Haley beats Biden by … 17 pts?!

[auburnatl1 5,014]

17 points is nuts. And it’s increasing each poll.  While Trump and Biden are still even with epic disapproval scores.
 

https://www.newsnationnow.com/politics/2024-election/haley-leads-biden-wsj-poll/amp/

[LPTiger 5,173]

We need more Haley.  Isn't that an SNL skit...

[KansasTiger 3,254]

12 hours ago, auburnatl1 said:

17 points is nuts. And it’s increasing each poll.  While Trump and Biden are still even with epic disapproval scores.
 

https://www.newsnationnow.com/politics/2024-election/haley-leads-biden-wsj-poll/amp/

But has no chance in the primary. And id hardly call Trump and Biden even. Polls show he is anywhere from 2-6 points ahead.

The truth is the GOP is splitting into two parties. And over half the party wants nothing to do with her. And the argument that we need to pick the more electable candidate doesn't hold water with how bad Biden is polling. So those that can't stand Haley, count me among them, have no incentive to cross the line to give her the massive boost she needs in the primary. But in truth, that argument never held water, otherwise DeSantis wouldn't have opened his campaign immediately down 30 to Trump back before Biden's polling tanked like it is.

[AU9377 5,026]

42 minutes ago, KansasTiger said:

But has no chance in the primary. And id hardly call Trump and Biden even. Polls show he is anywhere from 2-6 points ahead.

The truth is the GOP is splitting into two parties. And over half the party wants nothing to do with her. And the argument that we need to pick the more electable candidate doesn't hold water with how bad Biden is polling. So those that can't stand Haley, count me among them, have no incentive to cross the line to give her the massive boost she needs in the primary. But in truth, that argument never held water, otherwise DeSantis wouldn't have opened his campaign immediately down 30 to Trump back before Biden's polling tanked like it is.

Poll numbers go up and down.  Just wait until Trump starts opening that self serving mouth of his and reminding everyone of what a lunatic he is.  Haley, I believe, could win the general election.  I would consider voting for her.  My parents, both in Georgia and both in their late 70s would certainly vote for her.  They won't vote for Trump.  They make up a group of voters that elected 2 Democrat Senators and delivered the state for Biden in 2020 because of Trump. 

[KansasTiger 3,254]

6 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Poll numbers go up and down.  Just wait until Trump starts opening that self serving mouth of his and reminding everyone of what a lunatic he is.  Haley, I believe, could win the general election.  I would consider voting for her.  My parents, both in Georgia and both in their late 70s would certainly vote for her.  They won't vote for Trump.  They make up a group of voters that elected 2 Democrat Senators and delivered the state for Biden in 2020 because of Trump. 

Hang your hat on the hope that the public forgot who Trump was while being constantly reminded by today's MSM. They'll all come to their senses, eventually! Its about all you have left.

Haley has zero chance in the primary and I couldn't be happier about it. And UGA is trending Trump so much the dems started moving resources away from there.

Edited December 13, 2023 by KansasTiger

[auburnatl1 5,014]

1 hour ago, KansasTiger said:

Haley has zero chance in the primary and I couldn't be happier about it. And UGA is trending Trump so much the dems started moving resources away from there.

She is trending but imo all gop candidates but Haley would need drop out by super tues for her math to work.   Which is doubtful. 

 

 

[KansasTiger 3,254]

8 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

She is trending but imo all gop candidates but Haley would need drop out by super tues for her math to work.   Which is doubtful. 

 

 

She was gaining some ground and passing Desantis, but we'll see if it sticks. I'm curious to see how her debate performance might affect that. Vivek might be crude and brash at times, but his takedown of her as an uncaring corrupt neocon who just wants war doesn't even know the name of the regions she wants to send troops/money/arms to I thought was somewhat effective. It was risky. All she needed to do was lean in to the mic and name a few Eastern Ukrainian regions and Vivek's political campaign would have been over. But she didn't know any. In fact, she looked like a deer in the headlights during that whole situation, afraid to say anything. I'm curious to see how the polls reflect how that all played out.

Today's polls have her dipping down below Desantis again, but I don't know if I put much stock in that just yet. I've never trusted economist/YouGov or NPR as my preferred polls of choice.

Edited December 13, 2023 by KansasTiger

[AUDub 11,178]

Biden isn’t really even campaigning yet so I wouldn’t put too much stock into any polling. It’s all GIGO. 

[KansasTiger 3,254]

5 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Biden isn’t really even campaigning yet so I wouldn’t put too much stock into any polling. It’s all GIGO. 

So not much different than his 2020 campaign...

[auburnatl1 5,014]

6 minutes ago, KansasTiger said:

She was gaining some ground and passing Desantis, but we'll see if it sticks. I'm curious to see how her debate performance might affect that. Vivek might be crude and brash at times, but his takedown of her as an uncaring corrupt neocon who just wants war doesn't even know the name of the regions she wants to send troops/money/arms to I thought was somewhat effective. It was risky. All she needed to do was lean in to the mic and name a few Eastern Ukrainian regions and Vivek's political campaign would have been over. But she didn't know any. In fact, she looked like a deer in the headlights during that whole situation, afraid to say anything. I'm curious to see how the polls reflect how that all played out.

Today's polls have her dipping down below Desantis again, but I don't know if I put much stock in that just yet. I've never trusted economist/YouGov or NPR as my preferred polls of choice.

IMO the only gop grownups are Haley and Desantis.  Watching those 2 ideologically face off without the game show host candidates would  be an interesting  debate between classic conservatism and maga.

[KansasTiger 3,254]

4 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

IMO the only gop grownups are Haley and Desantis.  Watching those 2 ideologically face off without the game show host candidates would  be an interesting  debate between classic conservatism and maga.

Classic conservatism? She's a Bush era neocon with reformed abortion stances. Not even close to a classic conservative.

[auburnatl1 5,014]

1 minute ago, KansasTiger said:

Classic conservatism? She's a Bush era neocon with reformed abortion stances. Not even close to a classic conservative.

Ah, that pesky neocon brand you embrace. Question: who do you think Reagan would ideologically align with more - Haley/christie or Trump/desantis/vivek?  I mean, seriously.  The former are small gov conservatives, the later are bud light populists.  Trump was a dem 90% of this life. He’s not a conservative.

[KansasTiger 3,254]

Just now, auburnatl1 said:

Ah, that pesky neocon brand you embrace. Question: who do you think Reagan would ideologically align with more - Haley/christie or Trump/desantis/vivek?  I mean, seriously.  The former are small gov conservatives, the later are bud light populists.  Trump was a dem 90% of this life. He’s not a conservative.

I've never made the argument that Trump or Vivek were classic conservatives. But Vivek is the closest to a real conservative on that list. He's the only one (including Trump) that would actually make the govt smaller.

People use populist like some bad tagline. Like you accuse me of using 'neocon' (I simply use it to describe pro-war new age 'conservatives'). But by definition it's what the people want, instead of a party's unpopular ideology shoved down their constituent's throat. I'm ok with that. I'm a populist.

[auburnatl1 5,014]

2 minutes ago, KansasTiger said:

I've never made the argument that Trump or Vivek were classic conservatives. But Vivek is the closest to a real conservative on that list. He's the only one (including Trump) that would actually make the govt smaller.

People use populist like some bad tagline. Like you accuse me of using 'neocon' (I simply use it to describe pro-war new age 'conservatives'). But by definition it's what the people want, instead of a party's unpopular ideology shoved down their constituent's throat. I'm ok with that. I'm a populist.

I thought you were a libertarian? In any case, yes everyone has a right to vote for whomever they want. Democracy is messy. My issue is that instead of populists creating an another party - which is fine - they kidnapped the Republican Party and rebranded themselves somehow as conservatives.  Same with progressives/socialists kidnapping the dem party (which historically was a more moderate labor oriented party).  There should be 4 parties. Which would be cleaner, more accurate, and healthy.  Instead we have clown show that will produce 2 screwed up 80 yr old guys that 60% of the country cannot stand.    

Even though you don’t like Haley, she polls higher than any other candidate in a national election. By far…. And won’t be an option . 

[KansasTiger 3,254]

1 minute ago, auburnatl1 said:

I thought you were a libertarian? In any case, yes everyone has a right to vote for whomever they want. Democracy is messy. My issue is that instead of populists creating an another party - which is fine - they kidnapped the Republican Party and rebranded themselves somehow as conservatives.  Same with progressives/socialists kidnapping the dem party (which historically was a more moderate labor oriented party).  There should be 4 parties. Which would be cleaner, more accurate, and healthy.  Instead we have clown show that will produce 2 screwed up 80 yr old guys that 60% of the country cannot stand.    

Even though you don’t like Haley, she polls higher than any other candidate in a national election. By far…. And won’t be an option . 

I'm a mix of a few ideas that don't fit into an easily describable box. It's a mix of libertarian, conservative, even a few liberal idea believe it or not. Or what used to be liberal ideas.

I'm actually ok with 80% of what you said. There should be 4+ parties in this country. But it's the dems and Republicans fault why that hasn't happened. They don't want that, cause they'd lose overall power. They created a system where if you want to have a real shot at president, you either have to join one of the two parties and conform to their ideology or hijack the party (wasnt realistic until Trump). So that's what's happening. I dont feel sorry for the power hungry bastards at all.

So Haley not being an option is the GOP's fault. Not MAGA, for taking the only viable path to the presidency the parties created. Unless you and the GOP want MAGA to form its own party and take 55% of the base with it and watch how neither side win an election again.

 

[auburnatl1 5,014]

11 minutes ago, KansasTiger said:

I'm a mix of a few ideas that don't fit into an easily describable box. It's a mix of libertarian, conservative, even a few liberal idea believe it or not. Or what used to be liberal ideas.

I'm actually ok with 80% of what you said. There should be 4+ parties in this country. But it's the dems and Republicans fault why that hasn't happened. They don't want that, cause they'd lose overall power. They created a system where if you want to have a real shot at president, you either have to join one of the two parties and conform to their ideology or hijack the party (wasnt realistic until Trump). So that's what's happening. I dont feel sorry for the power hungry bastards at all.

So Haley not being an option is the GOP's fault. Not MAGA, for taking the only viable path to the presidency the parties created. Unless you and the GOP want MAGA to form its own party and take 55% of the base with it and watch how neither side win an election again.

 

50% of the country are now independents (twice as large than when Perot ran).   Which for the most part are moderates that bailed on their historic parties because they didn’t recognize them anymore.  If the country is actually confronted with trump v Biden, it should be interesting how the independents react and if a formidable 3rd option rises.  I  know you like Kennedy. I would prefer manchin or Haley. We’ll see.

[KansasTiger 3,254]

7 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

50% of the country are now independents (twice as large than when Perot ran).   Which for the most part are moderates that bailed on their historic parties because they didn’t recognize them anymore.  If the country is actually confronted with trump v Biden, it should be interesting how the independents react and if a formidable 3rd option rises.  I  know you like Kennedy. I would prefer manchin or Haley. We’ll see.

Is it that big? How are they defining independent? I'd be curious if I would be an independent by their calculation. Cause you hear independent and think 'in the middle somewhere'. But I'm guessing a large portion of those independents are more unaffiliated instead of moderate. Cause I bailed on the party too, but I've never been accused of being a moderate anything.

If Haley ran third party, she'd be breaking the pledge she signed to support the GOP nominee. Not that it means a damn thing, but doesn't seem like a good look.

Edited December 13, 2023 by KansasTiger

[AU9377 5,026]

2 hours ago, KansasTiger said:

She was gaining some ground and passing Desantis, but we'll see if it sticks. I'm curious to see how her debate performance might affect that. Vivek might be crude and brash at times, but his takedown of her as an uncaring corrupt neocon who just wants war doesn't even know the name of the regions she wants to send troops/money/arms to I thought was somewhat effective. It was risky. All she needed to do was lean in to the mic and name a few Eastern Ukrainian regions and Vivek's political campaign would have been over. But she didn't know any. In fact, she looked like a deer in the headlights during that whole situation, afraid to say anything. I'm curious to see how the polls reflect how that all played out.

Today's polls have her dipping down below Desantis again, but I don't know if I put much stock in that just yet. I've never trusted economist/YouGov or NPR as my preferred polls of choice.

Vivek looks like a circus clown when he attempts to discuss serious topics.  I don't believe any candidate will overtake Trump in the primaries.  He has a cult following that refuses to listen to anyone, including those that worked closely with Trump when he was in office.  Half of them still believe the proven lie that the 2020 election was stolen.  Trump is right about one thing, repeat something enough times and whether it is actually true or not doesn't matter.

[auburnatl1 5,014]

1 hour ago, AU9377 said:

Vivek looks like a circus clown when he attempts to discuss serious topics.  I don't believe any candidate will overtake Trump in the primaries.  He has a cult following that refuses to listen to anyone, including those that worked closely with Trump when he was in office.  Half of them still believe the proven lie that the 2020 election was stolen.  Trump is right about one thing, repeat something enough times and whether it is actually true or not doesn't matter.

It’s a fair point about Haley.  The question is in this new definition of Republican - is she one?  Would Reagan have a place in the party today?   There’s a reason registered republicans and democrats are shrinking and most have fled to independent.

 

[AUDub 11,178]

4 hours ago, KansasTiger said:

So not much different than his 2020 campaign...

Biden’s campaign is sitting on a 200m war chest, biding their time until they know who best to aim it at.

The only people paying attention or ascribing much significance to all the noise around polling at the moment are political junkies. 

[KansasTiger 3,254]

10 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Biden’s campaign is sitting on a 200m war chest, biding their time until they know who best to aim it at.

The only people paying attention or ascribing much significance to all the noise around polling at the moment are political junkies. 

I understand. So polling and approval ratings mean nothing 11 months out of an election, just how much money you have? Gotcha.

[AUDub 11,178]

Just now, KansasTiger said:

I understand. So polling and approval ratings mean nothing 11 months out of an election, just how much money you have? Gotcha.

Approval rating really hasn’t meant anything since Obama, and polling is historically inaccurate AF at this point in time before elections.

Again, the Biden campaign is playing it slow for the time being. They’re primed and they’ll start blitzing when the time comes.

[KansasTiger 3,254]

6 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Approval rating really hasn’t meant anything since Obama, and polling is historically inaccurate AF at this point in time before elections.

Again, the Biden campaign is playing it slow for the time being. They’re primed and they’ll start blitzing when the time comes.

That's some good copium

[AUDub 11,178]

3 minutes ago, KansasTiger said:

That's some good copium

Whatever you gotta do to convince yourself Haley actually has 17 points on Biden lol.

[KansasTiger 3,254]

7 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Whatever you gotta do to convince yourself Haley actually has 17 points on Biden lol.

Oh I don't believe that she does. Or at least not in anyway that matters in the scheme of things. Read the thread next time before spouting liberal nonsense.

Edited December 13, 2023 by KansasTiger