Vaccine passport on the way?

[TitanTiger 20,481]

1 hour ago, GoAU said:

I completely agree that the “Wild West” wouldn’t be the optimal place to live.   But as long as we’re making oversimplified & extreme analogies I would say there are lots of rules in a prison too, and I wouldn’t want to live there either.    
 

I tend to believe the founding fathers had it right with the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and the amendments along the way.  The system works and it’s gotten us this far.  I also think the Federal government continues to grow beyond what was intended, and is constantly looking for new & more power / control.  They spend more time making new and more invasive laws than they do enforcing current laws because they was to appear they are “doing something “.  
 

i never made a comment about being an anarchist,  I’ll leave that to ANTIFA, but I think less government involvement where possible is the best route. 

But certain places like schools or workplaces (and possibly in the future concert venues or airlines) requiring proof of vaccination is not the federal government growing beyond anything.  The schools that require it are either doing it themselves or under state or county laws.  Everyone else is doing it as a private entity.

[GoAU 1,600]

2 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

But certain places like schools or workplaces (and possibly in the future concert venues or airlines) requiring proof of vaccination is not the federal government growing beyond anything.  The schools that require it are either doing it themselves or under state or county laws.  Everyone else is doing it as a private entity.

Where this conversation started (for me at least) was at the mention of the comment of the Biden administration investigating a potential “vaccine passport”.  The term “passport” for me implies a government issued document.   
 

Regarding schools (public) and other governmental organizations, whether state or federal, don’t you see the potential for abuse with this?   Private businesses are a different issue.  If we can all agree that a private business has the latitude to pick who they do business with in all aspects, I can get behind that.  
 

The government rarely cedes power? It’s natural tendency to to continue to encroach on individual liberties and I feel ensuring we carefully scrutinize what liberties we give up is our right and responsibility.  

[AU9377 4,929]

4 hours ago, GoAU said:

I completely agree that the “Wild West” wouldn’t be the optimal place to live.   But as long as we’re making oversimplified & extreme analogies I would say there are lots of rules in a prison too, and I wouldn’t want to live there either.    
 

I tend to believe the founding fathers had it right with the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and the amendments along the way.  The system works and it’s gotten us this far.  I also think the Federal government continues to grow beyond what was intended, and is constantly looking for new & more power / control.  They spend more time making new and more invasive laws than they do enforcing current laws because they was to appear they are “doing something “.  
 

i never made a comment about being an anarchist,  I’ll leave that to ANTIFA, but I think less government involvement where possible is the best route. 

The "they", in terms of the federal govt., is really us. Granted, too many Americans are lazy and apathetic, but they do have the power to impose change. 

The founding fathers penned a document and immediately began amending that document to better serve the purposes for which it was intended.  The 2nd Amendment is a great example of this.  During the American Revolution, the British seized all firearms in an effort to prevent rebellion.  The 2nd amendment prevents the government from doing this.  That said, those same founding fathers had no way to envision the 2nd amendment being used to protect someone's right to possess assault rifles. 

I would agree that government programs often grow and grow with no end in sight.  That said, the size of the U.S. population has made some centralized regulation critical in many areas.  We are a very stubborn nation.  That has produced an unwillingness to learn from others around the world.  We often let greed and stubborn pride get in the way of progress.  For example, the federal government spends insanely large amounts of money funding a health care system that still breaks the backs of businesses and individuals demanding more money. The system doesn't produce results that are twice as good as those in comparable countries, yet we spend twice as much.

Our military spending is also off the charts. Having a highly trained military is important, but spending as much as every other industrialized country combined is really indefensible.  Lobbyists and corporate money have contributed greatly to both of these problems.

[TitanTiger 20,481]

45 minutes ago, GoAU said:

Where this conversation started (for me at least) was at the mention of the comment of the Biden administration investigating a potential “vaccine passport”.  The term “passport” for me implies a government issued document.   

Government-issued doesn't change anything.  All it means is that rather than having 50 different state passports, they all might agree on one nationwide format issued by the federal government that can then be used, if desired, but various private entities.

 

Quote

Regarding schools (public) and other governmental organizations, whether state or federal, don’t you see the potential for abuse with this?

No.  Because they've been required for at least 40-50 years now in schools and there's been no abuse of it.  It has a specific and relevant purpose (i.e. preventing disease outbreaks in places where kids and adults are together in close quarters for several hours a day 9 months out of the year).  It's not like a vaccination record is a detailed medical history.  Knowing whether you got the COVID-19 vaccine, MMR or whatnot is not tantamount to having access to whether you have a prescription for Viagra, are being treated for an STD, or are undergoing mental health counseling.

 

Quote

  Private businesses are a different issue.  If we can all agree that a private business has the latitude to pick who they do business with in all aspects, I can get behind that.  

I think that's all we're saying - that the passport would give them the ability to verify vaccinated people and, if they choose to do so, only allow vaccinated people into their establishment or gathering.

 

Quote

The government rarely cedes power? It’s natural tendency to to continue to encroach on individual liberties and I feel ensuring we carefully scrutinize what liberties we give up is our right and responsibility.  

What liberties is this encroaching on - the ability to lie about your vaccination status?

[I_M4_AU 7,811]

11 hours ago, AU9377 said:

You added a lot of qualifications to all that... lol.  If a business asks you to wear a mask in their establishment you should.  I just don't know why you think so many people have a fear of this virus or death?

The topic of the thread is vaccine passport.  The biggest qualifier I used was vaccine.  If you have received the vaccine you’re unlikely to die from the virus.  CDC’s own numbers are 75 million Americans vaccinated and only 74 have died after receiving the vaccine.  I did the math in an earlier post and yet vaccinated people (Fauci and Biden) are still wearing the mask.

There can only be a few explanations:

1, people are not believing the science as death rates are extremely low,

2, people have been indoctrinated into the belief masks are helping with no particular science behind that if you are vaccinated, and 

3, people enjoy being virtue signalers.  This category includes those that are wearing the mask to *protect others*.

 

[CoffeeTiger 5,108]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

The topic of the thread is vaccine passport.  The biggest qualifier I used was vaccine.  If you have received the vaccine you’re unlikely to die from the virus.  CDC’s own numbers are 75 million Americans vaccinated and only 74 have died after receiving the vaccine.  I did the math in an earlier post and yet vaccinated people (Fauci and Biden) are still wearing the mask.

There can only be a few explanations:

1, people are not believing the science as death rates are extremely low,

2, people have been indoctrinated into the belief masks are helping with no particular science behind that if you are vaccinated, and 

3, people enjoy being virtue signalers.  This category includes those that are wearing the mask to *protect others*.

 

I think the leaders are still wearing a mask to be an example for the nation 'We're not asking you to do something that we ourselves aren't doing' 

About Half the eligible nations population is still unvaccinated, so it's not like we are now 100% home free and done with the virus. It's still out there and a lot of people are still susceptible to it, so people like Biden and Fauci are still encouraging mask use till that # is higher.  Polls are still showing that about 40% of Republicans are still refusing the vaccine and a lot of the group likely includes older people.

But you are right, eventually everyone will stop wearing masks and social distancing due to wide spread vaccination and we'll just have to accept that there will continue to be spreading and deaths among the anti-vax Conservatives, but at least there will be more protection for the population at large by that stage. 

[I_M4_AU 7,811]

 

A zoom call, Biden is such a tool.

[SLAG-91 1,483]

Wearing a mask post-vaccination in a room by yourself...woof. Might as well admit you're an anti-vaxxer at that point.

[TitanTiger 20,481]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

 

A zoom call, Biden is such a tool.

Again, as was said before:

I think the leaders are still wearing a mask to be an example for the nation 'We're not asking you to do something that we ourselves aren't doing' 

Yes, there's a performative aspect to it - for now.  It will go away soon but I think they're just trying to be a good example for people who still aren't vaccinated and/or live in areas with spikes in new cases.

[SLAG-91 1,483]

12 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Again, as was said before:

I think the leaders are still wearing a mask to be an example for the nation 'We're not asking you to do something that we ourselves aren't doing' 

Yes, there's a performative aspect to it - for now.  It will go away soon but I think they're just trying to be a good example for people who still aren't vaccinated and/or live in areas with spikes in new cases.

"They?"

I see one person in that collage who is wearing a mask while on a Zoom call after having been fully vaccinated.

Want to still wear one in public outside after having been vaccinated in order to set an example? Fine...I can see it. Still pretty much a gesture without any practical effect at that juncture, but OK. That would be performative.

Alone on a Zoom call post-vax? The benefit of the doubt I'd give is that he just forgot to take it off...that would be much more understandable. 

[I_M4_AU 7,811]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

Again, as was said before:

I think the leaders are still wearing a mask to be an example for the nation 'We're not asking you to do something that we ourselves aren't doing' 

Yes, there's a performative aspect to it - for now.  It will go away soon but I think they're just trying to be a good example for people who still aren't vaccinated and/or live in areas with spikes in new cases.

You can look at leadership two ways, one the you suggested and the other “come on, man.  I’m vaccinated and not having to wear a mask, you can too”.

The way Biden/Fauci are going at it; what incentive is there to getting vaccinated?

The science behind the vaccination is amazing, yet they don’t promote it.

[GoAU 1,600]

3 hours ago, SLAG-91 said:

Wearing a mask post-vaccination in a room by yourself...woof. Might as well admit you're an anti-vaxxer at that point.

He may not be in the room by himself, knowing how well Biden speaks off the cuff, I would think there could be a small army in there coaching him....

[TitanTiger 20,481]

5 hours ago, SLAG-91 said:

"They?"

I see one person in that collage who is wearing a mask while on a Zoom call after having been fully vaccinated.

Biden, Harris, Jen Psaki, others at the CDC and in the administration who choose to wear masks when on TV or in public settings.

 

5 hours ago, SLAG-91 said:

Want to still wear one in public outside after having been vaccinated in order to set an example? Fine...I can see it. Still pretty much a gesture without any practical effect at that juncture, but OK. That would be performative.

Alone on a Zoom call post-vax? The benefit of the doubt I'd give is that he just forgot to take it off...that would be much more understandable. 

He's likely wearing it anytime he may be on camera for the same reason.  Or this was a screengrab taken at the beginning of the call right before he removed it. 

[TitanTiger 20,481]

4 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

You can look at leadership two ways, one the you suggested and the other “come on, man.  I’m vaccinated and not having to wear a mask, you can too”.

The way Biden/Fauci are going at it; what incentive is there to getting vaccinated?

The science behind the vaccination is amazing, yet they don’t promote it.

I actually agree with this somewhat.  I think they should be talking about the rewards of being vaccinated more.  I think they'll shift toward that in the coming weeks, but they are being overly cautious.

[SLAG-91 1,483]

On ABC with George S.

Dr. Fauci said the CDC would soon be releasing advice about wearing masks outdoors. "I don't want to get ahead of them, George, but I think it's pretty common sense now that outdoors, the risk is really, really quite low, particularly if you were a vaccinated person wearing a mask outdoorsI mean, obviously the risk is miniscule. What I believe the country is going to be hearing soon is updated guidelines from the CDC. The CDC is a science-based organization. They don't want to make any guidelines unless they look at the data and the data backs it up. But when you look around at the common sense situation, obviously the risk is really very low, particularly if you're vaccinated."
 

This has been common sense pretty much the whole damned time, Doc. 

[bigbird 60,522]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/23/mit-researchers-say-youre-no-safer-from-covid-indoors-at-6-feet-or-60-feet-in-new-study.html

 

 

[TitanTiger 20,481]

I'm done debating this with an intellectually dishonest person.  In the future if you make a false claim here and refuse to own up to it, I'll just give you a vacation for a little bit and let you think about it.  I'm not wasting time and derailing threads with people who refuse to argue in good faith.

[TitanTiger 20,481]

On 4/23/2021 at 1:53 PM, I_M4_AU said:

 

A zoom call, Biden is such a tool.

For the record, this claim about the call is also false:
 

The images included in the post are authentic, but they present only a brief moment from the entire event, which had eight sessions that ran from 8 a.m. EDT to midday over the course of two days.

Additionally, the photos single out the screens of 15 to 20 participants, while more than 40 world leaders, 14 Cabinet members, eight CEOs and Pope Francis were in attendance.

Biden also was not alone in a room while wearing his mask, as some of the posts claim. He was joined by Vice President Kamala Harris, national climate adviser Gina McCarthy and White House climate envoy John Kerry, who was also pictured wearing a mask.

 

Other leaders wore masks

A review of additional photos and videos from the summit reveals Biden was not the only leader at the summit wearing a mask.

Images taken by Lee Jin-wook for Yonhap News Agency show all 40 screens, in which Argentinian President Alberto Fernández, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, Japanese Prime Minister Yoshihide Suga and Prime Minister of Bhutan Lotay Tshering are seen wearing masks.

In another photo from Li Xiang for Xinhua News, Italian Prime Minister Mario Draghi, Suga and Biden are captured wearing masks on the first day of the summit.

It is also worth noting that Biden did not wear a mask during the entire summit; it was removed when he would address leaders at the event and when he was socially distanced from others.

 

President Joe Biden speaks to the virtual Leaders Summit on Climate, from the East Room of the White House, Friday, April 23, 2021, in Washington. (AP Photo/Evan Vucci)

A White House video of Biden at the summit shows him removing his mask and placing it on the lectern before he starts delivering remarks. He is seen taking off his mask again at mark 1:41:59 in a livestream from Guardian News.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/news/fact-check-biden-not-only-015200763.html

 

 

[SLAG-91 1,483]

Maybe starting to see a bit of light on the horizon...went to vote Saturday (school board election...it's been fruit basket turnover on our board this year) and masks were recommended. First time I'd seen that, as opposed to required.

Saw where Tennessee is not extending any of its previous orders as of today...hope the Governor doesn't change his mind on that by the time I visit in June.

[Bottomfeeder 244]

Science says ferrets can shed the virus.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-21918-6

Quote

H1N1 size is 80 to 120 nm in diameter

SARS-CoV-2 size: 

Upon analysis of negative-stained SARS-CoV-2 articles by electron microscopy, different researchers have had varying results, but the diameter of the virus has been found to range between 50 nm to 140 nm.

In addition to measuring the spherical size of the virus particle, it has also been confirmed that the length of the size tumors surrounding the outermost surface of SARS-CoV-2 can vary in length from 9 to 12 nm.

Whilst N95 masks from different producers may have slightly different specifications, the protective capabilities offered by N95 masks are largely attributed to the masks’ obligation to remove at least 95% of all particles with an average diameter of 300 nm or less.

https://www.news-medical.net/health/The-Size-of-SARS-CoV-2-Compared-to-Other-Things.aspx

Quote

Droplets spewed from a sneeze, laugh or cough tend to be larger than five microns in size. (Five microns is about one-tenth the width of a thin strand of human hair.)

Many researchers argue that these dense droplets, thanks to gravity, fall to ground, about six feet away from the person sending them forth, and that’s how COVID-19 spreads — just like most respiratory diseases. You inhale a droplet or pick one up from surfaces.

But compared to droplets of such size, aerosols behave much differently. As tiny particles, they can float much greater distances than two metres, attach to dust and hover in the air for hours. They can travel on air currents, too. That means any poorly ventilated room could infect a pile of people in short order.

https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2021/04/26/COVID-Variants-Aerosol-Transmission/

Quote

It's airborne folks.

Quote

2. The virus floats through vents. In Australia, people staying in quarantine hotels in separate rooms have acquired COVID-19 — proving that aerosols can move through ventilation systems that are largely designed to control odours, not viruses.  

Caged animals such as ferrets have infected other ferrets connected only by a shared air duct with lots of right angles to capture large particles, illustrating once again the role of aerosols in transmission.

And researchers have found COVID-19 trapped in air filters and building ducts in hospitals with COVID-19 patients. Heavier droplets can’t float into those areas.

https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2021/04/26/COVID-Variants-Aerosol-Transmission/

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00869-2/fulltext

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6959339/

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Bottomfeeder

[AURex 1,995]

Wifey and I have been vaccinated. We will only go on vacation to locations where evewryone else has been vaccinated.

As for all the anti-vaxxers and deniers -- hey, do your own thing. We won't be there.

Freedom of choice. This is OUR choice.

 

[GoAU 1,600]

6 hours ago, AURex said:

Wifey and I have been vaccinated. We will only go on vacation to locations where evewryone else has been vaccinated.

As for all the anti-vaxxers and deniers -- hey, do your own thing. We won't be there.

Freedom of choice. This is OUR choice.

 

Thats awsome, enjoy yourself and I'm glad youll be able to get out again.  Not exactly sure where you'll be heading that requires proof of vaccination, but tell the other comrades we said hello.   I've been enjoying FL - will share pics if you miss it!  

[johnnyAU 3,630]

8 hours ago, AURex said:

Wifey and I have been vaccinated. We will only go on vacation to locations where evewryone else has been vaccinated.

As for all the anti-vaxxers and deniers -- hey, do your own thing. We won't be there.

Freedom of choice. This is OUR choice.

 

LOL, when you get there, remember to double-mask and social distance, especially when outside. I hear it's the best way to virtue signal these days. 

[CoffeeTiger 5,108]

3 hours ago, GoAU said:

  Not exactly sure where you'll be heading that requires proof of vaccination, but tell the other comrades we said hello.   I've been enjoying FL - will share pics if you miss it!  

Likely not many places in the U.S., but if you plan to travel outside of the U.S., many other countries will probably require proof of vaccination for you to enter. 

 

[I_M4_AU 7,811]

@TitanTigerand yet President Biden held a State of the Union speech last night with a limited number in attendance and all participants were vaccinated and wearing masks.  What message does this send to those that have not been vaccinated?