Trump argues he can murder political opponents with immunity

[TexasTiger 12,922]

1 hour ago, Cardin Drake said:

So, who did order the hit on Epstein?

I did. Don’t piss me off.

[CoffeeTiger 5,111]

10 hours ago, Cardin Drake said:

So, who did order the hit on Epstein?

Donald Trump. 

He was on the list. photographed with Epstein and Maxwell dozens of times. Once said him and Epstein were similar in that they liked them (girls) 'young', wished Maxwell 'the best' when she was on trial for human trafficking, and was US president when Epstein was killed in a government facility.

 

pretty obvious isnt it? 

 

 

[Cardin Drake 1,829]

Trump liked them young but legal.  He threw Epstein out of Mar-A-Largo for allegedly chasing a member's underage daughter, and had nothing to do with him after that.  The investigation into Epstein's death was more of a coverup than an investigation, making many suspicious that the DOJ was involved though.

[TexasTiger 12,922]

13 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Exactly. Now you are getting it. It was just about a foregone conclusion that "trump = somebody gonna die."

With no evidence and nothing more than a bunch of hyperbolic bad joke-telling by America's Favorite Blowhard.

Gonna try this one more time…

No one has accused Trump of murder or plotting murder. (The pardoned Roger Stone, on the hand, is on tape, but that’s another issue.)

The question before the court is what is the law? What should the law be? What are the ramifications of where we set the line? Do we state, “the law is there is no law when it comes to the President’s actions.” Trump’s lawyer argued exactly that. That’s the issue.

[Leftfield 2,604]

27 minutes ago, Cardin Drake said:

Trump liked them young but legal.  He threw Epstein out of Mar-A-Largo for allegedly chasing a member's underage daughter, and had nothing to do with him after that.  The investigation into Epstein's death was more of a coverup than an investigation, making many suspicious that the DOJ was involved though.

[CoffeeTiger 5,111]

1 hour ago, Cardin Drake said:

Trump liked them young but legal. 

I don't think Trump cared much what age they were as long as they were young and mailable. 

There's plenty of pictures of Trump groping his young teen daughters while they sat on his lap, he's talked multiple times about wanting to date and "be with" Ivanka if only she wasn't his daughter

Trump also ran a teen beauty pageant, and it's pretty common knowledge that Trump liked to sneak into the teen girls dressing rooms while they were undressing and getting ready for the shows. 

Trump distancing himself from Epstein sounds more like he knew big 'E' was getting reckless and needed to separate himself from the man and their mutual activities. 

 

1 hour ago, Cardin Drake said:

He threw Epstein out of Mar-A-Largo for allegedly chasing a member's underage daughter, and had nothing to do with him after that.  The investigation into Epstein's death was more of a coverup than an investigation, making many suspicious that the DOJ was involved though.

 

 

Yeah, Trumps DOJ covered it up. Obviously, Trump knew that he could have plausible deniability by distancing himself from Epstein once he got caught in Florida.

 

Come today when the whole thing was coming back out into the open again, Trump just needed to get Epstein out of the way before he spilled the beans. 

 

 

Trump had as much means, motive, and ability to get rid of Epstein as anyone in the world, yet he's the one person all you people don't seem to think could have been involved. 

 

Weird. 🤔

 

 

 

 

Edited January 11 by CoffeeTiger

[DKW 86 7,425]

On 1/10/2024 at 9:45 PM, TexasTiger said:

Example of why Trump succeeds and we’re screwed as a country. His defenders (even those who claim not to like him) are easily duped, distracted and misled and too angry to focus on anything they don’t immediately track or comprehend. They just dig in their heels and get angrier.

I honestly do comprehend that many on this board are so dumb they fall for a nickel of hyperbole. 

[DKW 86 7,425]

On 1/11/2024 at 9:30 AM, TexasTiger said:

Gonna try this one more time…

No one has accused Trump of murder or plotting murder. (The pardoned Roger Stone, on the hand, is on tape, but that’s another issue.)

The question before the court is what is the law? What should the law be? What are the ramifications of where we set the line? Do we state, “the law is there is no law when it comes to the President’s actions.” Trump’s lawyer argued exactly that. That’s the issue.

Simple. The law applies after it happens. Otherwise you are trying to be the thought police. 

[TexasTiger 12,922]

5 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Simple. The law applies after it happens. Otherwise you are trying to be the thought police. 

Doesn’t apply here. That’s an argument against hate crime laws. This is a legal question of how broad presidential immunity extends. Trump’s own attorney is saying it extends this far. The question came from the judge to clarify, “are you saying it extends this far?” Simple question- do you think the President can order a seal team to kill his opponents and escape criminal prosecution— yes, or no?

[homersapien 11,382]

On 1/11/2024 at 10:17 AM, CoffeeTiger said:

Donald Trump. 

He was on the list. photographed with Epstein and Maxwell dozens of times. Once said him and Epstein were similar in that they liked them (girls) 'young', wished Maxwell 'the best' when she was on trial for human trafficking, and was US president when Epstein was killed in a government facility.

pretty obvious isnt it? 

 

 

Hoisted by his own petard.

[DKW 86 7,425]

4 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Doesn’t apply here. That’s an argument against hate crime laws. This is a legal question of how broad presidential immunity extends. Trump’s own attorney is saying it extends this far. The question came from the judge to clarify, “are you saying it extends this far?” Simple question- do you think the President can order a seal team to kill his opponents and escape criminal prosecution— yes, or no?

And that would be 100% opinion. Not fact.

[Leftfield 2,604]

2 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

And that would be 100% opinion. Not fact.

What is? The lawyer/Trump's answer, or whatever you would answer?

[DKW 86 7,425]

22 hours ago, Leftfield said:

What is? The lawyer/Trump's answer, or whatever you would answer?

A courtroom must have FACTS. PROOF. Concrete Evidence. Opinion will not sway a good judge. 

Anyone anywhere can make an allegation that "Someone is going to kill someone else." In a courtroom, that means nothing if it isn't corroborated with a contract, multiple witnesses, an audio recording, etc. We are not in 5th grade anymore. We are adults in a courtroom and slinging BS allegations without PROOF means less than nothing. 

[DKW 86 7,425]

On 1/13/2024 at 8:16 AM, TexasTiger said:

Doesn’t apply here. That’s an argument against hate crime laws. This is a legal question of how broad presidential immunity extends. Trump’s own attorney is saying it extends this far. The question came from the judge to clarify, “are you saying it extends this far?” Simple question- do you think the President can order a seal team to kill his opponents and escape criminal prosecution— yes, or no?

The problem here is we have complete utter morons on this forum that can even hallucinate that:

1) a Seal Team Member would even think about committing an illegal order. 
2) That the rest of America, the Military, the Judicial Branch, would ever let him get away with it. 

The amount of ******* stupid on this forum is breathtaking, and a colossal waste of time. 

[TexasTiger 12,922]

46 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

The problem here is we have complete utter morons on this forum that can even hallucinate that:

1) a Seal Team Member would even think about committing an illegal order. 
2) That the rest of America, the Military, the Judicial Branch, would ever let him get away with it. 

The amount of ******* stupid on this forum is breathtaking, and a colossal waste of time. 

That’s not at all the point.

But after Trump was elected folks were saying the Republicans in Congress would keep him in check. Now, he owns them and most of the party are absolute sycophants who’ll deny him nothing. 
 

But let’s play out your scenario. Trump gives the order. It’s not carried out because the seal team won’t do it. Has Trump committed a crime by ordering it?

[auburnatl1 4,940]

50 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

The problem here is we have complete utter morons on this forum that can even hallucinate that:

1) a Seal Team Member would even think about committing an illegal order. 
2) That the rest of America, the Military, the Judicial Branch, would ever let him get away with it. 

The amount of ******* stupid on this forum is breathtaking, and a colossal waste of time. 

I agree that in reality trump couldn’t have someone John Wick’d.  And that there is Trump hysteria sometimes.  The problem is he says these things. All the time.   Ie A friend of says he slept with another friends wife.  Repeats it though he can see it upsets his friend. Then says he was  “just kidding”. “Relax”.  “Over reacting”. The problem is 1) he has absolutely no ability to see the creepy problem with the joke 2) what’s he really thinking about his wife?

How trump gets the majority of evangelical support hurts my head. It’s a bad look.

[TexasTiger 12,922]

1 minute ago, auburnatl1 said:

I agree that in reality trump couldn’t have someone John Wick’d.  And that there is Trump hysteria sometimes.  The problem is he says these things. All the time.   Ie A friend of says he slept with another friends wife.  Repeats it though he can see it upsets his friend. Then says he was  “just kidding”. “Relax”.  “Over reacting”. The problem is 1) he has absolutely no ability to see the creepy problem with the joke 2) what’s he really thinking about his wife?

How trump gets the majority of evangelical support hurts my head. It’s a bad look.

You sound as if you can’t believe Trump would do these things if he could get away with- he’s just joking for a reaction. Still think he has an actual moral compass, he’s just crude?

[auburnatl1 4,940]

Just now, TexasTiger said:

You sound as if you can’t believe Trump would do these things if he could get away with- he’s just joking for a reaction. Still think he has an actual moral compass, he’s just crude?

I believe Trump has no morals but he understands laws and how far lawyers can save him.  Again, Trump thinks like a mafia boss - has to appear tough and ruthless, has no ethical  boundaries, but doesnt want to go to jail. 

[Leftfield 2,604]

55 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

A courtroom must have FACTS. PROOF. Concrete Evidence. Opinion will not sway a good judge. 

Anyone anywhere can make an allegation that "Someone is going to kill someone else." In a courtroom, that means nothing if it isn't corroborated with a contract, multiple witnesses, an audio recording, etc. We are not in 5th grade anymore. We are adults in a courtroom and slinging BS allegations without PROOF means less than nothing. 

I simply don't understand what you're not seeing here. Again, nobody is saying he will do it. Nobody is even saying it would be easy or likely to happen even if he did decide to do it. The point is, if someone found a way to do it, whether it be Trump or anyone else down the line, their argument is that that person could not be prosecuted for it unless they were impeached first. The point of the hypothetical was to establish that what Trump's lawyer was arguing was an absolute, and could entail any horrible crimes a person could think of, regardless of how realistic it would be to carry them out. Honestly, before January 6, how realistic would you have thought it would be for Trump to convince enough people to go along with his schemes to steal the election?

All of what you said, in regards to facts in the court room, mean nothing if Trump and his lawyer successfully argue that he had immunity, because the Senate acquitted him. He would walk away from everything he did. Is that what you think should happen?

[AU9377 4,950]

1 hour ago, DKW 86 said:

The problem here is we have complete utter morons on this forum that can even hallucinate that:

1) a Seal Team Member would even think about committing an illegal order. 
2) That the rest of America, the Military, the Judicial Branch, would ever let him get away with it. 

The amount of ******* stupid on this forum is breathtaking, and a colossal waste of time. 

People can be convinced of the justification for a lot of actions that seem incomprehensible to the average person.  Congress already allowed the man to get away with abusing his office to the scale never seen before.  Nixon's actions weren't anywhere near as serious as Trump's when it comes to abusing the powers of his office.

[Leftfield 2,604]

3 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

I believe Trump has no morals but he understands laws and how far lawyers can save him.  Again, Trump thinks like a mafia boss - has to appear tough and ruthless, has no ethical  boundaries, but doesnt want to go to jail. 

This is what's chilling about his immunity argument: the possiblity, and in my opinion likelihood, that Trump is a sociopath. There is nothing a sociopath wouldn't do if they though they could get away with it.

As you said, Trump floats crazy statements all the time. Some people say it's just stream of consciousness type stuff ("That's just Trump being Trump. He doesn't actually mean it, idiot"), but I believe it to be deliberate. He slowly, methodically plants incrementally more extreme ideas and scenarios to condition people into expecting, then accepting, then defending, and even performing, horrible and even criminal behavior. 

 

[I_M4_AU 7,850]

1 minute ago, Leftfield said:

the possiblity, and in my opinion likelihood, that Trump is a sociopath. There is nothing a sociopath wouldn't do if they though they could get away with it.

This right here is what DKW is talking about.  You just hope Trump is a sociopath with no real justification.

[TexasTiger 12,922]

27 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

I believe Trump has no morals but he understands laws and how far lawyers can save him.  Again, Trump thinks like a mafia boss - has to appear tough and ruthless, has no ethical  boundaries, but doesnt want to go to jail. 

He’s subject to believe what sycophants tell him he can get away with. You suggest someone who knows where the line in and brilliantly toes it. 

[Leftfield 2,604]

1 minute ago, I_M4_AU said:

This right here is what DKW is talking about.  You just hope Trump is a sociopath with no real justification.

Oh, right....I hope Trump is a sociopath. Absolutely, I want a human being, particularly someone with so much influence, to be completely devoid of concern for anyone else. 

What a brilliant thing to say.

No, I_M, it's just my opinion based on his behavior and the way he's lived his life. Can you divorce yourself of your disdain for anything Democrat for one second and honestly say the man shows any concern for anyone else? 

[Leftfield 2,604]

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2024/01/14/george-conway-trump-sammy-the-bull-veiled-threat-judges-sot-acostnr.cnn