Vaccine passport on the way?

[AUDub 11,148]

Just now, MaxCohen216 said:

No, but I have a new grandson, and his parents (my son and his wife) have refused to take the vaccine.  Against my advice.

They have made their decision, and I respect it.  I regularly see and hold my grandson without a mask.  But then again, I've been fully vaccinated, plus I had COVID back in January.  And I discovered it was not the devil it was claimed to be.  At least not for me.  But it was a very unpleasant few days.

BTW, my son has a doctorate in Agriculture and is a professor at Auburn.  He's not stupid, yet has made a decision I don't agree with.  Wow, that's rare - a father and son who don't agree on everything.  Go figure.

Proof of vaccination is expected in public schools for your more routine vaccines. This is the "blue card" here in Alabama. Had a bitch of a time with it when we transferred the girls to Trussville due to some clerical screw-ups. I don't view this as much different, tbh.

By the way, your son may be smart as a whip. A certifiable genius, even, but genius is no defense for being wrong. Smart people can be stupid too. 

It has killed multiple people within a few degrees of me, and it put my dad on his ass for two weeks and he still has lingering respiratory issues. 

[AUDub 11,148]

1 hour ago, MaxCohen216 said:

I haven't checked lately, but I'd bet a whole dollar that proof of vaccination is not required for EXPERIMENTAL vaccines.  You know, the ones that are so new that the government has exempted the makers from liability even if the vaccines kill everybody who takes it?

This makes you sound like a crazy person. Trials were accelerated, yeah, but they were closely monitored and heavily scrutinized.

It's weird how little faith people have in modern medicine. It's not like we're throwing darts at the board in the dark in this day and age like we were with polio research and the like. Hell we even had a basic road map based upon prior research with SARS.

We've gotten so much better. 

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Taking the vaccine is a personal choice.  Especially ones that are considered "experimental".  Why in the hell should any vaccinated (and protected) person object if anyone else refuses the vaccine? 

Because the vaccine has actually proven to be a net benefit?

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Again, let me point out that the vaccine is still considered EXPERIMENTAL, and the US government has agreed to not hold vaccine makers liable even if it kills all of us who have taken it.

You really have no idea of the machinations behind EUAs and the like. You're scare-mongering, to boot. 

Don't bother playing the "unbiased observer" card here. What you are is now crystal clear. 

Quote

Edited to add: My son's wife had COVID in February, and she had very mild symptoms.  Like a normal cold.  And my son never contracted COVID, and neither did their 5 month old son, who was breast feeding.  So I can kinda see why they would be very reluctant to take an experimental vaccine.

You keep harping on "experimental" and you have little grasp of the depth of research conducted that established the efficacy and safety of the vaccines.

Edited May 18, 2021 by AUDub

[AUDub 11,148]

My 15 and 13 year olds, Ava and Sadie. Since the EUA was expanded we jumped right on it. 

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And when the EUA is further expanded Jill and Cecilia will be receiving the vaccine as well. 

Some of y'all need to learn how probabilities and risk work and:

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LOL look at this dude dumping his posts when challenged. At least my quotes stand as a monument. 

Take note, people. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

7 hours ago, AUDub said:

LOL look at this dude dumping his posts when challenged. At least my quotes stand as a monument. 

Take note, people. 

Profoundly pathetic behavior. 

[MaxCohen216 514]

22 hours ago, AUDub said:

This makes you sound like a crazy person. Trials were accelerated, yeah, but they were closely monitored and heavily scrutinized.

It's weird how little faith people have in modern medicine. It's not like we're throwing darts at the board in the dark in this day and age like we were with polio research and the like. Hell we even had a basic road map based upon prior research with SARS.

We've gotten so much better. 

Because the vaccine has actually proven to be a net benefit?

You really have no idea of the machinations behind EUAs and the like. You're scare-mongering, to boot. 

Don't bother playing the "unbiased observer" card here. What you are is now crystal clear. 

You keep harping on "experimental" and you have little grasp of the depth of research conducted that established the efficacy and safety of the vaccines.

This makes you sound like an idiot who thinks he knows everything.

The vaccines are definitely rated by the US government as "experimental".  Therefore, even though I believe in medical science and took the vaccine, I can understand how some people would be justifiably fearful, under reasonable circumstances.

For example, I know a young couple who just had a child.  The mom got the virus (verified by test), which gave her mild symptoms comparable to a routine head cold, yet her husband never got it, or at least never showed symptoms.  And their infant son never got it, even though he was breast feeding while his mom had the virus.  Why in the hell should they feel compelled to take an experimental virus?  I would advise them to take it, but why should they feel compelled to do so?

I am not scare-mongering, and you have shown yourself to be a judgemental jerk.

Did you graduate from AU, or elsewhere?  I hope elsewhere...

[MaxCohen216 514]

19 hours ago, AUDub said:

LOL look at this dude dumping his posts when challenged. At least my quotes stand as a monument. 

Take note, people. 

The reason I "dumped my post" was because I didn't want enter into an argument, especially on a fan forum.  I generally just like to state my opinion, and then live and let live.

But you seem to want to start an argument.  Fine.  I can argue too, and hold my own.  I'd rather not, but...

And your quotes are far less than "monumental".

[MaxCohen216 514]

12 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Profoundly pathetic behavior. 

Not pathetic at all.  I was just trying to avoid an argument.  But I'm up for one now.

[AUDub 11,148]

7 minutes ago, MaxCohen216 said:

Not pathetic at all.  I was just trying to avoid an argument.  But I'm up for one now.

It's a political board, man. Join the fun. 

[MaxCohen216 514]

1 minute ago, AUDub said:

It's a political board, man. Join the fun. 

OK, alright.  I'm in...

[ShocksMyBrain 9,366]

Co-worker’s father died. They’re currently claiming that the hospital provided inadequate treatment. I can’t keep myself from wondering if they had gotten him tested when he first showed signs of illness, he might still be alive. 

[AUDub 11,148]

3 hours ago, MaxCohen216 said:

This makes you sound like an idiot who thinks he knows everything.

Certainly won't claim to know everything, but I do keep abreast of the happenings in modern medicine. 

Kind of my thing seeing as I'm a clinical engineer. 

3 hours ago, MaxCohen216 said:

The vaccines are definitely rated by the US government as "experimental".  Therefore, even though I believe in medical science and took the vaccine, I can understand how some people would be justifiably fearful, under reasonable circumstances.

No that's not what "experimental" means. There were robust clinical trials and approval for their use. Even before these vaccines were authorized we had the same quality and volume of research evidence as we would for pretty much any other vaccine out there at roll out. The process was accelerated, yeah, given the urgency, but even as we speak data is still pouring in and the safety of these vaccines has only be affirmed.

It's important to note that we never stop looking for adverse events. Even after vaccines are no longer deemed "experimental," adverse event monitoring continues in perpetuity, as it does with most very well understood drugs.

I will cop to not being an immunologist, but the answer based on my knowledge of the matter is that, while the long term effects for an individual vaccine aren't able to be studied before roll out, our understanding of vaccination and immunology generally fills in those gaps. It's the short-term reactions that we're always most concerned with.

All the ingredients in a vaccine have a half-life, so they will be at their most concentrated just after vaccination and decline over days. If your body was to react to them at any point, we'd expect that to occur relatively close to the time of injection and not long after (though that's not to say delayed reactions never occur).

From the immunological side, the more severe immune reactions to the vaccine also tend to occur shortly after injection when there is higher concentration of foreign stuff and your body is just initiating the adaptive immune response (cytokine storm, all sorts of complement-associated dysfunctions etc). Regardless of the vaccine type the mechanism for this is the same, and we have enough understanding of the immune system to know what to look for.

3 hours ago, MaxCohen216 said:

For example, I know a young couple who just had a child.  The mom got the virus (verified by test), which gave her mild symptoms comparable to a routine head cold, yet her husband never got it, or at least never showed symptoms.  And their infant son never got it, even though he was breast feeding while his mom had the virus.  Why in the hell should they feel compelled to take an experimental virus?  I would advise them to take it, but why should they feel compelled to do so?

Because we can pretty much already tell actually getting the virus is more dangerous than any vaccine with a well understood mechanism is (very much what these vaccines are).

If they're worried by mRNA is some sort of boogeyman,  go with J&J. Rabies vaccine, for instance, use adenovirus vectors. 

3 hours ago, MaxCohen216 said:

I am not scare-mongering, and you have shown yourself to be a judgemental jerk.

Bouncing the word "experimental" around with nary a care for what it means reeks of it. 

3 hours ago, MaxCohen216 said:

Did you graduate from AU, or elsewhere?  I hope elsewhere...

[AUDub 11,148]

4 hours ago, MaxCohen216 said:

OK, alright.  I'm in...

Have fun with it. Welcome to ******* DEADWOOD!

[johnnyAU 3,630]

8 hours ago, AUDub said:

For example, I know a young couple who just had a child.  The mom got the virus (verified by test), which gave her mild symptoms comparable to a routine head cold, yet her husband never got it, or at least never showed symptoms.  And their infant son never got it, even though he was breast feeding while his mom had the virus.  Why in the hell should they feel compelled to take an experimental virus?  I would advise them to take it, but why should they feel compelled to do so?

I would also not get the vaccine in their situation, and they shouldn't feel compelled to do so.  The grandparents should, and anyone else with advanced age or health concerns in their families.

[AUDub 11,148]

1 hour ago, johnnyAU said:

I would also not get the vaccine in their situation, and they shouldn't feel compelled to do so.  The grandparents should, and anyone else with advanced age or health concerns in their families.

I would.

It's early but we're learning that the vaccine is likely more effective at warding off another infection than simply having had the virus itself.

On an individual level, taking a vaccine, hell any medicine at all, is always a risk/benefit proposition. Even some of the safest drugs out there have some risk associated with them.

Then you have to consider the implications for society at large. Herd immunity is the goal, and for that we need as many people vaccinated as possible. We can herd it off a cliff. There's a reason we don't administer the Polio or Smallpox vaccines in this country much. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

14 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Then you have to consider the implications for society at large.

Socialist.

[SLAG-91 1,483]

I'm all for people doing what they think is in their best interest without making a big deal out of it.

Wear a mask or two or three, or don't.

Get the vaccine or don't. Probably a good idea for the AARP crowd, absolutely a good idea for those of all ages with weak immune systems/known risk factors (obese, vitamin D deficient, HBP, COPD, et al). Young and healthy, call your shot, so to speak, and go from there.

"Live and let live" has taken a damn near mortal hit to the chest recently, and that is not limited to Covid behavior.

[McLoofus 35,182]

10 minutes ago, SLAG-91 said:

"Live and let live"

Oof. Couldn't have possibly chosen a more ironic idiom to attach to that post.

[AUDub 11,148]

24 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Oof. Couldn't have possibly chosen a more ironic idiom to attach to that post.

People acting like Libertarian ideology is a valid ideology in a pandemic. Argh.

Get on board because we need you on board if we want to get back to normal. 

[johnnyAU 3,630]

3 hours ago, AUDub said:

Then you have to consider the implications for society at large. Herd immunity is the goal, and for that we need as many people vaccinated as possible. We can herd it off a cliff. There's a reason we don't administer the Polio or Smallpox vaccines in this country much. 

Mom had Covid. The family was intimately exposed and was likely asymptomatic. All likely developed antibodies and are helping get to herd immunity naturally. It sounds like they are young, healthy and obviously in child-bearing years. In no way should they be pressured to get the vaccine.

[Leftfield 2,601]

1 hour ago, SLAG-91 said:

Wear a mask or two or three, or don't.

Get the vaccine or don't. Probably a good idea for the AARP crowd, absolutely a good idea for those of all ages with weak immune systems/known risk factors (obese, vitamin D deficient, HBP, COPD, et al). Young and healthy, call your shot, so to speak, and go from there.

"Live and let live" has taken a damn near mortal hit to the chest recently, and that is not limited to Covid behavior.

The problem is, this isn't just a choice about self. Other people's safety depends on our actions. You mention that people with weak immune systems should take the vaccine. Unfortunately, those with weak immune systems by definition may not develop an immune response when given the vaccine. My brother is one of those people. His doctor advised him to get the vaccine, anyway, as it couldn't hurt and may give some small measure of resistance, but by and large it will do him no good. Fortunately, he has been able to work from home and his wife can run out to the grocery store and other places to get necessities, but for the past year he has only left his house a handful of times in order to protect himself. Plenty of immune compromised people are not as fortunate, as their jobs will not allow them to stay at home, or they live alone and must go to the store themselves. 

The people for which vaccines offer little or no protection, or those that are otherwise at high risk (elderly, other diseases/illnesses, etc.) who could still contract COVID due to vaccines not being 100% effective, depend on the rest of society to get vaccinated and/or use masks to protect them. This is why it is so important to have the vast majority vaccinated - we will be able to return to relative normal while effectively protecting the vulnerable in our society. I understand skepticism on the part of some, but the longer people wait, the longer it will be before normal returns.

It might be different if we could depend on those who choose not to get vaccinated to wear masks, but I think everyone here will agree that isn't the case. Those who are choosing not to get vaccinated almost certainly derided masks throughout the pandemic. What is a vulnerable person to do? What responsibility does the government have to protect those who can't protect themselves, and who a significant portion of society refuses to consider?

[MaxCohen216 514]

21 hours ago, AUDub said:

Have fun with it. Welcome to ******* DEADWOOD!

OK. I guess I'm up for it.  Let's have some fun.

[MaxCohen216 514]

9 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Oof. Couldn't have possibly chosen a more ironic idiom to attach to that post.

I'm OK with irony.

[AUDub 11,148]

58 minutes ago, MaxCohen216 said:

OK. I guess I'm up for it.  Let's have some fun.

I can assure you I won't take it personally lol. 

"It can be combative."