If Elections Are To Be Trusted, They Must Be Trustworthy

[AUFAN78 4,174]

The way we cast our ballots matters. Some methods are not secure. Some methods are overly complicated. Some methods are not transparent. Any of these shortcomings is enough to undermine public confidence in the outcomes of our elections – and thus undermine our democracy itself.

“Absentee ballots remain the largest source of potential voter fraud,” concluded a 2005 report from a bipartisan commission co-chaired by former President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James Baker.

“Vote buying schemes are far more difficult to detect when citizens vote by mail,” the Carter-Baker Commission adds, recommending that states prohibit third-party organizations, activists, parties, and candidates from handling absentee ballots. In 2020, however, states across the country embraced absentee ballot drop boxes, making it even easier for partisan activists to engage in “ballot harvesting” by collecting absentee ballots of unknown legitimacy and depositing them in privately funded drop boxes, either under cover of darkness or while masking their faces.

Paper ballots, cast in person and counted by hand, are the gold standard. They are accountable, transparent, and inclusive – the three conditions that the U.S. Agency for International Development applies when it evaluates the fairness of foreign elections.

We know how to conduct free and fair elections in a manner that inspires widespread confidence in the results. It’s time we go back to doing it.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2022/05/01/if_elections_are_to_be_trusted_they_must_be_trustworthy_147542.html

[aubiefifty 18,564]

quit posting this crap until you are old enough to vote kid..............lol

[AU9377 6,195]

Absentee ballots are verified, therefore they aren't of "unknown legitimacy."

This is pure garbage...."In 2020, however, states across the country embraced absentee ballot drop boxes, making it even easier for partisan activists to engage in “ballot harvesting” by collecting absentee ballots of unknown legitimacy and depositing them in privately funded drop boxes, either under cover of darkness or while masking their faces."

Privately funded drop boxes?  Not in Georgia.

Under cover of darkness?  It gets dark at 5:30 - 6:00 that time of year.

While masking their faces?  Really? You ever hear of that pandemic thingy?

This is the kind of nonsense that is dangerous to our democracy.  You don't like that you lost the election.  You really don't like the fact that brown people outworked you.  I get it.  Work harder and present better candidates and you will likely win. Trying to change the rules simply to give you an advantage is not how you work harder.

[AUFAN78 4,174]

3 hours ago, AU9377 said:

Absentee ballots are verified, therefore they aren't of "unknown legitimacy."

This is pure garbage...."In 2020, however, states across the country embraced absentee ballot drop boxes, making it even easier for partisan activists to engage in “ballot harvesting” by collecting absentee ballots of unknown legitimacy and depositing them in privately funded drop boxes, either under cover of darkness or while masking their faces."

Privately funded drop boxes?  Not in Georgia.

Under cover of darkness?  It gets dark at 5:30 - 6:00 that time of year.

While masking their faces?  Really? You ever hear of that pandemic thingy?

This is the kind of nonsense that is dangerous to our democracy.  You don't like that you lost the election.  You really don't like the fact that brown people outworked you.  I get it.  Work harder and present better candidates and you will likely win. Trying to change the rules simply to give you an advantage is not how you work harder.

If you would simply read the article LDQ and stop getting your knickers twisted it would help.

 

The articles theme is trust in elections. 

According to the latest Economist/YouGov Poll, three-quarters (75%) of registered voters think voter fraud occurred during the 2020 presidential election.

That is a staggering number by any measure. 3 out of 4 Americans think fraud occurred in our 2020 election. That should be unacceptable to all Americans. 

We have to change our process from the one used in 2020. So yes, ballet harvesting has to be addressed, drop box fraud has to be addressed, etc., etc. 

Failure to address and correct voter fraud undermines public confidence in the outcomes of our elections – and thus undermines our democracy itself.

Edited May 2, 2022 by AUFAN78

[CoffeeTiger 6,039]

25 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

 

According to the latest Economist/YouGov Poll, three-quarters (75%) of registered voters think voter fraud occurred during the 2020 presidential election.

 

I don't know where you got that poll or what it's methodology was, but most other polls and survey's don't support that outcome. Maybe 75% of REPUBLICAN voters believe the election was fraudulent because Trump told them to think that, but not 75% of ALL registered voters. 

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-12-28/poll-a-third-of-americans-question-legitimacy-of-biden-victory-nearly-a-year-since-jan-6

33% say the election was illegitimate 

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/559402-one-third-of-americans-believe-biden-won-because-of-voter-fraud-poll/

32% say the election was fraudulent. 

https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3810

29% say the election was fraudulent.

https://poll.qu.edu/Poll-Release?releaseid=3734

38% say there was widespread fraud 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/context/dec-17-19-2021-washington-post-university-of-maryland-poll/2960c330-4bbd-4b3a-af9d-72de946d7281/?itid=lk_inline_manual_2

29% say the election was not legitimate. 

 

And keep in mind these # include anywhere from 60-90% of Republicans who always say there was fraud. The #'s of non-Republicans who don't trust our elections is far, far lower. 

 

25 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

That is a staggering number by any measure. 3 out of 4 Americans think fraud occurred in our 2020 election. That should be unacceptable to all Americans. 

As pointed out above. That's maybe 3 out of 4 REPUBLICANS...not Americans that believe that. 

 

25 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

We have to change our process from the one used in 2020. So yes, ballet harvesting has to be addressed, drop box fraud has to be addressed, etc., etc. 

Failure to address and correct voter fraud undermines public confidence in the outcomes of our elections – and thus undermines our democracy itself.

uh..huh...make up a problem...become really mad about it...then use that anger as justification to make widespread unneeded changes to make voting harder and more inconvenient (especially for lower income minorities in cities). 

The ultimate Republican voting setup would be to have enough voting options in rural areas for everyone to vote fairly quickly and easily with various voting options while limiting voting options in the cities, decreasing voting places, and making voting in bigger cities as inconvenient and time consuming as possible. That's the ultimate goal of these voting bills the Republicans are ramming down our throat's. 

Along with tearing away oversight from independent election boards and giving partisan governors offices more control over the election oversight. Republicans are wanting to give themselves more power over the elections...it may make Republicans happy to know the elections are tilted in their favor institutionally, but it's not going to help increase voter confidence from anyone else. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by CoffeeTiger

[AUFAN78 4,174]

1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

I don't know where you got that poll or what it's methodology was

I quoted the poll. Economist/YouGov which FiveThirtyEight gives a B+ 89% accuracy. Compare to those you listed if you dare.  

And I am sorry to inform, but the poll included all parties, not simply Republicans.

1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

uh..huh...make up a problem...become really mad about it...then use that anger as justification to make widespread unneeded changes to make voting harder and more inconvenient (especially for lower income minorities in cities). 

You'll have to consult YouGov, I didn't invent the problem nor the poll and I have nothing to be mad about. I posted an article regarding the need for confidence in elections. I wholeheartedly agree. It is an obvious problem with poll numbers affirming the point. 

We need more scrutiny with regard to absentee ballots and we need security at drop boxes. Why would anyone oppose those things unless for nefarious reasons? 

Voting isn't hard. Took me a couple hours to vote. Inconvenient sure. Difficulty near zero. 

[CoffeeTiger 6,039]

12 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

I quoted the poll. Economist/YouGov which FiveThirtyEight gives a B+ 89% accuracy. Compare to those you listed if you dare.  

And I am sorry to inform, but the poll included all parties, not simply Republicans.

You'll have to consult YouGov, I didn't invent the problem nor the poll and I have nothing to be mad about. I posted an article regarding the need for confidence in elections. I wholeheartedly agree. It is an obvious problem with poll numbers affirming the point. 

We need more scrutiny with regard to absentee ballots and we need security at drop boxes. Why would anyone oppose those things unless for nefarious reasons? 

Voting isn't hard. Took me a couple hours to vote. Inconvenient sure. Difficulty near zero. 

 

I'll take the results of multiple more recent polls that are all consistent in their findings over your one poll that was taken just 1 week after the election Nov 8-10. 

 

If you think the results of 1 Yougov poll from ~1,500 people taken a few days after the election is enough proof to justify overhauling the entire nation's election system then whatever, but that's not an accurate representation of what America at large believes about our election system. 

 

[AUFAN78 4,174]

2 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

I'll take the results of multiple more recent polls that are all consistent in their findings over your one poll that was taken just 1 week after the election Nov 8-10. 

 

If you think the results of 1 Yougov poll from ~1,500 people taken a few days after the election is enough proof to justify overhauling the entire nation's election system then whatever, but that's not an accurate representation of what America at large believes about our election system. 

 

Well, I'm not a fan of polls in general, but I like Nate and 538. If he tells me they are 89% accurate I believe him. Not to mention I work almost exclusively with democrats and this poll lines up with their thoughts. 

But you are free to believe whatever makes you sleep at night. 

[wdefromtx 3,910]

Lol…Trust the data and the polls….until one is done by a legit pollster that is considered to be pretty reliable doesn’t agree with your beliefs. 
 

Shocked, I tell ya shocked…

[TexasTiger 14,612]

On 5/1/2022 at 6:53 PM, AUFAN78 said:

The way we cast our ballots matters. Some methods are not secure. Some methods are overly complicated. Some methods are not transparent. Any of these shortcomings is enough to undermine public confidence in the outcomes of our elections – and thus undermine our democracy itself.

“Absentee ballots remain the largest source of potential voter fraud,” concluded a 2005 report from a bipartisan commission co-chaired by former President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James Baker.

“Vote buying schemes are far more difficult to detect when citizens vote by mail,” the Carter-Baker Commission adds, recommending that states prohibit third-party organizations, activists, parties, and candidates from handling absentee ballots. In 2020, however, states across the country embraced absentee ballot drop boxes, making it even easier for partisan activists to engage in “ballot harvesting” by collecting absentee ballots of unknown legitimacy and depositing them in privately funded drop boxes, either under cover of darkness or while masking their faces.

Paper ballots, cast in person and counted by hand, are the gold standard. They are accountable, transparent, and inclusive – the three conditions that the U.S. Agency for International Development applies when it evaluates the fairness of foreign elections.

We know how to conduct free and fair elections in a manner that inspires widespread confidence in the results. It’s time we go back to doing it.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2022/05/01/if_elections_are_to_be_trusted_they_must_be_trustworthy_147542.html

Do you think absentee ballots should be allowed in any circumstances?

[homersapien 12,387]

19 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

Lol…Trust the data and the polls….until one is done by a legit pollster that is considered to be pretty reliable doesn’t agree with your beliefs. 
 

Shocked, I tell ya shocked…

What poll?  Got a link to that poll in question? (It certainly didn't exist in the op).

This started as a Facebook claim which was quickly debunked.  

And the link that was  provided was simply an opinion piece by a right winger trying to perpetuate the big lie in order to further restrict voting access.

No way 75% of the electorate thinks the outcome of the 2020 election was false. 

That's complete BS

 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/feb/02/viral-image/no-most-americans-dont-believe-2020-election-was-f/

No, most Americans don’t believe the 2020 election was fraudulent

Claims that the 2020 election was fraudulent have been repeatedly disproven through exhaustive audits, recounts, reports and reviews. But is it true that more than 65% of the nation still believes the narrative has merit?

No. But a widely shared Facebook claim asserts just as much:

"Over 65% of the country believes that (the) 2020 election was fraudulent. That number was around 35% a year ago," the Jan. 30 post claimed in words above a photo.

This post was flagged as part of Facebook’s efforts to combat false news and misinformation on its News Feed.

We reviewed 14 surveys that fleshed out polling on Americans’ attitudes about the 2020 election outcome and found none that back up this claim. However, surveys examining public sentiment around the 2020 election showed a clear partisan divide. Democrats typically believed there was no widespread voter fraud and Biden’s win was legitimate, while Republicans overwhelmingly said they doubted the election’s legitimacy.

In at least three surveys we found, the percentage of Republicans who said they didn’t trust the election came in around 65%.

The number of people overall who believe the election was fraudulent has hovered around 35% since November 2020, but this percentage has not increased significantly as the claim purports......

 

 

MAGA cultists will believe anything as long as it supports their cult beliefs. 

I suggest you pull your head out of your ass.  But if you do, I'll be shocked, I tell ya, shocked!

 

[wdefromtx 3,910]

34 minutes ago, homersapien said:

What poll?  Got a link to that poll in question? (It certainly didn't exist in the op).

This started as a Facebook claim which was quickly debunked.  

And the link that was  provided was simply an opinion piece by a right winger trying to perpetuate the big lie in order to further restrict voting access.

No way 75% of the electorate thinks the outcome of the 2020 election was false. 

That's complete BS

 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/feb/02/viral-image/no-most-americans-dont-believe-2020-election-was-f/

No, most Americans don’t believe the 2020 election was fraudulent

Claims that the 2020 election was fraudulent have been repeatedly disproven through exhaustive audits, recounts, reports and reviews. But is it true that more than 65% of the nation still believes the narrative has merit?

No. But a widely shared Facebook claim asserts just as much:

"Over 65% of the country believes that (the) 2020 election was fraudulent. That number was around 35% a year ago," the Jan. 30 post claimed in words above a photo.

This post was flagged as part of Facebook’s efforts to combat false news and misinformation on its News Feed.

We reviewed 14 surveys that fleshed out polling on Americans’ attitudes about the 2020 election outcome and found none that back up this claim. However, surveys examining public sentiment around the 2020 election showed a clear partisan divide. Democrats typically believed there was no widespread voter fraud and Biden’s win was legitimate, while Republicans overwhelmingly said they doubted the election’s legitimacy.

In at least three surveys we found, the percentage of Republicans who said they didn’t trust the election came in around 65%.

The number of people overall who believe the election was fraudulent has hovered around 35% since November 2020, but this percentage has not increased significantly as the claim purports......

 

 

MAGA cultists will believe anything as long as it supports their cult beliefs. 

I suggest you pull your head out of your ass.  But if you do, I'll be shocked, I tell ya, shocked!

 

Obviously you didn’t even go find the YouGov poll in question. I found it fairly easy after doing a search. 
 

Typical leftist….if it doesn’t fall in line with your delusional ways and bias you ignore it. 
 

I suggest to pull your head out of your cult leaders ass. 

[homersapien 12,387]

4 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

Obviously you didn’t even go find the YouGov poll in question. I found it fairly easy after doing a search. 
 

Typical leftist….if it doesn’t fall in line with your delusional ways and bias you ignore it. 
 

I suggest to pull your head out of your cult leaders 

I didn't find the poll. And no one has posted the link, not even the op.

If there is a poll that says 65% of Americans think the 2020 election was fraudulent, and you "found it easily", then please post the link.

And what "cult leader"?  You think Democrats behave like a cult?

 

 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by homersapien

[homersapien 12,387]

4 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

Obviously you didn’t even go find the YouGov poll in question. I found it fairly easy after doing a search. 
 

Typical leftist….if it doesn’t fall in line with your delusional ways and bias you ignore it. 
 

I suggest to pull your head out of your cult leaders ass. 

Are you referring to this poll?

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/6tarkt5kkk/econoplines.pdf

If so, I can understand why you didn't want to provide the link, because it doesn't say what you want it to, it doesn't even ask the question.

Sounds to me like you are the one ignoring reality due to "delusional ways" and "bias", not to mention pulling your head out of your ass.

Or at least do your fact check before blindly backing up anything that 78 says.  He's perpetually confused. 

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by homersapien

[DKW 86 7,976]

4 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

Obviously you didn’t even go find the YouGov poll in question. I found it fairly easy after doing a search. 
 

Typical leftist….if it doesn’t fall in line with your delusional ways and bias you ignore it. 
 

I suggest to pull your head out of your cult leaders ass. 

Link demanded...

 

[AUFAN78 4,174]

9 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Do you think absentee ballots should be allowed in any circumstances?

I do. Those invalid and overseas military as a couple examples. 

We need to remain cautious and careful. COVID offered the perfect example and I agreed with it's rules at the time. But let's not deflect or diminish the affect. To some it was obvious, others not so much. Not tooting my horn, but I called it post election and within hours. To me, it was obvious rule changes to absentee ballots changed the outcome as it did for millions of Americans. We can argue those processes ad nauseum, but truthfully, everyone that is honest knows their affect.

I do think for transparency's sake there has to rules governing the process. For example, you can't produce ballots 100% for one party from mental health facility's or a reasonable facsimile. That will always produce questions of legitimacy. Whether we like to admit it or not, that happened 2020. We can do better and should for the sake of  transparency, integrity and most importantly democracy. 

[wdefromtx 3,910]

57 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Link demanded...

 

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/9j7sr0my95/econTabReport.pdf

[wdefromtx 3,910]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Are you referring to this poll?

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/6tarkt5kkk/econoplines.pdf

If so, I can understand why you didn't want to provide the link, because it doesn't say what you want it to, it doesn't even ask the question.

Sounds to me like you are the one ignoring reality due to "delusional ways" and "bias", not to mention pulling your head out of your ass.

Or at least do your fact check before blindly backing up anything that 78 says.  He's perpetually confused. 

 

Wrong poll…

 

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/9j7sr0my95/econTabReport.pdf

[AUFAN78 4,174]

6 hours ago, homersapien said:

What poll?  Got a link to that poll in question? (It certainly didn't exist in the op).

This started as a Facebook claim which was quickly debunked.  

And the link that was  provided was simply an opinion piece by a right winger trying to perpetuate the big lie in order to further restrict voting access.

No way 75% of the electorate thinks the outcome of the 2020 election was false. 

That's complete BS

The You/Gov poll. 

Facebook? LOL

You/Gov is not right wing.

Dismiss accuracy in favor of bias? LOL 

[AUFAN78 4,174]

5 hours ago, homersapien said:

I didn't find the poll. And no one has posted the link, not even the op.

If there is a poll that says 65% of Americans think the 2020 election was fraudulent, and you "found it easily", then please post the link.

And what "cult leader"?  You think Democrats behave like a cult?

More like did not want to find the poll. LOL

SMH

This is a trick question right?

[AUFAN78 4,174]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Are you referring to this poll?

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/6tarkt5kkk/econoplines.pdf

If so, I can understand why you didn't want to provide the link, because it doesn't say what you want it to, it doesn't even ask the question.

Sounds to me like you are the one ignoring reality due to "delusional ways" and "bias", not to mention pulling your head out of your ass.

Or at least do your fact check before blindly backing up anything that 78 says.  He's perpetually confused. 

Nope

No. SMH

Wow, you speak to reality too? And bias? LOL 

I'm not confused on your nonsense. That is a fact.

[TexasTiger 14,612]

14 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

I do. Those invalid and overseas military as a couple examples. 

We need to remain cautious and careful. COVID offered the perfect example and I agreed with it's rules at the time. But let's not deflect or diminish the affect. To some it was obvious, others not so much. Not tooting my horn, but I called it post election and within hours. To me, it was obvious rule changes to absentee ballots changed the outcome as it did for millions of Americans. We can argue those processes ad nauseum, but truthfully, everyone that is honest knows their affect.

I do think for transparency's sake there has to rules governing the process. For example, you can't produce ballots 100% for one party from mental health facility's or a reasonable facsimile. That will always produce questions of legitimacy. Whether we like to admit it or not, that happened 2020. We can do better and should for the sake of  transparency, integrity and most importantly democracy. 

Do you recognize most fraud that’s been proven is by Republicans?

[AUFAN78 4,174]

Just now, TexasTiger said:

Do you recognize most fraud that’s been proven is by Republicans?

I don't, but find that irrelevant to the conversation/question. We are talking integrity in elections right? That is a non-partisan topic.

[TexasTiger 14,612]

23 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

I don't, but find that irrelevant to the conversation/question. We are talking integrity in elections right? That is a non-partisan topic.

Except you seem to just assume fraud is inherent in anything other than in person voting..

[AUFAN78 4,174]

21 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Except you seem to just assume fraud is inherent in anything other than in person voting..

Do you not agree there are additional risks of fraud in absentee ballots?