The FBI raids Mar-A-Lago.

[homersapien 11,410]

 

Of course not.  If the reason for the raid was to get the NARA documents they could have arranged with Trump to do so.  If the raid was a fishing expedition for who knows what, I guess this is the way to do it, but the backlash could be costly.

Trump ignored previous subpoenas asking for the records prior to the search warrant.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-subpoenaed-classified-records-mar-a-lago-raid-1395849/

Trump Was Subpoenaed for Records Before Mar-a-Lago Raid: Report

 

 

 

 

[Didba 5,256]

 

Trump was under the impression the discussion was still on going.  A miscommunication or a strong handed response used to intimidate? The legal correspondence shows that there was not a discussion still ongoing. His Atts knew that so he did as well.

 

So, you are saying they didn’t grab anything other than what was on the warrant? No, that's not what I am saying.

They are allowed to take was they believe may be a part of a crime. Yes, this is correct. 

Why did they go into Melania’s closet to look? Under the FRCP, they are allowed to search anywhere the items could be physically stored. Pretty standard search warrant stuff.  For example, if you are looking for a large rifle the police cannot search a small jewelry box or any other small container but can look anywhere that could store such a large item like a closet.

 

Edited August 13, 2022 by Didba

[homersapien 11,410]

 

Trump was under the impression the discussion was still on going.  A miscommunication or a strong handed response used to intimidate?

So, you are saying they didn’t grab anything other than what was on the warrant?  They are allowed to take was they believe may be a part of a crime.  Why did they go into Melania’s closet to look?

Trump simply does not believe the law applies to him.

 

Inside Trump’s chamber of secrets

By Matt Bai

 

National security being what it is, we may never know the exact contents of the documents that FBI agents carried out of Mar-a-Lago this week. But we can already see what Donald Trump’s defense will be.

These documents can’t be classified, Trump and his allies are saying, because he unilaterally declassified them at some point, even if the feds still say they’re classified. It’s like he carries around a magic declassification wand. He’s Harry Potter in the House of Treason.

Let’s get a few things straight. If you’re president, as I understand it, you do have the right to declassify whatever documents you want. But there’s a process for doing so. You’re supposed to submit those documents to the appropriate agencies for review, and then they must be formally categorized as declassified.

This should go without saying, but since we’re not exactly killing it on basic civics these days, let me add that former presidents can’t declassify anything. That would be like Bill Clinton trying to retroactively issue a pardon.

By the way, if you were wondering just how desperate the once intellectually vibrant conservative movement has become, consider one Charles Stimson of the Heritage Foundation, who told NBC News that “there’s a rich debate about whether or not a document is declassified if a president has decided but not communicated it outside of his own head.”

Really. And where’s this rich debate on presidential telepathy taking place, exactly? The “Stranger Things” fan site?

But let’s leave aside this whole arcane question of what’s properly classified and what isn’t. We’ll find out more in the days ahead about why the FBI suspects Trump may have broken several national security laws, including the Espionage Act.

The larger point here is that the whole fiasco underscores the most disturbing thing about Trump’s term in the White House. Trump functioned as a president, more or less, but the underlying concept of the presidency somehow always eluded him.

Everyone who preceded Trump accepted the idea that the office is held in a sacred and temporary trust. The White House and everything that comes with it — the salutes and the planes, the couches and carpets, the weird things people gift you in foreign countries — belong to the country and its history, not to you. You’re just hired to manage the place for a while.

Even Richard M. Nixon, inventor of the so-called imperial presidency, was made to understand this in the end. He left Washington for the last time on something called Air Force One and landed in California on a flight re-designated as SAM 27000 (SAM standing for “special air mission”).

Somewhere in the skies, he lost the office and all the swag that accompanied it, including the plane’s special status.

Any American kid who’s seen “Hamilton” understands this concept of transient leadership, but Trump simply did not. Having come into office on the power of a popular uprising, Trump imagined he had been sent to Washington not to restore the institutions of government, but to replace them.

In Trump’s worldview, he acquired the office and the generals and the state secrets, just as he’d once acquired the Eastern Air Lines’ shuttle, and this whole idea that he was privileged to serve was a bunch of deep-state nonsense. I don’t think it’s hyperbole to say that he saw himself as an American Putin — elected, perhaps, but governing at the will of some stronger current than the public’s fleeting favor.

Other presidents, Joe Biden among them, have spoken often about the immense honor of holding the office, mindful of the predecessors they admired and the unfinished business they would leave their successors. You may correct me here, but can anyone remember any instance of Trump musing on his obligations to history?

No, Trump seemed oddly uninterested in all of that, dismissing even Abraham Lincoln’s impact as “questionable.” If Trump ever considered a future with a president other than himself, he gave no indication.

So, of course, Trump refused to leave the job until forced, and of course he held on to material that clearly belonged in public hands. When the presidency is an acquisition rather than an opportunity to serve, then everything that comes with it is rightfully yours to do with as you please.

Until this week, I wasn’t sure Trump would really run again and risk losing a primary, much less a general election. But now I presume he will, if only because he’ll want to regain control of the government forces that are fast arraying against him. When the feds broke into Trump’s chamber of secrets, they unleashed something dark and rapacious within.

It’s Trump or the democracy now. I have a hard time imagining how we’d end up with both.

 

[GoAU 1,600]

 

Cool. We’ve both said it’s not good when either side does it while you ignore that trump’s nepotism is way worse. 

Actually, I curious as to eat you’re talking about.  I am aware that he had his children around him, but I’ve not heard anything about them profiting from his presidency.   I’d like to see what you’re talking about though.  

[Didba 5,256]

 

Actually, I curious as to eat you’re talking about.  I am aware that he had his children around him, but I’ve not heard anything about them profiting from his presidency.   I’d like to see what you’re talking about though.  

He gave them political positions the executive branch. That’s the definition of nepotism. 

[GoAU 1,600]

 

Geeeeeeeeeez man crazy how brainwashed some of trump's supporters are.

I think we can easily agree that both sides have their fair share of extremists   

 

here is another dishonest thing trump is doing that will make you laugh.

thedailybeast.com

 

Pro – Trump Clothing Brand Lions Not Sheep Busted by FTC Over Fake ‘Made in USA’ Tags

AJ McDougall

1-2 minutes

---

An apparel company known for its inflammatory, pro–Trump slant was ordered by the Federal Trade Commission to stop using phony “Made in USA” tags on its products and “come clean about foreign production,” according to an agency news release. Lions Not Sheep, a company that sprang up during the pandemic, became notorious for printing far-right slogans like “Let’s Go Brandon” and “Give Violence a Chance” on clothing. Both it and company owner Sean Whalen were also ordered to pay $211,335 in fines over the fake labels. The penalty comes after the FTC found that Lions Not Sheep employees had removed “Made in China” tags and replaced them with the “bogus” ones. According to the agency’s original complaint, Whalen uploaded a video to social media claiming he could “conceal the fact that his shirts are made in China by ripping out the origin tags and replacing them with tags stating that the merchandise was made in the United States.”

some of yall hate the beast but they come up with stuff i love. the man needs to go to jail but i am not sure we would make things better or worse.personally i say lock him up. if it was one of us we would be goners.

 

 

 

 

I tend to side with knowing more about what government is doing than less.  For example, I wasn't especially bothered by the Supreme Court leak of the working opinion overturning Roe.  Every situation is unique in itself.  Historically, the press has been a vital part of how the public holds elected officials accountable.

I assume you’re not saying that Trump is running this company?  That being said, regardless of the message being passed on the clothes, commuting an intentional act like this deserves the consequences.   Throw the book at the owner of the company and / or those responsible  

 

 

Just out here doxing FBI agents and attacking their families bc their hero committed various crimes

Regardless of whether or not I agree with what the agents were doing was right, fixing them is clearly wrong   Just like putting “bounties” out for the location of SCOTUS around the RvW reversal      

 

He gave them political positions the executive branch. That’s the definition of nepotism. 

I agree with you regarding the definition of nepotism.   What I still don’t understand is whether you are implying there was a profit motive there, or if Trump just did it out of trust for his kids.  
 

Hunter and Pelosi jr are different because it wasn’t an overt hire - it was influence peddling in the shadows with a clear profit motive. 

[Didba 5,256]

 

I think we can easily agree that both sides have their fair share of extremists   

 

I assume you’re not saying that Trump is running this company?  That being said, regardless of the message being passed on the clothes, commuting an intentional act like this deserves the consequences.   Throw the book at the owner of the company and / or those responsible  

Regardless of whether or not I agree with what the agents were doing was right, fixing them is clearly wrong   Just like putting “bounties” out for the location of SCOTUS around the RvW reversal      

I agree with you regarding the definition of nepotism.   What I still don’t understand is whether you are implying there was a profit motive there, or if Trump just did it out of trust for his kids.  
 

Hunter and Pelosi jr are different because it wasn’t an overt hire - it was influence peddling in the shadows with a clear profit motive. 

I was not implying profit motive for that specifically but I know I could find comparable stuff for his kids pretty quick. I might later

[Leftfield 2,625]

The problem with nepotism in government isn't that it will lead to immediate wealth, it's that by definition it demands that the people put in those positions will be loyal to the one who put them there. Their allegiance is far more likely to be to their benefactor, and not to the government. Don't get me wrong, I understand it happens all over, but it hits another level when you're talking about family, and especially a parent appointing their children (children that have absolutely no qualifications, to boot). That is very dangerous when you are talking about positions that can curry favor with foreign entities.

Edited August 14, 2022 by Leftfield

[GoAU 1,600]

 

The problem with nepotism in government isn't that it will lead to immediate wealth, it's that by definition it demands that the people put in those positions will be loyal to the one who put them there. Their allegiance is far more likely to be to their benefactor, and not to the government. Don't get me wrong, I understand it happens all iver, but it hits another level when you're talking about family, and especially a parent appointing their children (children that have absolutely no qualifications, to boot). That is very dangerous when you are talking about positions that can curry favor with foreign entities.

Completely agree with you.  I don’t personally agree with Trump doing it, but what he did is significantly different from comparing it to Hunter and Paul jr.  

[Leftfield 2,625]

 

Completely agree with you.  I don’t personally agree with Trump doing it, but what he did is significantly different from comparing it to Hunter and Paul jr.  

Correct. It's worse. I don't approve of  how Hunter and Paul Jr. benefitted by any means, but there is far less chance of it affecting national security.

Edited August 14, 2022 by Leftfield

[TexasTiger 12,974]

 

Of course not.  If the reason for the raid was to get the NARA documents they could have arranged with Trump to do so.  If the raid was a fishing expedition for who knows what, I guess this is the way to do it, but the backlash could be costly.

Utterly clueless. They’ve tried to get them. He & his hopefully soon to be disbarred lawyer lied and said all were returned. What are you not tracking? 

[GoAU 1,600]

 

Correct. It's worse. I don't approve of  how Hunter and Paul Jr. benefitted by any means, but there is far less chance of it affecting national security.

Not sure how you can say that with a straight face.  If you have any insight as to how national security was threatened under Trump  I’d love to hear it.  
 

However, influencing foreign policy for financial gain is exactly what the left was concerned with during the “Russian collusion” fiasco.  Instead, it turns out that Biden and Pelosi seem to be more compromised and suddenly everyone is turning a blind eye. 

[GoAU 1,600]

On a completely non-partisan basis, am I the only one that finds it strange there is no oversight at all as people move out of the White House?  I mean seriously, if there are items involving national security, historical significance, etc and no one is monitoring what is being packed up?   There have been allegations around prior presidents taking things as well - not classified documents, that I am aware of - but still seems off to me that this can happen.  
 

classified documents that I was around had much tighter controls, and probably had much less sensitivity.   

[Leftfield 2,625]

 

Not sure how you can say that with a straight face.  If you have any insight as to how national security was threatened under Trump  I’d love to hear it.

Never said I had any evidence. My point was it's worse to have your family involved because they will be much more loyal to who put them there. Other appointees certainly would have loyalty, but would be more likely to consider the best interests of the country.

 

However, influencing foreign policy for financial gain is exactly what the left was concerned with during the “Russian collusion” fiasco.  Instead, it turns out that Biden and Pelosi seem to be more compromised and suddenly everyone is turning a blind eye. 

No, the worry with Russian collusion was that it would influence our policy for financial gain. 

In the case of Pelosi, the financial gain is not foreign policy, but domestic green policy. In the case of Biden, there still is no evidence Joe benefitted, but if there is evidence, let it come out and he can deal with it.

[AU9377 5,013]

 

I think we can easily agree that both sides have their fair share of extremists   

 

I assume you’re not saying that Trump is running this company?  That being said, regardless of the message being passed on the clothes, commuting an intentional act like this deserves the consequences.   Throw the book at the owner of the company and / or those responsible  

Regardless of whether or not I agree with what the agents were doing was right, fixing them is clearly wrong   Just like putting “bounties” out for the location of SCOTUS around the RvW reversal      

I agree with you regarding the definition of nepotism.   What I still don’t understand is whether you are implying there was a profit motive there, or if Trump just did it out of trust for his kids.  
 

Hunter and Pelosi jr are different because it wasn’t an overt hire - it was influence peddling in the shadows with a clear profit motive. 

People will always profit from their proximity to power. Jimmy Carter's brother, Billy, even had his own beer brand during the time his brother was President. It is only when actual influence is part of the thing being bargained that it becomes illegal. It may smell, but the office holder or employee of the govt must be involved in the quid pro quo for an ethical problem to rise or criminal act to be shown.

Not long ago peop!e on the far right were losing their minds screaming about large donations being made to the Clinton Foundation. They acted shocked that a 2 term former President would have connections around the globe. After numerous investigations, no wrongdoing whatsoever was discovered. In fact, what failed to make headlines was the finding that the Clintons never received any funds personally and never took a salary. 

Now the same people pretend that Jared Kushner possesses businesses savvy worth $2 billion from the Saudis. The hypocrisy knows no bounds.

[AU9377 5,013]

 

Not sure how you can say that with a straight face.  If you have any insight as to how national security was threatened under Trump  I’d love to hear it.  
 

However, influencing foreign policy for financial gain is exactly what the left was concerned with during the “Russian collusion” fiasco.  Instead, it turns out that Biden and Pelosi seem to be more compromised and suddenly everyone is turning a blind eye. 

Can you point to any time during the Trump presidency that he actually pushed Putin or called him out for being the untrustworthy dictator that he is?  He literally kissed the man's ass from before he was elected thru his entire term.  Congress passed military aid packages to Ukraine & instead of getting that aid to them immediately, he chose to use it as currency to bribe them to help himself by announcing an investigation of his political rival. 

[aubiefifty 16,853]

 

The problem with nepotism in government isn't that it will lead to immediate wealth, it's that by definition it demands that the people put in those positions will be loyal to the one who put them there. Their allegiance is far more likely to be to their benefactor, and not to the government. Don't get me wrong, I understand it happens all iver, but it hits another level when you're talking about family, and especially a parent appointing their children (children that have absolutely no qualifications, to boot). That is very dangerous when you are talking about positions that can curry favor with foreign entities.

i still do not understand how trump got away with it but two brothers were in the same branch at AOD and they were forced to move because it is against the law. maybe it does not cover the white house because jfk had his brother right beside him. the brothers at AOD were given no choice and told they had to seperate or someone or both of them could lose their job. true story. i know the brothers.

[GoAU 1,600]

 

Can you point to any time during the Trump presidency that he actually pushed Putin or called him out for being the untrustworthy dictator that he is?  He literally kissed the man's ass from before he was elected thru his entire term.  Congress passed military aid packages to Ukraine & instead of getting that aid to them immediately, he chose to use it as currency to bribe them to help himself by announcing an investigation of his political rival. 

Let’s see what Russia actually DID under prior administrations:

Obama -“annexed” Crimea

Trump - nothing, and bombed Russian assets in Syria

Biden - Ukraine invasion   
 

as far as investigations and leveraging - Biden is the poster boy for this type of activity and bragged about it to the press on TV   

 

[I_M4_AU 7,912]

 

Utterly clueless. They’ve tried to get them. He & his hopefully soon to be disbarred lawyer lied and said all were returned. What are you not tracking? 

I can tell you what I am not tracking; the WaPo, NYT, CNN, MSNBC and any other entity that has lied about Russian collusion for six years.  I do not trust what comes out of the FBI as they tried to make sure Trump would never be President (text messages between two lovers) and 51 officials from the intelligence offices lied about Russian disinformation with regards to Hunter’s laptop.

Frankly, I’m a little surprised a lot of this board has taken what has been leaked as gospel.  It’s the same playbook used in the Russian collusion hoax.  Leak information to the press, it gets repeated by *reputable* media sources, so it must be true.

Can the left be any more disingenuous by not trusting LEOs on one hand and fully believe the FBI on this particular issue.  I guess TDS is a real thing even though he is no longer in office.  This is not a defense for Trump, I would love for him not to run in 2024, but this BS almost ensures that he will.  Thanks.

There are legal experts that tell their followers what the law says on both sides of the issue.  I’ll wait until the trail, if there is one.

[TexasTiger 12,974]

 

I can tell you what I am not tracking; the WaPo, NYT, CNN, MSNBC and any other entity that has lied about Russian collusion for six years.  I do not trust what comes out of the FBI as they tried to make sure Trump would never be President (text messages between two lovers) and 51 officials from the intelligence offices lied about Russian disinformation with regards to Hunter’s laptop.

Frankly, I’m a little surprised a lot of this board has taken what has been leaked as gospel.  It’s the same playbook used in the Russian collusion hoax.  Leak information to the press, it gets repeated by *reputable* media sources, so it must be true.

Can the left be any more disingenuous by not trusting LEOs on one hand and fully believe the FBI on this particular issue.  I guess TDS is a real thing even though he is no longer in office.  This is not a defense for Trump, I would love for him not to run in 2024, but this BS almost ensures that he will.  Thanks.

There are legal experts that tell their followers what the law says on both sides of the issue.  I’ll wait until the trail, if there is one.

Text messages between two lovers outweighs everything else? Face it. There is no evidence you won’t dismiss. There is no principle you won’t discard. You’ve been utterly radicalized.

[I_M4_AU 7,912]

 

Text messages between two lovers outweighs everything else? Face it. There is no evidence you won’t dismiss. There is no principle you won’t discard. You’ve been utterly radicalized.

I could say the same for you.

[TexasTiger 12,974]

 

I could say the same for you.

You can say anything. Speaking requires little thought.

[I_M4_AU 7,912]

 

You can say anything. Speaking requires little thought.

yes, I see your point.

 

Text messages between two lovers outweighs everything else? Face it. There is no evidence you won’t dismiss. There is no principle you won’t discard. You’ve been utterly radicalized.

Nice speech.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

 

I can tell you what I am not tracking; the WaPo, NYT, CNN, MSNBC and any other entity that has lied about Russian collusion for six years.  I do not trust what comes out of the FBI as they tried to make sure Trump would never be President (text messages between two lovers) and 51 officials from the intelligence offices lied about Russian disinformation with regards to Hunter’s laptop.

Frankly, I’m a little surprised a lot of this board has taken what has been leaked as gospel.  It’s the same playbook used in the Russian collusion hoax.  Leak information to the press, it gets repeated by *reputable* media sources, so it must be true.

Can the left be any more disingenuous by not trusting LEOs on one hand and fully believe the FBI on this particular issue.  I guess TDS is a real thing even though he is no longer in office.  This is not a defense for Trump, I would love for him not to run in 2024, but this BS almost ensures that he will.  Thanks.

There are legal experts that tell their followers what the law says on both sides of the issue.  I’ll wait until the trail, if there is one.

I’m enjoying watching the hypocrisy. lol 

My guess is that this will eventually fizzle out like the emails and laptop. 

[TexasTiger 12,974]

 

I’m enjoying watching the hypocrisy. lol 

My guess is that this will eventually fizzle out like the emails and laptop. 

What facts need to be established in this case to be meaningful for you?