Republicans = Trump

[TexasTiger 12,897]

Some folks here take issue with me pointing out that the Republican Party has become utterly irredeemable and hopelessly committed to Trump. They claim it’s somehow the Democrats that keep Trump relevant, not Republicans. While that’s illogical on its face, they persist. Beyond what is apparent, however are the numbers that drive it home:

“For starters, 71 percent of Republican likely primary voters do not believe Trump has committed any federal crimes. The same percentage believes that “Republicans need to stand behind Trump” when it comes to investigations. Of the 71 percent who say he hasn’t committed federal crimes, just 10 percent were willing to concede that he did something wrong, just nothing criminal. This leaves a comfortable majority of GOP primary voters who believe that Trump has done nothing wrong.”

https://plus.thebulwark.com/p/nyt-siena-poll-blows-up-scott-youngkin-fantasy

The base is largely a cult to a leader.

Long-term, never Trump Republicans best bet is forming another party. But being strongly anti-abortion and eliminating Medicare & Social Security won’t get them much support. There’s never been enough support for those positions. But if they want to be a slightly center-right party reminiscent of Eisenhower, but perhaps either leaving abortion to the states or allowing it to 20 weeks with exceptions for life of the mother or unviabilty of the fetus, with middle of the road positions on social issues and common sense reform to shore up SS & Medicare they could capture most independents a sizable chunk of Democrats and some Republicans.

 

[TexasTiger 12,897]

The three stages:

https://twitter.com/saletan/status/1686371687430758400?s=20

[auburnatl1 4,935]

While I agree the Republican  party is hopelessly screwed up, the Democratic Party is not recognizable to me either. But if you want say that the republicans are winning the crazy contest, fine. However, as I’ve said before, imo both parties need to reboot quickly to something way less extreme - or they’ll be 3rd party pulverized very soon. 

[KansasTiger 3,248]

The media and the left dug this hole themselves. They lied and slanted the news for years about trump, then want people to believe them about trump now. Maybe he committed federal crimes, maybe he didn't, but most on the right know that when it comes to news on Trump, the MSM can't be trusted. They cried wolf too many times, and now they've greatly diminished their ability to affect the narrative for half the country.

[KansasTiger 3,248]

Just now, auburnatl1 said:

While I agree the Republican  party is hopelessly screwed up, the Democratic Party is not recognizable to me either. But if you want say that the republicans are winning the crazy contest, fine. However, as I’ve said before, imo both parties need to reboot quickly to something way less extreme - or they’ll be 3rd party pulverized very soon. 

I like your sentiment, but disagree with your third party optimism. Thats what I want to happen, but that's not what's likely to happen from my own observations. People will stick to their party lines out of fear that not doing so creates the worst outcome of all in their mind...the other side winning.

[I_M4_AU 7,848]

1 minute ago, KansasTiger said:

The media and the left dug this hole themselves. They lied and slanted the news for years about trump, then want people to believe them about trump now. Maybe he committed federal crimes, maybe he didn't, but most on the right know that when it comes to news on Trump, the MSM can't be trusted. They cried wolf too many times, and now they've greatly diminished their ability to affect the narrative for half the country.

This.  It didn’t happen overnight.  The Dems were after Trump based on a lie and perpetuated that lie for years.  Trump beat it and endeared himself to a lot of people because he beat the system.  What hasn’t happened was the disgust of his 2020 loss to Biden that people should have turned on Trump just on principle.

Trump has a personality that has been essential to have for a President since Obama.  Obama had no experience to be even considered for the Presidency, but the media didn’t care.  The reason Trump won in 2016 was personality going against Hillary that didn’t have one.  Trump lost the 2020 election because his personality became toxic to many.

It’s also the reason he is leading the Republican Party because DeSantis has much more experience with the policies that can lead the party, but no body is listening to that, they are focusing on DeSantis’ personality.  The focus on entertaining the masses instead of good policy has to stop.  We need to get rid of both Biden and Trump. JMO.

[arein0 958]

20 minutes ago, KansasTiger said:

The media and the left dug this hole themselves. They lied and slanted the news for years about trump, then want people to believe them about trump now. Maybe he committed federal crimes, maybe he didn't, but most on the right know that when it comes to news on Trump, the MSM can't be trusted. They cried wolf too many times, and now they've greatly diminished their ability to affect the narrative for half the country.

Yup, it's the left's fault the right fell into the Trump cult 

[arein0 958]

8 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

This.  It didn’t happen overnight.  The Dems were after Trump based on a lie and perpetuated that lie for years.  Trump beat it and endeared himself to a lot of people because he beat the system.  What hasn’t happened was the disgust of his 2020 loss to Biden that people should have turned on Trump just on principle.

Trump has a personality that has been essential to have for a President since Obama.  Obama had no experience to be even considered for the Presidency, but the media didn’t care.  The reason Trump won in 2016 was personality going against Hillary that didn’t have one.  Trump lost the 2020 election because his personality became toxic to many.

It’s also the reason he is leading the Republican Party because DeSantis has much more experience with the policies that can lead the party, but no body is listening to that, they are focusing on DeSantis’ personality.  The focus on entertaining the masses instead of good policy has to stop.  We need to get rid of both Biden and Trump. JMO.

Trump's personality has always been toxic.

[I_M4_AU 7,848]

37 minutes ago, arein0 said:

Trump's personality has always been toxic.

Except during the 2016 election cycle, right?  It had nothing to do with Hillary’s lack of personality and those were the only two choices was it?

Edited August 1, 2023 by I_M4_AU

[KansasTiger 3,248]

7 minutes ago, arein0 said:

Yup, it's the left's fault the right fell into the Trump cult 

I would say they played a sizeable role, yes.

[I_M4_AU 7,848]

11 minutes ago, arein0 said:

Yup, it's the left's fault the right fell into the Trump cult 

Now that you mention it, if the Dems (left) had just let Trump run the country instead of trying to ruin his presidency because of a lie the public would have seen what he could do in governing the country.  As it was, the Dems actually played into Trump’s strength by accusing him of something he knew he didn’t do and he beat them at their own game.  Trying to manipulate the masses and failing are the way legends are made.

Edited August 1, 2023 by I_M4_AU

[TexasTiger 12,897]

16 minutes ago, KansasTiger said:

The media and the left dug this hole themselves. They lied and slanted the news for years about trump, then want people to believe them about trump now. Maybe he committed federal crimes, maybe he didn't, but most on the right know that when it comes to news on Trump, the MSM can't be trusted. They cried wolf too many times, and now they've greatly diminished their ability to affect the narrative for half the country.

What lies were told ? Links?

[TexasTiger 12,897]

27 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Except during the 2016 election cycle, right?  It had nothing to do with Hillary’s lack of personality and those were the two choices as it?

I don’t like Hillary. Lousy politician. Poor campaign. Still the overwhelmingly obvious choice in 2016 general.

[I_M4_AU 7,848]

4 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

I don’t like Hillary. Lousy politician. Poor campaign. Still the overwhelmingly obvious choice in 2016 general.

She created no interest and that was the difference.  Dems stayed home, the only reason she lost.

[KansasTiger 3,248]

28 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

She created no interest and that was the difference.  Dems stayed home, the only reason she lost.

That and her body count.

[TexasTiger 12,897]

6 minutes ago, KansasTiger said:

That and her body count.

Are you serious?

[arein0 958]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

Except during the 2016 election cycle, right?  It had nothing to do with Hillary’s lack of personality and those were the only two choices was it?

If your point is that he had a personality, regardless of toxicity, and Hillary didn't then sure. But I wouldn't exactly say Biden has a personality either.

I'm saying is that his personality hasn't changed throughout the years, he has been the same since before his Apprentice days.

 

[KansasTiger 3,248]

11 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Are you serious?

[auburnatl1 4,935]

1 hour ago, KansasTiger said:

I would say they played a sizeable role, yes.

I kinda see your point. I’m not sure it’s about fault as it is about consequence. Chicken/egg. Imo There is always part of the population that fears and distrusts big government. They’re coming to take away my rights, stuff, kids, something.  Obama moved quickly into expanding gov scope, then Bernie started talking about privatizing some industries, borders lost control, defund police, covid over reach, self proclaimed socialists everywhere, litigation overkill, and, finally, the media belittling anyone who didn’t agree with all of this. The immune system reacted /exploded and continues to react in trying to balance - plus add that crazies finally figured out that they could vote.

Now everyday is good vs evil melodrama, with moderates just trying to figure out where they even fit.

[I_M4_AU 7,848]

1 hour ago, arein0 said:

If your point is that he had a personality, regardless of toxicity, and Hillary didn't then sure. But I wouldn't exactly say Biden has a personality either.

I'm saying is that his personality hasn't changed throughout the years, he has been the same since before his Apprentice days.

 

He is an entertainer, that’s his brand.  It worked in 2016, failed in 2020 and yet to be seen in 2024.  The 2020 race was a referendum about Trump.  Trump will try to make 2024 a referendum about Biden’s corruption and his economy.  The Dems are trying their best to pin something on Trump.  If they fail, they lose.  I still believe Trump can’t win the independent vote and he loses unless there is a third party or just plan apathy.

[KansasTiger 3,248]

12 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

He is an entertainer, that’s his brand.  It worked in 2016, failed in 2020 and yet to be seen in 2024.  The 2020 race was a referendum about Trump.  Trump will try to make 2024 a referendum about Biden’s corruption and his economy.  The Dems are trying their best to pin something on Trump.  If they fail, they lose.  I still believe Trump can’t win the independent vote and he loses unless there is a third party or just plan apathy.

Ehhhhhh I'm not sure thats exactly how it will play out. If it's a Trump v Biden general he has a decent shot at winning a fair election.

[I_M4_AU 7,848]

4 minutes ago, KansasTiger said:

Ehhhhhh I'm not sure thats exactly how it will play out. If it's a Trump v Biden general he has a decent shot at winning a fair election.

I’m would much rather have a different choice.

[KansasTiger 3,248]

1 minute ago, I_M4_AU said:

I’m would much rather have a different choice.

I'm not disagreeing. Though I'm struggling to find anyone I like and I know the few people I can stand in the field have no shot.

I'm just stating it would be close if that was the ticket.

[auburnatl1 4,935]

6 minutes ago, KansasTiger said:

Ehhhhhh I'm not sure thats exactly how it will play out. If it's a Trump v Biden general he has a decent shot at winning a fair election.

The fact that you’re injecting  “fair” is something else that most people are beyond fatigued by. And reason #17 that if people are depressingly forced to pick between 4 more years of trump and … literally anything with a pulse. The pulse will win by 10pts.

[KansasTiger 3,248]

34 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

The fact that you’re injecting  “fair” is something else that most people are beyond fatigued by. And reason #17 that if people are depressingly forced to pick between 4 more years of trump and … literally anything with a pulse. The pulse will win by 10pts.

You're making some assumptions by what I mean. And it's probably not what you assume. But I'm not sure I particularly care.