The FBI raids Mar-A-Lago.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

 

What facts need to be established in this case to be meaningful for you?

We have learned that facts don’t mean $hit when it comes to holding the guilty party accountable. Hunter and Hillary say hello as well as many other politicians with influence. 
 

You can get excited all you want, but if you really think Trump will serve time then you are probably sadly mistaken. 

[TexasTiger 12,975]

 

We have learned that facts don’t mean $hit when it comes to holding the guilty party accountable. Hunter and Hillary say hello as well as many other politicians with influence. 
 

You can get excited all you want, but if you really think Trump will serve time then you are probably sadly mistaken. 

Totally nonresponsive. Asked you a genuine question about whether there were facts that would matter to you.

[Cardin Drake 1,851]

 

https://www.lawfareblog.com/collusion-reading-diary-what-did-senate-intelligence-committee-find

A Collusion Reading Diary: What Did the Senate Intelligence Committee Find?

The fifth and final volume of the Select Intelligence Committee’s bipartisan report on Russian interference in the 2016 election is an incredibly long and detailed document. At a whopping 966 pages, volume 5 alone is more than twice the length of the Mueller report, and it covers a great deal more ground.

It is important for another reason: Along with the shorter volumes 1-4, the Senate’s report is the only credible account of the events of 2016 to which Republican elected officials have signed their names. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell in a press release praised the report on the investigation he set in motion way back in December 2016, saying, “I commend my colleagues on both sides for keeping their work out of the partisan spotlight and focused on the facts.” McConnell, in the same press release, echoes the statements of Acting Committee Chairman Marco Rubio, stating that “[t]heir report reaffirms Special Counsel Mueller’s finding that President Trump did not collude with Russia.”

It is a bit of a mug’s game at this point to fight over whether what either Mueller or the Intelligence Committee found constitutes collusion and, if so, in what sense. The question turns almost entirely on what one means by the term “collusion”—a word without any precise meaning in the context of campaign engagement with foreign actors interfering with an election.

So rather than engaging over whether the Intelligence Committee found collusion, we decided to read the document with a focus on identifying precisely what the committee found about the engagement over a long period of time between Trump and his campaign and Russian government or intelligence actors and their cut-outs.

Whether one describes this activity as collusion or not, there’s a lot of it: The report describes hundreds of actions by Trump, his campaign, and his associates in the run-up to the 2016 election that involve some degree of participation by Trump or his associates in Russian activity. In this post—which we are generating serially as we read through the document—we attempt to summarize, precisely and comprehensively, what the eight Republicans on the committee, along with their seven Democratic colleagues, report that the president, members of his campaign and his associates actually did.

One overarching note: There is a fair amount of overlap between this document and the Mueller report. But the Senate report covers a fair bit more ground for a few reasons. For one thing, it was not limited to information it could prove beyond a reasonable doubt in court, as Mueller was. Just as important, the committee included counterintelligence questions in its investigative remit—whereas Mueller limited himself to a review of criminal activity. So the document reads less like a prosecution memo and more like an investigative report addressing risk assessment questions. This volume is an attempt to describe comprehensively the counterintelligence threats and vulnerabilities associated with Russia’s interference in the 2016 election. So it’s inherently a little more free-wheeling and speculative.

As we read, we summarized each section of the report in the order in which it appears. As of Sept. 3, the summary is now complete.

A. Paul Manafort

B. Hack and Leak

C. The Agalarovs and the June 9, 2016 Trump Tower Meeting

D. Trump Tower Moscow

E. George Papadopoulos

F. Carter Page

G. Trump's Foreign Policy Speech at the Mayflower Hotel

H. Maria Butina and Alexander Torshin

I. Allegations, and Potential Misinformation, About Compromising Information

J. Influence for Hire

K. Transition

L. Other Incidents and Persons of Interest

Conclusion

 

It's truly amazing that you guys cling to russian collusion long after it has been incontrovertibly shown to have originated from Hillary's campaign.

The thing about the Russian collusion theory is that it never made sense. Homer, can you give me a straight forward explanation of Trump's plan?  I mean when he was sitting around with his boys or just in his own head, what was the plan?  Was it something like " Well, even though I'm down 6 points in the polls, I think if I just had a little help from Russia, I can win this thing. A hundred thousand dollars in facebook ads funded by Russia could put me over the top."  What is it that you think Trump himself was planning? 

You should really read George Papadopoulos (GP) book.  It's very enlightening as to the level of malfeasance at the FBI in initiating crossfire hurricane. Let's just focus on one point. Joseph Mifsud. The man at the heart of the FBI's case.  As you recall, the whole investigation started when an Australian diplomat named Alexander Downer told the FBI in May, of 2016 that GP told him that Russia had Hillary's emails.  They opened crossfire hurricane based on this hearsay evidence and subsequently spied on Trump's campaign.  They got around to questioning GP in January of 2017 about his conversations with Mifsud some  8 or 9 months earlier and subsequently charged him with lying to them. What was his lie?  Well, he went to work for the Trump campaign in the middle of March, 2016 as an unpaid volunteer.  He met Mifsud prior to that, but was told by Mifsud in April that "russia had hillary's emails".   GP told the FBI that Mifsud told him about the emails prior to him joining the Trump campaign. In his book, he convincingly argues that this was simply a mistake in his recalling the events that happened 9 months prior during a surprise visit from the FBI in which he cooperated fully.  He also says that he had no memory of telling Downer anything about Hillary's emails.  So he is approached by Mifsud in April who tells him about "russia having Hillary's email", then approached by Downer (who he did not know) a few weeks later who claims that GP told him about "russian having Hillary's emails" which he didn't actually do.  What happened to Mifsud, the originator of the story. Well the FBI interviewed him, but according to the FBI because of Papadopoulos' lie they weren't able to question him effectively and let him go.  It's a transparent lie that doesn't even make sense. Mifsud went missing shortly afterward and is presumed dead or in hiding.  So the FBI would have you believe that they are so incompetent that they opened an investigation into russian collusion but waited 8 months to question the key principal and once they had the source of the story, they didn't think to ask Mifsud where he got his information because of an irrelevant and inconsequential misstatement from Papadopoulos  The FBI is a lot of things, but they just aren't that stupid.

Longer recap here:

https://thefederalist.com/2018/08/20/papers-saying-papadopoulos-lied-fbi-fbi-shows-either-also-lying-incompetent/

 

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Cardin Drake

[creed 1,642]

17 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

I can tell you what I am not tracking; the WaPo, NYT, CNN, MSNBC and any other entity that has lied about Russian collusion for six years.  I do not trust what comes out of the FBI as they tried to make sure Trump would never be President (text messages between two lovers) and 51 officials from the intelligence offices lied about Russian disinformation with regards to Hunter’s laptop.

Frankly, I’m a little surprised a lot of this board has taken what has been leaked as gospel.  It’s the same playbook used in the Russian collusion hoax.  Leak information to the press, it gets repeated by *reputable* media sources, so it must be true.

Can the left be any more disingenuous by not trusting LEOs on one hand and fully believe the FBI on this particular issue.  I guess TDS is a real thing even though he is no longer in office.  This is not a defense for Trump, I would love for him not to run in 2024, but this BS almost ensures that he will.  Thanks.

There are legal experts that tell their followers what the law says on both sides of the issue.  I’ll wait until the trail, if there is one.

I don't know the whole truth, but here is my opinion so take it for what it's worth. There is absolutely zero reason for Trump to have any Presidential work related documentation is his possession. I don't care if it's meeting minutes with Ozzy Osbourne to discuss national drug policies. The point is, any work related documention is the property of People of the United States of America who paid for such work...period. 

The president (including past) , congress, judges, appointees, etc. etc. should walk out of office, with only personal items and leave everthing else behind that was paid for by their constituency.

Edited August 15, 2022 by creed

[SaltyTiger 7,838]

 

What facts need to be established in this case to be meaningful for you?

Would be great to know the “why” material was stored away at Mar A Lago. Especially Documents labeled SCIF. Was it all in error? 
 

Just asking the question Tex.

[Leftfield 2,626]

 

Would be great to know the “why” material was stored away at Mar A Lago. Especially Documents labeled SCIF. Was it all in error? 
 

Just asking the question Tex.

For lower-level classification, maybe something could have been done in error. From what I've read, even that would be straining credulity. However, there is absolutely no way something labeled "Top Secret/SCI" would have been removed by mistake.

[SaltyTiger 7,838]

 

For lower-level classification, maybe something could have been done in error. From what I've read, even that would be straining credulity. However, there is absolutely no way something labeled "Top Secret/SCI" would have been removed by mistake.

Understand all that and the reason question asked as it was. With SCI documents also comes “how”. The things should never leave a SCIF should they?

[wdefromtx 3,159]

 

Totally nonresponsive. Asked you a genuine question about whether there were facts that would matter to you.

I thought you’d be able to catch on to what I’m saying but I suppose I need to spell it out for you. 
 

Yes there are facts that matter to me, but what matters to me means nothing. What matters to you means nothing. 
 

There have been plenty of cases recently that had facts that could hold the person accountable. Yet, nothing. 
 

Like I said you are only excited because it’s Trump. But based on previous cases we’ve been showed power and influence mean more than facts. 

[I_M4_AU 7,914]

 

I don't know the whole truth, but here is my opinion so take it for what it's worth. There is absolutely zero reason for Trump to have any Presidential work related documentation is his possession. I don't care if it's meeting minutes with Ozzy Obourne to discuss national drug policies. The point is, any work related documention is the property of People of the United States of America who paid for such work...period. 

The president (including past) , congress, judges, appointees, etc. etc. should walk out of office, with only personal items and leave everthing else behind that was paid for by their contituency.

If this were the case, why have past Presidents left office with these documents?  It’s been past practice.  I agreed they should just leave, but that isn’t what has or is happening.

Should we now make it illegal, starting with Trump?

[TexasTiger 12,975]

 

If this were the case, why have past Presidents left office with these documents?  It’s been past practice.  I agreed they should just leave, but that isn’t what has or is happening.

Should we now make it illegal, starting with Trump?

Cite a credible source where Presidents took documents with this level of classification, refused to return them, finally claimed they complied only to be lying? 

 

[TexasTiger 12,975]

 

Would be great to know the “why” material was stored away at Mar A Lago. Especially Documents labeled SCIF. Was it all in error? 
 

Just asking the question Tex.

Seems like an impossible error to make for SCIF documents, based on my understanding of how they are managed. After  being asked to return them and then subpoenaed how would an error, if that’s what it was, continue, even having him & his lawyer claim they had fully complied?

[TexasTiger 12,975]

 

If this were the case, why have past Presidents left office with these documents?  It’s been past practice.  I agreed they should just leave, but that isn’t what has or is happening.

Should we now make it illegal, starting with Trump?

Trump made taking classified documents a felony in 2018.

[I_M4_AU 7,914]

 

Cite a credible source where Presidents took documents with this level of classification, refused to return them, finally claimed they complied only to be lying? 

 

You are trying to qualify my statement.  I said nothing about the level of classification of documents taken by past Presidents, but documents have been taken.

ETA: the subject of the discussion was work related documents, not Classified Documents.

Edited August 14, 2022 by I_M4_AU

[TexasTiger 12,975]

 

You are trying to qualify my statement.  I said nothing about the level of classification of documents taken by past Presidents, but documents have been taken.

ETA: the subject of the discussion was work related documents, not Classified Documents.

So you’re posing a pure hypothetical totally unrelated to the thread?

[I_M4_AU 7,914]

 

So you’re posing a pure hypothetical totally unrelated to the thread?

I was answering Creed’s comment.

[SaltyTiger 7,838]

 

Seems like an impossible error to make for SCIF documents, based on my understanding of how they are managed. After  being asked to return them and then subpoenaed how would an error, if that’s what it was, continue, even having him & his lawyer claim they had fully complied?

Are SCI documents not to remain in a SCIF at all times? For the items to be in Mar A Lago it seems there has been a huge “error” somewhere. 
 

 

[TexasTiger 12,975]

 

Are SCI documents not to remain in a SCIF at all times? For the items to be in Mar A Lago it seems there has been a huge “error” somewhere. 
 

 

That’s my understanding. Whatever exceptions may exist, it doesn’t seem like Melania would accidentally pack them.

[TexasTiger 12,975]

 

I was answering Creed’s comment.

You were responding to mine.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

23 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Are SCI documents not to remain in a SCIF at all times? For the items to be in Mar A Lago it seems there has been a huge “error” somewhere. 
 

 

Yes, there certainly was.  The American people made several serious errors in judgement.

[I_M4_AU 7,914]

24 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

You were responding to mine.

Yes, your comment to my comment on Creed’s post.  We could be here all day.  What’s your point?

[SaltyTiger 7,838]

2 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Yes, there certainly was.  The American people made several serious errors in judgement.

Yet the man still has unbelievable support. Take a Saturday afternoon boat cruise. Trump flags galore and greeting of the day across the water is **** Joe Biden.

[TexasTiger 12,975]

10 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Yes, your comment to my comment on Creed’s post.  We could be here all day.  What’s your point?

Don’t have to be here all do if you could handle simple questions. 😉

[TexasTiger 12,975]

7 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Yet the man still has unbelievable support. Take a Saturday afternoon boat cruise. Trump flags galore and greeting of the day across the water is **** Joe Biden.

Indeed. A lot of Americans prefer Trump to law enforcement, rule of law, national security, basic decency, etc. Funny how most folks decrying  “banana republics”the last week seem to want to live in one. Seems to be especially prevalent among a**holes with boats.

[SaltyTiger 7,838]

29 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

That’s my understanding. Whatever exceptions may exist, it doesn’t seem like Melania would accidentally pack them.

Doubt Melania packed them by mistake. Could have been a government specified SCIF area at Mar A Lago for temporary use during Trumps presidency. Documents never returned with saying FU to the subpoena.

 

[TexasTiger 12,975]

3 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Doubt Melania packed them by mistake. Could have been a government specified SCIF area at Mar A Lago for temporary use during Trumps presidency. Documents never returned with saying FU to the subpoena.

 

Trump’s early defense was things packed by mistake. We’ll see how it unfolds. If there was such a thing as a temporary MAL SCIF, seems they’d have used that defense— I haven’t seen it. Have you are or you speculating?