citizens with no such record?

El Paso, Texas, Patrick Crusius bought an AK-47-style rifle and 1,000 rounds of hollow-point ammunition online 45 days before the Walmart attack, prosecutors said. A Crusius family lawyer said his mother raised concerns about the purchase in a call to police on June 27. Police said she asked if Crusius, who was 21 at the time, was old enough to buy a gun. Police said she was assured he was and that he’d qualify if he passed a background check. Police said she expressed concern only about his safety and said she’d seen no recent change in his behavior. 

My comments:  A waiting period would not have helped in this situation.  His mother queried the police, but was not specific about an immediate threat.  Sometimes the people that are close to an individual are the last to know their own loved ones.  The *red flag* law may or may not have helped.

Virginia Beach, Virginia, Former Virginia Beach city employee DeWayne Craddock legally purchased six firearms in the three years before he opened fire on a municipal building, including the two .45-caliber pistols used in the attack.

My Comments:  A waiting period would not have helped in this situation.  He just cracked one day.  Should the Government have the authority to take a psychological inventory of its citizens at any given point?

Thousand Oaks, California, Months before the shooting, sheriff’s deputies called to Long’s home found him acting irrationally, but a mental health specialist didn’t feel he needed to be involuntarily committed. California has a “red flag law,” but there’s no indication authorities sought a court order to take away Long’s guns.

My Comments:  Another missed opportunity by law enforcement to prevent a shooting.  California has a *red flag* law and these officers did not use it.  The law was there already.  Enforce the law and let’s not make up new ones until we do.

Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Robert Gregory Bowers had a carry license and legally owned the Colt AR-15 SP1 and three Glock .357 handguns police said he used to kill worshipers at Tree of Life synagogue. Bowers spent months posting angry rants against Jews on Gab, a social media site favored by right-wing extremists.

My Comments:  The scum of the earth, a true White Supremist, just a evil act against humanity.  The FBI is now looking into these groups and I would hope following there movements more closely.

Santa Fe, Texas, Dimitrios Pagourtzis, a 17-year-old student, used a shotgun and a .38-caliber handgun that his father purchased legally and stored in a closet at their home, authorities said. It wasn’t clear if his father knew he’d taken the guns.

My Comments:  The barrier miss here was at home with his father.  If he was unable to stand trial, his father should have recognized this and secured his firearms.  Parents usually thing the best of their children when they may not deserve it.

Parkland, Florida, Nikolas Cruz legally purchased a Smith & Wesson M&P 15 rifle in February 2017 from a licensed dealer a few miles from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, authorities said. He’d been treated at a mental health clinic but hadn’t been there in more than a year. Federal law prohibits gun purchases if a court declares a person a “mental defective” or commits them to an institution, but not if the person seeks treatment voluntarily.

My Comments:  This case is well known and the barrier missed here ranges from his *family and friends* to law enforcement.  He was well known the the Law Enforcement community and yet nothing was done.

Sutherland Springs, Texas, Devin Patrick Kelley’s history of domestic abuse barred him from buying guns. He was able to because information about his crimes was never entered into a federal database used for background checks. The Air Force failed to follow rules requiring that it inform the FBI about his conduct.

My Comments:  Another big barrier missed on this one.  The laws are in place one just has to enforce them, including background checks and updating databases.

LAS VEGAS Nevada, Stephen Paddock purchased 33 of the 49 weapons found in his hotel room and at his homes in the year before he opened fire on a country music festival. 

My Comments:  Another case of a guy just snapping, but this time he planned his deed well in advance.  It’s too bad someone close to him didn’t recognize his tendencies.

San Bernardino, California, Syed Farook and his wife, Tashfeen Malik, used weapons the FBI said his neighbor, Enrique Marquez, legally purchased from a licensed dealer in 2011 and 2012. Marquez pleaded guilty to charges he conspired to provide support to terrorists and made false statements to acquire a firearm. He told investigators Farook asked him to buy the weapons because he would draw less attention.

My Comments:  Another planned attach that developed over time.  A waiting period would not have helped.  Marquez is just as guilty as the other two.  An act of terrorism.

Roseburg, Oregon, Christopher Harper-Mercer and his family members legally purchased the handguns and rifle used in the Umpqua Community College shooting from a licensed dealer. Investigators found six guns at the college and eight at an apartment. Neighbors said Harper-Mercer and his mother went target shooting together. 

My Comments:  Another case of people just fed up and acting out with guns.  What law would have prevented this incident?  Family members and friends were the last line of defense here.

Charleston, South Carolina, A drug arrest should’ve prevented Dylann Roof from purchasing the pistol he used at Emanuel AME Church, but a record-keeping error and background check delay enabled the transaction to go through. The FBI said a background check examiner never saw the arrest report because the wrong arresting agency was listed in state criminal history records. After three days, the gun dealer was legally permitted to complete the transaction.

My Comments:  The barrier was record keeping and human error.  The gun dealer had no recourse but to complete the transaction.

Washington, DC, Aaron Alexis, a former reservist turned civilian contractor, passed background checks and legally purchased the shotgun used in the Washington Navy Yard shooting despite recent mental health treatment and a history of violent outbursts. He previously fired a gun in anger twice but wasn’t prosecuted in either case.

My Comments:  Again the legal system failed to flag this person as a danger if he was to purchase a gun.  A barrier missed.

Newton, Connecticut, Adam Lanza used his mother’s weapons, including a .223-caliber semi-automatic rifle, in the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School. Lanza’s mother, whom he fatally shot before going to the school, also purchased the ammunition.

My Comments:  IIRC this young man had mental issues that his mother thought learning how to us a firearm would straighten him out.  This one is on the mother and she paid a steep price.  A *red flag* law would have helped, but not thought of in 2012.

Aurora, Colorado, James Holmes was receiving psychiatric treatment when he passed required federal background checks and legally purchased the weapons he used in his movie theater assault.

My Comments:  If he was receiving psychiatric treatment it goes without saying some close to him knew of his state of mind.  According to Wikipedia he saw a social worker and they suggested he get treatment.  His girl friend at the time broke up with him as she said he talked about killing people, but did not raise too much concern.  Again, this is in 2011/12 time frame and *red flag* laws were not discussed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Holmes_(mass_murderer)

Sorry for the long reply, but I hope you can see that most of these mass murders could have been prevented just by the laws we already have without making new ones that restrict the rights of others.

The bottom line is that some people are just evil and unless the people close to them speak up, nationwide data bases are kept up and laws concerning who is place in these databases (juveniles with records and other offenders that should be in the there) this will continue.

 

 

Agreed, if the states and feds would properly enforce the laws on the books it would greatly help. But, don’t forget it’s the liberal way to just throw more laws at something even if you know it won’t work because we don’t even enforce the ones we have. But, it gets votes and their followers eat it up so.....

[autigeremt 6,660]

On 3/24/2021 at 11:26 AM, homersapien said:

Were you a tourist?

I've been there as a tourist, on business and with the US Government. I also see it here on campus but hey....you wouldn't understand. 

[DKW 86 7,437]

16 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

Agreed, if the states and feds would properly enforce the laws on the books it would greatly help. But, don’t forget it’s the liberal way to just throw more laws at something even if you know it won’t work because we don’t even enforce the ones we have. But, it gets votes and their followers eat it up so.....

I am trying now to reconstruct the actual number of Assault Weapons cases actually prosecuted. 
So far, the number seem to top out at <3% of any year and dropped significantly of even gun TRACES (<1.6%),.NOT ARRESTS, AND CERTAINLY NOT PROSECUTIONS.

I believe like you that this is just a feel good law that no one ever really enforced and no one ever really looked at.
The number of mass shootings dropped off in 1993 (before the assault weapons ban took place)  the and then stayed low until 1998-1999 where it peaked at a record held until 2012. So, the Assault weapons ban literally did nothing to curtail mass shootings 

[CoffeeTiger 5,153]

23 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Nor did they envision the technology and defense spending being such that civilians would have both 1) the capacity to murder large numbers of fellow Americans in extremely short periods of time and 2) absolutely no hope of mounting a legitimate threat to our military might should they sense tyranny against which to rebel. 

2A is outdated horse***t. The types of guns that can be owned and the types of people that can own them need to be cleaned the hell up. 

[I_M4_AU 7,915]

48 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Did you forget Nazi Germany that took the guns away before killing 6 million Jews in concentration camps.  That’s how it happens; disarm the citizens and force you will on them.  Of course, Hitler told the German citizens they needed to remove gun for the children.

What also helped was the Nazi party controlled the media and the narrative of the government.  There are some parallels, but there are just too many gun owners for the Biden do hope to do this.

[CoffeeTiger 5,153]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

Did you forget Nazi Germany that took the guns away before killing 6 million Jews in concentration camps.  That’s how it happens; disarm the citizens and force you will on them.  Of course, Hitler told the German citizens they needed to remove gun for the children.

What also helped was the Nazi party controlled the media and the narrative of the government.  There are some parallels, but there are just too many gun owners for the Biden do hope to do this.

This is a historically inaccurate take. The Weimer Republic (The democratic government before Hitler) enacted strict gun control laws to abide by the Treaty of Versailles. It is correct that Hitler wanted to keep guns out of the hands of the Jews and other "Undesirables", but Hitler actually relaxed gun regulations considerably as time went on for members of the Nazi Party and the General non-jewish German citizens. Nazi's didn't care about civilian disarmament except for the minorities it didn't like. 

The Nazi Party was also fairly popular among a majority of the German population when they took power and Jews only accounted for about 1% of the total German population at that time.  There is absolutely no historical basis or research that suggests that if German Jews had been better armed with pistols and shot guns, that the Holocausts would have been prevented or reduced in any manner. Hitter and the Nazi party had the full support of the military, police, and a majority of the civilian population. The Jewish population stood absolutely no chance. 

 

 

[homersapien 11,415]

20 hours ago, autigeremt said:

I've been there as a tourist, on business and with the US Government. I also see it here on campus but hey....you wouldn't understand. 

Would that be the U.S. military?

See what on campus?

[homersapien 11,415]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

Did you forget Nazi Germany that took the guns away before killing 6 million Jews in concentration camps.  That’s how it happens; disarm the citizens and force you will on them.  Of course, Hitler told the German citizens they needed to remove gun for the children.

What also helped was the Nazi party controlled the media and the narrative of the government.  There are some parallels, but there are just too many gun owners for the Biden do hope to do this.

It's hilarious that you would mention Biden as being the potential threat to our freedom after what transpired under Trump. 

[Grumps 3,704]

2 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

The cartoon misses the point. It is not about how many tyrants have been overthrown, it's about how many tyrannical leaders we have had. We have had zero, so the 2nd amendment has been 100% effective!

[CoffeeTiger 5,153]

4 minutes ago, Grumps said:

The cartoon misses the point. It is not about how many tyrants have been overthrown, it's about how many tyrannical leaders we have had. We have had zero, so the 2nd amendment has been 100% effective!

The stability of the U.S. government and it's control of it's own armed forces has been effective. The 2nd amendment has had nothing to do with it. Other democratic countries around the world do not have the same gun rights as Americans  and they are not dealing with repressive, tyrannical governments, but they ARE dealing with less gun deaths, less violence, less drug use, and a better quality of life overall. 

 

[I_M4_AU 7,915]

1 minute ago, CoffeeTiger said:

This is a historically inaccurate take. The Weimer Republic (The democratic government before Hitler) unacted strict gun control laws to abide by the Treaty of Versailles. It is correct that Hitler wanted to keep guns out of the hands of the Jews and other "Undesirables", but Hitler actually relaxed gun regulations considerably as time went on for members of the Nazi Party and the General non-jewish German citizens. Nazi's didn't care about civilian disarmament except for the minorities it didn't like. 

The Nazi Party was also fairly popular among a majority of the German population when they took power and Jews only accounted for about 1% of the total German population at that time.  There is absolutely no historical basis or research that suggests that if German Jews had been better armed with pistols and shot guns, that the Holocausts would have been prevented or reduced in any manner. Hitter and the Nazi party had the full support of the military, police, and a majority of the civilian population. The Jewish population stood absolutely no chance. 

 

 

 

It is true that Hitler didn’t disarm every citizen, but the second part of my statement is the biggest reason he didn’t have to.  The media propaganda narrative convinced the German population that the Jews were the problem (along with any other *enemy of the state*) and he used the Weimar Republic’s gun registration law to root out gun owners of German Jews and other enemies of the state.

I found this pdf about the Nazi Party’s gun confiscation policy.

Adolph Hitler was named Chancellor of Germany on January 30, 1933. The Nazi regime immediately began a campaign to disarm and obliterate all enemies of the state, who were invariably designated “Communists.”

My Comments: Hitler started with ordinary citizens that designated as *Communists* and later, after Hitler had controlled the opposition his focus became the German Jews

Nazi repressive measures against Jewish firearms owners were facilitated by the 1928 Weimar gun control law, which banned firearms from “untrustworthy” persons and allowed the police to keep records on who acquired or carried firearms.  As the New York Times reported:
                                        Permission to Possess Arms Withdrawn From Breslau Jews
Breslau, April 21. The Police President of the city has decreed that “all persons now or formerly of the Jewish faith who hold permits to carry arms or shooting licenses must surrender them forthwith to the police authorities.”
The order is justified officially on the grounds that Jewish citizens have allegedly used their weapons for unlawful attacks on members of the Nazi organization and the police.
Inasmuch as the Jewish population “cannot be regarded as trustworthy,” it is stated, permits to carry arms will not in the future be issued to any member thereof.

https://www.independent.org/pdf/research_articles/2013-13-12-halbrook-arizona-journal.pdf

Notice it took less then 4 months to accomplish this.  The point being, once you disarm your opposition and control the rest of the people and the media, you can implement what ever policy you want.

The relaxing of gun laws you mentioned happened in 1938 when Hitler had complete control of the country and felt he could do so without opposition.

The article also mentioned *military weapons* could not be possessed by the citizens whether *Communists* or not.  Sounds somewhat familiar.

[I_M4_AU 7,915]

41 minutes ago, homersapien said:

It's hilarious that you would mention Biden as being the potential threat to our freedom after what transpired under Trump. 

Whataboutism.