TexasTiger 12,897 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 What are our interests in following in any direction the Israeli government leads us? https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-hamas-west-bank-war-f85997a95d5579159ffe83d2c0cb988e As this conflict increasingly spins out of control, what is the US role and why? I understand folks saying Israel needs to determine how to defend itself, but why do we need to essentially go along with whatever? I’m not sure we have a strong ally anywhere in the Middle East. We have one country we’re sworn to support, pretty much regardless of what it does. Why? Because it’s a nominal democracy? Their government rivals ours for dysfunction. https://www.crisisgroup.org/middle-east-north-africa/iran-israel-shadow-war-risks-spinning-out-control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_M4_AU 7,848 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 (edited) One man’s opinion: Biden has been playing both sides of this one. Financing both sides and fence sitting has got up to where we are. He even openly suggests, through Schumer, to get rid of a duly elected PM of Irael. Now that Iran is threatening Israel’s existence, Biden tries to present a strong defense of Israel through the US military. He has had no official stance and blows with the wind on this issue. Iran and the whole ME knows it. He has painted himself into a corner. As to why should be back Israel as a country; they are the only democracy in the ME and one of the few that has separated religion and governance similar to the US. Now, because they are defending themselves, America gets weak kneed. An ally is an ally and you back their play, you may disagree with it and that is alright, but publically you back it. This administration has not done that. Edited April 13 by I_M4_AU 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 12,897 Posted April 13 Author Share Posted April 13 1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said: One man’s opinion: Biden has been playing both sides of this one. Financing both sides and fence sitting has got up to where we are. He even openly suggests, through Schumer, to get rid of a duly elected PM of Irael. Now that Iran is threatening Israel’s existence, Biden tries to present a strong defense of Israel through the US military. He has had no official stance and blows with the wind on this issue. Iran and the whole ME knows it. He has painted himself into a corner. As to why should be back Israel as a country; they are the only democracy in the ME and one of the few that has separated religion and governance similar to the US. Now, because they are defending themselves, America gets weak kneed. An ally is an ally and you back their play, you may disagree with it and that is alright, but publically you back it. This administration has not done that. Have they separated religion from governance? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Law:_Israel_as_the_Nation-State_of_the_Jewish_People https://www.loc.gov/item/global-legal-monitor/2021-07-27/israel-supreme-court-affirms-constitutionality-of-basic-law-israel-nation-state-of-the-jewish-people/ https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-05-29/ty-article/why-so-few-palestinians-from-jerusalem-have-israeli-citizenship/00000181-0c46-d090-abe1-ed7fefc20000 Does being an ally really mean we send our tax dollars no matter what you do? We defend everything you do, even if it leads to a broader disruption that harms our interests? Is this required? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_M4_AU 7,848 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 1 hour ago, TexasTiger said: Have they separated religion from governance? Compared to other governments in the region, yes they have. Arabs are represented in the Knesset by free election. To my knowledge Israel has not put Palestinians in concentration camps after October 7th., but I am sure there is hostility amoung the population. 2 hours ago, TexasTiger said: Does being an ally really mean we send our tax dollars no matter what you do? We defend everything you do, even if it leads to a broader disruption that harms our interests? Is this required? We send our tax dollars to Ukraine, Iran and Gaza. Two of those countries chant *Death to America* and are not considered allies. The thing with Israel being an ally; you don’t give up on them during a time of crisis, you let the crisis resolve itself and then determine if you still want to carry on the relationship. Why would the U.S. abandon the relationship now? What signal would that send to our other allies? Speaking of which; 34 years after the U.S. saved Kuwait from Suddam Hussein Kuwait warns against using our airbases there to strike Iran and use their airspace. Gulf monarchies are urging the US not to use American military bases on their territories to strike in response to any potential Iranian attack on Israel, sources told Middle East Eye. The US's Gulf allies are working overtime to shut down avenues that could link them to a US reprisal against Tehran or its proxies from bases inside their kingdoms, according to a senior US official who spoke with MEE on condition of anonymity. As tensions flare, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Oman and Kuwait have raised questions about the intricate details of basing agreements that permit tens of thousands of US troops to be stationed across the oil-rich peninsula. They are also moving to prevent US warplanes from flying over their airspace in the event the US conducts a retaliatory strike on Iran. https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/exclusive-gulf-states-warn-us-not-launch-strikes-iran-territory-airspace You find out who your friends are during times like these. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_M4_AU 7,848 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Speaking of which; things must be getting serious. President Joe Biden cut short a weekend trip to his Delaware beach home to return to the White House where he will monitor events in the Middle East. The White House announced Saturday that Biden would be leaving Rehoboth Beach a day earlier than planned in order to consult with his national security team. https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/13/biden-cuts-trip-middle-east-00152111 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 12,897 Posted April 13 Author Share Posted April 13 13 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said: We send our tax dollars to Ukraine, Iran and Gaza Gotta a link on our tax dollars going to Iran? 13 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said: Compared to other governments in the region, yes they have. They’re better than the worst, yes. Not necessarily better than Egypt. https://www.newarab.com/news/first-coptic-christian-named-egypts-supreme-court-chief?amp 17 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said: you let the crisis resolve itself Crises rarely resolve themselves, but often get escalated from choices made. 18 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said: Gulf monarchies are urging the US not to use American military bases on their territories to strike in response to any potential Iranian attack on Israel, sources told Middle East Eye. Any country allowing our military is an ally, right? Why would we ignore their concerns about actions that might foment unrest for them? 20 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said: As tensions flare, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Oman and Kuwait have raised questions about the intricate details of basing agreements that permit tens of thousands of US troops to be stationed across the oil-rich peninsula. Yes, Israel’s manner of conducting this operation is negatively impacting OUR interests. 21 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said: You find out who your friends are during times like these. Israel’s losing friends left & right. Maybe there’s a reason. But this is a foolish way to look at allies for countries. Throughout history allegiances change as interests change. It’s stupid for a country to sacrifice its key interests for the whims of another country. And whether Schumer could have handled telling the truth more diplomatically, Bibi has engaged in partisan politics in America in recent years, damaging his country’s relationship with its most important ally for purely selfish reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_M4_AU 7,848 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 25 minutes ago, TexasTiger said: Gotta a link on our tax dollars going to Iran? You’re right, it was $6 billion of frozen assets for a hostage deal, I wonder which is worse? 27 minutes ago, TexasTiger said: Crises rarely resolve themselves, but often get escalated from choices made. I don’t recall Biden objecting to the embassy attack, but he might have. I don’t agree with Israel taking out grandchildren of his rival. Cooler head will prevail and then we can re-evaluate. 35 minutes ago, TexasTiger said: Any country allowing our military is an ally, right? Why would we ignore their concerns about actions that might foment unrest for them? Well, Germany is and has been for a long time, so is Italy. We staged troops in Italy during the Gulf War. I think the allies you are talking about are sending Biden a message that he shouldn’t count on their help. I really don’t expect Biden to do much of anything. 38 minutes ago, TexasTiger said: Yes, Israel’s manner of conducting this operation is negatively impacting OUR interests. Do you mean our interest in their oil? If only our strategic oil reserves where full and we were energy indepentent. Oh, well. 40 minutes ago, TexasTiger said: It’s stupid for a country to sacrifice its key interests for the whims of another country. Whims, 1200 of their citizens were brutally attacked, murdered, burnt, raped and their dead bodies were paraded around Gaza so people could kick and spit on them. We just spent 20 years in Afghanistan for something similar. 45 minutes ago, TexasTiger said: And whether Schumer could have handled telling the truth more diplomatically, Bibi has engaged in partisan politics in America in recent years, damaging his country’s relationship with its most important ally for purely selfish reasons. Debatable on both ends of this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,379 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Netanyahu has been a disaster for Israel. I hope we don't make the same mistake with Trump. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_M4_AU 7,848 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 And it begins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 12,897 Posted April 13 Author Share Posted April 13 1 minute ago, I_M4_AU said: And it begins. This began when Israel attacked an embassy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 12,897 Posted April 13 Author Share Posted April 13 55 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said: Do you mean our interest in their oil? If only our strategic oil reserves where full and we were energy indepentent. Oh, well. When was that the case? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_M4_AU 7,848 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Just now, TexasTiger said: This began when Israel attacked an embassy. It was a building next to the embassy, but that doesn’t matter to the Iranians. They are the 5th grade bully of the ME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 12,897 Posted April 13 Author Share Posted April 13 3 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said: It was a building next to the embassy, but that doesn’t matter to the Iranians. They are the 5th grade bully of the ME Iran is awful. But this is a response. Israel doesn’t mind provoking a broader war and drawing us into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_M4_AU 7,848 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 5 minutes ago, TexasTiger said: Iran is awful. But this is a response. Israel doesn’t mind provoking a broader war and drawing us into it. This is the mindset of Israel: On June 22 1982, Joe Biden was a Senator from Delaware and confronted then Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin during his Senate Foreign Relations committee testimony, threatening to cut off aid to Israel. Begin forcefully responded, “Don’t threaten us with cutting off your aid. It will not work. I am not a Jew with trembling knees. I am a proud Jew with 3,700 years of civilized history. Nobody came to our aid when we were dying in the gas chambers and ovens. Nobody came to our aid when we were striving to create our country. We paid for it. We fought for it. We died for it. We will stand by our principles. We will defend them. And, when necessary, we will die for them again, with or without your aid.” Senator Biden reportedly banged on the table with his fist, and Begin retorted, “This desk is designed for writing, not for fists. Don’t threaten us with slashing aid. Do you think that because the US lends us money it is entitled to impose on us what we must do? We are grateful for the assistance we have received, but we are not to be threatened. I am a proud Jew. Three thousand years of culture are behind me, and you will not frighten me with threats. Take note: we do not want a single soldier of yours to die for us.” https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/369403 It will be up to Biden if he gets us into a war. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_M4_AU 7,848 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 A true statement: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 12,897 Posted April 13 Author Share Posted April 13 3 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said: A true statement: You don’t know what “true” means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_M4_AU 7,848 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 12,897 Posted April 13 Author Share Posted April 13 3 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said: How did you want him to answer? What do you want him to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_M4_AU 7,848 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 5 minutes ago, TexasTiger said: How did you want him to answer? What do you want him to do? He should just sit tight and see how Israel handles their business. He is so desparate to show America he is a tough guy he comes up with this *Don’t* for the second time and Iran, for the second time, ignores it. Israel isn’t begging for assistance, don’t give it to them unless they ask. Let Israel have the opportunity to do the right thing. He has screwed this thing up 9 ways to Sunday. No one is afraid of this man or respects him on the foreign policy front. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_M4_AU 7,848 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 I would hope that Biden is in close contact with Netanyahu throughout this mess to coordinate and help with defenses that Netanyahu may need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,149 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 7 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said: I would hope that Biden is in close contact with Netanyahu throughout this mess to coordinate and help with defenses that Netanyahu may need. The USA will be farming XP on these drones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,149 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Here’s a question IM. What should we do if Israel declares war on Iran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_M4_AU 7,848 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 6 minutes ago, AUDub said: Here’s a question IM. What should we do if Israel declares war on Iran. Is attacking Israel with drones an act of war? Where do we stand now. Are we in a war? I would expect we would do the same or Israel that we have done for Ukraine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,149 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 (edited) 2 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said: Is attacking Israel with drones an act of war? Where do we stand now. Are we in a war? I would expect we would do the same or Israel that we have done for Ukraine. We’re already doing that. Hell we provide more defensive largesse to Israel than we ever have Ukraine. Edited April 13 by AUDub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,149 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 I don’t know what work you live in but FFS Israel has F35s doing sorties, patriot batteries in the iron dome. They’re on the cutting edge lol. Meanwhile we’re debating F16s for Ukraine lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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