The FBI raids Mar-A-Lago.

[Didba 5,256]

19 hours ago, GoAU said:

Not sure how you can say that with a straight face.  If you have any insight as to how national security was threatened under Trump  I’d love to hear it.  
 

However, influencing foreign policy for financial gain is exactly what the left was concerned with during the “Russian collusion” fiasco.  Instead, it turns out that Biden and Pelosi seem to be more compromised and suddenly everyone is turning a blind eye. 

When unqualified people are appointed to positions that give them access to highly classified documents just because their daddy is president inherently national security has a high chance to be affected. 

 

We aren’t talking financial gain here but it’s out there too. 

[Didba 5,256]

6 hours ago, GoAU said:

Let’s see what Russia actually DID under prior administrations:

Obama -“annexed” Crimea

Trump - nothing, and bombed Russian assets in Syria

Biden - Ukraine invasion   
 

as far as investigations and leveraging - Biden is the poster boy for this type of activity and bragged about it to the press on TV   

 

Hold up, are you legit blaming crimea and Ukraine on Biden and Obama? 

[Didba 5,256]

5 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

I can tell you what I am not tracking; the WaPo, NYT, CNN, MSNBC and any other entity that has lied about Russian collusion for six years.  I do not trust what comes out of the FBI as they tried to make sure Trump would never be President (text messages between two lovers) and 51 officials from the intelligence offices lied about Russian disinformation with regards to Hunter’s laptop.

Frankly, I’m a little surprised a lot of this board has taken what has been leaked as gospel.  It’s the same playbook used in the Russian collusion hoax.  Leak information to the press, it gets repeated by *reputable* media sources, so it must be true.

Can the left be any more disingenuous by not trusting LEOs on one hand and fully believe the FBI on this particular issue.  I guess TDS is a real thing even though he is no longer in office.  This is not a defense for Trump, I would love for him not to run in 2024, but this BS almost ensures that he will.  Thanks.

There are legal experts that tell their followers what the law says on both sides of the issue.  I’ll wait until the trail, if there is one.

The legal trail is already there. Accessible by anyone who knows how to look up public court documents. 

[Didba 5,256]

3 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

I’m enjoying watching the hypocrisy. 

Me too. The hypocrisy and irony on display by trumpers is pretty hilarious. 

[Didba 5,256]

3 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Totally nonresponsive. Asked you a genuine question about whether there were facts that would matter to you.

It’s because he doesn’t know anything about evidence, legal issues, how they are established in court, etc. These people have the dunning-kruger effect strongly affecting their thoughts. 

[Didba 5,256]

3 hours ago, Cardin Drake said:

It's truly amazing that you guys cling to russian collusion long after it has been incontrovertibly shown to have originated from Hillary's campaign.

The thing about the Russian collusion theory is that it never made sense. Homer, can you give me a straight forward explanation of Trump's plan?  I mean when he was sitting around with his boys or just in his own head, what was the plan?  Was it something like " Well, even though I'm down 6 points in the polls, I think if I just had a little help from Russia, I can win this thing. A hundred thousand dollars in facebook ads funded by Russia could put me over the top."  What is it that you think Trump himself was planning? 

You should really read George Papadopoulos (GP) book.  It's very enlightening as to the level of malfeasance at the FBI in initiating crossfire hurricane. Let's just focus on one point. Joseph Mifsud. The man at the heart of the FBI's case.  As you recall, the whole investigation started when an Australian diplomat named Alexander Downer told the FBI in May, of 2016 that GP told him that Russia had Hillary's emails.  They opened crossfire hurricane based on this hearsay evidence and subsequently spied on Trump's campaign.  They got around to questioning GP in January of 2017 about his conversations with Mifsud some  8 or 9 months earlier and subsequently charged him with lying to them. What was his lie?  Well, he went to work for the Trump campaign in the middle of March, 2016 as an unpaid volunteer.  He met Mifsud prior to that, but was told by Mifsud in April that "russia had hillary's emails".   GP told the FBI that Mifsud told him about the emails prior to him joining the Trump campaign. In his book, he convincingly argues that this was simply a mistake in his recalling the events that happened 9 months prior during a surprise visit from the FBI in which he cooperated fully.  He also says that he had no memory of telling Downer anything about Hillary's emails.  So he is approached by Mifsud in April who tells him about "russia having Hillary's email", then approached by Downer (who he did not know) a few weeks later who claims that GP told him about "russian having Hillary's emails" which he didn't actually do.  What happened to Mifsud, the originator of the story. Well the FBI interviewed him, but according to the FBI because of Papadopoulos' lie they weren't able to question him effectively and let him go.  It's a transparent lie that doesn't even make sense. Mifsud went missing shortly afterward and is presumed dead or in hiding.  So the FBI would have you believe that they are so incompetent that they opened an investigation into russian collusion but waited 8 months to question the key principal and once they had the source of the story, they didn't think to ask Mifsud where he got his information because of an irrelevant and inconsequential misstatement from Papadopoulos  The FBI is a lot of things, but they just aren't that stupid.

Longer recap here:

https://thefederalist.com/2018/08/20/papers-saying-papadopoulos-lied-fbi-fbi-shows-either-also-lying-incompetent/

 

 

No one is hanging on collusion. That’s you guys. We are talking about stuff happening presently. 

[Didba 5,256]

2 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Would be great to know the “why” material was stored away at Mar A Lago. Especially Documents labeled SCIF. Was it all in error? 
 

Just asking the question Tex.

The why doesn’t matter for these types of laws. 

[Didba 5,256]

2 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

I thought you’d be able to catch on to what I’m saying but I suppose I need to spell it out for you. 
 

Yes there are facts that matter to me, but what matters to me means nothing. What matters to you means nothing. 
 

There have been plenty of cases recently that had facts that could hold the person accountable. Yet, nothing. 
 

Like I said you are only excited because it’s Trump. But based on previous cases we’ve been showed power and influence mean more than facts. 

You still haven’t actually answered his question, lmao. 

[Didba 5,256]

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

If this were the case, why have past Presidents left office with these documents?  It’s been past practice.  I agreed they should just leave, but that isn’t what has or is happening.

Should we now make it illegal, starting with Trump?

They don’t leave with documents, the documents are stored by the national archive in a secure location near the president’s home. For instance when Obama move back to Chicago his documents were stored by the national archive in a secure location in Chicago for Obama to access as needed. 

[I_M4_AU 7,931]

56 minutes ago, Didba said:

They don’t leave with documents, the documents are stored by the national archive in a secure location near the president’s home. For instance when Obama move back to Chicago his documents were stored by the national archive in a secure location in Chicago for Obama to access as needed. 

Thanks for the information.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

1 hour ago, Didba said:

It’s because he doesn’t know anything about evidence, legal issues, how they are established in court, etc. These people have the dunning-kruger effect strongly affecting their thoughts. 

No, it’s because time and time again we have learned that some people are in fact above the law. 
 

You of all people should know this, just because you have evidence doesn’t really mean s***. So pardon me for realizing none of this means squat if nothing comes out of this like we’ve seen many times in many situations. 

[Cardin Drake 1,853]

2 hours ago, Didba said:

No one is hanging on collusion. That’s you guys. We are talking about stuff happening presently. 

Can you say with a straight face that Barack Obama or Joe Biden would be raided by the FBI with the exact same fact circumstance?  Nobody believes that, even most democrats, even though few would admit it. It's relevant because the FBI and DOJ have proven conclusively that they are partisan organizations during the russian collusion investigation.  The FBI comes out and asks how we dare to question their integrity, then they turn around the next day and illegally and unethically leak (or make up) the most damaging thing they can to the Washington Post and NY Times.  I don't know the facts on this, and neither do you, but I do know the FBI is full of people who lie about Donald Trump. And the Post and Times anonymous sources aren't worth a bucket of warm spit. We've seen this movie before, and that's why this "scandal" isn't moving the needle at all. 

[Didba 5,256]

3 minutes ago, Cardin Drake said:

Can you say with a straight face that Barack Obama or Joe Biden would be raided by the FBI with the exact same fact circumstance?  Nobody believes that, even most democrats, even though few would admit it. It's relevant because the FBI and DOJ have proven conclusively that they are partisan organizations during the russian collusion investigation.  The FBI comes out and asks how we dare to question their integrity, then they turn around the next day and illegally and unethically leak (or make up) the most damaging thing they can to the Washington Post and NY Times.  I don't know the facts on this, and neither do you, but I do know the FBI is full of people who lie about Donald Trump. And the Post and Times anonymous sources aren't worth a bucket of warm spit. We've seen this movie before, and that's why this "scandal" isn't moving the needle at all. 

Yes they would if they did the same things Trump has done. But they don’t. 
 

it’s not a scandal, it’s more than that. 

[SaltyTiger 7,847]

5 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Trump’s early defense was things packed by mistake. We’ll see how it unfolds. If there was such a thing as a temporary MAL SCIF, seems they’d have used that defense— I haven’t seen it. Have you are or you speculating?

What is MAL SCIF?

[SaltyTiger 7,847]

4 hours ago, Didba said:

The why doesn’t matter for these types of laws. 

I understand that counselor Didba. 

[TexasTiger 12,992]

20 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

What is MAL SCIF?

Mar a Lago SCIF you suggested.

[TexasTiger 12,992]

2 hours ago, Cardin Drake said:

Can you say with a straight face that Barack Obama or Joe Biden would be raided by the FBI with the exact same fact circumstance?  Nobody believes that, even most democrats, even though few would admit it. It's relevant because the FBI and DOJ have proven conclusively that they are partisan organizations during the russian collusion investigation.  The FBI comes out and asks how we dare to question their integrity, then they turn around the next day and illegally and unethically leak (or make up) the most damaging thing they can to the Washington Post and NY Times.  I don't know the facts on this, and neither do you, but I do know the FBI is full of people who lie about Donald Trump. And the Post and Times anonymous sources aren't worth a bucket of warm spit. We've seen this movie before, and that's why this "scandal" isn't moving the needle at all. 

Same facts? Of course. Likelihood of those facts? Zero.

[Didba 5,256]

1 hour ago, SaltyTiger said:

I understand that counselor Didba. 

[homersapien 11,423]

9 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

If this were the case, why have past Presidents left office with these documents?  It’s been past practice.  I agreed they should just leave, but that isn’t what has or is happening.

Should we now make it illegal, starting with Trump?

Trump himself made it a felony.

[homersapien 11,423]

8 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

Yes, there certainly was.  The American people made several serious errors in judgement.

(But not a majority.  )

[homersapien 11,423]

10 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

You can get excited all you want, but if you really think Trump will serve time then you are probably sadly mistaken. 

Of course not.  He's above the law.

[arein0 974]

5 hours ago, Cardin Drake said:

Can you say with a straight face that Barack Obama or Joe Biden would be raided by the FBI with the exact same fact circumstance?  Nobody believes that, even most democrats, even though few would admit it. It's relevant because the FBI and DOJ have proven conclusively that they are partisan organizations during the russian collusion investigation.  The FBI comes out and asks how we dare to question their integrity, then they turn around the next day and illegally and unethically leak (or make up) the most damaging thing they can to the Washington Post and NY Times.  I don't know the facts on this, and neither do you, but I do know the FBI is full of people who lie about Donald Trump. And the Post and Times anonymous sources aren't worth a bucket of warm spit. We've seen this movie before, and that's why this "scandal" isn't moving the needle at all. 

It seems like this is an emotional issue for you. I have a couple of genuine questions that I am curious about:

How are you going to react if he is proven guilty? 

How would you react if the roles were reversed and the FBI investigation was about Obama or Biden instead of Trump for the same crimes?

Edited August 15, 2022 by arein0
Spelling

[Cardin Drake 1,853]

17 minutes ago, arein0 said:

It seems like this is an emotional issue for you. I have a couple of genuine questions that I am curious about:

How are you going to react if he is proven guilty? 

How would you react if the roles were reversed and the FBI investigation was about Obama or Biden instead of Trump for the same crimes?

I'm utterly disgusted by the malfeasance of the russian collusion investigation. And now, instead of an apology and cleansing of the FBI, they just move on to the next accusation.  I'm a realist about Trump though. I'm shocked that once they were able to investigate him with 18 full time prosecutors for 2 years, they couldn't find a crime. He must be the cleanest billionaire on the planet. I'm sure they were shocked too. They knew russian collusion was a sham going in, but they figured they could find something. The FBI and DOJ are corrupt, but not stupid. I won't be surprised if they have something on him.  I won't be surprised if it's all bs too.  We will see. I take it as a good sign that they are leaking with anonymous sources.  Doesn't strike me as confident, and it's straight out of their unethical playbook.   If they get Trump though, so be it.  I'm fine with Desantis as our candidate. Trump is deeply flawed as a candidate and alienates too many soccer moms.  I like his policies, and I like his charisma, but geez, that man needs some discipline.  I'll happily vote for him if he is our candidate, but I'd prefer someone who won't get in a twitter war with every 2nd rate actress in hollywood. And I don't like the fact that he is not a fiscal conservative.

I notice nobody has responded to my challenge to lay out Trump's russian collusion plan. I see a similar problem here. I don't find it hard to believe that Trump is guilty of a careless process crime, but it's laughable to think he has stolen nuclear secrets to make a quick buck as so many have insinuated.  I also don't find it hard to believe that the FBI has simply retrieved documents that paint them in a bad light over spygate. At this point, we know less than nothing.

[AU9377 5,019]

16 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

I can tell you what I am not tracking; the WaPo, NYT, CNN, MSNBC and any other entity that has lied about Russian collusion for six years.  I do not trust what comes out of the FBI as they tried to make sure Trump would never be President (text messages between two lovers) and 51 officials from the intelligence offices lied about Russian disinformation with regards to Hunter’s laptop.

Frankly, I’m a little surprised a lot of this board has taken what has been leaked as gospel.  It’s the same playbook used in the Russian collusion hoax.  Leak information to the press, it gets repeated by *reputable* media sources, so it must be true.

Can the left be any more disingenuous by not trusting LEOs on one hand and fully believe the FBI on this particular issue.  I guess TDS is a real thing even though he is no longer in office.  This is not a defense for Trump, I would love for him not to run in 2024, but this BS almost ensures that he will.  Thanks.

There are legal experts that tell their followers what the law says on both sides of the issue.  I’ll wait until the trail, if there is one.

You don't have to trust every report to understand testimony given under oath by members of the Trump campaign and Trump administration. When every member of the NSA testifies that Trump replaced the ambassador to Ukraine because the former ambassador would not "play ball" and pressure a foreign government to investigate his political rival or risk further delaying congressionally approved military aid, I accept that as fact.    When his first Secretary of State, every Secretary of Defense and every high ranking General that worked with him warns of the danger the man is to the country, I don't need ABC to show additional evidence before forming a well grounded opinion of him as an unhinged narcissistic moron.

Had there been nothing to acquire at Mar-a-lago, no warrant would have been signed.

[creed 1,643]

12 hours ago, Didba said:

They don’t leave with documents, the documents are stored by the national archive in a secure location near the president’s home. For instance when Obama move back to Chicago his documents were stored by the national archive in a secure location in Chicago for Obama to access as needed. 

Okay,

Here's an example where I would draw the line. If the documents stored in this archive were created while on the job as President, they are not his to keep. The documents are ours (the people) and should have remained in an archive in DC for future use by elected employees of that we elect.