Somebody explain liberalism today

[AuCivilEng1 11,012]

3 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

And if you thought I disputed one word of that, you were simply mistaken.

I want a raised minimum wage, M4A, free college for 2 years and free trade school. Lets start there.

I support all the things that the LGB Community has gotten over the years. Did you know that the strongest marriages statistically are MM?

I want Free Speech for all. The very idea that one person in America could even publicly state that they supported " The Ministry of Truth" just shows us how far we have failed.

I don't want America from 10-20-30-40-50 years ago. I would like to see something like Gene Roddenberry's vision for us going forward. At the same time, I clearly see, as do many LGB people that some in the Trans Community have gone completely off their rockers. 

So I take it you’re a Bernie guy, right? Or at least something close to that. 
 

Why do you think Bernie has run as a Democrat twice now? Seems like he’d run with the Republicans if they were the working man’s party. Also, seems like he would choose the party that he thought brought him the most voters aligned with his ideals. 
 

Don’t mistake me saying the Democrats are the more aligned party. They’re still not close to where you or I want them to be. But they are closer than the Republicans. Always have been, always will be. 
 

What I see is a screwed up voter base situation. The Democrats are more aligned with the working class and poor on policy, but they also embrace “woke” ideals and social equality far more than the GOP. So poor and working class people vote GOP, even though it’s against their best interests economically. 
 

Bernie and AOC would do the most policy wise for the working man, but they just can’t bring themselves to vote for north eastern liberals, because they aren’t racist.

Edited April 14 by AuCivilEng1

[PUB78 1,358]

Liberalism = Insanity 

[Mims44 1,872]

On 4/13/2024 at 12:16 PM, auburnatl1 said:

It’s easy to mock maga. I do it daily. But (per Bill Maher) what about Dems? Historically, liberalism existed to defend and elevate the less educated and  blue collar. What is today … Maga. So what is liberalism today, what is its base, and who does it serve?  If democrats profess to help “the little guy” and the little guy now hates you, … ummm.  Or does it now only serve racial and gender minorities and the college educated who obsess about them?

Imo neither party  today have much to say about corporations, taxes, the budget, education, economic classes, ect. I guess the financial stuff is now too complicated.  Just immigration, race,  and transgender. And neither have a coherent position on foreign policy ,other than magas seems to be to unconditionally defend the holy land, screw anyone  else. 

Yep, so there’s  maga - generally less  educated white folks who don’t want things to change. Got it. But is it any harder to figures out Dems? They’re simply everybody else.

 What happened to liberalism?

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/05/do-the-woke-betray-the-lefts-true-principles.html

 

I can explain it in an image...

 

 

 

[AU9377 4,967]

On 4/13/2024 at 12:16 PM, auburnatl1 said:

It’s easy to mock maga. I do it daily. But (per Bill Maher) what about Dems? Historically, liberalism existed to defend and elevate the less educated and  blue collar. What is today … Maga. So what is liberalism today, what is its base, and who does it serve?  If democrats profess to help “the little guy” and the little guy now hates you, … ummm.  Or does it now only serve racial and gender minorities and the college educated who obsess about them?

Imo neither party  today have much to say about corporations, taxes, the budget, education, economic classes, ect. I guess the financial stuff is now too complicated.  Just immigration, race,  and transgender. And neither have a coherent position on foreign policy ,other than magas seems to be to unconditionally defend the holy land, screw anyone  else. 

Yep, so there’s  maga - generally less  educated white folks who don’t want things to change. Got it. But is it any harder to figures out Dems? They’re simply everybody else.

 What happened to liberalism?

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/05/do-the-woke-betray-the-lefts-true-principles.html

 

I don't think the traditional labels apply.  Today, both sides are much more reactionary in the positions they take.  When one takes a position, the other, as though they are somehow obligated to do so, takes the opposite position, regardless of the merit.

[auburnatl1 4,961]

1 minute ago, AU9377 said:

I don't think the traditional labels apply.  Today, both sides are much more reactionary in the positions they take.  When one takes a position, the other, as though they are somehow obligated to do so, takes the opposite position, regardless of the merit.

Fair.  I don’t believe the terms liberal and conservative apply any more with the focus much more limited - only about social issues.  Inclusion vs traditionalism.  Todays entire political science thinking could be covered over lunch.

[homersapien 11,387]

On 4/14/2024 at 5:49 AM, DKW 86 said:

I read the papers. They are THE PARTY of the Billionaire.

They care nothing about the middle-class and consider them to be the "basket of deplorables." No one in the middle-class supports the DNC, it's why they are lining up behind trump.

Nonsense.

Most of the programs Biden has promoted serve the middle class or the country as a whole.

If reelected, the first thing Trump will do is extend tax cuts for the rich.

[homersapien 11,387]

David just can't drop his narrative of the evil, evil DNC. It's been his narrative ever since they screwed Bernie Sanders.

The very proposition that Trump and the MAGA Republicans are actually worse gives him extreme cognitive dissonance.

 

[auburnatl1 4,961]

10 minutes ago, homersapien said:

David just can't drop his narrative of the evil, evil DNC. It's been his narrative ever since they screwed Bernie Sanders.

The very proposition that Trump and the MAGA Republicans are actually worse gives him extreme cognitive dissonance.

 

Behind the scenes I thought Obama ultimately screwed Bernie.  I remember carville was running amok on every network destroying him. It was definitely an execution

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/2/7/21123518/trump-2020-election-democratic-party-james-carville

[Mims44 1,872]

23 hours ago, Mims44 said:

I can explain it in an image...

 

 

 

@homersapien

You got 300 years on this Earth Homie, you gotta learn to laugh  

[auburnatl1 4,961]

On 4/13/2024 at 3:47 PM, homersapien said:

Liberalism serves everyone.

I agree there something of a communications problem.  IMO, it's largely caused by Trump/Republican demagoguery.

Biden has done far more to help the poor and middle class than Trump did in his four years.

The paradox:  How can liberalism, which by nature requires big funding and government, serve the blue collar class when the blue collar class literally hates government? Drain the swamp sounds like more than just a communication problem.

[TexasTiger 12,949]

11 hours ago, auburnatl1 said:

The paradox:  How can liberalism, which by nature requires big funding and government, serve the blue collar class when the blue collar class literally hates government? Drain the swamp sounds like more than just a communication problem.

Guess they’ve gotta direct their hate somewhere. 

[auburnatl1 4,961]

49 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Guess they’ve gotta direct their hate somewhere. 

It definitely ain’t the FDR New Deal days where gov was seen as labors white knight. The classic debate of conservatives and libs was over the size and role of the fed gov (vs states rights). Maga seems to bypassed that debate with we don’t trust any institution (hell even teachers) - blow em all up.

IMO liberalism HAS to reengage with labor (regardless of race or gender) or its mandate is fuzzy at best.

[TexasTiger 12,949]

16 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

It definitely ain’t the FDR New Deal days where gov was seen as labors white knight. The classic debate of conservatives and libs was over the size and role of the fed gov (vs states rights). Maga seems to bypassed that debate with we don’t trust any institution (hell even teachers) - blow em all up.

IMO liberalism HAS to reengage with labor (regardless of race or gender) or its mandate is fuzzy at best.

The Teamsters may go with Trump. They like a mob boss. But most Dems do court labor and represent their interests.

[DKW 86 7,426]

21 hours ago, homersapien said:

David just can't drop his narrative of the evil, evil DNC. It's been his narrative ever since they screwed Bernie Sanders.

The very proposition that Trump and the MAGA Republicans are actually worse gives him extreme cognitive dissonance.

 

Please, Your Idiocy, never speak for me again. 

[TexasTiger 12,949]

21 hours ago, auburnatl1 said:

It definitely ain’t the FDR New Deal days where gov was seen as labors white knight. The classic debate of conservatives and libs was over the size and role of the fed gov (vs states rights). Maga seems to bypassed that debate with we don’t trust any institution (hell even teachers) - blow em all up.

IMO liberalism HAS to reengage with labor (regardless of race or gender) or its mandate is fuzzy at best.

 

[homersapien 11,387]

19 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Please, Your Idiocy, never speak for me again. 

Only if you reciprocate, oh narrative slinging, would-be iconoclast.

Edited April 17 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,387]

On 4/15/2024 at 6:25 PM, auburnatl1 said:

Behind the scenes I thought Obama ultimately screwed Bernie.  I remember carville was running amok on every network destroying him. It was definitely an execution

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/2/7/21123518/trump-2020-election-democratic-party-james-carville

Yeah, Carville is certainly a pragmatist instead of an idealist - realpolitik.