OL Recruiting Concerns And Transfer Debate

[DAG 33,995]

“Never argue with a fool. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.” 

― Mark Twain

[AuburnNTexas 7,151]

15 hours ago, Mikey said:

Freeze has done well at other positions. What's up with the O-line?

Lets put a little perspective on the O-Line recruiting. Ideally teams would like to average 4 O-line every year.  Since most O-line redshirt that means you should have about 20 eligible O-Line every year.  Because of attrition some years you will need more than 4. Counting portal players Auburn has brought in 5 players per year even though to be honest all count to 2023 class.

1st year

Connor Lew - IOL- great pickup

Tyler Johnson - OT - has size and frame but will need time to develop as do most O-line

Clay Wedin - IOL - good pickup who will develop

Brayden Joyner - IOL - good pickup who will develop

Izavion Miller - OT - JC Player who could start this year

Dylan Senda - IOL/OT - Portal so may not technically be in 2023 class but 4 years eligibility

That is 6 O-Line in 1st year - I am counting Senda since he is a 2023 player.  5 of them are true Freshmen.

Portal  Players 

Dillon Wade OT - Starter

Gunner Britton - OT - Possible Starter

Avery Jones - Starter

Jayden Muskrat - IOL - could compete as starter and is a Junior 

So far no O-line this year and that is somewhat disappointing but name me one year where we got 5 Freshman O-Line and JUCO O-line in same class. I also believe but am not 100% sure that Dillon Wade could have one more year because of Covid so is equivalent of a JUCO player in eligibility if I am correct. 

So far no O-line in 2024 class and there is no way to sugar coat it that is disappointing but if we could pull in Carter and then flip one player that would give us 8 total freshman players in 2023 and 2024 class plus the JUCO player which means the goal of at least 4 players per class.

Next year is when the rubber hits the road as we will need at least 2-4 Portal players plus 4-6 HS players. By then staff will have been on some players for a little over 2 years and will have nobody to blame but themselves.

Players available next year:

Dillon Wade - Jr - OT

Tate Johnson -Jr - IOL

Braydyn Joyner - FR - IOL

E.J. Harris -RFR - OT

Jaden Muskrat - JR - OT/IOL 

Dylan Senda - FR - OT/IOL

Izavion Miller -JR - OT

Conner Lew - FR - IOL

Clay Wedin FR - IOL

Jeremiah Wright - JR - OT/IOL

Tyler Johnson - FR - OT

I am not counting any seniors that might have a Covid year. It appears we will have about 11 eligible linemen returning next year of which 2 to 4 could be returning starters or players who have started some games (Wayde, Tate Johnson, Miller, Wight) . This puts us in a much better position then when Freeze arrived. I am not saying 11 is enough but if Freeze and staff can pull on some Portal next year and a big HS class we should be well on the way to having the type of O-line that will be needed in the future. 

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by AuburnNTexas

[Gowebb11 9,328]

I think people forget that Freeze has been our coach for only 8 months and had to spend all winter in the portal in a roster rebuild. What he’s been able to in such a short time in the HS ranks is like nothing I have seen out of an AU coach. He will find us a few more O linemen between now and signing day. . 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Gowebb11

[tbone4jc 2,241]

50 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

I think people forget that Freeze has been our coach for only 8 months and had to spend all winter in the portal in a roster rebuild. What he’s been able to in such a short time in the HS ranks is like nothing I have seen out of an AU coach. He will find us a few more O linemen between now and signing day. . 

But will they be 2* diamonds just to fill out the roster?

8 months or no we are able to get quality recruits at almost every other position this cycle. But with the OLine being the most critical of needs we are lacking big time. This was the big bugaboo for the two previous regimes.

I am being patient because it’s only the 2nd cycle under CHF. I cannot say I am not a little uneasy about this, if I am being completely honest.

[Gowebb11 9,328]

1 hour ago, tbone4jc said:

But will they be 2* diamonds just to fill out the roster?

Maybe. But I’m betting they will be more like Clay Wedin and Connor Lew who he convinced to flip from other schools. I share your concerns from the 2 precious regimes but this staff will find a way. 

[ellitor 33,102]

3 hours ago, tbone4jc said:

But will they be 2* diamonds just to fill out the roster?

 

@tbone4jc No. Freeze will take quality transfers like he did the last cycle before taking high schoolers to just fill the roster.

3 hours ago, tbone4jc said:

I am being patient because it’s only the 2nd cycle under CHF. I cannot say I am not a little uneasy about this, if I am being completely honest.

Remember to factor in transfers when looking at players added. For the 2023 class we added 10 new scholly OL. 5 high schoolers, 1 juco, and 4 transfers. Our starting OL in 2023 is expected to be made up of likely 4 of the 10 new players. I'm not going to worry about this OL class til we get to June without filling roster needs, whether it be by HS or transfers.

[bigbird 60,564]

7 hours ago, AuburnNTexas said:

Lets put a little perspective on the O-Line recruiting. Ideally teams would like to average 4 O-line every year.  Since most O-line redshirt that means you should have about 20 eligible O-Line every year.  Because of attrition some years you will need more than 4. Counting portal players Auburn has brought in 5 players per year even though to be honest all count to 2023 class.

1st year

Connor Lew - IOL- great pickup

Tyler Johnson - OT - has size and frame but will need time to develop as do most O-line

Clay Wedin - IOL - good pickup who will develop

Brayden Joyner - IOL - good pickup who will develop

Izavion Miller - OT - JC Player who could start this year

Dylan Senda - IOL/OT - Portal so may not technically be in 2023 class but 4 years eligibility

That is 6 O-Line in 1st year - I am counting Senda since he is a 2023 player.  5 of them are true Freshmen.

Portal  Players 

Dillon Wade OT - Starter

Gunner Britton - OT - Possible Starter

Avery Jones - Starter

Jayden Muskrat - IOL - could compete as starter and is a Junior 

So far no O-line this year and that is somewhat disappointing but name me one year where we got 5 Freshman O-Line and JUCO O-line in same class. I also believe but am not 100% sure that Dillon Wade could have one more year because of Covid so is equivalent of a JUCO player in eligibility if I am correct. 

So far no O-line in 2024 class and there is no way to sugar coat it that is disappointing but if we could pull in Carter and then flip one player that would give us 8 total freshman players in 2023 and 2024 class plus the JUCO player which means the goal of at least 4 players per class.

Next year is when the rubber hits the road as we will need at least 2-4 Portal players plus 4-6 HS players. By then staff will have been on some players for a little over 2 years and will have nobody to blame but themselves.

Players available next year:

Dillon Wade - Jr - OT

Tate Johnson -Jr - IOL

Braydyn Joyner - FR - IOL

E.J. Harris -RFR - OT

Jaden Muskrat - JR - OT/IOL 

Dylan Senda - FR - OT/IOL

Izavion Miller -JR - OT

Conner Lew - FR - IOL

Clay Wedin FR - IOL

Jeremiah Wright - JR - OT/IOL

Tyler Johnson - FR - OT

I am not counting any seniors that might have a Covid year. It appears we will have about 11 eligible linemen returning next year of which 2 to 4 could be returning starters or players who have started some games (Wayde, Tate Johnson, Miller, Wight) . This puts us in a much better position then when Freeze arrived. I am not saying 11 is enough but if Freeze and staff can pull on some Portal next year and a big HS class we should be well on the way to having the type of O-line that will be needed in the future. 

 

Would you say we have depth? 

 

😉

[AuburnNTexas 7,151]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

Would you say we have depth? 

 

😉

Not enough yet. but with a couple HS players in this class plus Portal and a good HS class next year I think we will be getting close to where we need to be in both quality and depth.  I am seeing good recruiting results with Freeze especially if you include Portal in the equation even on the O-line. That said without a couple of HS players with potential to be SEC starters in the future in this class and if we don't have another decent Portal class and HS class next year then all bets are off.  Freeze has shown he can get Portal O-line so real question is with a two year relationship can he get great 2025 HS O-Line.  

How this season plays out on the field might help. I don't mean win the SEC west type season but 7-5 or better with solid O-line play showing what we can do when we have talent would help. It might even help us with players we are trying to flip as they seem to like Freeze and Auburn but want to see product on the field.

[Mikey 16,622]

2 hours ago, bigbird said:

Would you say we have depth? 

 

😉

Would you? 11 were listed for next year. Once upon a time you claimed 18 weren't enough.

[tbone4jc 2,241]

9 hours ago, ellitor said:

@tbone4jc No. Freeze will take quality transfers like he did the last cycle before taking high schoolers to just fill the roster.

Remember to factor in transfers when looking at players added. For the 2023 class we added 10 new scholly OL. 5 high schoolers, 1 juco, and 4 transfers. Our starting OL in 2023 is expected to be made up of likely 4 of the 10 new players. I'm not going to worry about this OL class til we get to June without filling roster needs, whether it be by HS or transfers.

I get what you are saying but transfers are not a fix, just a bandaid. My talking point is high school kids that we can  mold into the kinda OLine men by the time they are in their sophomore/junior year, so we don’t have to rely on 3* transfers that may or may not work out in the SEC (not yet proven).
I’m not saying all is lost but I’m a little perplex as to why we can get 5* and 4* recruits out of high school for most other positions but not OLine?  Juat my perspective!! I am very happy with most everything else so far!

[DAG 33,995]

15 hours ago, AuburnNTexas said:

Lets put a little perspective on the O-Line recruiting. Ideally teams would like to average 4 O-line every year.  Since most O-line redshirt that means you should have about 20 eligible O-Line every year.  Because of attrition some years you will need more than 4. Counting portal players Auburn has brought in 5 players per year even though to be honest all count to 2023 class.

1st year

Connor Lew - IOL- great pickup

Tyler Johnson - OT - has size and frame but will need time to develop as do most O-line

Clay Wedin - IOL - good pickup who will develop

Brayden Joyner - IOL - good pickup who will develop

Izavion Miller - OT - JC Player who could start this year

Dylan Senda - IOL/OT - Portal so may not technically be in 2023 class but 4 years eligibility

That is 6 O-Line in 1st year - I am counting Senda since he is a 2023 player.  5 of them are true Freshmen.

Portal  Players 

Dillon Wade OT - Starter

Gunner Britton - OT - Possible Starter

Avery Jones - Starter

Jayden Muskrat - IOL - could compete as starter and is a Junior 

So far no O-line this year and that is somewhat disappointing but name me one year where we got 5 Freshman O-Line and JUCO O-line in same class. I also believe but am not 100% sure that Dillon Wade could have one more year because of Covid so is equivalent of a JUCO player in eligibility if I am correct. 

So far no O-line in 2024 class and there is no way to sugar coat it that is disappointing but if we could pull in Carter and then flip one player that would give us 8 total freshman players in 2023 and 2024 class plus the JUCO player which means the goal of at least 4 players per class.

Next year is when the rubber hits the road as we will need at least 2-4 Portal players plus 4-6 HS players. By then staff will have been on some players for a little over 2 years and will have nobody to blame but themselves.

Players available next year:

Dillon Wade - Jr - OT

Tate Johnson -Jr - IOL

Braydyn Joyner - FR - IOL

E.J. Harris -RFR - OT

Jaden Muskrat - JR - OT/IOL 

Dylan Senda - FR - OT/IOL

Izavion Miller -JR - OT

Conner Lew - FR - IOL

Clay Wedin FR - IOL

Jeremiah Wright - JR - OT/IOL

Tyler Johnson - FR - OT

I am not counting any seniors that might have a Covid year. It appears we will have about 11 eligible linemen returning next year of which 2 to 4 could be returning starters or players who have started some games (Wayde, Tate Johnson, Miller, Wight) . This puts us in a much better position then when Freeze arrived. I am not saying 11 is enough but if Freeze and staff can pull on some Portal next year and a big HS class we should be well on the way to having the type of O-line that will be needed in the future. 

 

Great post 

[ellitor 33,102]

4 hours ago, tbone4jc said:

I get what you are saying but transfers are not a fix, just a bandaid

@tbone4jc That’s aged and outdated thinking to a bit.

4 hours ago, tbone4jc said:

My talking point is high school kids that we can  mold into the kinda OLine men by the time they are in their sophomore/junior year, so we don’t have to rely on 3* transfers that may or may not work out in the SEC (not yet proven).

OK. Your thinking is of an idealistic world but for 99% of the teams at the FBS level that’s not reality anymore. Of the 130+ FBS teams only 1 to 2 teams per year are gonna be able to completely for the most part, replenish their O line from within. The rest of the teams will have to use some sort of transfer on a yearly basis to replenish their starters from the previous year. Even when you’re recruiting great on paper from the high school level at the OL, when you have starters move on (either to the NFL or to another school because they were offered a better NIL deal) , some of the next group may not always be ready yet (because not every staff develops talent well) or want to move on because they dont want to wait at your school to be a starter, so you’re going to have to take some OL transfers on a near yearly basis. Also, for the record three of the transfer OL we took were 4* based off their work so far in college.

4 hours ago, tbone4jc said:

I’m a little perplex as to why we can get 5* and 4* recruits out of high school for most other positions but not OLine?

It has been stated countless times the past few months, and you may have missed it, but there just aren’t many five and four-star OL in this class. There’s only one five star and only a handful four stars, and most of them are not in our recruiting area in the southeast.

[Mikey 16,622]

8 minutes ago, ellitor said:

Also, for the record three of the transfer OL we took were 4* based off their work so far in college.

4* based on their performance against, for the most part, lower level teams. They may work out here, they may not. It's not like getting 4* high school guys and letting them mature for a couple of years. Those that are still around after two years you pretty much know what you have. The transfers are an unknown quality and you won't know the whole story with them until an SEC DT or DE is lined up across from them.

 

[toddc 13,194]

5 minutes ago, Mikey said:

4* based on their performance against, for the most part, lower level teams. They may work out here, they may not. It's not like getting 4* high school guys and letting them mature for a couple of years. Those that are still around after two years you pretty much know what you have. The transfers are an unknown quality and you won't know the whole story with them until an SEC DT or DE is lined up across from them.

 

Are high school kids getting stars higher or lower based off what level of competition they play? I don’t think so. It’s based on current ability and future perceived potential based off of objective data used to rank players at every level.

Edited August 26, 2023 by toddc

[ellitor 33,102]

5 minutes ago, toddc said:

Are high school kids getting stars higher or lower based off what level of competition they play? I don’t think so. It’s based on current ability and future perceived potential.

[Mikey 16,622]

10 minutes ago, toddc said:

Are high school kids getting stars higher or lower based off what level of competition they play? I don’t think so. It’s based on current ability and future perceived potential based off of objective data used to rank players at every level.

We're about to find out how the transfer ratings work out. I suspect that the time/effort used to rate portal players is less than 1/10 per capita than high school ratings.

[toddc 13,194]

12 minutes ago, Mikey said:

We're about to find out how the transfer ratings work out. I suspect that the time/effort used to rate portal players is less than 1/10 per capita than high school ratings.

That’s possible for the past as far as time spent but that’s changing dramatically in the new era of free agency brother. E can maybe expand on but I would think teams have a dedicated transfer recruitment guy these days. If not they better get one.

Edited August 26, 2023 by toddc

[ellitor 33,102]

4 minutes ago, toddc said:

I would think teams have a dedicated transfer recruitment guys these days

FIFY

[augolf1716 21,207]

40 minutes ago, toddc said:

I would think teams have a dedicated transfer recruitment guy these days. If not they better get one.

Transfer recruitment department

[tbone4jc 2,241]

4 hours ago, ellitor said:

@tbone4jc That’s aged and outdated thinking to a bit.

OK. Your thinking is of an idealistic world but for 99% of the teams at the FBS level that’s not reality anymore. Of the 130+ FBS teams only 1 to 2 teams per year are gonna be able to completely for the most part, replenish their O line from within. The rest of the teams will have to use some sort of transfer on a yearly basis to replenish their starters from the previous year. Even when you’re recruiting great on paper from the high school level at the OL, when you have starters move on (either to the NFL or to another school because they were offered a better NIL deal) , some of the next group may not always be ready yet (because not every staff develops talent well) or want to move on because they dont want to wait at your school to be a starter, so you’re going to have to take some OL transfers on a near yearly basis. Also, for the record three of the transfer OL we took were 4* based off their work so far in college.

It has been stated countless times the past few months, and you may have missed it, but there just aren’t many five and four-star OL in this class. There’s only one five star and only a handful four stars, and most of them are not in our recruiting area in the southeast.

I’m not creating an argument. These are my thoughts. So you are telling me that the uAts, Gas, OSUs Michigans of the world rely on transfer portals? No. They recruit top high school players and develope them from within. All the major college programs that remain successful continue this. They may take one or two OLine men occasionally from the transfer portal but  not often?

I tire of hearing the excuses of “lack of quality players” people use. There were plenty of quality OLine men we missed, but we may get ONE. 
 

Some Fans are salivating over this years transfer players but not one has played in SEC competition and they are practicing against one of the bottom three defenses in the SEC (10th in the league last season, 11th against the run ) yes our defense.

I’ve kept low key during this process so far but to dismiss people with legitimate factual concerns is asinine. Yes we are in desperate need of OLine men, yes we got some transfer portal linemen from mostly smaller schools, yes it is an upgrade(supposedly) from last years, which ain’t saying much.

The play on the field will be the deciding factor for me, until then it’s just a bunch of talk and the lack of high school recruits is concerning for me! I’m done venting, now back to sipping tea…

[ellitor 33,102]

1 hour ago, tbone4jc said:

I’m not creating an argument. These are my thoughts.

I know you aren't creating an argument and I know those are your thoughts.We are having a civilized difference of opimiom.

1 hour ago, tbone4jc said:

So you are telling me that the uAts, Gas, OSUs Michigans of the world rely on transfer portals? No. They recruit top high school players and develope them from within. All the major college programs that remain successful continue this. 

Actually yes to some extent, especially on the OL. Right now all but UGA and maybe 1 other team on a yearly basis are relying on transfers to some  degree. This year the 1 other team that didn't on the OL was Bama. Michigan took 9 transfers including 3 on the OL. Ohio St. took 9 including 2 on the OL. The top teams try to develop from within but they see that's not full atainable anymore for 97-99% of the teams in today's college football.

1 hour ago, tbone4jc said:

They may take one or two OLine men occasionally from the transfer portal but  not often?

I bet even most top schools will take at least 1-2 OL transfers nearly every year.

1 hour ago, tbone4jc said:

I tire of hearing the excuses of “lack of quality players” people use.

Whether you tire of it or not is irrelevant. It's reality. 

1 hour ago, tbone4jc said:

There were plenty of quality OLine men we missed, but we may get ONE. 

1 wave of OLs we liked. That's not many. And there aren't many other OL we like as evidenced to us not moving on from top targets committed to other teams. If we don't flip some of those huys, it looks like we are hitting the portal hard again after this season.

1 hour ago, tbone4jc said:

Some Fans are salivating over this years transfer players but not one has played in SEC competition and they are practicing against one of the bottom three defenses in the SEC (10th in the league last season, 11th against the run ) yes our defense.

Ok but like @toddc said that's still quite a bit better than the competition most high schoolers are going against.

1 hour ago, tbone4jc said:

I’ve kept low key during this process so far but to dismiss people with legitimate factual concerns is asinine.

Nobody has been dismissed. With that said, it's equally as asinine not to be open to new things or ideas on how things are being done, especially when facts are emerging in that direction.

1 hour ago, tbone4jc said:

The play on the field will be the deciding factor for me, until then it’s just a bunch of talk and the lack of high school recruits is concerning for me! I’m done venting, now back to sipping tea…

Fair.

[AuburnNTexas 7,151]

2 hours ago, tbone4jc said:

I’m not creating an argument. These are my thoughts. So you are telling me that the uAts, Gas, OSUs Michigans of the world rely on transfer portals? No. They recruit top high school players and develope them from within. All the major college programs that remain successful continue this. They may take one or two OLine men occasionally from the transfer portal but  not often?

I tire of hearing the excuses of “lack of quality players” people use. There were plenty of quality OLine men we missed, but we may get ONE. 
 

Some Fans are salivating over this years transfer players but not one has played in SEC competition and they are practicing against one of the bottom three defenses in the SEC (10th in the league last season, 11th against the run ) yes our defense.

I’ve kept low key during this process so far but to dismiss people with legitimate factual concerns is asinine. Yes we are in desperate need of OLine men, yes we got some transfer portal linemen from mostly smaller schools, yes it is an upgrade(supposedly) from last years, which ain’t saying much.

The play on the field will be the deciding factor for me, until then it’s just a bunch of talk and the lack of high school recruits is concerning for me! I’m done venting, now back to sipping tea…

Ellitor already responded to what you said. All you said are valid points especially that play on the field is what will determine how good our O-line plays. As for comparing HS O-line to transfer players albeit from lower divisions. While they have not played a full SEC season some have played against an SEC team or  other Div 1 teams so we actually know more about them than any HS Player. 

HS player rankings are often based on potential. The OT who is 6'5"+ already is 300+pounds and has played against higher level competition so the expectation is they will continue to get better and many do.  But with O-Line there are many kids from smaller schools who have the frame 6'5"+ but not the mass as they didn't have the great weight program and who did not play against the best competition so it is harder to judge how good they are or maybe.  A lot of the transfers are kids who after they got into a college program with the right strength and conditioning blossomed and are a more known quantity then the HS players.

My point is even with HS players it is a bit of a crap shoot with a few exceptions. That is why most teams need about 20 O-line on roster to allow some to develop, some won't make it and hopefully have a core of 10-12 who are ready to play at SEC Level. 

In about 5-6 weeks we will know what we have on the O-line and how much work we will need to do.  

[tbone4jc 2,241]

1 hour ago, ellitor said:

Nobody has been dismissed. With that said, it's equally as asinine not to be open to new things or ideas on how things are being done, especially when facts are emerging in that direction.

I think I’ll just disagree with you on this one and leave it at that

[bigbird 60,564]

It's strange, I've been hammering our OL recruiting for years but I feel better about this OL. Numbers aside we haven't had the necessary players to provide any competition or requisite depth. As of now, for this year, we have that for the first time in ages. A legit two deep that could all play.  Now there will be drop off but not Kaleb kim and Mike Horton blocking from their butts level of drop off.  

The plan has always been recruit a few HS OL each year that fit perfectly and will develop but recruit the portal very heavily the first two to three years until the HS OL we have brought in are developed.  We were so deficient for so long that we literally have had to rebuild the entire two deep in only 8 months. 

[ellitor 33,102]

7 hours ago, bigbird said:

We were so deficient for so long that we literally have had to rebuild the entire two deep in only 8 months. 

Yup! At minimum all 4 transfers, the juco, & 2 incoming freshment are in the 2 deep.