Jon Stewart: Trump isn't some incredible supervillain

[I_M4_AU 7,986]

11 hours ago, AUDub said:

This what it takes to get elected as a Republican now. 

Kneel before the altar of Trump. 

This is what the first question was from a moderator in a debate for governor?  This is the problem with the *MSM* media.  Going forward in Minnesota depends on what a Republican Gubernatorial candidate believes to be true about an election that was oh so last year?  Talk about dog whistles.  It doesn’t matter if they think Biden is legitimate or not to govern Minnesota.

You bring up yet another reason we are so divided in this country.

[autigeremt 6,686]

On 12/13/2021 at 9:51 AM, AUDub said:

He's right. Trump is simply a reflection of what a large segment of this country wants now. He's ultimately a symptom, not the disease. 

The disease is the decades of erosion to the republic that led to the opportunity for a Trump to become the leader of the free world. The United States hasn't had real leadership for some time. It's been "led" by ideology not by what's best for the entirety of the country. 

[bigbird 60,580]

25 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I didn't say anything about the DNC fixing the primary, which is clearly what you're insinuating here.

That wasn't my intent, at all. I'm sorry it came across that way.

What I was trying to get across was that you and I agreed that Bernie couldn't have beaten Trump and that's why Biden was chosen as the nominee or at least a major selling point.  I don't think there was anything malicious about how they went about choosing Biden, just that he was chosen because he could more readily beat Trump than the other candidates.

 

My bad for not being clearer.

[autigeremt 6,686]

16 hours ago, bigbird said:

There has been far too much nose holding in our elections lately

Choice between sh!@ and manure. 

[bigbird 60,580]

3 minutes ago, autigeremt said:

Choice between sh!@ and manure. 

Precisely

[McLoofus 35,182]

9 minutes ago, bigbird said:

That wasn't my intent, at all. I'm sorry it came across that way.

What I was trying to get across was that you and I agreed that Bernie couldn't have beaten Trump and that's why Biden was chosen as the nominee or at least a major selling point.  I don't think there was anything malicious about how they went about choosing Biden, just that he was chosen because he could more readily beat Trump than the other candidates.

My bad for not being clearer.

Gotcha. My apologies for misunderstanding. Thanks for clarifying.

[McLoofus 35,182]

As for only having bad choices, that doesn't mean they're equally bad. "Ineffectual old guy who is just more of the same" is still a hell of a lot better than "existential threat to democracy, or at least trying really hard to be". That such false equivalencies and normalizing persist even after January 6th is exactly what @AUDub is trying to get across. 

The GOP has gone full fascist and many of you seem much more sympathetic to that than to whatever you believe the Democratic platform to be. 

[AUDub 11,182]

I sort of blame South Park. Love the show but damn if it didn't breed a generation of nihilistic "enlightened centrists."

[McLoofus 35,182]

8 minutes ago, AUDub said:

I sort of blame South Park. Love the show but damn if it didn't breed a generation of nihilistic "enlightened centrists."

Blame Canada South Park

[bigbird 60,580]

16 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Gotcha. My apologies for misunderstanding. Thanks for clarifying.

You're welcome, thanks for letting me.

[AUDub 11,182]

37 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

This is what the first question was from a moderator in a debate for governor?  This is the problem with the *MSM* media.  Going forward in Minnesota depends on what a Republican Gubernatorial candidate believes to be true about an election that was oh so last year?  Talk about dog whistles.  It doesn’t matter if they think Biden is legitimate or not to govern Minnesota.

You bring up yet another reason we are so divided in this country.

As much as you want to handwave away the Big Lie, this is a very telling indicator for where the Republican Party is right now. Again,  kneel before the altar of Trump.

I literally brought up our own Senate race between Brooks and Britt and how she, Shelby's protégé and a reasonable Republican if there ever was one, is having to tip toe around the Big Lie to avoid tanking her candidacy. 

And it's honestly pretty frightening. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

12 minutes ago, AUDub said:

As much as you want to handwave away the Big Lie, this is a very telling indicator for where the Republican Party is right now. Again,  kneel before the altar of Trump.

I literally brought up our own Senate race between Brooks and Britt and how she, Shelby's protégé and a reasonable Republican if there ever was one, is having to tip toe around the Big Lie to avoid tanking her candidacy. 

And it's honestly pretty frightening. 

Just watching the backtracking in the conversation on this board is concerning. Early on they denied that trump would resist the peaceful transition of power. That quickly morphed into it not mattering because he didn't succeed*. And that's not just from the more obvious zealots- who explicitly express more concern over bricks being thrown through store windows in liberal cities- either. It is very pronounced in and by the self-proclaimed centrists, too.

*I say "didn't succeed" rather than failed because, as you said, he's still got the GOP by the balls and he's got 60% of them believing that the election was stolen. 

[AUDub 11,182]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

It is very pronounced in and by the self-proclaimed centrists, too.

In my experience the majority of people that proclaim themselves centrist are really just nihilists. You know the type. "lol nothing matters and both sides are the same and you're dumb for not realizing that."

Edited December 16, 2021 by AUDub

[homersapien 11,440]

On 12/15/2021 at 2:28 PM, I_M4_AU said:

You received two responses that explained why there is divisiveness from one perspective.  As usual, those responses are to blame one side for all the problems which, in turn, points out that we are still divided as a country.  I’m not sure how we move forward, but our current leadership (no matter what political party we are talking about) is not going to unify this country.

We had compromise when both parties were more closely aligned to the center, but now it seems the politicians are moving toward the extremes of the movement they represent.   God help us.

Not sure how you intended that, but it comes across as identifying with authoritarian fascism, which is the ideology of most global authoritarian populist movements.

(And before you counter with "yadda yadda communism", that's just another flavor of authoritarianism that also originated in populism.  And please, democratic socialism is in no way related to communism.)

Bottom line, since "one side" - by definition - implies another side, what other side are you referring to?

 

Edited December 17, 2021 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,440]

21 hours ago, bigbird said:

There has been far too much nose Iholding in our elections lately

IMO, our system makes that inevitable.

Unfortunately, it would take a constitutional overhaul to change it.

Edited December 16, 2021 by homersapien

[bigbird 60,580]

Just now, homersapien said:

IMO, our system makes that inevitable.

Unfortunately, it would take a constitutional overall to change it.

I think having a 3rd or 4th party would fix a lot of it too

[homersapien 11,440]

4 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

This is what the first question was from a moderator in a debate for governor?  This is the problem with the *MSM* media.  Going forward in Minnesota depends on what a Republican Gubernatorial candidate believes to be true about an election that was oh so last year?  Talk about dog whistles.  It doesn’t matter if they think Biden is legitimate or not to govern Minnesota.

You bring up yet another reason we are so divided in this country.

I don't think you have been paying much attention to what passes for the Republican Party nowadays.

(Hint: It has nothing to do with "conservatism".)

 

[homersapien 11,440]

4 hours ago, autigeremt said:

The disease is the decades of erosion to the republic that led to the opportunity for a Trump to become the leader of the free world. The United States hasn't had real leadership for some time. It's been "led" by ideology not by what's best for the entirety of the country. 

What do you mean by that?

1) Are you saying the ideology has remained the same for both parties?  or

2) Each party has different ideologies reflected in their platforms but neither has addressed what's "best for the entire country"?

 

[homersapien 11,440]

30 minutes ago, bigbird said:

I think having a 3rd or 4th party would fix a lot of it too

Well, I was actually thinking of switching to a parliamentary system.

And it's the two party system that I think our constitution makes inevitable.

But I could be wrong.  For example, our constitution doesn't mandate "winner take all" electoral appropriation or does it disallow proportional voting (as two specific examples of change that might change a two party system).

I just think we are past due for a constitutional overhaul.

Edited December 16, 2021 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,440]

3 hours ago, AUDub said:

In my experience the majority of people that proclaim themselves centrist are really just nihilists. You know the type. "lol nothing matters and both sides are the same and you're dumb for not realizing that."

David, is that you? 

Edited December 16, 2021 by homersapien

[CoffeeTiger 5,169]

4 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

This is what the first question was from a moderator in a debate for governor?  This is the problem with the *MSM* media.  Going forward in Minnesota depends on what a Republican Gubernatorial candidate believes to be true about an election that was oh so last year?  Talk about dog whistles.  It doesn’t matter if they think Biden is legitimate or not to govern Minnesota.

You bring up yet another reason we are so divided in this country.

 

Is it really "divisive" to want government officials to be able to accept reality and to acknowledge that they believe in America and our system of government and our federal system? 

If It makes me "divisive" to not want people who believe in some wild conspiracy about the 2020 election to have powerful positions in our government then I'll be proudly "divisive". 

 

I know that right now the GOP has some very,,very,,,very low standards for the candidates they are putting up for elected office....but there has to be some kind of standard here you'd be willing to accept. 

[I_M4_AU 7,986]

5 hours ago, AUDub said:

As much as you want to handwave away the Big Lie, this is a very telling indicator for where the Republican Party is right now. Again,  kneel before the altar of Trump.

Each election there are people that resist the outcome.  It is hilarious to see the Democrats push the *Big Lie* conspiracy after literally nobody with political clout has denied that Biden is the President of the U.S.  They have said that we need to tighten up voter regulations and are not for HR1 Voter Rights Act the Democrats want to pass.

The only people keeping the *Big Lie* talk alive is the Dems and the Reps aren’t listening.  If the Dems are so good at running the country why do we have such division when the Dems control Congress and the White House?

[I_M4_AU 7,986]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

I don't think you have been paying much attention to what passes for the Republican Party nowadays.

(Hint: It has nothing to do with "conservatism".)

 

Do you really believe most Republicans/Conservatives agree with David Brooks and what he has written as of late?  You are so easily duped. 

[I_M4_AU 7,986]

1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Is it really "divisive" to want government officials to be able to accept reality and to acknowledge that they believe in America and our system of government and our federal system? 

I agree government officials should accept the reality and acknowledge the belief in the public elections.  It is a shame Stacy Abrams (the true Governor of Ga), Terry McAulife (never accepted the 2000 Presidential results), the FBI, CIA and a few others didn’t really believe elections were fair.  I don’t see you expounding about their *Big Lie*.

Did you see Hillary giving her acceptance speech the other day, five years after her defeat.

I would copy it here, but it is just too painful for me to sit through.

[CoffeeTiger 5,169]

 

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

I agree government officials should accept the reality and acknowledge the belief in the public elections.  It is a shame Stacy Abrams (the true Governor of Ga), Terry McAulife (never accepted the 2000 Presidential results), the FBI, CIA and a few others didn’t really believe elections were fair.  I don’t see you expounding about their *Big Lie*.

Did you see Hillary giving her acceptance speech the other day, five years after her defeat.

I would copy it here, but it is just too painful for me to sit through.

 

But but but...2000! There are a couple of Democrats who didn't accept that result 20 years ago. See both parties are exactly the same!

 

also, hillary delivered the speech as a masterclass...she's not claiming she won.