Vaccine passport on the way?

[SLAG-91 1,483]

There wasn't any moralistic bullying or edict-issuing in my last post, so I stand by it. Saying something is most likely a good idea is not the same as mandating that it be done.

None of you would have any way of knowing this (or even believing it, but I can't control that) because, well, I've never met any of you, but I am nonconfrontational to a huge degree in my everyday life...pretty much a "I don't bother you, so you don't bother me" sort. 

This is not a perfect analogy, but take wearing seatbelts...I think is a wise thing to do...but I don't think citations should be issued for failure to wear one, absent any other offenses. 

I started this thread because of my increased frustration with overly intrusive measures in general, but am hopeful that this particular one (vaccine passport) doesn't come to pass. If it does, then I'll be doing a lot of driving. 

I will admit to throwing some snark regarding the multiple masks, but my opinion about their efficacy relative to good hygiene, limited personal interaction and vaccines is low.

Assesses self a 2-minute minor for roughing...

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 hours ago, SLAG-91 said:

There wasn't any moralistic bullying or edict-issuing in my last post, so I stand by it. Saying something is most likely a good idea is not the same as mandating that it be done.

None of you would have any way of knowing this (or even believing it, but I can't control that) because, well, I've never met any of you, but I am nonconfrontational to a huge degree in my everyday life...pretty much a "I don't bother you, so you don't bother me" sort. 

This is not a perfect analogy, but take wearing seatbelts...I think is a wise thing to do...but I don't think citations should be issued for failure to wear one, absent any other offenses. 

I started this thread because of my increased frustration with overly intrusive measures in general, but am hopeful that this particular one (vaccine passport) doesn't come to pass. If it does, then I'll be doing a lot of driving. 

I will admit to throwing some snark regarding the multiple masks, but my opinion about their efficacy relative to good hygiene, limited personal interaction and vaccines is low.

Assesses self a 2-minute minor for roughing...

This didn't make it better.

Don't mistake your distaste for minor personal imposition in the interests of your fellow man for magnanimity.

Edited May 20, 2021 by McLoofus

[SaltyTiger 7,825]

4 hours ago, SLAG-91 said:

This is not a perfect analogy, but take wearing seatbelts...I think is a wise thing to do...but I don't think citations should be issued for failure to wear one, absent any other offenses. 

I started this thread because of my increased frustration with overly intrusive measures in general, but am hopeful that this particular one (vaccine passport) doesn't come to pass. If it does, then I'll be doing a lot of driving. 

Why not citations for no seatbelt? Studies show that they may eliminate the need for others to clean you up post accident.

Intrusive enforcement measures are proven needed with some things. Recent one that comes to mind are steep fines or jail for entering waters at our gulf beaches when “ no swim” warnings are out.

Curious if you find it intrusive that municipalities and institutions require rabies vaccinations for our pets?

[MaxCohen216 514]

On 5/19/2021 at 10:00 PM, AUDub said:

I can assure you I won't take it personally lol. 

"It can be combative."

OK. Maybe I can learn from you how to "not take it personally".  Because I usually do.  Which is a character flaw, I know.

Edited May 21, 2021 by MaxCohen216
grammer

[MaxCohen216 514]

My goodness.  How the tables have turned against people who choose to remain unvaccinated.

To recap, I believe in the medical community, up and until they say that a man can become a woman, and vice versa. 

As it relates to the COVID vaccine, I accept that contracting COVID is bad, and that the vaccine is good.  And although I've had both (COVID and the vaccine), I can understand why young people would be skeptical of taking the vaccine.  That's a personal choice.  In my case, after having COVID, I just want to know when and where I can take anything (booster shots) recommended by medical science.  Because I believe in the vaccine and the science behind it.  Yet I'm 58 years old, and am more vulnerable than young families who barely show symptoms.

And even though I am fully vaccinated, I will never show proof of vaccination to anyone for any reason.  That's akin to the former (1930s-1940s) Nazi orders of "show me your papers".  Which three of my uncles fought in WWII to dismantle.

Edited May 21, 2021 by MaxCohen216

[AUDub 11,158]

2 hours ago, MaxCohen216 said:

OK. Maybe I can learn from you how to "not take it personally".  Because I usually do.  Which is a character flaw, I know.

All I can tell you about this board is to keep in mind "water off a duck's back." There are a lot of people here that I disagree with a lot, and sometimes both parties can get impolite, yet we can still keep it friendly elsewhere. With a few exceptions (mostly banned people lol) I will gladly share a beer with pretty much anyone. 

When it comes to discussing politics, compartmentalization is an important skill. 

[MaxCohen216 514]

5 hours ago, AUDub said:

All I can tell you about this board is to keep in mind "water off a duck's back." There are a lot of people here that I disagree with a lot, and sometimes both parties can get impolite, yet we can still keep it friendly elsewhere. With a few exceptions (mostly banned people lol) I will gladly share a beer with pretty much anyone. 

When it comes to discussing politics, compartmentalization is an important skill. 

Compartmentalization, yes, plus beer.  I have beer, and am working on compartmentalization.

I think I can have fun here.  I just need to learn the "water off a duck's back" thing...which I can.

[AUFAN78 3,916]

7 hours ago, MaxCohen216 said:

My goodness.  How the tables have turned against people who choose to remain unvaccinated.

To recap, I believe in the medical community, up and until they say that a man can become a woman, and vice versa. 

As it relates to the COVID vaccine, I accept that contracting COVID is bad, and that the vaccine is good.  And although I've had both (COVID and the vaccine), I can understand why young people would be skeptical of taking the vaccine.  That's a personal choice.  In my case, after having COVID, I just want to know when and where I can take anything (booster shots) recommended by medical science.  Because I believe in the vaccine and the science behind it.  Yet I'm 58 years old, and am more vulnerable than young families who barely show symptoms.

And even though I am fully vaccinated, I will never show proof of vaccination to anyone for any reason.  That's akin to the former (1930s-1940s) Nazi orders of "show me your papers".  Which three of my uncles fought in WWII to dismantle.

I don't think they've turned much if at all. Just know you have some very passionate people here that are pro vax. Nothing wrong with that in my view. I'm pro vax too and like you got the vaccine. Having stated that, I do understand the skepticism of our youth and do not at this point hold that against them.

Also, if I choose to attend an AU game this fall and have to show proof of said vaccine I'll gladly do so. Doesn't bother me at all. I do understand your choice and respect it. 

[MaxCohen216 514]

7 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

I don't think they've turned much if at all. Just know you have some very passionate people here that are pro vax. Nothing wrong with that in my view. I'm pro vax too and like you got the vaccine. Having stated that, I do understand the skepticism of our youth and do not at this point hold that against them.

Also, if I choose to attend an AU game this fall and have to show proof of said vaccine I'll gladly do so. Doesn't bother me at all. I do understand your choice and respect it. 

I'm very conservative (spoiler), but am dismayed by my conservative friends who oppose taking the vaccine.  They are smart, many of them engineers of various professions, very successful in their careers.

On the other hand, my liberal friends (more than just a few) disagree with me refusing to show a vaccine card if/when required.

So, I truly have no home in this argument.  I'm regarded as an outsider by both sides.  But that's OK.  We'll reconcile, eventually.

[McLoofus 35,182]

About that "it's a personal decision" bull****. The wife of one of my best friends is in the ER today. Instead of enjoying my Saturday I am preoccupied with whether or not I'll be going to her funeral soon and if my friend's life, and those of his children and his sister-in-law who also just lost her mother, will be dramatically and forever altered for the worse.

Mid-40s, no underlying conditions. She might get put on a ventilator today. I listen to my buddy say the words "everyone I've known that's been put on a ventilator has died" just a little while ago. This is a woman who was at my wedding. I was at hers.

Admittedly, I am feeling extra emotional because this is the closest covid has come to my doorstep. But that's the whole point. Her choice not to get vaccinated is going to have a tsunami effect in her immediate circles and it is going to ripple out across many states in every direction. And it very might well break my dear friend.

[johnnyAU 3,634]

10 hours ago, MaxCohen216 said:

Compartmentalization, yes, plus beer.  I have beer, and am working on compartmentalization.

I think I can have fun here.  I just need to learn the "water off a duck's back" thing...which I can.

Some folks need to follow the ole "water off a duck's back" thing on a more consistent basis. Some say it, but might not be the best at following through. 

[AUDub 11,158]

51 minutes ago, johnnyAU said:

Some folks need to follow the ole "water off a duck's back" thing on a more consistent basis. Some say it, but might not be the best at following through. 

In my defense, the last time I recall I cut loose and absolutely blasted an individual here was when they tried to drag a 16 year old Natalie Biden into the ugliest side of politics.

The OP for that was banned and rightfully so.

Edited May 22, 2021 by AUDub

[SLAG-91 1,483]

On 5/20/2021 at 10:55 AM, SaltyTiger said:

Why not citations for no seatbelt? Studies show that they may eliminate the need for others to clean you up post accident.

Intrusive enforcement measures are proven needed with some things. Recent one that comes to mind are steep fines or jail for entering waters at our gulf beaches when “ no swim” warnings are out.

Curious if you find it intrusive that municipalities and institutions require rabies vaccinations for our pets?

My stance is that no citations should be issued for failure to wear a seatbelt in the absence of any other violations that would precipitate a stop if the driver is the sole occupant.  This is admittedly an academic exercise because I doubt traffic patrol folks are looking that closely if you're otherwise obeying the law on the roadways...also, some vehicles won't even move if the driver is not buckled in.

BUT...if you are involved in some sort of a traffic violation/accident/what-have-you, if you're not wearing your seatbelt, then insurance should not be liable for any costs incurred...it should come 100 percent out of your own pocket.  I don't know if this is the case already with car insurance or not, and I don't plan to find out.

I put on my seatbelt every time, and have done so for, well, a long time now.  As you stated, it's been clearly demonstrated that it's one hell of a good idea.  I'm not a fan of pre-emptive punishment, though.

Regarding water entry during no swim warnings, I guess my view would be similar...if you're feeling daredevil-ish and make it in and out of rough waters without incident or outside intervention, then bully for you.  If someone has to come rescue your dumb ass or, tragically, go find your corpse as a result of ill-advised behavior, then every penny of whatever it costs to take care of that should come out of your or your family's pocket.

Pets are kind of like minor children in that decisions like that must be made for them. Plus, rabies is a nasty MFer once you show symptoms, and the treatment prior to that point is a sonofagun, too.  Heck, if you are showing symptoms, you're pretty much guaranteed to die.  That one is absolutely worth the effort to limit spread because of its lethality, so rabies shots all around for pets.

Apologies for the derail.  Beer for everyone!

🍻 🍻 🍻 🍻 🍻 🍻 🍻 🍻 🍻

[MaxCohen216 514]

10 hours ago, McLoofus said:

About that "it's a personal decision" bull****. The wife of one of my best friends is in the ER today. Instead of enjoying my Saturday I am preoccupied with whether or not I'll be going to her funeral soon and if my friend's life, and those of his children and his sister-in-law who also just lost her mother, will be dramatically and forever altered for the worse.

Mid-40s, no underlying conditions. She might get put on a ventilator today. I listen to my buddy say the words "everyone I've known that's been put on a ventilator has died" just a little while ago. This is a woman who was at my wedding. I was at hers.

Admittedly, I am feeling extra emotional because this is the closest covid has come to my doorstep. But that's the whole point. Her choice not to get vaccinated is going to have a tsunami effect in her immediate circles and it is going to ripple out across many states in every direction. And it very might well break my dear friend.

It is definitely a "personal decision", especially when this experimental vaccine has not been approved by the FDA.  We can all cite emotional stories.  I know two people who have died from COVID.  But it is a personal choice whether or not to take the vaccine.  Anyone who is scared of COVID should take the vaccine, as I did.  Otherwise, it's none of anyone's business who takes the vaccine.

[homersapien 11,396]

No shirt, no shoes, no service. No vaccination, no service.

I don't see the problem here.

[MaxCohen216 514]

7 hours ago, homersapien said:

No shirt, no shoes, no service. No vaccination, no service.

I don't see the problem here.

No way. 

I'll frequent restaurants and other businesses that respect the right of the people to keep their medical records private.

My wife and I recently went to a somewhat new, local restaurant named "Tailgater's", in Alabama.  The food was excellent, and exactly as described: tailgating food.  Chicken wings, burgers, sausage combinations, fries...

We enjoyed it immensely.  But get this: inside a very crowded restaurant, no one was wearing a mask.  Not one.  Not any employees, and not a single patron.

Very refreshing.  People were allowed to make their own decision of mask wearing and vaccine acceptance. 

And masks suck.  They suck the bottom of the barrel.

[AUDub 11,158]

I'm just waiting for someone to whip out "HIPPA" here so I can snack them upside the head regarding what the law actually does lol. 

[SLAG-91 1,483]

27 minutes ago, AUDub said:

I'm just waiting for someone to whip out "HIPPA" here so I can snack them upside the head regarding what the law actually does lol. 

Don't want to get snacked upside the head, but if I do, make it the bowl of fruit salad shown below.

To keep anyone from getting the Dub-snack, HIPAA does not prohibit employers, business, et al from inquiring about vaccinations.

Now that that's out of the way, I'm not concerned about run-of-the-mill businesses checking vaccination status, particularly restaurants, grocery stores and the like that can get busy and have lots of foot traffic in and out...way more of a headache than it's worth for them, and pragmatism combined with restaurants wanting to get butts in seats again will make it a non-starter for most places. As long as their policy is clear and prominently displayed, they can do what they want. Like Max above, I'll patronize places that err on the side of leaving folks be.

Our school district has indicated that it does not intend to make this vaccination a condition of employment, which is the proper position, imo.

Edited May 24, 2021 by SLAG-91

[AUDub 11,158]

Cut me some slack, Slag. Been long day.  

Youngest turned 4.

[AUFAN78 3,916]

9 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Cut me some slack, Slag. Been long day.  

Youngest turned 4.

4? Wow, how time flies. Seems much more recent. Congrats to the youngster and fam!

[AUDub 11,158]

2 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

4? Wow, how time flies. Seems much more recent. Congrats to the youngster and fam!

She'll always be a baby to me lol, but she's already gotten too big for her own good. 

[homersapien 11,396]

1 hour ago, MaxCohen216 said:

No way. 

I'll frequent restaurants and other businesses that respect the right of the people to keep their medical records.......

You, along with the folks who refuse to wear shoes and/or a shirt.

Like I said, I don't see the problem.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by homersapien

[SLAG-91 1,483]

14 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Cut me some slack, Slag. Been long day.  

Youngest turned 4.

Good age, and happy birthday to the kiddo...couldn't let that opening go by unacknowledged, though. 

[MaxCohen216 514]

22 hours ago, homersapien said:

You, along with the folks who refuse to wear shoes and/or a shirt.

Like I said, I don't see the problem.

 

 

I agree with "No shirt, no shoes", but I can't agree with "no vaccine", although I took the vaccine.  And I'm glad that no restaurant in the two states I peruse (I live in TN but work in AL) will be allowed to require me to show proof of vaccine.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

15 hours ago, MaxCohen216 said:

I agree with "No shirt, no shoes", but I can't agree with "no vaccine", although I took the vaccine.  And I'm glad that no restaurant in the two states I peruse (I live in TN but work in AL) will be allowed to require me to show proof of vaccine.

It's just not something that should be up to you.  It should be up to store owners.  Maybe they or one of their employees can't be vaccinated right now for specific health reasons, but they still need to work and pay their bills.  They depend on those who can get vaccinated to do so.  So if the owner wants to require that only vaccinated people come in for now, that should be their right.